Jump to content

AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion


HollowHills

Recommended Posts

I don’t think IDK will get merged with DoK anytime soon.  DoK just got a new book and that would have been the opportunity if any, especially with the events of Broken Realms: Morathi.  I think we are supposed to get used to being neglected just like big pappy Teclis did to us. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If something like that happed it would probably be similar to the Orruk Warclans where all sub-factions work kind of well as a mono-army but the combined allegiance is somewhat wonky and lacks synergies. 

Also designwise I don't see how IDK and DoK (and potencially Lumineth and the Malerion aelfs) would fit together visually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/26/2021 at 10:33 PM, Sonnenspeer said:

Maybe a mistake in the app or a harbinger of a new Battletome

On second thought IDK might be up for a small update in an upcoming Whiute Dwarf. SoB just got one and next moth Seraphon will get some new rules. 

I am curious how they will handle those updates in the app btw. So far I have seen nothing that would make me spend 60 bucks a year für a subscription. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ive only played 1 game of age of sigmar so ive not got much experience at all so any help is greatly appreciated. 

 

I was thinking of a list like this, ive not put enclave as not sure what would suit.

Volturnos 260

Eidolon of the storm

Ishlaen Guard 155

Ishlaen Guard 155

Ishlaen Guard 155

Allopex x2 250

Allopex x2 250

Leviadon 280

Aetherwings 65

2000pts   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like a fun list to me. I'd suggest Dhom-hain. As for Gordrakk, hit him before he hits you! He's decently squishy, given that he's 20 wounds on a 4+ and can't take the amulet of destiny. A generic mawcrusha seems much tankier. If you don't have a good opportunity to get a lot into him at once, just charge a unit of ishlaen in to tie him up. He'll probably kill at least 1 purely with MW, but with all out defense putting you to you to unrendable 2+ on the charge you should keep one alive into the next turn. That would be a big win, tying him up while you get in a good position to focus fire on your next turn. Absolutely don't let him charge a meaty target like 2 allopex or your turtle because he'll go right through them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The turtle, yeah, but not alone. You want to overcommit and make sure the job gets done, as him living on one wound is potentially disasterous. So maybe the turtle plus sharks, turtle some eels and volty.. depends on what you can get in there, but use more than you think you might need. If all you have available to charge is the turtle and a unit of eels, might be better to just send in the eels and bide your time with the turtle. Having a shark sitting idle because you overcommit and it's target is already dead, for example, isn't as bad as him smashing your turtle, healing, and then charging something else. He's comparatively squishy vs equivalent points of brutes or gore gruntas, but his damage output is tremendous. 

Dhom-hain is just a good default choice with bonuses that are generally useful. You have the speed and maneuverability to dictate charges in most cases so will make use of the rerolls to hit, and rerolling wounds (all wounds!) vs monsters is very useful as well. Those are often the priority target and killing them gives you bonus points. Other options aren't bad, but if you're not building for anything specific that's an easy go-to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to kill Godrak I would try to pin him down with a Ishlaen until round three. In the Leviadon's bubble they should be pretty tanky. Then maybe chip some damage off with shooting and then take him with the king, the sharks and the turtle.

But don't forget to play the scenario. Scoring points is much more important in the new edition than killing your opponent's army. You can be tabled and still win the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The picture-problem seems to be worked out.

Now back from the two day tournament by Mini Paradise in Kassel, Germany. Great event with about 60 players.

I was still using this list:
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Nautilar
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Volturnos, High King of the Deep (260)*
- General
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (330)*
- Artefact: Cloud of Midnight
Isharann Soulscryer (140)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deeps: Tide of Fear
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse

Battleline
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**

Behemoths
Akhelian Leviadon (380)***
- Mount Trait: Ancient
Akhelian Leviadon (380)***

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Alpha-Beast Pack

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 93
Drops: 8



Game 1: First Blood against SoB

So I continue where I left off a week earlier. Needless to say this is not my dream matchup. I am given the first turn and secure two objectives  but my opponent pins my center down with his general (-1 to hit, 5+ ward) while the other gargants chip away on my flanks. Also apart from round 1 I am hardly scoring anything.

Spoiler

IMG_20211002_093237649.jpg.c1403652a684be6786120106f9757e94.jpgIMG_20211002_100512054.jpg.e0d521d7adf8b838d2c8b59fd2e1e3b8.jpg


Game 2: Savage Gains against Skaven

Great and very close game against a beautifully painted Skaven army. I try to play aggressivly but especially the heroes evade me by retreating in the combat phase. Especially taking Thanquol down takes me two rounds until I have him finally surrounded. That  gives my  opponent a chance to teleport a unit of clanrats through a gnawhole to my objective. In the end I win by one point. Fun game

Spoiler

IMG_20211002_135659907.jpg.6062bf3ee34949b3ebf296fc50de12e8.jpgIMG_20211002_141106325.jpg.fab3f90d9fedf2e9d26bdd1e7ff336b5.jpgIMG_20211002_143146475.jpg.63f1f11fdc28d3e27d691866e9f1c2d1.jpgIMG_20211002_151932153.jpg.8ab422d16aa11217a4274da6a78923b9.jpg



Game 3: Veins of Ghur and SoB again 🙄

Oh well...first turn we just both do out battle tactic. The first objective falls into a good spot for me and I screen okay. Unfortunately the other two objectives in turn three just fall right before the Gargants feet so I am not scorring too many points in this game.

Spoiler

IMG_20211002_190053365.jpg.200467c76d0766e703d39ac4a707f31a.jpgIMG_20211002_190058549.jpg.d3be46e38c7dad301d5e3eb00c596175.jpgIMG_20211002_182647172.jpg.b29027498b69c3606d2c62eab431cfb7.jpg

 

Second day:

Game 4: Survival of the Fittest against Gravelords

My opponent is playing a more "traditional" list with lots of zombies. Close and fun game. At the end I win by 5 points after I killed all his predator units with mine and score more objective points. On the field in looks a little clearer in my favour especially since he doesn't have much luck bringing back units from his gravesites. 
 

Spoiler

IMG_20211003_111004336.jpg.d049949ef1856dc85df13740ad664ccb.jpgIMG_20211003_102259316.jpg.b7812833362274a264b3d42833442d46.jpgIMG_20211003_091810123.jpg.9f8880a9ea797cdef531445acbae8ff8.jpgIMG_20211003_103727785.jpg.d8954f71912e1c8ac18daacbee39116c.jpgIMG_20211003_102251383.jpg.2d890eb70b9dd0b0eee095a4f6ded2c8.jpg

 


Game 5: Feral Foray and Gravelords again

This time a charatrer heavy army with Manfred, Neferata and Prince Vhordrai and a couple of bloodnight units. In a scenario with three objectives I might have been able to circle the wagons and just hold out but here I have to spread myself thin. Also failing an important charge and forgetting to pile in on the objective I lose valuable points. The saving double turn does not show up and I condede by the end of my turn 4.

 

 

Spoiler

IMG_20211003_140056752.jpg.5813a9ffd87c612db3ac2fee30c09f8d.jpgIMG_20211003_135555591.jpg.e14e86f14243eae8a0a42022f6750eaa.jpg

 


Well I think IDK a slowly losing ground against the newer books. There are a lot of 3+ saves on regular units and even 2+ on leaders. With allout defense and mystic shield etc. and you often have a +2 even with rend. (Somebody said a few days ago somewhere that rend -1 one is the new having no rend and there is something to that.) Especially since you have to declare the target for most battle tactics it is easy to protect them. I had a Leviadon to just 2 damage on a unit ob bloodnights after allout defense and their ward.

 

Edited by DocKeule
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

So I have a question to throw out there which I thought I knew the answer to, until I saw the only Idoneth list used at Mancunian Carnage: https://tabletop.to/mancunian-carnage-resurgence/lists

I thought, as a unique character, that Volturnos did not have access to mount traits, yet the person who brought this list is using Voidchill Darkness on him. Which is correct?

In truth, this doesn't effect 90% of the lists I write because running without a Leviadon seems like a bad move, they have access to very desirable mount traits and I prefer to run one-drop instead of extra enhancements, however it's worth knowing when list building.

I would usually refer to the app for this, which currently shows you can't assign him one. However, the app also doesn't allow you to assign one to the Leviadon, so... 🤷‍♂️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Broken Realms Morathi says that  if your army includes any heros with a deepmare, one can have a Deepmare mount trait. So also Volti

Also a deepmare mount trait does not prevent you from taking a leviadon mount trait

Both points are not in line with the core rules but as far as I know battletome rule overrule the core rules

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After a brief and exciting time playing Skaven, a local league has started up and everyone unanimously voted for me to play Deepkin (my prettiest and also favorite army). And since I'm a total loser who doesn't work today, I'm gonna throw up a couple batreps here and also discuss my Deepkin philosophy and lists. 

Overall, I think Deepkin are a solid A army. They're not the Big 4 (SoB, LRL, DoK, whatever flavor of chaos runs archie/kairos), but they've got the output and movement control to comfortably compete with most everyone else until the new Stormcast start to hit the tables in force. 

Without further ado... 

Deepkin vs Kruleboyz 

 

Deepkin Army:

Spoiler

No photo description available.

Fuethan 2000 points

 

Eidolon with Cloud

Tidecaster general w/ +2 wounds 

2x10 Reavers

1x10 Thralls

 

2x3 Ishlaen

2x2 sharks all with nets

 

Tortle

Everything in BR except for sharks in Hunters for a total of 3 drops. GS is to keep more units alive than my opponent. 

 

Kruleboys 

Spoiler

353599918_kbarmy.jpg.be10c0b57e1ddc8cdeebe7e33fdf70f0.jpg

 

Shooty subfaction

Guy who bubbles out better mortal wounds on a beastie with a shocking number of wounds

2 Shamans for juicing

1 Cave troll hero who is the best character in the faction

 

2x6 Boltboys

2x20 Gutrippaz

 

1x10 hobgoblins

 

Deployment

Spoiler

deployment.jpg.db0667dfa789422f8291360f31451991.jpg

We roll up the predator scenario and I declare the Eidolon, Tortle, and top shark unit. He declares the troll character and the boltboys.

I set up with the classic "thin line of namarti with all the juicy guys right behind so they can't be shot" and he sets up his bunker but makes a huge mistake. I worry he'll notice the mistake and correct it in his pre-game move.

 

Pregame Move

Spoiler

1515667069_Inkedpregamemove_LI.jpg.8232823c6834ca4875d3d49a029fa873.jpg

Nope, instead he doubles down on the mistake and pushes up a screening line of hobgrots. This is not what you should do against deepkin for reasons that will become very clear.

He elects to give me the first turn since his shooting will be completely wasted and if my army gets the double turn into turn 2 then it's basically game over.

I reverse the tides and he is at -1 to wound (thankfully the eidolon buff cancels this out)

 

Deepkin Turn 1

Spoiler

638982815_Inkedendofdeepkin1_LI.jpg.66d550df6c63da3796b84f07fdace48c.jpg

I pick Aggressive Expansion and move up fairly aggressively on the right flank because I knew if I could kill off the troll character then I would completely control roughly half the board.

I used a CP to auto run the sharks 6" thanks to the eidolon and he redeployed his troll 6" away from them, leaving me 9" away from the troll. Unfortunately for him, he moved the troll sideways instead of directly backwards. This meant that I could charge the hobgoblin screen to leverage some additional pile-in movement and then goon the troll.

That's the mistake I noticed during deployment. My whole army flies so if you want to screen me, you need to prevent me from landing. Giving me a speedbump just lets me fly over the screen and then use pile-in to engage stuff that I otherwise wouldn't be able to. PLUS I get the free movement from making the charge that I otherwise wouldn't have.

Ok, so my shooting phase goes ok and I kill 2 boltboyz from the rightmost unit and stop the rightmost guttrippaz unit from piling in, just in case I get a long bomb charge. The troll takes a couple wounds from the reavers.

I end up needing the extra pile-in movement with the Eidolon and shark unit to engage the troll (they both charge the hobgoblins), but I end up getting the eidolon and one shark in attack range. The thralls also charge the hobgoblins.

Turns out I didn't need the shark to engage the troll, since the Eidolon absolutely erases him. The hobgoblins also die.

So end of turn one I score 6 points ( hold one, hold 2, hold more, battle tactics, predator unit kill) 

 

Kruleboyz Turn 1

Spoiler

kb1endreal.jpg.684a88464c8aa7c7c273cdb4edc17bb8.jpg

 

He also declares aggressive expansion.

He moves up to capture the bottom objective and middle objective, but needs to charge in order to get the movement he needs to capture the middle objective. I'm not entirely sure why he didn't run them, but I think he really wanted to maximize his output before I get to fight first with my whole army.

He shoots and removes 10 reivers and a unit of 3 eels with mortal wounds alone. Those boltboyz are no joke!

He charges, gets the movement he needs to tag the thralls without engaging the eidolon, but only kills one while losing 3 gutrippaz in return.

He scores 5 points (hold one, hold 2, hold more, battle tactic)

And then the roll for turn 2... I win priority and we both know that's pretty much the ball game. But let's see how it goes!

 

Deepkin Turn 2 (well, most of a turn)

Spoiler

340374626_Inkedwhenthegamewascalled_LI.jpg.32494682e8ed2c595afa8825e115639b.jpg

I declare conquer for posterity.

I move up the eidolon around his flank and bring up my whole army to get ready for the mass charges.

Shooting removes the rightmost boltboy unit.

Charges come and I charge the back shaman with the eidolon. I end my charge movement within 3" of the other boltboy unit and my opponent insists that they are therefore unable to unleash hell. This was pretty clearly a misinterpretation of the rule, but since it didn't matter and the salt levels were rising, I let him have it. (I would have just popped the cloud of midnight at the start of the charge phase to make the eidolon untargetable anyways).

At this point my opponent calls the game, as I was about to slam him with my entire army thats striking first and he had no way to really cause damage, as everything he had was about to die except ironically the shamans and leftmost gutrippa unit.


DEEPKIN WIN!

 

Yep, this is my bully list that I think is one of the better lists available to the army at this time. To be fair, this is a terrrrrible matchup for the Kruleboyz shooting army but that's what happens when you lean heavy into a skew list and why I always build TAAC. Ok, time for the second battle report. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Deepkin vs. Lumineth 

Alrighty time for a classic showdown against our most hated foe! 

Deepkin Army:

Spoiler

1643949762_deepkinarmy.jpg.eabbdeff4e6e1108b6ecf733333cc9c5.jpg

Ionrach Enclave

 

Tidecaster General w/ +2 wounds

Eidolon with cloud 

Soulscryer w/curse

 

10 Reavers

10 Reavers

10 Thralls

 

2 Sharks w/nets

GOTREK

 

Tortle

 

That's right, I'm trying out one of the classic Deepkin power builds with the angriest little dwarf around. It's a one-drop list that reverses the tides and hits people with Gotrek real quick while outflanking the tortle and sharks to guarantee me a nice juiced charge for everyone (except gotrek). 

 

Lumineth army 

Spoiler

1478834152_lrlarmy.jpg.70dd892f3b1888e6e68f42defc5db06d.jpg

My opponent brings the Deepkin's most hated foe... Teclis...

He takes:

Teclis
Sevireth

20 Wardens
20 Sentinels
5 Blademasters

Ballista

Umbral Spellportal

Basically a classic castle plus Sevireth. I think I'm really quite favored here, as Deepkin love busting castles and I can guarantee that my Leviadon and Sharks are immune to damage for the first turn. He's got one extremely mobile model but I don't really have to worry about being move-blocked and can just kill everything else. 

 

Deployment

Spoiler

deployment.jpg.34430f6a3f78d85832a9c47f7d207ab0.jpg

 

We roll up Apex Predators (only leaders can capture objectives) which is actually kind of a problem for this list since Gotrek isn't a leader.

I deploy so that the Eidolon and Tidecaster will be able to get two objectives and pretty much decide to not even worry about stopping sevireth from getting his.

Sharks and Leviadon go into reserve and I give my opponent the first turn!

 

LRL Turn 1ish

Spoiler

555036782_Inkedenddeepkinmovement_LI.jpg.cf39a0d717275f0aaf6ce41545b10adf.jpg

So this picture is actually at the end of my movement phase...

Here's what happened in his turn!

He declared broken ranks on the left reaver unit and magics everyone for a few mortal wounds here and there. The spears shuffle up to try and keep me off the objective in the middle. Sevireth takes the top objective and then runs behind the bladelords.

He shoots the left reavers to death and does like 6 wounds to the right unit.

I move up, dispel umbral spellportal with my mighty deepkin magic phase. I auto run Gotrek 6" and he redeploys the spearmen 5" backwards to make me work for the 8" charge. This allows me to sneak the tidecaster onto that center objective.

I then bring on the sharks and tortle, declaring his spearmen to be my target for the soulscryer.

It's charge time... 

 

Deepkin Turn 1 (through the Charge phase)

Spoiler

371782909_Inkedenddeepkincharge_LI.jpg.afd55b6c057b051b0912787b4c6f1334.jpg

 

Eidolon, Gotrek, and the Tortle make their charges, with the Tortle also engaging the sentinels for good measure because that's how it goes.

His stand and shoot does like 3 wounds to the Eidolon.

Well, time for the Deepkin to do what they do

 

Deepkin Turn 1 (the chomp phase)

Spoiler

615704132_Inkedendcombatt1_LI.jpg.2fa63041c2f2b2e5184fdd15152079be.jpg

Annnnnd all the sentinels and wardens die horribly.

I then get the double turn and we call it.



DEEPKIN VICTORY


That's kinda how the Deepkin play. It's just so hard to deal with their alpha strike and getting the double turn into high tide is pretty much an auto-win.

I think I'll go back to my Fuethan list since that's more my style, but with a couple changes since I very much like having the soulscryer around and think that Gotrek isn't really worth taking Ionrach (although without Ionrach he's not nearly as good).

MVP is obviously Gotrek but the Eidolon put in some good work too!

 

 

 

Edited by vinnyt
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried to take a couple different lists to highlight a few ways I think Deepkin can be played in 3.0. If you look at the lists that have been doing well in tournaments recently, there's really a few distinct power builds. 

 

Build #1:

Fuethan with Eidolon, 2 Leviadons, Tidecaster general, flavor to taste. 

Jon Anderson took this one at the Michigan GT and it's a doinker for sure. Two tortles are just incredible in Fuethan (as is the whole army you should always take fuethan imo) and the Eidolon is basically an auto-include for the +1 wound bubble alone. He filled out the rest of the list with sharks and min battleline reavers. 

This list obviously wins on damage output and boy oh boy does it do a lot of it. 

Build #2

Fuethan with Eidolon, 1 Leviadon, Akhelian King, 5 singleton sharks, no eels

Jake L'Ecuyer also took this to the MI GT and it's got the staples we love to see (Eidolon, Leviadon, and sharks) mixed up with a Very Tanky King (amulet and voidchill darkness). The King is a pretty sweet pick with the ability to tank a surprising amount of damage and the school of singleton sharks really helps lock down board control

Build #3

Fuethan with Eidolon, 1 Leviadon, Gotrek, one unit of 30 reavers, and a soulscryer. 

Didn't save the name of the guy who ran this list but it's another classic damage Deepkin list with the obligatory Eidolon and Leviadon but also with the early 3.0 reaver squad. Gotrek in Fuethan is probably what I would definitely do now, as Ionrach just isn't worth it since you give up all the incredible Fuethan buffs. Weak spot here is the soulscryer needing to be within 9" to curse a unit and him being outrageously squishy. All in all, it's got Gotrek, a leviadon, and an Eidolon so it's gonna absolutely ruin people. 

Build #4 

Dhom-Hain with Eidolon, 2 Leviadons, Volturnos, and 2x3 morrsarr with a single net shark

Also neglected to save the owner's name but here's our second iteration of the double leviadon damage list. This time it's even more all in on the smackdown with a net shark and 3 ishlaen to babysit objectives while you throw 2 tortles and a leviadon at people. Morrsarr definitely took a big hit in 3.0 and I personally don't like them, but when they're fast battleline that can easily wipe out screens/wizards and absolutely must be dealt with, they're pretty tasty. 

 

So, after spending too much time looking at these armies and the competitive meta, it's pretty clear that there's a pretty crystalized competitive core for Deepkin. 

Step one: Add an Eidolon of the Storm and a Leviadon to your list. That's roughly 700 auto-include points. 

Step two: You'll need at least 2 more hammer units. Personally, I consider anything that can do roughly 2 sharks worth of damage to be a hammer unit. With the extra bite and fuethan/Eidolon buffs, 2 sharks will reliably do around 10 wounds through a 3+ armor save. And by reliably, I mean your variance is almost nill across the entire army. With very few exceptions, you should be looking at 3+rr1/2+rr1 for every mount attack with the potential to use all out attack for a 2+rr1 to hit. At that point you're looking at upper 90% reliability in converting attacks to wounding hits. The only variance should be in your opponent's armor saves. But I digress. 

Hammer units can be things like: Gotrek, 30 reavers + soulscryer, 2 man shark units, leviadons, and/or morrsarr. It's not really super important what you pick, but you'll want at least 4 total units that can erase models from your opponent. 

Step three: Pick battleline. This will likely be 3x10 reavers or something costing about that amount (I prefer 2x10 reavers and 1x10 thralls because thralls actually do a huge amount of damage if they're ignored). If you like eels, then you know what to do. Personally, I'm moving ever further away from eels. They're not as tanky as they once were and I just haven't gotten good results from morrsarr. Plus battleline is (probably) what will be holding home objectives and screening your backfield. You want things that you're comfortable not throwing forward and will still accrue value. 

Step four: S Y N E R G Y. Ok so you've got 4 hammers that will take opponent's objectives and kill stuff. You've got some cheap chaff for screening/home objective holding. What needs to be considered now? I tend to think about board control, magic, and random bs.

Board control is usually super easy for deepkin given our unbelievable speed. That being said, board control means screening out deep strike crip ****** and that's where inexperienced players straight up lose the game. On the new small board, it's extremely simple to screen out basically any deepstriker from places you don't want them to go. If you make sure that your entire army is with 18" of at least one or two other friendly units and/or a board edge (AFTER YOUR OPPONENT'S HERO PHASE), then you will never worry about deepstrike ever. 

Magic is our weak point. It's absolutely something that we lose against without fail. I recently learned that there are things called "universal command traits" and that I can take one on a tidecaster to let them reroll dispels. Immediate take. Lots of folks like running arcane tome on an eidolon which is a super reasonable pick and lets you guarantee that you'll be in dispel range of what you want to remove and that a cheeky flaming sword or mystic shield might happen. But I'm the kind of guy who hates rolling dice in a dice game and much prefers to just tell my opponent with almost complete certainty what's going to happen. This means that I like to tech HEAVILY against

Random bs. I'm talking belakor shutting something down. I'm talking kairos spawning stuff while archie does the jillion things he does. I'm talking orruks moving every model every phase for free with 150 point pig units that are just unbelievably good. And then, of course, there's the getting double turned. There's a lot of random bs in the game and that's the deepkin kryptonite. So how do we deal with it. There are a couple ways. Most obviously is to kill it with your overwhelming speed before it has a chance to go off. Then there's my personal favorite- the cloud of midnight. This little artifact lets you ignore an instance of random bs and is a real bacon saver. Oh, I got double turned and hit with a stonehorn/mawkrusha/archaon? Pop the cloud and retreat/charge away later. Oh, you charge into a group of boltboyz? Good thing you popped the cloud so no unleashing hell on you! The cloud lets your Eidolon merrily zoom around doing whatever they want and most importantly, forces your opponent to play around you popping the cloud. Disrupting your opponent's line of play is how I classify the cloud of midnight and why I take it in all my lists. Deepkin win or lose in the first few turns so it being a one use only item has never been a problem. Plus, Deepkin are the OG play disrupters with Forgotten Nightmares, allowing you to comfortably not have to worry about shooting skew builds. 

 

Alright, so how do you put this together in an army? Well internal monologue, I'm glad you asked! Here's my current favorite deepkin list and why I did what I did. 

Fuethan- obvious choice for guaranteed reliability in hammer damage output and the absurd speed bonus

Eidolon of the Storm w/Cloud of Midnight- second best model in our battletome and the disrupting beatstick we know and love

Tidecaster General w/ Master of Magic and Arcane Corrosion- Reversing the tides guarantees I'll be maximizing my damage on turns 1-3 and on the small board it's impossible to hide from me. Honestly after they've reversed the tides and maybe cast mystic shield on the eidolon turn one, their job is to sit in my backfield, stop deepstrikers, and help cap home objectives. Plus they make reavers battleline which is actually extremely useful. 

 

2x10 Reavers- Very fast, fairly shooty, and don't mind sitting on home objectives/dying as a screen. Since everything flies, reavers never box in my army and help provide that turn one forgotten nightmares target lock that's just unbelievably helpful. Plus they're cheap.

10 Thralls- Another chaff unit that I don't really care if they die. If they get ignored though... Against infantry I can usually get like 7 or so in combat for 22 attacks. Then I pop all out attack or have them target an enemy by the tortle and let the 2srr1/2s/-1/1 go brrrrrr as they erase most things on a native 4+ save. Or they get shot and obliterated. Oh well, they're cheap and just handy to have around. They're great to help deal with horrors. 

 

2x2 Sharks w/3 nets and a harpoon- 2 hammer units that are extremely quick, don't bracket, and cement board control by preventing pile ins so I can cheekily engage your scary varanguard with my leviadon and you get exactly 1 guy fighting back. The harpoon is there to plink wounds off of units the sharks are gonna engage to ensure I get my extra bite. I want that bonus bite reallllly badly. And if my opponent wants to all out defense a unit against 4 wee shots, then that's a win in my book. 

2x3 Ishlaen- ok so they're still pretty good. Tortle gives em bonuses to save and they're very very quick. Great for sniping objectives off of small chaff unit/5 wound wizards and also downright necessary to roadblock the Big Bads that don't spit out a thousand mortal wounds. Plus you can use all out defense to get them back to the glory days. They're fantastic second line screens and help immensely with board control (line them up sideways- you're still in coherency but your footprint is insane) 

 

Leviadon w/ancient- The best model in the army by far. All my opponents know it's coming and every time it still rampages through their army. A case could easily be made to drop the ishlaen units and a shark to take a second leviadon but I personally like the extra units for now. Plus I think the ignoring rend -1 is a large part of the tortle's survivability against most armies. Ah, who am I kidding- I'll probably take a second at some point. It's just that good. 

 

I put everything into a Battle regiment except the two shark units because I like hunters of the heartlands to stop things like roar and stomp. All out attack/defense is really important on a shark unit. Unfortunately this does take me to a 3 drop list, which is two more drops than I prefer to have. Being able to dictate first turn and threaten a double is absolutely vital for disrupting your opponent's game plan and often times they'll expect me to give them first turn (as in the Kruleboyz game) and then I'll take it instead and immediately rip through their army. 

So, to summarize, this army has the Damage (sharks, eidolon, leviadon). It has separate units dedicated to Board Control (eels, reavers, thralls). 

It deals with Magic as best it can with a rerollable dispel and through targeting wizards with cheap ishlaen/hammers.

And it approaches random bs by disrupting the opponent in a number of ways (determining turn order, reversing the tides, cloud of midnight), and through insanely reliable damage spikes on turns 1-3. 

Things this army struggles against:

Bulwarks: These are things that simply refuse to die to conventional damage. Deepkin have generally poor MW output so things that get to 2+rerollable or just 2+saves can be quite problematic (OBR, Annihilators, varanguard). Sons of Behemat are also extremely difficult to deal with since you can't cheese objectives off of them and they're absurdly tanky. You just have to yolo your hammers in there and win the slugfest as fast as you can. Otherwise using the shark nets to stop pile ins while you pin them with Ishlaen is the way to go. Nothing more annoying than me charging your varanguard bus turn one with ishlaen, tagging one model to stop pile-ins, surviving until my next turn, and then retreating 3.5" away from you so that by the end of your second turn the varanguard have moved forward 3" and killed a single ishlaen unit while the rest of your army is dead.

Mortal Wounds (Magic): This has always been a huge problem for deepkin and what keeps us from joining the S-tier. We don't produce many and we don't really survive against them. Eidolon is fairly tanky with a free 5+ ward but the tortle goes down quick to nagash Arcane Bolt-a-thons. MW shooting is easily ignored. Gotrek is a great way to tech in absurd MW output but he's slow. Classic trade-off. Our magic is generally terrible and I still have no idea why Eidolon of the Sea is more points than the Storm. 

 

If you've read this all the way to the end, I hope it's proven a little helpful. Deepkin are in a pretty darn good place imo and with the right matchups I could see them winning some big tournaments. I've got a charity 3 round tourney on 11/7 coming up and I'm taking a fun double Eidolon (storm) list today against probably slaanesh. I'll try and put the batreps here but if I forget they'll be on my hobby fb page.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2
  • LOVE IT! 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the Slaanesh report! Pretty much went exactly how one might expect. 

 

Deepkin vs Slaanesh 2k

 

Deepkin army:

Spoiler

1387753972_deepkinarmy2eidolon.jpg.e044f5edcc86d59be87fa621d5c2946d.jpg

Fuethan

Eidolon w/Cloud
Eidolon
Tidecaster w/ master of magic

2x10 Reavers
1x10 Thralls

2x2 Sharks

Leviadon

 

 

Slaanesh Army

Spoiler

1915639314_2-qiy89iw.jpg.65337e7f209fbaadd3edbe065f389c0c.jpg

My opponent brought his Slaanesh monster mash list full of special characters

Ssyl-eske or whatever the spelling is
Dyxcessa
The other twin
Keeper of Secrets
Sigvald

2x5 cavalry battleline guys
1x10ish archers

Cogs

He's been running this sort of list to pretty good effect. The damage output can be pretty insane and if you don't cripple him early, the summoning spirals out of control.

 

Deployment:

Spoiler

deployment.jpg.a56094c9db6158b7c9080b8d1ed1a573.jpg

We roll up Power in Numbers which is actually a scenario I haven't played before in my 20-ish games of 3.0. Not that it matters because I'm playing Deepkin and their approach to objectives is basically "murder everything immediately and then worry about objectives"

He redeploys his archers and sigvald off the table.

I give him first turn

 

Slaanesh Turn 1:

Spoiler

2088271012_slaaneshmarked1.jpg.42ac8b66ab1031b096e0ec809875cb73.jpg

He does the smart thing and declares ferocious advance with the 3 monsters to get the extra point.

Magic does like 3 wounds to the tortle and otherwise he pushes up to a fairly defensible position.

Sigvald and the archers come in, the archers shoot a few reavers and sigvald charges and erases a reaver unit.

 

Deepkin Turn 1:

Spoiler

225803870_deepkin1mark.jpg.39ec34ec01aa4b1f7461320661760821.jpg

 

Blah blah blah ok time to erase the opponent's army. I declare broken ranks on the far right unit of horse guys.

Magic gives the right eidolon metamorphosis.

I move up super fast, sending the tortle to smash sigvald to death while the left shark unit and cloud eidolon move up to remove the horse screen and prepare for the counterpunch (should it happen). The cloud of midnight is basically there in case things get too dicey, but since I always strike first next turn, I'm not too worried.

Shooting puts a smattering of wounds on people.

Combat goes about as expected, Sigvald, all the horse guys, and the archers all die horrible deaths. I do about 5 wounds to ssyl'eske who then fights twice with the help of the Keeper of Secrets and kills a shark. Then I roll a 6 for battleshock and the other shark runs away!!

Very unexpected but I'm in a great place no matter who goes next. He's pinned in that center area and can't really break out without fighting me and I control most of the objectives which means I can burn them later on for big points. He has no way to threaten my home objectives and will have to fight dearly to keep his remaining ones.

But then I win priority and therefore the game because that's how deepkin work. 

 

Deepkin Turn 2:

Spoiler

1911918732_deepkin2.jpg.56edbc6f90a0f4d5e1df3e7a1bfd6779.jpg

 

I declare bring it down on the fighty twin and then proceed to kill every remaining model except his keeper of secrets.

I hold every objective and burn the far left one on his end so that his summoned unit (he has 10 depravity points) can't get that objective.

 

Slaanesh Turn 2:

Spoiler

501315758_7-6tvA2CT.jpg.9e03311994e9a87c0472a975423dddee.jpg

He bravely suicide charges the keeper into the absurd beast pocket I've set up.

The keeper dies and it's an overwhelming...

DEEPKIN VICTORY

So yeah, extremely straightforward Deepkin game. Once you get the movement down and make sure you coordinate the auras of your synergy pieces, it's really a very simple army to play and one that just absolutely wins about 40% of the time if you go second.

Double turning an opponent into high tide is one of the strongest swings in age of sigmar and kind of a feelsbad moment to play against. This was a fairly competitive slaanesh list and it just got blown out without really any chance to counterplay

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@vinnyt Really nice write up and synopsis.  I really like that you’ve moved away from Volturnos/King and Morrsarr.  My painted IDK is mostly all Akhelian units, but I really see the value in a more even spread of units.  I think Morrsarr have lost an insane amount of value in 3.0.  Especially when you look at GoreGruntas.  I like the Tidecaster general and Eidolon for heroes.  I also really like the 2x2 sharks with a harpoon/net in each unit.  It’s enough decent shooting with the Leviadon to kill a stupid fox here and there.  And hitting people with nets and tagging Ishlaen is so, so strong.  There’s so much more to this army than Volturnos and Morrsarr oops all eels 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Rhetoric said:

@vinnyt Really nice write up and synopsis.  I really like that you’ve moved away from Volturnos/King and Morrsarr.  My painted IDK is mostly all Akhelian units, but I really see the value in a more even spread of units.  I think Morrsarr have lost an insane amount of value in 3.0.  Especially when you look at GoreGruntas.  I like the Tidecaster general and Eidolon for heroes.  I also really like the 2x2 sharks with a harpoon/net in each unit.  It’s enough decent shooting with the Leviadon to kill a stupid fox here and there.  And hitting people with nets and tagging Ishlaen is so, so strong.  There’s so much more to this army than Volturnos and Morrsarr oops all eels 

absolutely agree. Honestly I was never really sold on Morrsarr after the Morathi changes. I do think there's a place for Morrsarr in an Akhelian king-centric list since they take up a battleline slot but I don't think they really deserve a place at the non-battleline hammer discussion. 

I talk a little about hammer units but here's a bit deeper analysis. There are really 4 hammer units in our army: Morrsarr, Sharks, Leviadon, and the Eidolon of the Storm. These units deal damage and in the case of the Eidolon and tortle, provide enormous army-wide buffs which is what makes one of each an auto-include. 

So, what's the damage cut-off for each hammer? When I'm thinking about Deepkin hammer units, I can safely assume that I will be hitting at maximum efficiency. There really isn't going to be time for an opponent to remove my synergy pieces before I'm in combat and so I run the math as though I'm in Flood Tide (rr1s to hit and mounts get rr1s to wound) and in range of the Eidolon's buff (+1 to wound).

With that in mind, the math turns out roughly as follows (data is presented as wounds through a 2+/3+/4+/5+ save):

Tortle does 9/13/17/21 for 380

Eidolon does 6/9/11/14 for 330

2 Sharks with 4 bites apiece do 8.6/12/15/18 for 250

6 Morrsarr on the charge not using blast do 11.5/17.3/23/29 for 390 (assuming all 6 get all their attacks, which is unlikely)

6 Morrsarr not having charged and not using blast do 4.4/9/13/18 for 390 (assuming all 6 get all their attacks, which is unlikely)

So, breaking it down to the amount of points it costs for each wound you inflict (damage efficiency), you get:

Tortle: 42/29/22/18

Eidolon: 55/37/30/23.6

Sharks: 29/21/17/14

6 Morrsarr on charge: 34/22.5/17/13.4

6 Morrsarr not charging: 87/43/30/22

 

The most efficient damage dealers we have against the most important save profiles (2+, 3+, 4+) are a unit of 2 sharks clocking in at 250 points. Although their absolute damage output isn't as good as the Morrsarr on the charge or the tortle, the sharks are much more efficient, which is the most important thing for an army that doesn't really care about sequencing combats since high tide will be turn 2. 

What really kills the Morrsarr for me is their relative squishiness (4+ save ew), relatively poor non-charging stats, and the coherency issues they have to deal with as a 6 man squad. The ideal situation is sort of what I did in my last battle report against slaanesh. Even had I lost the roll for priority on turn 2, what was he going to charge? The whole army strikes first and no matter what he engaged, he was gonna have to take a LOT of very high damage attacks. Morrsarr present an obvious and expensive target for a turn 2 counterpunch that just isn't necessary. There are very few situations where I think 6 Morrsarr provide more utility than another leviadon or 3 sharks. 

This also brings me into another fairly important topic. The General

In the olden days, Volty and eels were the obvious choice. But now, we live with short boards and eels who can't get 2+ unrendable saves. It is absolutely paramount that deepkin be able to obliterate large swathes of the opposing army before they're able to establish objective control and/or start chiseling away our units. The sooner you get to high tide, the sooner you win. 

The other sneaky truth is that reavers are really really really really good in Fuethan near an eidolon. They do roughly 2/4/6/8 wounds with 30 shots and provide a quick speedbump/screen that will fairly reliably one shot a 5 wounds 5+ save caster. They also move 8" and get to reroll run rolls so will absolutely get where they need to go. 

The Tidecaster general provides both a faster high tide and battleline reavers PLUS can take master of magic as a command trait for fairly reasonable anti-magic.

And, to really cement the place of the tidecaster as my preferred general, they do it for way, way cheaper. A king and 3 minimum units of ishlaen will run you 725 points. A tidecaster, 2 reavers, and a thrall unit (my preferred configuration) clock in at 455. That's a 2 shark difference for MORE utiity.  The difference only gets bigger if you take volturnos and a 6 man morrsarr.

Volty, 2x3 ishlaen, 6 morrsarr= 960 points

King, 3x3 ishlaen = 725 points

Tidecaster, 2x10 reavers, 1x10 thralls = 455 points

Considering the importance of an Eidolon and leviadon, you've sort of painted yourself into a slower tempo corner with the Akhelian general, whereas the tidecaster lets you take even more hammers and escalate the game tempo to where really nobody can keep up except for mega gargants because their book is just rude. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whenever I'm writing lists now, like has already been said, I find it very hard to include Morrsarr. The only time I feel it's "worth doing" is taking 1x3 or 1x6 with a Soulscryer, and in most cases I just opt for the 1x3. Now, spending 335 points on an alpha strike is probably bad damage per points on paper, however I find the value in making your opponent reconsider their deployment and use resources protecting their small (10 or less wounds) heroes is quite worthwhile. As @vinnyt said, it's just another avenue of "disrupting your opponent's line of play".

Saying this, I really hope Morrsarr get a rework in the next book. At this pricepoint there's really no reason their Biovoltaic Blast ability should be once per game. Considering we're likely to lose all of our RR1's next book, we'll need the boost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...