AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion

[Siorra]

15 hours ago, Yziel said:

My club has an escalation league starting soon and I thought I'd take the opportunity to jump into AoS!

I originally planned on playing boat dwarves but the Fish Elves have since won me over.

The league starts at 750pts and I wanted to know if this list is okay to start with?

Dhom-hain Battle Regiment

Akhelian Hero w/ Polearm, Voidchill Darkness, Born of Agony and Amulet of Destiny

3 Ishlaen Guard

10 Reavers 

2 Allopexes w/ Net Launchers

750pts on the dot.

 

Any advice is welcome, I was planning on buying the Broken Realms box.

Solid list at 750. My only suggestion would be to build the King as Volturnos and use him as a King with the sword. The polearm is actually better on the king, but you'll get more mileage out of the model if you can use it as both down the line.

Of course, if your group is chill enough about it, you could just say he has the polearm despite looking like Volturnos. I know I don't have time to build and paint 2 kings, but everyone's different!

[Yziel]

19 minutes ago, Siorra said:

Solid list at 750. My only suggestion would be to build the King as Volturnos and use him as a King with the sword. The polearm is actually better on the king, but you'll get more mileage out of the model if you can use it as both down the line.

Of course, if your group is chill enough about it, you could just say he has the polearm despite looking like Volturnos. I know I don't have time to build and paint 2 kings, but everyone's different!

Maybe it's worth magnetizing the hand if that's the only difference?

[DocKeule]

At least over here the WYSIWYG approach is kind of loose. Nobody insists that a model has to be built with exactly the weapons it is played with any time (I have used my one Eidolon as storm and see in past).

[Rhetoric]

Yeah, especially if you tell your opponent up front and as long as you’re not running a King AND Volturnos, theres no reason to worry.  I’d say go for the rule of cool

[DocKeule]

I stood in for a team tournament yesterday. It went a little better then the last one few weeks ago.

My list:
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Nautilar
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Volturnos, High King of the Deep (260)*
- General
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (330)*
- Artefact: Cloud of Midnight
Isharann Soulscryer (140)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deeps: Tide of Fear
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse

Battleline
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**

Behemoths
Akhelian Leviadon (380)***
- Mount Trait: Ancient
Akhelian Leviadon (380)***

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Alpha-Beast Pack

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 93
Drops: 8

First match was against the Gravelords I didn't do the best job positioning my units. But I think I would have lost any way because the healing, summoning and bringing back models was just overwhelming. I think I chopped the wound profile from his Zombi Dragon about three times still it survived 
 

Spoiler

 

The second game against Lumineth was super close. In the end I won by just one victory point. As expected the mortal wounds spam was the main issue for my army. Other than that he used his cavalry pretty aggressively and consequently lost them within one round. Same with his spearmen.

Spoiler

 

 

Last match was against Sons of Behemoth, all Mega-Gargants. What can I say? Every model of his counted as more models than I had in my whole army, all heroes and all monsters. I managed to kill three of four of the giants but I only scored one points on objectives the whole game. 
 

Spoiler

I am going to play the same list at a two day event next weekend. So there will be five more games for this army.

I am not really sure about the whole deep-striking approach with the Soulsscryer. It keeps the opponent a bit on his toes during deployment and the early rounds but it limits his potential as a priest (and in this case also mage) and the potential of the units that accompany him.

Also I am not completely happy with the Eidolon. The +1 to wound bubble is great but he himself usually does not do too much in combat and still dies rather quickly. 330 points für a buffing unit are a lot. 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by DocKeule

[Drofnum]

When did Eels get -1 rend on their bites?  They dont have it in the old app but the new one does, my warscroll cards dont show a rend either.  Curious how I missed that with how much I played them before covid.

[Sonnenspeer]

27 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

When did Eels get -1 rend on their bites?  

Maybe a mistake in the app or a harbinger of a new Battletome

[Aturox]

So when trying out stormforge for listbuilding i noticed that it mentions specific Comand Traits for my enclave aswell... Maybe a upcoming battletome isnt far off by now

 

[Orbei]

Thanks for the battle report DocKeule! I have a few questions and comments after reading. 

Do you think you got much value from Nautilar compared to going with Dhom-hain? Deep questors would have been a whole lot of rerolls against gargants.

8 drops is a lot. Were you forced to take first turn against the first two armies? Were you double turned turn 2? 

How do you like playing with two turtles? I love them, but it seems like a lot of the points cost is in the auras/force multiplier. 

Did you achieve your grand strategies? Hold the line with only 36 total battle line wounds seems really risky to me. Ishlaen are survivable but not sure if 9 of them is reliable enough. Considering the need to score points, I'd be tempted to either drop a turtle and add more eels to make hold the line more certain, or use the beast transformation spell with a caster and run with the two turtles on turn 1 for a free bonus point.

With your soulscryer being both a priest and wizard I'd definitely start him on the board. Missing any hero phases from him is a lot of value you're giving up. Also, how useful did you find cogs with him?

Nice looking army and tables! Sounds like fun games. That gargant matchup is tough. At least you were able to chop most of them down!

[Nqshou]

Leviadon have currently no save on the app warscroll.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Nqshou

[GrimDork]

13 minutes ago, Nqshou said:

Leviadon have currently no save on the app warscroll.

Think that's because their save worsens as the suffer damage, scroll down and look at the damage table.

[Nqshou]

5 minutes ago, GrimDork said:

Think that's because their save worsens as the suffer damage, scroll down and look at the damage table.

And you are right!

[Orbei]

It is strange that it's indicated with a - rather than *. I believe the revised broken realms warscroll uses a *. Perhaps this indicates that they were fiddling with the warscroll, like copying the scroll and making edits to a new version which is saved elsewhere, and this slipped past. Or could just be a meaningless mistake when they initially made the app scroll no one noticed before!

[GrimDork]

It shows a "0" for me on the app on both phone and tablet (both apple)? Likely just a formatting error?

[Drofnum]

5 hours ago, Aturox said:

So when trying out stormforge for listbuilding i noticed that it mentions specific Comand Traits for my enclave aswell... Maybe a upcoming battletome isnt far off by now

 

It shows this error for SCE armies as well but they have no faction specific command traits or artifacts in the new book.  This one is just a bug I believe, they seem to assume all sub factions for every army require a specific command trait.

[DocKeule]

On 9/26/2021 at 10:33 PM, Sonnenspeer said:

Maybe a mistake in the app or a harbinger of a new Battletome

Since there are no signs of a new book coming any time soon I guess it is a mistake
 

20 hours ago, Orbei said:

Do you think you got much value from Nautilar compared to going with Dhom-hain? Deep questors would have been a whole lot of rerolls against gargants.

 

Being able to re-roll all failed hit rolls helped a lot in the Lumineth game but in the other two I got charged less often than I would have thought. So I might try Dhom-hain in the future.

 

20 hours ago, Orbei said:

8 drops is a lot. Were you forced to take first turn against the first two armies? Were you double turned turn 2? 

I started in the first two games . In the Lumineth game I would have had the second turn but gave it away and got a double turn in the third round. I think the turn 1 initiative has become less important in 3.0. Plus I wanted the extra artifact to make the Soulscryer a wizard. Not sure about that approach any more.

 

20 hours ago, Orbei said:

How do you like playing with two turtles? I love them, but it seems like a lot of the points cost is in the auras/force multiplier. 

I think it works pretty well. Not that much because of the two drum-bubbles (which help as well) but the sturdiness and the output of the turtles. The Leviadons probably did the most work cutting down the bigger units (especially the fin-attacks). 

Rend is an issue with the 2+ and 3+ saves a lot units have now and the turtles offer that reliably. I am thinking about cutting the Eidolon for four sharks to get a little more oomph.
 

20 hours ago, Orbei said:

Did you achieve your grand strategies? Hold the line with only 36 total battle line wounds seems really risky to me. Ishlaen are survivable but not sure if 9 of them is reliable enough. Considering the need to score points, I'd be tempted to either drop a turtle and add more eels to make hold the line more certain, or use the beast transformation spell with a caster and run with the two turtles on turn 1 for a free bonus point.

 

In game two and three I did. In the first game i was tabled. 

But with this list I am struggeling to find a save choice for a grand strategy.
 

22 hours ago, Orbei said:

With your soulscryer being both a priest and wizard I'd definitely start him on the board. Missing any hero phases from him is a lot of value you're giving up. Also, how useful did you find cogs with him?

Frankly they never came up. The game against the SoB was also the only one I got some spells through. With all the bonuses to cast a lot of armies have right now it it kind of hard. 

But other than that I am also considering to start him on the field although that would give my opponent more security in hins positioning. 


 

 

[JackStreicher]

So how many people are still actively playing IDK? I shelled mine due to a lack of diversity and fresh rules…

How do you guys feel about it?

[Siorra]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

So how many people are still actively playing IDK? I shelled mine due to a lack of diversity and fresh rules…

How do you guys feel about it?

I only started collecting them as my second army in mid 2019, and since then Covid happened and I haven't had many chances to play them until recently. Following the lists being played etc. however, I can say that BR: Morathi and AoS3 have really mixed up the lists and how they play quite significantly. Being able to field the exciting centre-piece units like the Leviadon and Eidolon's have really helped them feel way more diverse than pure eel spam. They play the game better instead of just charge and kill, with support pieces, Allopex's and Ishlaen Guard being the main meat of most lists. There's even people saying Reavers are the new hot-stuff, though I'm not brave enough to try it yet.

The army definitely needs some changes in the next book. Rerolls and warscroll command abilities seem to be disappearing with the new tomes, which could be very damaging for what makes Idoneth work on the table, and I'm sure everyone has some wishlist ideas (mine being 5 wound eels for objective capturing, 2" range on Thralls, a rework of Morrsarr MWs and hopefully some new units) but until then, Idoneth seem to be in a good enough place to be fun to play and hold their own.

But that's just me, I'd be interested in hearing what others think. 🙂

[DocKeule]

Here in Germany IDK never really got off the ground. There was a period where they had some presence in the tournament scene but after a short rush following the release there was a wave of second hand sells. 

It is also noticeable in the forums. I am also following the Skaven thread here and the ratio of new postings is like 15:1 or higher in favour of the rats. In German boards it looks pretty of similar.

As far as a wishlist goes 2" reach for Thralls would be pretty high um there. It also would be nice if Soulscyers could pop up anywhere on the board (9" away from enemy units). There is no logical explanation why they couldn't. 

But most IDK players I know are also a little concerned the army might get nerved with a new book.

 

[Sonnenspeer]

From the Harrowdeep WarCom Article:

...a group of Daughters of Khaine. These rebellious aelves didn’t agree with Morathi’s ascent to godhood,** so they formed an alliance with the Idoneth Deepkin...

Another sign for a Aelf Soup Tome?

[Sinbin]

I started IDK and AoS when 3rd edition dropped, but have gotten in a decent amount of games.  Quite enjoy them, reminiscent of Dark Elf Flying Circus lists from 7th and 8th Eds of WFB.  Flying sharks and the utterly shameless edginess of the book make it a wonderful army to paint.  I would say i'm concerned that a new book could shift heavily towards monster mash, would certainly still be in flavor for the faction, and leave Eels in the dust.  More ground-pounders would be welcome, Turtle + Namarti is a solid combo that just needs more pieces to be interesting.  Hard to justify buying 40+ Reavers for anything but tournies as they're a bit on the boring side after the first 10, modelling-wise.

As an aside, i'm currently having trouble justifying running any other subfaction than Fuethain.  The RR1's on T2 even when spread out and RR1's to wound on mounts (makes Turtle an absolute banger) seem hard to give up.  Currently running Allopex/Ishaleen heavy in 1k/1.5k lists.  Getting good results against KO and CoS.  Any thoughts on another subfaction to keep things interesting while not making me wish I had just taken Fuethain?  Playing modestly competitive games where we tinker lists & terrain to better balance games.

[DocKeule]

1 hour ago, Sonnenspeer said:

From the Harrowdeep WarCom Article:

...a group of Daughters of Khaine. These rebellious aelves didn’t agree with Morathi’s ascent to godhood,** so they formed an alliance with the Idoneth Deepkin...

Another sign for a Aelf Soup Tome?

Would surprise me, after DoK just got a new individual book and I especially don't see them folding lumineth into an all aelf faction any time soon.

[HollowHills]

2 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

From the Harrowdeep WarCom Article:

...a group of Daughters of Khaine. These rebellious aelves didn’t agree with Morathi’s ascent to godhood,** so they formed an alliance with the Idoneth Deepkin...

Another sign for a Aelf Soup Tome?

I think it's just mentioning the events of Broken Realms Morathi. 

The last canon story we got with Idoneth had them working with Daughters of Khaine loyal to Morathi. It was a broken realms short story where they kill a Lumineth guy.

[Orbei]

I'd have mixed feelings about becoming part of some sort of naughty elf soup. On the one hand, I like DoK and will be very tempted to get Malerion's elves regardless, if they have an appealing design. It could be a positive as it would encourage players of those armies to add in IDK units as well, and ensure continued support and more models sooner rather than later. On the other hand, it's hard to see it from an aesthetic standpoint. IDK are just so visually distinct. But then again cities of sigmar is a thing..

[HollowHills]

I feel like we might get coalition rules with DoK, at least some of the enclaves might.