Jump to content

AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion


dmorley21
 Share

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, CaptainSoup said:

I have no idea what they were thinking upping the mourngul to 300 points. It was at best questionable to bring him before, now I really doubt we'll see any play of him outside the stray casual list.

The Krulghast rule clarification is much appreciated though. Good to know I was using it right the whole time lol.

EDIT: According to a Soulblight player, they nerfed the Mourngul because Soulblight players were abusing his -1 to hit and ability to inflict MWs. Not sure how credible that is but there ya go.

The model did get slight improvements, now debuffing enemy units and not models. In addition, it's bracketing got slightly better.

I don't think it's unplayable or a flat out don't take the way something like Glaivewrath Stalkers are, but at 300 points you have to have a clear plan for it.  I could see it as part of a moving castle/deathball as it does have 2" reach and could reach over a 32mm or two rows of 25mm. I'd want to buddy it up with a Krulghast (5+ ward gives it survivability) and Spirit Torment. I know Tyler Mengel plans on running multiples of them at a tournament I'll be at as well in October, so I'll be curious to see how that build does. It's not something I'm personally excited about though, as I already run an elite list and don't see where it would fit for me. 

I'll second that I haven't seen too many people putting the Mourngul into Soulblight, or seeing it in too many lists doing well at tournaments in the US/CAN/UK. I have a local guy who does it from time to time, but that's all I know of. 

17 minutes ago, relic456 said:

I'm gonna choose to interpret that no Nighthaunt FAQ update might mean a new battletome sooner rather than later! Great to have Krulghast clarity none the less!

I'm not so sure - there really wasn't anything I expected to get changed from the battletome. I had hoped they might add "Warmaster" to Olynder at least in the Emerald Host, but alas. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

The model did get slight improvements, now debuffing enemy units and not models. In addition, it's bracketing got slightly better.

I don't think it's unplayable or a flat out don't take the way something like Glaivewrath Stalkers are, but at 300 points you have to have a clear plan for it.  I could see it as part of a moving castle/deathball as it does have 2" reach and could reach over a 32mm or two rows of 25mm. I'd want to buddy it up with a Krulghast (5+ ward gives it survivability) and Spirit Torment. I know Tyler Mengel plans on running multiples of them at a tournament I'll be at as well in October, so I'll be curious to see how that build does. It's not something I'm personally excited about though, as I already run an elite list and don't see where it would fit for me.

Its true they did tweak those stats a bit, but to up his cost along side those tweaks just makes him still over-costed. If they would have left his points alone I think it would make more sense, but as of right now and how prominent having monsters (or better hero monsters) in a list are, he is still too squishy and for us specifically and puts a huge target on his back to focus fire in a turn to get those extra VP. It would make more sense for us to not carry any monsters and deny our opponents those extra points.

People can certainly think of something to make him worthwhile though, but it'll have to be a huge focus on of the list to help keep him alive long enough to compensate for his lack of sustainability.

Edited by CaptainSoup
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, CaptainSoup said:

In case there are those that aren't familiar, the term "Warhammer Legends" is a phrase used by GW to say that this will be the last time that document will be updated. As a rule of thumb, GW recommends to not use any Warhammer Legends datasheets/warscrolls for competitive tournaments. Any future updates to the game will not take any Warhammer Legends sheets/scrolls into consideration for balance purposes.

When GW introduced this for Warhammer 40k, it was pretty much agreed by the community at large that any datasheets put into Legends will never see the table again since GW will no longer balance or update them. So far this has been proven true and I would think it best to assume that the AoS community will follow the same example. The only exception to this would be in situation where a RTT or GT will announce ahead of time that using Legends is allowed for their tourneys.

Excerpt from one of the Legends Documents:
 

TL;DR: Anything that says "Warhammer Legends" in the title of the document or is in the section of WarCom called "Warhammer Legends" can no longer to used for play outside casual game use where its agreed to be used and tournaments that say ahead of time that the documents can be used.

Didn't realize it was in the Legends section. I blame my bleary eyes at the time. Ah well.

2 hours ago, relic456 said:

I'm gonna choose to interpret that no Nighthaunt FAQ update might mean a new battletome sooner rather than later! Great to have Krulghast clarity none the less!

They also didn't touch on our Processions from Be'lakor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am stoked that our Krulghast Cruciator negates mortal wounds. A Reikenor's Condemned list with the Krulghast Cruciator equipped with Midnight Tome (Reaping Scythe) and Guardian of Souls casting Shademist will give some pretty decent durability to our Chainrasp Hordes. Spirit Torment giving full re-rolls is just icing on top!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, lare2 said:

Very happy to see KC confirmed to negate mortals as well. Been running it that way, after a discussion with each opponent, so happy to know I've not been cheating!

I play against Stormcast and their ability to deal out mortal wounds on death (as well as Spirit Flasks!) has just been diminished slightly. Almost tempted to take two KCs...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

The model did get slight improvements, now debuffing enemy units and not models. In addition, it's bracketing got slightly better.

I love the new bracketing. I'd even consider the first 6 damage taken as inconsequential, which is a big deal
Having a monster that still does it's thing virtually unimpeded after having been stomped to less than half health would be so amazing... if he was priced more realistically.

 

It's infuriating to me just how close the Mourngul is to true greatness. But instead we have a 300-point tax as our only monster in the faction

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Q: In section 14.3 of the core rules, ward rolls are made to negate a wound or mortal wound before it is allocated to a model. However, many units in the game have abilities that trigger when a wound or mortal wound is allocated to a friendly model. Can I use abilities that negate allocated wounds or mortal wounds after a ward roll? A: Yes.

All our FeelNoPains (Deathless Spirits, Krulghast's aura, Lord Exec's save against mortals) now stack with the Amulet of Destiny from the Core book which gives a hero a 5+ Ward 😍

 

It's interesting that Ward saves do not replace FeelNoPains of all sorts as the new generic term for it, or even mechanically. I think most of us assumed that this was the case. You specifically roll the ward save before Deathless Spirit etc, cementing it as a new mechanic

Edited by The_Dudemeister
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

All our FeelNoPains (Deathless Spirits, Krulghast's aura, Lord Exec's save against mortals) now stack with the Amulet of Destiny from the Core book which gives a hero a 5+ Ward 😍

 

It's interesting that Ward saves do not replace FeelNoPains of all sorts as the new generic term for it, or even mechanically. I think most of us assumed that this was the case. You specifically roll the ward save before Deathless Spirit etc, cementing it as a new mechanic

To quote an Englishman: "This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

There's already talk that this was likely a misprint--reading like two questions got rolled into one and only answered the second one--and TOs might not allow it. Many tournament players have also said they won't be taking advantage of it. A few have called it bad sportsmanship if anyone does. And though I can't cite it and it therefore might be conjecture or a straight lie, I read that Sam Pearson said this was going to be submitted for a rush fix.

Give the Cities thread a look and you can see how runaway this can get if you play someone who decides to use stacking.

For an army like us, though, it can protect a key hero from range sniping a bit, but only one and not that much if they are being hard-targeted. I think we kind of missed the train on this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Updated my guide with the FAQ updates. Not much changed so I'll list them here.

  • No more question on if KC's enhanced Deathless Spirits also applies to mortal wounds (it does).
  • No more question on if Lady Olynder gets a free use of her CA in Emerald Host (she does not as she cannot take a Command Trait).
  • No more question on if the Warscroll Battalions Chainguard and The Condemned stack with the Procession: Reikenor's Condemned (the possibility doesn't exist in matched play, do what you want in casual).
  • Mourngul now debuffs all units within 6".

I'll add a more detailed look into the Deathstar or Castle tactic soon.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And now, Death Star explained! It's in the Writs of the Mortarch section.

At 35 pages, over 20,000 words, it would be really nice to be able to incorporate pages, headers, content links, or something...

 

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to try this list for fun but i dont know if i'll get stomped horribly. Havent played any games with my nighthaunt yet. Any comments?

LEADERS
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215)* - General
Spirit Torment (115)*
Prince Duvalle (200)* - Allies

UNITS
3 x Spirit Hosts (125)*
3 x Spirit Hosts (125)*
1 x The Crimson Court (0)*

BEHEMOTHS
Black Coach (220)*

CORE BATTALIONS *Battle Regiment
1000/1000 points

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/2/2021 at 1:49 AM, Iksdee said:

I want to try this list for fun but i dont know if i'll get stomped horribly. Havent played any games with my nighthaunt yet. Any comments?

LEADERS
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215)* - General
Spirit Torment (115)*
Prince Duvalle (200)* - Allies

UNITS
3 x Spirit Hosts (125)*
3 x Spirit Hosts (125)*
1 x The Crimson Court (0)*

BEHEMOTHS
Black Coach (220)*

CORE BATTALIONS *Battle Regiment
1000/1000 points

Don't know what Nighthaunt units you have access to, but the list looks fun. Enough NH models to get a taste.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some more updates to my guide

  • Added a Know your limits section to General Tactica (Underworlds/Spectral Summons into a charge isn't the best of ideas, guys)
  • Added more information to Chainrasp Horde about their base size and what that means.
  • Expanded Lady Olynder and Kurdoss Valentian into full-fledged write-ups thanks to their rebirthed usefulness in the new era.
  • Added text to the end of Battery-Powered Curse Hearse to give more weight to the Reaper's Scythe option.
  • Fixed the Shyish Reaper ability description. Does more damage than I had stated.
  • A Thanks and Credit section at the very end
  • Small edits in many other sections

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greetings.

Can someone explain me, why everyone is fond of Horroghast? His main ability is to block comand abilities in battleshock phase in 12" wholly within aura.

But 15 points more we have geminids, which can block ALL comand abilities in TWO different units irrespective their size and spread aroind the table. In additon - two mortal wounds.

Aren't geminids better all around except price?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ranzou said:

Greetings.

Can someone explain me, why everyone is fond of Horroghast? His main ability is to block comand abilities in battleshock phase in 12" wholly within aura.

But 15 points more we have geminids, which can block ALL comand abilities in TWO different units irrespective their size and spread aroind the table. In additon - two mortal wounds.

Aren't geminids better all around except price?

I'm not sure if everyone really is all that fond of the Horrorghast, but if we are it's more because of +D3 models that run when the unit falls battleshock. That stacks with Lady Olynder if she's near by, resulting in 2-4 models running on top of what runs with the check with no hope of a command point to stop it.

For Geminids to work the damage has to be allocated first, and there's a chance that won't happen. Between the die roll and possible ward save, it's likely it will work but there's a chance it won't.

Nothing wrong with either choice. Choose the one that best fits your style and opponent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...