James Hewitt discusses his Salary when working with GW

[stratigo]

I debated strongly on making this thread cause, like, it'll obviously go bad as these sorts of threads have a tendency to so shortly after a tangentially related "GW business practices" got closed. 

 

But I also can't in good conscious let people consume in ignorance or easily feign ignorance of business issues in the product we all enjoy. Especially considering some of the gross ignorance some people have used in defense of GW's business practices. 

 

James Hewitt reveals how much GW paid him. And it ain't much at all. Further he reveals a culture (one incredibly common in all industries) of discouragement in discussing your salary and seeking better compensation for the work you do. This is the reality of working as a creative in GW. The people who make the games we play are paid wages that barely scate past the poverty line. James Hewitt made, roughly 27 thousand dollars (according to a quick google of the modern exchange between pound and dollar) a year to write hit after hit. 

 

When I say GW creatives should be better compensated and have more say, this is why. And this sort of stuff isn't hard too find out if you are active in any of the same places. Next time you are at a con (hopefully in the not to distant future this will be possible) drinking with GW creative staff at the bar, ask em how much they made. The numbers will shock you. If they aren't too scared to tell you.

 

 

This isn't an enjoinder to stop buying or playing GW games. There's no entertainment to consume that doesn't have these sorts of problems and expecting people to suffer without entertainment to do absolutely negligible damage to companies that all do this sadly doesn't really help. 

But don't consume in ignorance that the money you pay goes into the pockets of the people who make the games you love. It largely does not. Do not make the argument that supporting GW is supporting the designers. It largely is not. I am sick and tired of people apologizing on behalf of GW with the argument that we have to support the people working there. GW doesn't support the people working there.

[JackStreicher]

This is common for anything considered „art“. And the issue is manifold:

-The situation of taking good „art“ for granted.

- The fact that a few (Jeff besos as example) receive all the money people below them achieve through THEIR work, not his. In this case it‘s The upper GW Management 

- The absurdity that companies that could pay good wages simply don‘t due to profit optimization 

etc. 

That‘s also what I mean by when I rant about GW: I don‘t rant about the designers, the social media team and the other awesome people. I rant about the people setting the prices and showing once again what kind of a conservative, hyper-capitalist and anti-social company GW is.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by JackStreicher
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[yukishiro1]

That's mind-boggling if true. Close to actual poverty wages. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Acrozatarim]

Tracks with my experience of working in tabletop games design, yeah.

[yukishiro1]

Yeah, but GW has massive margins and makes profits of over 100 million. They're not operating out of grandma's basement on the edge of bankruptcy like a lot of game companies.

Be interesting to see how much those numbers have changed since 2016 when he was talking about. That's right when GW's growth started taking off. It'd be nice to think they've used that pile of cash to boost salaries to something less embarrassing. Though I wouldn't bet on it. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Beliman]

This society sucks for any creative job.

Want another testimony?

60€ for a marketing campaign that doubled the gains from a Museum (2018/19-2021). 0 new expositions, 0 investment, (museum team reduced from 5 to 1 worker) but the revenue started from a number with 5 digits to a number with 6 digits in half a year with Covid.
Source: Kharadron player from this forum.

 

[HollowHills]

This is appalling. I work for a large international insurer and even our basic contact centre workers are on higher money than that. Plus private Healthcare on top.

You can talk about it being creative etc, but with the profits GW post to their shareholders their staff deserve decent salaries.

[Neverchosen]

Thank you for sharing this, it is nice to take a break from discussing the rules, models and lore to remember and be reminded that it is people's labour that often create the things that we love. Furthermore, since we pay a premium for this particular hobby, it is extremely disheartening to find out that the money is not finding its way into the hands of the people that make it so enjoyable. It is strange to transition from a discussion about my excitement about a plastic dragon to the harsh reality of the labour practices that bring me that dragon. I really enjoy our hobby and have so much fun with it, but these types of corporate decisions make it really difficult to support the company. This is part of the main reason I only shop at local hobby shops as they often have better practices than a massive corporation like Games Workshop. 😥

[Warfiend]

In the gaming industry there is this idea, or excuse (in management) that doing the job creatives do is a reward on its own. Which justifies in their eyes the low wages.

And there are a lot of naive youngsters who are willing to jump in the field for little reward so they can do what they love, working on products they grew up with as kids. Which means anyone is replaceable in the eyes of the executives (many ship has sunk because of this line of thought).

a lot of them burn out and quit after a few years because of the wage and the harsh working conditions.

While I think GW is a much more relaxed place to work in general, I do believe they have the same outlook on the position of creatives and the rewards they deserve for their labor.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Warfiend

[edmc78]

Offensive if true. 

[Lord Veshnakar]

If that's true that's less than GW offered me to be a one-man store manager at one of their newest locations by about 10k. I struggle to believe this is true.

[yukishiro1]

Those are 2016 numbers, so presumably they've come up a little since then...but not a lot.

It would certainly echo many of our suspicions about how much GW does or does not care about the rules side of things if they pay them less than everybody else, though. 

[Jator]

Not directly related to salary, but James Hewitt made a series of interviews where he explained the inner workings of GW. (which sounds like messed up by the higher-ups)

An interesting read, I think: https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-interview-with-james-hewitt-part-1-age-of-sigmar-and-40k/

[PrimeElectrid]

That’s one toxic work environment.

Fault lies entirely with the line manager. 

[sandlemad]

God that's horrible. It's definitely a wider problem, especially in UK companies, but that's just particularly appalling for a company that puts such a shiny gloss on its actions and that makes such a big noise about its wonderful design. This is how it treats the people that actually make the things that the fandom enjoys, while making record profits off their work.

[dicebod]

For those interested, in 2017 the average conversion USD to GBP was 1:1.29. Mr. Hewitt here was making ~$12.40/hr USD. GW should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[sandlemad]

You have a bunch of other former GW staff saying much the same thing, including AoS fan-favourite Josh Reynolds:

 

[Kaleb Daark]

Its not uncommon sadly in most walks of uk life as a creative.

 

As a top tier company it and many like it trade on the fact that its doing you a favour by employing you as the name on your cv carries its own weight.

12k is the sort of money a runner in the media industry would get.  I once talked to kev smith about the artwork he did, and as a staff artist he really didn’t earn very much.

it is what it is sadly, and its not going to change in a hurry.  For non uk residents, currently her in the uk if you do something there is rarely any praise or value in you vs those who’s job it is to tell you what to do.

With respect to the salary silence it generally stems from there rarely being a strong structure in place.  You go in, argue the best deal you can and take the job.  You may find the guy who came in on the same day as you is on a third less just because.  Hence you’re encouraged to not discuss money as you’ll obviously kick off in your next appraisal.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Kaleb Daark

[PrimeElectrid]

Also the linked story about the poor lady on maternity leave is much worse. Together these two stories, though they may be anecdotes, paint a picture of a dysfunctional middle management. Frankly we should be amazed that we get anything out of this company if this is the shambolic way that they manage their staff.

But at least they aren’t Blizzard I guess.

[JustAsPlanned]

Jesus H., that’s appalling. I knew that Geedubs were really stingy in terms of Ip and profits, but I didn’t think they’d be lacking this much in the wages of their own damn employees. 

[stratigo]

1 hour ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

If that's true that's less than GW offered me to be a one-man store manager at one of their newest locations by about 10k. I struggle to believe this is true.

I'm going to assume you struggle because of how bad it is and not because you think Hewitt came out to just lie (in a way that's easily disproven if GW cares even a little bit)

 

He actually mentioned he made less then store managers (since he did that job too and was paid less to be a writer)

 

28 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Also the linked story about the poor lady on maternity leave is much worse. Together these two stories, though they may be anecdotes, paint a picture of a dysfunctional middle management. Frankly we should be amazed that we get anything out of this company if this is the shambolic way that they manage their staff.

But at least they aren’t Blizzard I guess.

I mean.... far as we know. I dread literally any entertainment company coming out with a "Yeah we drive female employees to suicide" story these days. I can only hope wargaming industry isn't the same level of cesspit video game companies are. But the compensation thing here is a big ol' echo of the same nonsense that goes on in video game companies.

 

3 minutes ago, JustAsPlanned said:

Jesus H., that’s appalling. I knew that Geedubs were really stingy in terms of Ip and profits, but I didn’t think they’d be lacking this much in the wages of their own damn employees. 

Makes you worry bout the animators they brought into the fold huh?

[Overread]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Just a very quick thing here to keep this thread respectful (toward each other and others)

By all means be critical, but this is a thread we will keep a close eye on in case it turns anywhere near hostile since this is a topic and snip of information that has the potential. 

 

Again no one has done anything wrong, this is just a reminder. 

[yukishiro1]

3 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Makes you worry bout the animators they brought into the fold huh?

"Here is our final offer: Three boxes of Blood Warriors, a packet of crisps, and a coupon for 15% off the web store with a purchase of £200 or more."

[lagoon83]

2 hours ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

If that's true that's less than GW offered me to be a one-man store manager at one of their newest locations by about 10k. I struggle to believe this is true.

You sure you're not thinking in dollars? 

[yukishiro1]

He said it was less than he made as a store manager 4 years previously, which would have been 2012. Someone being offered 10k more than that to manage a store today in 2021 seems totally in line with what he said re: his compensation in 2016 as a designer and in 2012 as a store manager.