Tournaments and the GHB21/3.0 Core rules

[Doko]

On 7/7/2021 at 10:01 PM, stratigo said:

Bad monsters are worse then no monsters

100% this.

City of sigmar have many monsters,but are hugely underpower. In 2.0 you could bring them because at worst what you loose?you are spending 300 points in a monster that his real cost must be 250, so it isnt a big lost,but in 3.0 if you bring your weaks monsters you are gifting your rival broken turtle the game giving free victory points.

Agree with the original autor,this monster edition rules are stupid and i would prefer play with yours old 2.0 battlepacks than the news that are only for the big overpowers behemots(turtle,gordrak,morathi,archaon,cows\teclis,giants etc)

 

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

100% this.

City of sigmar have many monsters,but are hugely underpower. In 2.0 you could bring them because at worst what you loose?you are spending 300 points in a monster that his real cost must be 250, so it isnt a big lost,but in 3.0 if you bring your weaks monsters you are gifting your rival broken turtle the game giving free victory points.

 

I think you already made this argument elsewhere, and the reactions to that topic still stand.

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/27801-every-cos-behemot-is-useless/

Anointed on Phoenixes are very good (and for some reason, now cheaper) and their survivability, surpassed only by the god-level models, means you're not giving VPs away too easily. General on gryph and Dreadlord on black dragon are decent, even more so with access to the amulet of destiny. If you are not satisfied you can pick from Sylvaneth, Stormcast, Lumineth... or even Mortahi herself (although Har Kuron is arguably Cities-adjacent).

EDIT: ooor, invest in magic and make your own monster with Gotrek and metamorphosis

Edited July 9, 2021 by Marcvs

[Ragest]

My community is in love with the new system of scoring, that rewards dynamic players more than boring blobs of full buffed stuff, same with the realm rules.

We are enjoying a lot more this edition than the end of second.

[Doko]

24 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

think you already made this argument elsewhere, and the reactions to that topic still stan

Yes,and as i said i had the reason,cos behemots were overcosted.

Gw have nerfed every monster with this faq but cos monsters were buffed,so seems my post had sense even if any didnt knew read mathammers seems gw new algorit for points is more acurate than old

[Marcvs]

4 minutes ago, Doko said:

Yes,and as i said i had the reason,cos behemots were overcosted.

Gw have nerfed every monster with this faq but cos monsters were buffed,so seems my post had sense even if any didnt knew read mathammers seems gw new algorit for points is more acurate than old

the point in your post was about being "hugely underpowered". Are the anointed on phoenixes hugely underpowered? (or any of the monsters you can bring in from other BTs while getting your own allegiance abilities)

[Doko]

Yes and we got some buff of almost 10%(battlemage in gryfom) while others behemots got 10% or even more increases. So that is a 20% of diference,i think is pretty huge,and to me cos behemots are overcosted yet even by other 20%

But i wont post it again because this discusion isnt about how bad are cos monsters is about how the 3.0 rules does good monsters better and bad monsters worse that is a faill as balance

[Sleboda]

On 7/5/2021 at 3:32 AM, Kiekeboe said:

Hey all, I wanted to pick your brains on something. I've been seeing some local tournament organizers say "I think the new GHB focuses way too much on Monsters so I'm going to host my tournament with the GHB21 battleplans, but take battle tactics and grand strategies from the core book instead", for example. How would you all feel about this?

Those would  be events I'd skip. I mean, come on. Give it a fair shake. This is the same thing that has kept me from attending a number of events in the past. A well-meaning TO dislikes, for example, shooting, believing that combat is "real" Warhammer. So he adds scenarios that cut ranges in half. He has no clue that he's messing things up (unintended  consequences and all that), but he is. So I pass. Gimme the game I bought, not the one you think I should own instead.

I gotta tip my cap to the brilliance of the new Battlepack concept. It really allows GW to iterate the game yearly without making actual new editions. For one year cycles, everyone can be on the same page, playing in homogenized experiences across the globe, giving GW valuable insight into what is and is not working/liked.

Then, to start a new year/season, all they have to do is put out the next Generals Handbook with new ideas.

If this refines the game mid-edition and delays having to redo the whole game, including Battletomes*, then I'm 100% on board.

 

*Let's face it. The PR that "all current Battletomes" are good to go in the new refund edition is, to put it delicately, a massive stretch. Entire sections are being deleted. Tons of stuff gets replaced. Some things (*cough* Bonereapers *cough cough*) are essentially being given the "too bad, so sad" treatment. These Battletomes are not what can reasonably be called "compatible" in any workable sense of the word, anymore that a car can be called compatible with flooded roads. Yeah, you can still technically put the car on the road, but unless you do some serious modification, it's not gonna work out well for the car.

 

 

 

[Sleboda]

On 7/6/2021 at 6:43 AM, Maddpainting said:

When people don't look at all the pieces and tries to make house rules it sets up a bad habit and understanding of the game that then also influence other actions later as well, its very bad for the game.

QFT.

So many people are so hung up on "you must kill lots to win."

Nope. Play the actual game, folks, not what you think the game should be.

[Baron Klatz]

I'll be interested to see what happens after the dust settles and see which is the more popular "monster aid" option between hiring a Mega-gargant merc or turning heroes into wizards to turn other heroes into monsters. (Between this and the float spell I wonder how much Final Fantasy the devs played before writing the rules. )

On 7/9/2021 at 6:38 AM, The Red King said:

I don't really have a problem with the GHB21 realm rules but does this mean it will be 7 years before we see the other 8 realms (and possibly one for chaos) because then I'll just assume we will never see all of them. 

Now if GHB22/23 has 3 realms each then we could conceivably get a final expansion with Azyr and realm of chaos right before 4th edition.

Alternatively the other realms could come in BR style supplements but assuming each "season" is supposed to be themed I cant really see that happening.

This is my question too.

Since it's "Era of the Beast" I could see Ghur, Ghyran and Aqshy being the main Realm rules while the other realm rules end up in campaign books as optional plays like paths that branch off from the main campaign if they don't cram.

Because like we've already had chaos realmscape rules with Wrath  of the Everchosen (Nurgle spores deterring flyers was neat) and Teclis' BR book has rules for fighting amidst the mountains of Ymetrica so it's not out of the question for campaign books entirely focused on more realmscape depth for both Matched & Narrative while the Ghb's make a smaller clear line of Matched Requirement Realmscapes.

[stratigo]

On 7/9/2021 at 12:47 PM, Doko said:

100% this.

City of sigmar have many monsters,but are hugely underpower. In 2.0 you could bring them because at worst what you loose?you are spending 300 points in a monster that his real cost must be 250, so it isnt a big lost,but in 3.0 if you bring your weaks monsters you are gifting your rival broken turtle the game giving free victory points.

Agree with the original autor,this monster edition rules are stupid and i would prefer play with yours old 2.0 battlepacks than the news that are only for the big overpowers behemots(turtle,gordrak,morathi,archaon,cows\teclis,giants etc)

 

Nah, Pheonixes get there. They quite good 

 

On 7/10/2021 at 6:58 PM, Baron Klatz said:

I'll be interested to see what happens after the dust settles and see which is the more popular "monster aid" option between hiring a Mega-gargant merc or turning heroes into wizards to turn other heroes into monsters. (Between this and the float spell I wonder how much Final Fantasy the devs played before writing the rules. )

This is my question too.

Since it's "Era of the Beast" I could see Ghur, Ghyran and Aqshy being the main Realm rules while the other realm rules end up in campaign books as optional plays like paths that branch off from the main campaign if they don't cram.

Because like we've already had chaos realmscape rules with Wrath  of the Everchosen (Nurgle spores deterring flyers was neat) and Teclis' BR book has rules for fighting amidst the mountains of Ymetrica so it's not out of the question for campaign books entirely focused on more realmscape depth for both Matched & Narrative while the Ghb's make a smaller clear line of Matched Requirement Realmscapes.

No one, and I mean no one, is hiring a megagargent competetively.

[Kiekeboe]

On 7/9/2021 at 3:38 PM, The Red King said:

I don't really have a problem with the GHB21 realm rules but does this mean it will be 7 years before we see the other 8 realms (and possibly one for chaos) because then I'll just assume we will never see all of them. 

Now if GHB22/23 has 3 realms each then we could conceivably get a final expansion with Azyr and realm of chaos right before 4th edition.

Alternatively the other realms could come in BR style supplements but assuming each "season" is supposed to be themed I cant really see that happening.

I don't think we'll get all 8 if each one is going to be a year. Instead of seeing this year as "the Ghur year" I like to see it as "the year of the Monster". If next year is going to be "the year of Magic" it could take place in Hysh, Aqshy, and Shyish (just naming random realms here, you get the idea). That's what I hope at least. So far I'm really loving this battle pack setup.

[Kiekeboe]

On 7/9/2021 at 10:05 PM, Sleboda said:

 Gimme the game I bought, not the one you think I should own instead.

If a local TO actually does go through with not using sections of the GHB I'm stealing this line right here. Spot on.

[Dingding123]

I have over 2k pts of Gitz goodies (mostly elites+heroes), no monsters, plus going in blind I'd actually rather invest more into battleline instead of a big fat model.  But if I'm sacrificing up to FIVE! VP without one what I'd like to do becomes pretty difficult to justify. 

Well, do I get the goofy Aleguzzler 'cause it's cheap, dump 300 pts in a Loonboss on Mangler Squigs or buy an Arachnarok despite it being my only Spiderfang unit?  None of these sound overly appealing.  I'm hoping monsters won't be 100% mandatory, 'cause if they are that stinks since I bought the Fungal Loonborde Xmas box for Gitz a few months back and I can't see how I could then feasibly use all or even most of those models if that's the case which are all my favorites.