AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[EnixLHQ]

@Btimmy Same to hear you didn't have fun with it.

Same boat, different stream for me. I was losing steam and was actively refusing to play for a while. I rather not play at all if my favorite aesthetic isn't viable than force myself to play with a different army just to play the game.

But AoS 3.0 revitalized things for me for a bit. Until my opponents figured their changes out and started whipping me again. Now it's the Death Star. It has been the new fun and actually gives me more options during a game than it looks like it should. But, it's a band-aid over a deeper problem and may dry up if it doesn't solve the other tactical challenges I need it to 

Hopefully we're up soon for our refresh. 

[lare2]

Played my 1st game with NH for a while tonight. Don't run them that often anymore for obvious reasons but always have a blast when I do. Got the win against a Thunderstrike heavy SCE list. My tactics essentially consisted of playing the tactical game... essentially I ran away all night. Worked a treat. Knew I'd have little chance of causing damage and I think I only killed 1 model but a wins a win. They just couldn't cope with my numbers and speed and I had a pretty hefty lead by turn 3 which couldn't be caught. MVP had to be the Krulghast who sat in 30 Grimghast with a GoS. That 5+ ward really helps and makes 30 grim, along with the GoS, a pretty formidable anvil. Just a shame we've no real hammers. 

[dmorley21]

On 10/7/2021 at 6:33 PM, lare2 said:

Played my 1st game with NH for a while tonight. Don't run them that often anymore for obvious reasons but always have a blast when I do. Got the win against a Thunderstrike heavy SCE list. My tactics essentially consisted of playing the tactical game... essentially I ran away all night. Worked a treat. Knew I'd have little chance of causing damage and I think I only killed 1 model but a wins a win. They just couldn't cope with my numbers and speed and I had a pretty hefty lead by turn 3 which couldn't be caught. MVP had to be the Krulghast who sat in 30 Grimghast with a GoS. That 5+ ward really helps and makes 30 grim, along with the GoS, a pretty formidable anvil. Just a shame we've no real hammers. 

Yeah, I’ve been having some luck with a blob of 30 Reapers / Krulghast / Guardian / Spirit Torment. Had a funny game where they got into it with Yndrasta / Praetors / Annhilators and the two forces just exchanged blows the rest of the game as neither could punch through the other.

I’m participating in an 80 person event (Michigan GT) tomorrow and switched to two blobs of 20 Reapers. We’ll see how it goes. There’s two other Nighthaunt lists too. 

[dmorley21]

So  I think I can file my first 2 day event as a tremendous learning experience and a lot of fun. I lost all of my games Saturday, and won both on Sunday. The two other Nighthaunt players managed to go 3-2 (one running the staple death start list and then Tyler Mengel running 3 Mournguls). 

Overall, I was left wishing I had one more unit more often than not. Mannfred was my MVP (quickly followed by Krulghast) and I never lost my grand strategy of Prized Sorcery (Mannfred stayed alive every game... I also had Olynder, a Guardian, and a Midnight Tome carrying Krulghast). My list was:

Emerald Host

Lady O (general / shademist) / Mannfred / Guardian of Souls (soul cage) / Spirit Torment (PotFW) / Krulghast (Midnight Tome / Reaping Scythe)

20 Reapers / 20 Reapers / 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths

Mortalis Terminexus

 

A short and sweet rundown:

Game 1 was versus Hallowed Knights in Apex Predators. The list didn't have any of the new Stormcast in it - a lot of Sequitors and Evocators on Dracolines. I was given first turn and had a great first turn, getting off the Mortalis and Mannfred's Wind of Death for a lot of mortal wounds on his MSU units that were castled up. Controlled each objective with a unit of Reapers in the middle and Mannfred and Lady O on each flank. He only had two heroes and wasn't able to claim a single objective on turn 1. He got one on a Turn 2 and at that point it was 10-5. Then we messed up. I sent a single Hexwraith and my Guardian into his deployment zone for Savage Spearhead and he thought he could Unleash Hell from a movement instead of a charge and I didn't catch it, thinking I had just make a huge mistake. Didn't end up realizing our mistake until after the game. Losing that battle tactic was the beginning of the end for me as I couldn't stop his Evocators from tearing through my troops. I hadn't played against them before, and definitely underestimated them. I ended up losing by 1 pt for a minor loss (pack rules), but should have won the game had we remembered how Unleash Hell worked as he scored max points the rest of the game to get the 1 pt win. So that was frustrating on my part. 

Game 2 was versus an all Squig Gloomspite Gitz army in First Blood. I've never played against Squigs before, and was caught off-guard on a turn when they had all of their buffs up and some really good rolls. They bounced over my units and killed all of my heroes... and then I was toast. That was a learning game for me as it was an army I hadn't ever played against or really read up on as they're not that common or strong. 

Game 3 was against a Petrifex Elite Ossiarch player in Savage Gains. This was my worst loss. The list featured one bubble of 20 Mortek that was supported by a Harvester and Arkhan. I've never seen that type of castle before and thought a unit of 20 Reapers supported by the Spirit Torment / Guardian / Krulghast would be able to go in and just keep that unit locked in combat with similar casualties on both sides. Wow, I was wrong. With how many Mortek were healing from Arkhan and the Harvester plus some good shots from the catapult killing my Krulghast, that flank collapsed quickly. So then that block eventually made it into the middle and then I was doomed by a pincer. 

Game 4 was against Slaanesh on Power in Numbers. This won I ended up running away with as I was able to burn 3 objectives on turn 2, removed an objective on turn 3, and then burnt another one. This time a blob of 20 Grimghasts with their support system (Krulghast / Spirit Torment / Guardian) along with the Hexwraiths and Lady O were able to lock Gluttos, an allied Mega-Gargant, Sigvald, and a Keeper of Secrets in combat for several turns. This allowed Mannfred and my other unit of Reapers to play in my opponent's territory. 

Game 5 was against Ogors in Feral Foray. This was a close game that didn't finish, but I was able to raid two of his objectives while he still didn't have access to any of mine which allowed me to get far enough ahead on points. 

 

As I said, it was a lot of fun and a great learning experience. I do feel like I probably would have been fine doing a blob of 30 Reapers and a unit of 10 Harridans as I had been doing, but look forward to going to more events. 

[Ranzou]

I'm blowed if this is not nighthaunt miniature

[The_Dudemeister]

The newest Rumor Engine shows a Nighthaunt model. It's happening!

Guardian of Soul's upside-down lantern

[Benlisted]

6 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

The newest Rumor Engine shows a Nighthaunt model. It's happening!

Guardian of Soul's upside-down lantern

Looks like a basing detail to me - big NH monster please!!

[lare2]

2 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

The newest Rumor Engine shows a Nighthaunt model. It's happening!

Guardian of Soul's upside-down lantern

My thoughts instantly, as well. Come on!

[CaptainSoup]

Oh no. What is this feeling I'm having? Is this... hope? I'm scared. 🤣

[The_Dudemeister]

49 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

Is this... hope?

Hope? How dare yee enter the Nighthaunt thread with HOPE!

 

With Soul Wars gone, of course it's just an alternative GoS sculpt to buy as a single model. For twice the price and half the abilities. He's just a spoopy lamp with movement 0" now

Edited October 12, 2021 by The_Dudemeister

[EnixLHQ]

1 hour ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Hope? How dare yee enter the Nighthaunt thread with HOPE!

 

With Soul Wars gone, of course it's just an alternative GoS sculpt to buy as a single model. For twice the price and half the abilities. He's just a spoopy lamp with movement 0" now

You might be more right than you think. What if this is a deployable Spectral Lure emitter? Our answer to gravesites?

[The_Dudemeister]

58 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

You might be more right than you think. What if this is a deployable Spectral Lure emitter? Our answer to gravesites?

I hated the idea when I wrote it. But you just made it sound really cool 😁

[EnixLHQ]

28 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

I hated the idea when I wrote it. But you just made it sound really cool 😁

I know. Now I want one...

[Ruvich]

2 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

You might be more right than you think. What if this is a deployable Spectral Lure emitter? Our answer to gravesites?

I mean, it’s Halloween soon. Why not…both? 

[CaptainSoup]

6 hours ago, Ruvich said:

I mean, it’s Halloween soon. Why not…both? 

To help bring us back down from our hopeful highs, there is no set time frame of when a rumor engine becomes a fully revealed model. Could be a soon as a week (usually foreshadowed heavily when this happens) to over a year. The current oldest rumor engine yet solved is one from March of 2020. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by CaptainSoup

[EnixLHQ]

In other news: 

Look at image 3. A Nighthaunt army went 4-1!

3rd Place - Dirk Coe

Nighthaunt: Reikenor's Condemned - Victorious Secret

• Wins: 4
• RECORD: 55 / 55 / 5 / 55 / 55
• Battle Points: 225

Here is the list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Reikenor's Condemned
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Big Drogg Fort-Kicka (525)***
- Allies
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (135)***
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Corpse Candle
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215)***
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spirit Drain
Spirit Torment (115)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
30 x Chainrasp Horde (285)*
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)****
10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)****

Behemoths
Mourngul (300)**
Black Coach (220)**

Core Battalions
*Vanguard
Alpha-Beast Pack
*Command Entourage
****Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 525 / 400
Wounds: 124
Drops: 9

What do you guys think?

Edited October 15, 2021 by EnixLHQ

[The_Dudemeister]

I'd assume it's a very aggressive list. The two 10-man Chainrasp units as backfield objective holders. Their protection exclusively being that the opponent can't divert firepower to them if the rest of your army marches forward. Crucially for that to work, nothing goes into the underworld. Which in this particular list I wouldn't do anyway.

 

The 30-man Chainrasp unit is the one being directly babysat by Spirit Torment with Shademist and Guardian of Souls. The subfaction's Command ability would be used in the first turn for 6" extra movement, so both heroes have to advance to keep up. Personally, just for the first turn, I'd also really reinforce that big blob with yet another hero just because it is so menacing, immediately threatening the whole middle of the board. Black Coach would be a good pick due to his speed and yet another source of resurrection.

Such a big points investment far up the board also forces the opponent's hand. They either try to evade the center, which is not a good idea, or they engage with a big points investment themselves. At which point they're in range of anything that you set up beforehand from the Mega-Gargant to Lady O.

 

I'd like to know how he split the flanks. Though this list is versatile enough to have tons of options depending on the opponent. For example against many opponents the Mega-Gargant can hold a flank on his own. Against melee-centric lists I'd just park the Mourngul between the Mega-Gargant and the Chainrasp-blob in the middle

 

Shooty lists, I assume, need to be bum-rushed by Mourngul and Black Coach. In this meta you don't really have much choice other than sacrificing good assets for the chance to stop their shooting. But I can totally see how the one loss would be against a shooty list where that didn't work out

[dmorley21]

@EnixLHQ

This happened a couple months ago (August) and we discussed it then IIRC. It was a 30 person event in Washington state. 

A more recent 4-1 list was run by Mathew Tyrrell in an online tournament in Australia. He's the one that has the Borderline Wargaming YouTube channel that features some Nighthaunt battle reports. A link to that list can be found below:

TTT | Mathew Tyrrell - List (tabletop.to)

[EnixLHQ]

4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

@EnixLHQ

This happened a couple months ago (August) and we discussed it then IIRC. It was a 30 person event in Washington state. 

A more recent 4-1 list was run by Mathew Tyrrell in an online tournament in Australia. He's the one that has the Borderline Wargaming YouTube channel that features some Nighthaunt battle reports. A link to that list can be found below:

TTT | Mathew Tyrrell - List (tabletop.to)

Ah, my home state (Washington, that is). I wish I would have attended.

I would never have thought these kinds of lists would emerge for us, but I'm betting they are just counters to similar lists from the other factions.

[lare2]

I accidentally bought Nagash again. Used to run him in 2nd in LoN. Pure pie in the sky wish-listing but I hope we can run him with ghosties in the new book (when it comes) in the same way he can be for Soulblight. It would make sense to be able to run him in all Death factions... excluding FEC... the Hills have Eyes rejects that they are. 

[Dogmantra]

16 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

They probably meant Midnight Tome? Allowing the universal artefact Arcane Tome to grant a NH spell lore is outside the rules.

 

Is it? Interested to hear the reasoning behind this. From what I understand, the Arcane Tome gives the WIZARD keyword to a model, which allows them to pick a spell from any spell lore they have access to (and Lore of the Underworlds is NIGHTHAUNT WIZARDS only, which the unit is because they have the tome).

[EnixLHQ]

On 10/13/2021 at 1:36 PM, Dogmantra said:

Is it? Interested to hear the reasoning behind this. From what I understand, the Arcane Tome gives the WIZARD keyword to a model, which allows them to pick a spell from any spell lore they have access to (and Lore of the Underworlds is NIGHTHAUNT WIZARDS only, which the unit is because they have the tome).

CORRECTION: Consensus from tournament events is that Arcane Tome will allow Spell Lore selections for the hero its given to assuming all other keywords allow the Spell Lore to be chosen. This is not a concern for Nighthaunt, who only needs the faction keyword to select a Spell Lore in our current battletome.

Edited October 15, 2021 by EnixLHQ

[dmorley21]

19 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Ah, my home state (Washington, that is). I wish I would have attended.

I would never have thought these kinds of lists would emerge for us, but I'm betting they are just counters to similar lists from the other factions.

I think even more so than counters, it's hugely beneficial for battle tactics to have a difficult to kill monster. Gaining access to Monstrous Takeover as a battle tactic is huge. Getting an extra point here or there from achieving a battle tactic with a monster is huge as well as I have found that game scores tend to be close more often than not. 

Then there's what Big Drogg brings: the most wounds we can have in a unit, the highest rend we have access to, the most damage we have access to, an additional -1 bravery. 

I also still think there's a good list out there with him and a unit of 20 Harridans with buffs in place (Krulghast/Torment/Guardian... RotSPH and Black Coach and Emerald Lifeswarm if you have it). That combo would mean anything bravery 8 or less (hello Maw-Krushas and Stormdrake Guard) would be at -1 to hit. He could also stand behind two ranks of them and still probably get off his 3" attacks. If I had the model, I'd try it. I'd even look at buying it if it didn't look like all of a sudden we were getting a new book sometime soon with new models. 

[EnixLHQ]

11 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

I think even more so than counters, it's hugely beneficial for battle tactics to have a difficult to kill monster. Gaining access to Monstrous Takeover as a battle tactic is huge. Getting an extra point here or there from achieving a battle tactic with a monster is huge as well as I have found that game scores tend to be close more often than not. 

Then there's what Big Drogg brings: the most wounds we can have in a unit, the highest rend we have access to, the most damage we have access to, an additional -1 bravery. 

I also still think there's a good list out there with him and a unit of 20 Harridans with buffs in place (Krulghast/Torment/Guardian... RotSPH and Black Coach and Emerald Lifeswarm if you have it). That combo would mean anything bravery 8 or less (hello Maw-Krushas and Stormdrake Guard) would be at -1 to hit. He could also stand behind two ranks of them and still probably get off his 3" attacks. If I had the model, I'd try it. I'd even look at buying it if it didn't look like all of a sudden we were getting a new book sometime soon with new models. 

Proxy it! That's what I'm doing. Haven't had a chance to actually play with it yet, but I've got a buddy with a 3D printer willing to make a tower that replicates the base size and height of the model. If my next game isn't the culmination of the escalation league it will be a game where I feature Big Drogg.

Question is: Big Drogg and what else?

[Liquidsteel]

On 10/13/2021 at 11:58 PM, EnixLHQ said:

I go through it a few pages back, but getting a wizard keyword doesn't give you access to spell lores, your faction's first enhancement does. This is why allies don't have spell lores, either from their host faction or the army they ally to.

Arcane Tome makes you a Wizard, therefore you benefit from the Spell Lore enhancement and get a pick.

People have been using Arcane Tome to get access to their own spell lores, as well as Flaming Weapon e.g. on Gargants.