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AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion


dmorley21
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@EnixLHQFirstly a big thank you for your time and effort with the guide. 
 

I got a random five Harridans for free and reading through the guide it seems they have been given some love. So will pick up another five to make the unit playable.

But I notice in the list above you have taken Bladegheist Revenants instead of Harridans. Is that simply that retreat and charge is more useful?

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7 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

I am playing Path to Glory with my brother and I wanted to ask if there is a way to make NH have more punch? (He's playing Emerald Host, I am playing Stromcasts), since his units vaporize way too quickly for how many points they cost.

Simplest way would be to make sure he has a Krulghast Cruciator as one of his hero choices. That 5+ Deathless Spirits will help quite a bit.

Otherwise, NH is about the right hero choices that cover the right troops. Chainrasps are the cheapest way to get a ton of models on the table, and Spirit Torments are probably the best heroes you can take for their buffs and ability to heal and bring back models. Start there and build around it. Emerald Host is great, but don't rely on the bodyguard mechanic for longevity. Instead, capitalize on the extra damage it offers and the curse it brings.

4 hours ago, Souleater said:

@EnixLHQFirstly a big thank you for your time and effort with the guide. 
 

I got a random five Harridans for free and reading through the guide it seems they have been given some love. So will pick up another five to make the unit playable.

But I notice in the list above you have taken Bladegheist Revenants instead of Harridans. Is that simply that retreat and charge is more useful?

I love, love me some Harridans after their warscroll update. But, in terms of raw damage output they still can't compete with Bladegheists on a charge with a Spirit Torment or Chainghasts near by.

In fact, that's the rub of it. If you can bundle the Bladegheists and Chainghasts together in some way, that will make the point investment with them over perform their value. If you can't, then the Harridans will do better. And the way the Death Star build above works, the Bladegheists make up the rear of the Star while the Chainghasts go into reserve. When I'm ready to charge with the bladey-bois I drop the Chainghasts at 9" from the unit I'm going to charge and then charge with the Blades. They'll blender any equal-sized group. And, chances are high that the Bladegheists can retreat over that enemy into another squishier unit in the back line, like a bunch of ranged.

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4 hours ago, lare2 said:

Today's rumour engine is definitely giving out NH vibes (please be a new monster, please be a new monster).

image.jpeg.9a757a5b7671d75f73ae89f9ac62c191.jpeg

While I would love that, I do not think so. To me it appears like it’s the hull of a ship with some kind of naval ram - wasn’t there something with harrowdeep, the new Underworlds Place, being situated close to something called the shadow sea? Ä I can’t help but feel the mighty bone symbolic appears OB-like.

 

though, I hope for a proper NH monster. ;(

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6 hours ago, lare2 said:

Today's rumour engine is definitely giving out NH vibes (please be a new monster, please be a new monster).

image.jpeg.9a757a5b7671d75f73ae89f9ac62c191.jpeg

The filigree does seem Nighthaunt. It appears on some of our things, like Olynder's corset and Kurdoss' throne. It's also similar to Kurdoss' crest and the Black Coach's wheels. But I don't know if that's a NH brand vs GW's take on the detail.

The bones are the first place where I'd think this is something not NH, though. Hexwaiths are the only place where bones are outright a part of the design, where in other models with bones there's also a fair amount of flesh, too. It may end up to be "ghostly" bones, though.

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New to Nighthaunt, tried Chainghasts for the first time tonight and was excited to have two expanded bubbles of Spirit Torment buff...but it hit me as I was deploying them, the two models still need to follow the coherency rules? So I've got these two buff amplifiers who basically have to sit right next to each other on the table?

Am I understanding that right? That's how I played it, and it was a lot less "amazing" than I originally hoped.

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1 hour ago, Lupercal said:

New to Nighthaunt, tried Chainghasts for the first time tonight and was excited to have two expanded bubbles of Spirit Torment buff...but it hit me as I was deploying them, the two models still need to follow the coherency rules? So I've got these two buff amplifiers who basically have to sit right next to each other on the table?

Am I understanding that right? That's how I played it, and it was a lot less "amazing" than I originally hoped.

Welcome to Nighthaunt! We've got the Halloween spirit around here all year long!

So, yeah, Chainghasts come in units of 2 or 4. They do have to stay within 1" horizontally and 6" vertically of each other. And, to use that bubble of Spirit Torment goodness, you need them wholly within 12" of a Spirit Torment. This works out to be more like a Venn diagram than a whole other bubble of buffing on the table. This doesn't stop you from bringing multiple units of Chainghasts to do it again, though.

BUT! That's not where their strength really lies. These guys are an easy choice to put in the Underworlds to sit for a while. Their ranged damage from their flails of therapy is, at best, 3 damage each so you don't really need them trying to shoot things. What they do best, though, is pal around with Bladegheist Revenants. The Bladegheists get the full buff of having a Spirit Torment near by if the Chainghasts are there, and there doesn't even need to be a Spirit Torment in the game for that to happen. Drop these emotional support professionals from the Underworlds as close you can to the enemy unit you intend to charge and then charge the Bladeghiests into them. 9" out is plenty of room for their 12" aura to affect the Bladegheists.

Be careful, though. The melee flail attack is really, really tempting. 1 attack for every enemy model in 2"? Depending on what you charge, that could be up around 2 or 3 attacks on average and not a lot of damage. I'd only advise it if you see the very specific scenario of a hero next to a unit full of 25mm or 32mm models that your BGs charged. You could charge the Chainghasts into the hero and use the suped-up swings on it. But even then I probably wouldn't.

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If I can ask a followup question, would Chainghasts be preferred over a Spirit Torment for buddying up with some Bladegheist Revenants? If so, why? Cause of the shooting for a little extra damage and the fact they're a bit cheaper? Just interested because my instinct is that the returning models to your Bladegheist unit seems super juicy, but I'm not particularly experienced with Nighthaunt.

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26 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

If I can ask a followup question, would Chainghasts be preferred over a Spirit Torment for buddying up with some Bladegheist Revenants? If so, why? Cause of the shooting for a little extra damage and the fact they're a bit cheaper? Just interested because my instinct is that the returning models to your Bladegheist unit seems super juicy, but I'm not particularly experienced with Nighthaunt.

Not getting Deathless Spirits on a group I very likely launched out pretty far away from my main force would also seem like a reason to lean towards the Hero over the Chainghasts?

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2 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

If I can ask a followup question, would Chainghasts be preferred over a Spirit Torment for buddying up with some Bladegheist Revenants? If so, why? Cause of the shooting for a little extra damage and the fact they're a bit cheaper? Just interested because my instinct is that the returning models to your Bladegheist unit seems super juicy, but I'm not particularly experienced with Nighthaunt.

1 hour ago, Lupercal said:

Not getting Deathless Spirits on a group I very likely launched out pretty far away from my main force would also seem like a reason to lean towards the Hero over the Chainghasts?

So the issue here is that Bladegheists make for a poor main blob. They're too expensive, can only be taken in a unit of 20 max, and too inefficient in large groups. 

Any of Chainrasps, Grimghasts, or even Harridans or Spirit Hosts make for a better main blob. Typically, you'll want your Spirit Torment with your main blob, so that it can be bringing back models to that blob. This allows your main blob to act as an anvil. Obviously, it will also boost the hitting power of your main blob. 

Due to this and that taking a second Spirit Torment is often not in the cards, it may make sense to have a unit of Chainghasts to buddy up with a unit of 10 Bladegheists that are meant to threaten an area outside of your main blob. 

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1 hour ago, Dogmantra said:

If I can ask a followup question, would Chainghasts be preferred over a Spirit Torment for buddying up with some Bladegheist Revenants? If so, why? Cause of the shooting for a little extra damage and the fact they're a bit cheaper? Just interested because my instinct is that the returning models to your Bladegheist unit seems super juicy, but I'm not particularly experienced with Nighthaunt.

 

1 hour ago, Lupercal said:

Not getting Deathless Spirits on a group I very likely launched out pretty far away from my main force would also seem like a reason to lean towards the Hero over the Chainghasts?

Limited hero spots, their costs, their board time, and them almost always being targets when on the field are the main reasons.

A ST is always going to outperform Chainghasts, no question, but you also have to weigh the cost of potentially losing that ST vs losing Chainghasts when accompanying the Bladegheists. -1 to hit from Look Out, Sir helps, but not as much as not even being on the board. A ST you will very much want out on turn 1, or at least once fighting starts, otherwise you're losing out on the free healing, model returning, and rerolls, and all of the points the model is worth. But Chainghasts? Who cares if you have them in reserves for a couple of turns?

The other thing to consider is how you're using your troops. We're not a "stand and fight" army. Hammer and Anvil rarely works out for us. We want to be the ones charging into battle, but we also need that battle to end very fast, unless you're trying tar pit with Spirit Hosts or Chainrasps. That often means hero support is required for that damage, but also means having the bodies that actually do the swinging and doing damage. Aside Olynder, Kudoss, and either Knight of Shrouds you're not going to be getting a ton of damage from the hero itself, but rather the unit you can bring with them. The difference of 40 points might mean another unit of bodies somewhere.

In the end, it'll always be your call. If ST was cheaper, I'd bring two every game. But my experience has been that it often means leaving out an endless spell or coming too far under points to be equal to my opponent.

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Thanks for the response! I've been playing Stormcast a lot so NH is quite a different beast. Not managed to get them to the table yet because I'm just severely lacking in battleline, and units in general, so it's nice to get some basic tips that will help me focus on certain units when I have the cash to expand!

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Figured I'd break out my models and try to illustrate in real space the concepts of both the Death Star charge and the Chainghast/Bladegheist interactions.

So, first, the Death Star.

Here's what 2000 points gets you in the Sotek build:1998768417_12000Points.jpg.d12d3ae35651b0565e204108d70ad066.jpg

The main body in the center is the Death Star. The Chainghasts, Spirit Hosts, and the Terminexus represent points, but should in the very least be what goes into the Underworlds and aren't on the field during deployment. (Ignore that I am missing some Chainrasps, they are currently being stretched on the rack [read: mended with drying superglue] for their misdeeds. Also ignore my movement trays, I'd have taken them out in a real game.)

Here's a closer look at the formation itself:

200202602_2DeathStarFormation.jpg.5e97d96bb3357822c2fe91a08d8c3e46.jpg

Each of these units and their position is pretty important.

  • The Chainrasps perform two functions: The bulk of your damage output and the biggest buffer against incoming damage.
  • The Reapers perform one function, essentially: Higher damage output against hordes, but otherwise extra damage that swings with Chainrasps.
  • The Bladegheists and Black Coach have versatility: If your opponent can't put anything in reserves, isn't fast, can't teleport, or can otherwise exploit an exposed back end, they can roam and engage threats on the field. Otherwise, they provide flank support for your heroes and, in the case of the Black Coach, provide healing.
  • Heroes
    • The Spirit Torment needs to be as close to the center as possible, both to hide it as much as possible from enemy targeting (it is arguably the most important model in the setup), but also so that everything is within 6" for it's Captured Soul Energy. It is not the general for this exact reason.
    • The Guardian of Souls has a similar need. Being the General in this build, staying central allows for Ruler of the Spirit Hosts to have maximum targets.
    • The Krulghast Cruciator has a little play, both the Empowered Excruciation and Pendant of the Fell Wind that it carries having a wholly within 12" range. Shooting at 12" also means it can be back a bit.
    • Knight of Shrouds also needs to be wholly within 12" for its ability to affect everyone, but can be offset just a bit for hopes of engaging in battle, if and only if, Soul Cage was successful. It's carrying the Mystic Tome in this build, and Soul Cage also has a range of 12".
    • Kurdoss is there for violence. Just keep him protected until you can use him. He goes on the outside edge because he thirsts for a fight an can engage at your discretion.
    • Lady Olynder does all her consistent damage 10" and needs to be within 6" to use her Grave-sands. So she gets a spot centralized with the group, but can edge up as needed. Though she has 2" on her staff, she should never be in combat unless your Chainrasps can prevent a 1" enemy weapon from hitting you, and never if they are carrying anything more than that. Functionally ignore her Handmaidens for this reason.

You might notice there is a gap. That is because:

49594406_3DeathStarFormationWithTerminexus.jpg.fef1af81e9254cd437405eb6e2c36ab1.jpg

You will want to cast the Terminexus as soon as possible. If there is any ranged, or damaging magic, or any chance that the enemy can engage you before you want to fight, you have this to keep your heroes alive. Your opponent is not only going to have to hard-target a hero to get enough wounds on it to kill it, it has to in a single round, otherwise you will have at least 1 hero phase to start healing. It goes here because it has a 6" range, but not wholly, in which to heal, and putting here makes it easy to hit all the heroes and the Coach (if the Coach is with this group).

Okay, that's the basic formation out of the way. Keep in mind that during the course of a game, things can shift and jostle, and you may opt to detach units like the Bladegheists or Kurdoss at any time. As long as your heroes are protected and your buffs are overlapping and affecting everyone, that's the core takeaway of this formation.

Now, what about getting into combat?

Ideally, you want to dictate when that happens. With the Pendant of the Fell Wind, the entire group can move 9" without a run, accounting for the slowest of the group. Since you won't attack with most of the heroes, they can run bringing the movement of the entire group to 11" and still being able to charge, so long as Oly and other 6" movement heroes roll a 2 to run. If they lag a bit, that's okay if the buffs stay in range, but don't lag too much. You still have to consider ranges after charging.

When engaging, try not to do this first setup:

403456000_4ChainraspsNeedA3HeadOn.jpg.7e81e5557dbf50cdcaf274b93d5f26df.jpg

While the Chainrasps only need a 3 to successfully charge, coming in dead-on means you won't have a lot of room for the Reapers or Kurdoss to join the fight. If this is all you can manage, either because of terrain or other factors, then certainly go for it and maybe leave a gap in the middle for a Reaper to get within a 1/2". But this isn't ideal.

Instead try to manage this:

175474733_4ChainraspsNeedA3.jpg.2aed8b0d86ba6e3c5725c9e54c7ff15a.jpg

Coming in at an angle means you can leverage the charge roll to position as many ghosts swinging for blood as possible. (Ignore my bad positioning of that Chainrasp that violates the 3" rule. This was hard to photograph and keep everything in check...)

Considering roll averages, a charge roll should land around 6. This setup allows for even worse rolls to still be advantageous to you. The Chainrasps need only a 3 to engage. Let's assume you roll a 4.

852048264_5ChainraspCharge.jpg.3ccdc7c5796ec552fa67bf605d246318.jpg

A roll of a 4 will place you somewhere like this. Obviously, if you roll higher or manage to net that all-powerful Wave of Terror, this will look completely different. Use the distance you can move to get into position, remember you have 3" of pile in available on activation, but also remember you need your buff auras.

So, now the Reapers:

2097064039_6ReapersNeedA4-5.jpg.b64db500dd6cc42eae9199b0f5a81a77.jpg

The Reapers only need a 4 for one of them to make contact. You only need one to do so. Since the average charge roll is 6, you are still better than average if you can get a 4-5 for comfortable movement. No matter what the charge roll is, just make contact with one reaper and then flow the rest behind. Don't worry about cohesion at this step.

So let's assume they make the charge.

1695244507_7ReaperCharge.jpg.734b35132cc995590554a504c840a18e.jpg

Reapers, with their 2" of range, should fall in behind the Chainrasps. Cohesion only matters at the end of the turn, so you can safely ignore it now an use their combat phase to consolidate.

Kurdoss. Oh Kurdoss. He's itching for a fight, and if you played your movement and charges right, he only needs a 6 to get it. A perfectly average roll percentage.

665680848_8KurdossNeedsa6.jpg.a21b18d99f974e20fe23e0a9a3db5f6b.jpg

Okay, so my ability to take pictures and also use rulers kind of stops around this point, if it hadn't already. Try to take the angle of the picture, the balanced ruler, and everything else with a grain of salt. Just a grain, though, save the rest for Kurdoss.

Keep in mind, we're doing something with all this movement very few other armies can do. We fly, so we can ignore our own models when measuring movement. Our only bit of concern is making sure the model's bases can go where you want them to after the move. No curve rulering necessary, and Kurdoss can take great advantage of that right here.

Anyway, why was all this necessary? The buffs!

1094580228_10STAura.jpg.1f71a5defacdab04f3581d5aa4c4b252.jpg

And here is my absolutely poor attempt at showing you what I mean. After all of this your wholly within 12" buffs should still be in range. Fire off that CP on the KoS, revel in the free RR-misses/1s, soak up that +1 to wound!

But, be careful. Your front is now exposed should something slip in for your heroes. If you engage like this and cannot quickly kill what's in front of you, consider the next phase carefully. If you win the priority, great, you can shuffle your heroes somewhere. If not, hopefully this big mess means that your opponent focuses on what can certainly kill them in the second round of combat and not the heroes, or are too far away with reinforcements. Lastly, remember your Terminexus; it's there to keep your heroes up, but if you don't need it have it fly out and turn on damage mode to assist with some mortal wounds. Oh, and the Black Coach and Bladegheists can also join in if they are a part of the Star and not needed for rear protection.

 

Okay. Chainghasts. Why Chainghasts? This is why.

1709734982_11ChainghastUnderworlds.jpg.6ec19789e9eef6ca5ad924d9e46c9751.jpg

You can zone in a unit of these at minimum range, 9" out, at the end of the movement phase. Not pictured: The Bladegheists who are, of course, in the perfect position to charge.

56111304_12ChainghastAura.jpg.35a654160fe2097ed2202b086fe37840.jpg

And here are the Bladegheists. No, they don't bunch up like this and fight in two ranks, I just wanted to grab a quick picture. The important part here is that there is more than enough room, even if wrapping around an enemy, to stay wholly within 12" for the buff.

It's generally better to use the Chainghasts for this partially because they are cheap, partially because they are not benefitting anyone other than the Bladeghests and so you are not losing out on anything when they are in the Underworlds, and partially because if you fail the charge with the Bladegheists you don't have a Spirit Torment hanging out by itself ready to be picked off. That being said, if you do opt to use a Sprit Torment like this, there's nothing wrong with that. For sure Captured Soul Energy and Deathless Sprits are worthy reasons to park a ST in reserve for a moment like this, or accompanying them around the board. Just mind movement distances all involved units are capable of, including running.

9 Kurdoss Charge.jpg

Not sure why this Kurdoss pic is here again. I can't get rid of it. I guess Kurdoss is just that angry...

Edited by EnixLHQ
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52 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Thanks for the response! I've been playing Stormcast a lot so NH is quite a different beast. Not managed to get them to the table yet because I'm just severely lacking in battleline, and units in general, so it's nice to get some basic tips that will help me focus on certain units when I have the cash to expand!

Welcome to the faction. Hopefully we can get you the information you need to get you on your way. Feel free to ask about anything not covered. I have written a (very dense) guide for beginners that might help, too.

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3 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Figured I'd break out my models and try to illustrate in real space the concepts of both the Death Star charge and the Chainghast/Bladegheist interactions.

So, first, the Death Star.

Here's what 2000 points gets you in the Sotek build:1998768417_12000Points.jpg.d12d3ae35651b0565e204108d70ad066.jpg

The main body in the center is the Death Star. The Chainghasts, Spirit Hosts, and the Terminexus represent points, but should in the very least be what goes into the Underworlds and aren't on the field during deployment. (Ignore that I am missing some Chainrasps, they are currently being stretched on the rack [read: mended with drying superglue] for their misdeeds. Also ignore my movement trays, I'd have taken them out in a real game.)

Here's a closer look at the formation itself:

200202602_2DeathStarFormation.jpg.5e97d96bb3357822c2fe91a08d8c3e46.jpg

Each of these units and their position is pretty important.

  • The Chainrasps perform two functions: The bulk of your damage output and the biggest buffer against incoming damage.
  • The Reapers perform one function, essentially: Higher damage output against hordes, but otherwise extra damage that swings with Chainrasps.
  • The Bladegheists and Black Coach have versatility: If your opponent can't put anything in reserves, isn't fast, can't teleport, or can otherwise exploit an exposed back end, they can roam and engage threats on the field. Otherwise, they provide flank support for your heroes and, in the case of the Black Coach, provide healing.
  • Heroes
    • The Spirit Torment needs to be as close to the center as possible, both to hide it as much as possible from enemy targeting (it is arguably the most important model in the setup), but also so that everything is within 6" for it's Captured Soul Energy. It is not the general for this exact reason.
    • The Guardian of Souls has a similar need. Being the General in this build, staying central allows for Ruler of the Spirit Hosts to have maximum targets.
    • The Krulghast Cruciator has a little play, both the Empowered Excruciation and Pendant of the Fell Wind that it carries having a wholly within 12" range. Shooting at 12" also means it can be back a bit.
    • Knight of Shrouds also needs to be wholly within 12" for its ability to affect everyone, but can be offset just a bit for hopes of engaging in battle, if and only if, Soul Cage was successful. It's carrying the Mystic Tome in this build, and Soul Cage also has a range of 12".
    • Kurdoss is there for violence. Just keep him protected until you can use him. He goes on the outside edge because he thirsts for a fight an can engage at your discretion.
    • Lady Olynder does all her consistent damage 10" and needs to be within 6" to use her Grave-sands. So she gets a spot centralized with the group, but can edge up as needed. Though she has 2" on her staff, she should never be in combat unless your Chainrasps can prevent a 1" enemy weapon from hitting you, and never if they are carrying anything more than that. Functionally ignore her Handmaidens for this reason.

You might notice there is a gap. That is because:

49594406_3DeathStarFormationWithTerminexus.jpg.fef1af81e9254cd437405eb6e2c36ab1.jpg

You will want to cast the Terminexus as soon as possible. If there is any ranged, or damaging magic, or any chance that the enemy can engage you before you want to fight, you have this to keep your heroes alive. Your opponent is not only going to have to hard-target a hero to get enough wounds on it to kill it, it has to in a single round, otherwise you will have at least 1 hero phase to start healing. It goes here because it has a 6" range, but not wholly, in which to heal, and putting here makes it easy to hit all the heroes and the Coach (if the Coach is with this group).

Okay, that's the basic formation out of the way. Keep in mind that during the course of a game, things can shift and jostle, and you may opt to detach units like the Bladegheists or Kurdoss at any time. As long as your heroes are protected and your buffs are overlapping and affecting everyone, that's the core takeaway of this formation.

Now, what about getting into combat?

Ideally, you want to dictate when that happens. With the Pendant of the Fell Wind, the entire group can move 9" without a run, accounting for the slowest of the group. Since you won't attack with most of the heroes, they can run bringing the movement of the entire group to 11" and still being able to charge, so long as Oly and other 6" movement heroes roll a 2 to run. If they lag a bit, that's okay if the buffs stay in range, but don't lag too much. You still have to consider ranges after charging.

When engaging, try not to do this first setup:

403456000_4ChainraspsNeedA3HeadOn.jpg.7e81e5557dbf50cdcaf274b93d5f26df.jpg

While the Chainrasps only need a 3 to successfully charge, coming in dead-on means you won't have a lot of room for the Reapers or Kurdoss to join the fight. If this is all you can manage, either because of terrain or other factors, then certainly go for it and maybe leave a gap in the middle for a Reaper to get within a 1/2". But this isn't ideal.

Instead try to manage this:

175474733_4ChainraspsNeedA3.jpg.2aed8b0d86ba6e3c5725c9e54c7ff15a.jpg

Coming in at an angle means you can leverage the charge roll to position as many ghosts swinging for blood as possible. (Ignore my bad positioning of that Chainrasp that violates the 3" rule. This was hard to photograph and keep everything in check...)

Considering roll averages, a charge roll should land around 6. This setup allows for even worse rolls to still be advantageous to you. The Chainrasps need only a 3 to engage. Let's assume you roll a 4.

852048264_5ChainraspCharge.jpg.3ccdc7c5796ec552fa67bf605d246318.jpg

A roll of a 4 will place you somewhere like this. Obviously, if you roll higher or manage to net that all-powerful Wave of Terror, this will look completely different. Use the distance you can move to get into position, remember you have 3" of pile in available on activation, but also remember you need your buff auras.

So, now the Reapers:

2097064039_6ReapersNeedA4-5.jpg.b64db500dd6cc42eae9199b0f5a81a77.jpg

The Reapers only need a 4 for one of them to make contact. You only need one to do so. Since the average charge roll is 6, you are still better than average if you can get a 4-5 for comfortable movement. No matter what the charge roll is, just make contact with one reaper and then flow the rest behind. Don't worry about cohesion at this step.

So let's assume they make the charge.

1695244507_7ReaperCharge.jpg.734b35132cc995590554a504c840a18e.jpg

Reapers, with their 2" of range, should fall in behind the Chainrasps. Cohesion only matters at the end of the turn, so you can safely ignore it now an use their combat phase to consolidate.

Kurdoss. Oh Kurdoss. He's itching for a fight, and if you played your movement and charges right, he only needs a 6 to get it. A perfectly average roll percentage.

665680848_8KurdossNeedsa6.jpg.a21b18d99f974e20fe23e0a9a3db5f6b.jpg

Okay, so my ability to take pictures and also use rulers kind of stops around this point, if it hadn't already. Try to take the angle of the picture, the balanced ruler, and everything else with a grain of salt. Just a grain, though, save the rest for Kurdoss.

Keep in mind, we're doing something with all this movement very few other armies can do. We fly, so we can ignore our own models when measuring movement. Our only bit of concern is making sure the model's bases can go where you want them to after the move. No curve rulering necessary, and Kurdoss can take great advantage of that right here.

Anyway, why was all this necessary? The buffs!

1094580228_10STAura.jpg.1f71a5defacdab04f3581d5aa4c4b252.jpg

And here is my absolutely poor attempt at showing you what I mean. After all of this your wholly within 12" buffs should still be in range. Fire off that CP on the KoS, revel in the free RR-misses/1s, soak up that +1 to wound!

But, be careful. Your front is now exposed should something slip in for your heroes. If you engage like this and cannot quickly kill what's in front of you, consider the next phase carefully. If you win the priority, great, you can shuffle your heroes somewhere. If not, hopefully this big mess means that your opponent focuses on what can certainly kill them in the second round of combat and not the heroes, or are too far away with reinforcements. Lastly, remember your Terminexus; it's there to keep your heroes up, but if you don't need it have it fly out and turn on damage mode to assist with some mortal wounds. Oh, and the Black Coach and Bladegheists can also join in if they are a part of the Star and not needed for rear protection.

 

Okay. Chainghasts. Why Chainghasts? This is why.

1709734982_11ChainghastUnderworlds.jpg.6ec19789e9eef6ca5ad924d9e46c9751.jpg

You can zone in a unit of these at minimum range, 9" out, at the end of the movement phase. Not pictured: The Bladegheists who are, of course, in the perfect position to charge.

56111304_12ChainghastAura.jpg.35a654160fe2097ed2202b086fe37840.jpg

And here are the Bladegheists. No, they don't bunch up like this and fight in two ranks, I just wanted to grab a quick picture. The important part here is that there is more than enough room, even if wrapping around an enemy, to stay wholly within 12" for the buff.

It's generally better to use the Chainghasts for this partially because they are cheap, partially because they are not benefitting anyone other than the Bladeghests and so you are not losing out on anything when they are in the Underworlds, and partially because if you fail the charge with the Bladegheists you don't have a Spirit Torment hanging out by itself ready to be picked off. That being said, if you do opt to use a Sprit Torment like this, there's nothing wrong with that. For sure Captured Soul Energy and Deathless Sprits are worthy reasons to park a ST in reserve for a moment like this, or accompanying them around the board. Just mind movement distances all involved units are capable of, including running.

9 Kurdoss Charge.jpg

Not sure why this Kurdoss pic is here again. I can't get rid of it. I guess Kurdoss is just that angry...

Very nice demonstrations! I hope you get to add this to your guide!

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54 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

Very nice demonstrations! I hope you get to add this to your guide!

I'd love to, but it's already so bloated and terrible! I'll see about making a second one and linking it, or something

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On 9/28/2021 at 2:53 PM, Ruvich said:

While I would love that, I do not think so. To me it appears like it’s the hull of a ship with some kind of naval ram - wasn’t there something with harrowdeep, the new Underworlds Place, being situated close to something called the shadow sea? Ä I can’t help but feel the mighty bone symbolic appears OB-like.

 

though, I hope for a proper NH monster. ;(

New Dreadfleet?

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So many warm words about Kurdoss...

As for me, in 5 games (in second AoS edition) his list of great deads consists of:

1) 1 stolen CP

2) 2 damages dealt

3) 5 deaths performed

Not sure if the problem is in him or me, but unluck is so unluck.

At least - model is so good.

Can you explain his powers for me?

20210228113510_IMG_0071.JPG

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14 minutes ago, Ranzou said:

So many warm words about Kurdoss...

As for me, in 5 games (in second AoS edition) his list of great deads consists of:

1) 1 stolen CP

2) 2 damages dealt

3) 5 deaths performed

Not sure if the problem is in him or me, but unluck is so unluck.

At least - model is so good.

Can you explain his powers for me?

20210228113510_IMG_0071.JPG

Kurdoss is a beat stick with a hero tag. A Spirit Host and two Bladegheists in a compact package with their own ward save.

Okay, so mechanically he has two uses. First, his ability to steal CP was patched in the FAQ to operate with the new 3.0 rules. If your opponent has a general on the field and receives a command point at the start of their hero phase for them being there, you can roll a dice and on a 5+ take it from them and add it to your pool. Yeah, not likely but also not so unlikely that it's impossible. This just has that "oh ******" value that tends to pop up at the wrong time for your opponent.

Aside from that, he's a close-range bruiser. Super short. Everything is at 1", but it's 11 attacks across two profiles. Like any of our best abilities, his damage really relies on 6s. 6s to wound on his staff is D6 wounds at -2 rend. 6s to hit with the Heralds is a mortal wound.

On his own it's not a lot, but with the other buffs in the death star his attacks are sure to hit. +1 to hit from the KoS, reroll 1s to hit from the ST, +1 to wound from the GoS, 5+ shrug from KC. It can easily make him deal a ton of damage with 2/2/-2/D3 and 3/3/-/1. If the target is a general then that RR1 becomes RRAll hits.

In terms of usefulness, it depends on the buffs, luck, and the fact he can fill a hero spot. He's also not necessary, and can fill a much needed "pin cushion" spot. If he does well and your opponent yeets him, no big deal. If he does poorly he's still a mobile Deathless emitter. But, if you can buff him, he's a portable nuke. That sets him apart from other cheaper heroes.

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