AoS3 - Lumineth Realm-lords Discussion

[Andalf]

6 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Same here. I am, perhaps foolishly, trying to come up with a 2000-points Ymetrica list with Teclis, a Stone Mage and a Spirit of the Mountain. But I can't come up with a combination of Stoneguard and other units that doesn't overshoot or underscore the points. I also found myself looking at Endless Spells just to fill up a little.

I have been seeing how to fit Teclis into my list as well, except I want to keep Avalenor, and it feels as though the limitations placed on god level character + lord level monster hero is intentional, I don’t want to fight Kragnos and a Mawkrusha either but I will need to shortly.  I always end up at 4x5 guard +2 ballistas + Teclis, Stonemage and No-name Stoneheart but I’d like to try and get it one drop.

I learned today Teclis swaps perfectly for Avalenor, Lyrior and my Windmage (saves me 10 points) in my list.  That change would make my healing from magic way better, and puts my magic defence on another level.  I’d have less CP, and would miss out on Unshakeable Faith of the Mountains for making my Guard better on objectives, but teleport and all of those damage spells in the tool box makes it seem very worthwhile.  Avalenor makes people not want to come close without their own beatstick, which is an intangible when considering he might be able to assist in denying other board control Grand Strategies/Battle Tactics.  Teclis can do a lot but there aren’t very many hammer units in the Lumineth tome.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Andalf

[Austin]

7 hours ago, Andalf said:

What does your list look like?  I find a lot of them fill tactical holes you may not have plays into.  Like taking away command abilities defensively with geminids, I think Horrorghast is great offensively for some of our shooting units.  Shards of Valaghar, and Soulsnare Shackles in particular, are starting to look real sweet to me to support my Stoneguard and control those objectives in the middle.

I didn't save any of them, will work on getting some later.  It was mainly lists with big monsters (I include the Wind spirits in that category) that all of a sudden got to weird points levels.  Helon was pretty tough in particular.

[LuminethMage]

That can happen now, but yeah ES can be the solution. Even something that isn't that great like a Burning Head - 20 points that might bring you some additional MW. And then you are down to something like 1950 and can speculate to get the Triumph. Or take Lifebloom/Shackles/Horrorghast to fill up the list. Chronomatic Cogs should be also useful in many LRL lists. 

[Maogrim]

I'm really intent on bringing Teclis since I love the character, I put a lot of time and effort into the model, and he seems to be such an amazing toolbox. He provides some defence against Mortal Wounds and can teleport the Stoneguard as well. 

Guess I really need to get my hands on Malign Sorcery. Will the box get updated?! Or do I just get it for the models and find the updated rules a) online or b) in the new core rules?

[LuminethMage]

If you can get the box now, it's good to have it. It might get re-packaged and updated (maybe also including the Horrorghast etc.?), but who knows when. The ES are made in China if I'm not mistaken, with current shipping issues it might not be on top of GW's priority list to update the.

The rules are out as you say (in the GHB, not Core Book though, later also in the App), so if you buy the current one, there shouldn't be any problems - besides it might be difficult to get the Omens (Horroghast and 2(?) other Endless Spells later if they put them all in one box). 

Edited July 7, 2021 by LuminethMage

[zilberfrid]

I hadn't seen it here, but someone made a beautiful Loreseeker from the Biased Referee from Blood Bowl

[GrimDork]

Funny, I picked up the same model to use as a Calligrave.

[kozokus]

Hello,

Just a quick question, English is not my native language, can someone clarify the Starshard errata for me?

‘Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made with Starshard Bolts by this unit, if the attacks target an enemy unit that is visible to a friendly Lumineth Realm-lords Hero that is within 18" of this unit.’

Can you clarify what has to be within 18 of what?

Thanks in advance.

[GrimDork]

"this unit" refers to the Ballista. So if there is a hero within 18" of the ballista, and the target is visible to that hero you get the +1 to hit.

[kozokus]

Sweet!
Thank you, this is quite permissive.

[Howdyhedberg]

3 hours ago, GrimDork said:

"this unit" refers to the Ballista. So if there is a hero within 18" of the ballista, and the target is visible to that hero you get the +1 to hit.

I'm not fully into the AoS 3 buffs, but could you add one extra +1 with command ability?

[GrimDork]

No, in AoS 3.0 most modifiers are capped at +1 or -1, so unless you were at -1 to hit from something else there would be no point giving a unit +2 to hit.

[Ragest]

I've tried to include Teclis in my lists, but i just can't justify him anymore.

One of each wizard (Cathy, Stone and Wind) with extra enchancement spell and Cogs is way better

[Rhetoric]

Hi all, 

 

Lumineth will be my army project for 2022, as I work through the rest of my projects for the remainder of the year.  I have just found a list that I am psyched about.  I play IDK and Sylvaneth and might be painting a mega gargant right now :).  I’m looking for feedback on this list and any C&C is welcome.  The list is meant to lean into the models I already have and the models I really like in the range. This isn’t meant to be super competitive.  

Great Nation: Helon

Hurakan Windmage

- General

Scinari Loreseeker

Sevrith

Vanari Lord Regent

5 Windchargers

5 Windchargers

5 Windchargera

5 Dawnriders

10 Wardens

10 Wardens 

10 Sentinels

5 Bladelords

[LuminethMage]

On 7/14/2021 at 7:41 AM, Rhetoric said:

Hi all, 

 

Lumineth will be my army project for 2022, as I work through the rest of my projects for the remainder of the year.  I have just found a list that I am psyched about.  I play IDK and Sylvaneth and might be painting a mega gargant right now :).  I’m looking for feedback on this list and any C&C is welcome.  The list is meant to lean into the models I already have and the models I really like in the range. This isn’t meant to be super competitive.  

Great Nation: Helon

Hurakan Windmage

- General

Scinari Loreseeker

Sevrith

Vanari Lord Regent

5 Windchargers

5 Windchargers

5 Windchargera

5 Dawnriders

10 Wardens

10 Wardens 

10 Sentinels

5 Bladelords

This generally looks good. It depends a bit if you can play the Wind Temple units well, that could be the only “issue”. 10 Sentinels don’t do that much, but might still be worth it in Helon. 

[Maogrim]

So, I don't know if this bothers anyone but me, but...why is Lyrior the Warden of Ymetrica? 

Ymetrica is one of the four Tecleian Nations while Lyrior is described as not only one of Tyrion's favored generals, but the figurehead of the Tyrionic Nations according to the lore.

He does nothing of particular value for his keyword, nor does the keyword do him any favors. He is no Alarith and Alarith units do not benefit from his spell. 

They should have just left out the nation keyword like with Eltharion or put him into Alumnia. That would have made so much more sense. Now you might say "Yea dog, G-dubbs needed his blue-white color scheme repesented in his keywords, innit?!", to which I answer: "Lo' and behold, they changed the twins' keyword for lore-reasons." 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Maogrim

[Howdyhedberg]

On 7/21/2021 at 7:13 AM, Maogrim said:

So, I don't know if this bothers anyone but me, but...why is Lyrior the Warden of Ymetrica? 

I agree, it makes no sense! Either a different faction, like Alumnia, or none.

I played my first 3.0 game today (3 player game). I came last, but still had an enjoyable time.

The chaos player and I fought most of the game, the Nighthaunts didnt fight until turn 3 and 4 (we played the multiplayer battleplan in the core rules). I made some mistkakes with the Illathia revive stone, so there should have been some more Nighthaunt models there, and the chaos player and I forgot to check each time in the last round if Eltharion could do stuff (with Belakors ability). The mistakes didn't change the outcome of the game though. Nighthaunt won with 15+ points and Chaos had 14 points I think, and I had 10 points? Im just happy that I almost finished 10 chaos warriors with 5 dawnriders and the Lord regent, while 5 dawnriders held Belakor locked for 2 turns.

----

 

How do people last 2000 point games? It feels like there is to many rules to keep track off in the game, core rules, Lumineth rules, sub faction rules and so on.

I know LRL isn't top on the meta (or at least not when i checked lately), but do you ever feel like our army is op? My 10 sentinels were lackluster this game, (1000 points each). I guess they can be OP in large numbers, but just 10 isn't that amazing. 

 

How do you all feel? Is it just me that have to memorize more rules, or is it hard for you all to keep track of it all too?

(Edit, the picture is taken after the game was over. The Wardens had coherency in the game).

Edited July 22, 2021 by Howdyhedberg

[LuminethMage]

4 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

I agree, it makes no sense! Either a different faction, like Alumnia, or none.

I played my first 3.0 game today (3 player game). I came last, but still had an enjoyable time.

The chaos player and I fought most of the game, the Nighthaunts didnt fight until turn 3 and 4 (we played the multiplayer battleplan in the core rules). I made some mistkakes with the Illathia revive stone, so there should have been some more Nighthaunt models there, and the chaos player and I forgot to check each time in the last round if Eltharion could do stuff (with Belakors ability). The mistakes didn't change the outcome of the game though. Nighthaunt won with 15+ points and Chaos had 14 points I think, and I had 10 points? Im just happy that I almost finished 10 chaos warriors with 5 dawnriders and the Lord regent, while 5 dawnriders held Belakor locked for 2 turns.

----

 

How do people last 2000 point games? It feels like there is to many rules to keep track off in the game, core rules, Lumineth rules, sub faction rules and so on.

I know LRL isn't top on the meta (or at least not when i checked lately), but do you ever feel like our army is op? My 10 sentinels were lackluster this game, (1000 points each). I guess they can be OP in large numbers, but just 10 isn't that amazing. 

 

How do you all feel? Is it just me that have to memorize more rules, or is it hard for you all to keep track of it all too?

(Edit, the picture is taken after the game was over. The Wardens had coherency in the game).

Great that you had a good time! 

AoS 3 can be a bit overwhelming for the first few games. My first took almost 7h (incl. setup), and afterwards I felt braindead. But that's also part of the fun in a way. Definitely use all the tokens you have from the box, cheats sheets, and prepare a bit what you want to do (I usually write down what I want to do during my first Magic Phase with each Wizard, even though you have to adapt a bit, and think about my Battle Tactics). And then it's just playing as much as you can and maybe don't change your list too much/often for the first few games. 

How your army feels in your local group is really dependent on what your friends play. LRL have a lot of options, and Mortal Wounds are great in this edition. So generally you should be fine (if someone plays a 15 Bow Snakes list with Morathi and Gotrek on the other hand, you might not be fine : ) ). I think no one knows yet how the tournament meta will look like and what LRL's place will be in it. 

A 3 way game in 1,000 points is probably not a good way to judge how good there are right now. Especially if one of your opponents brings something like Belakor to a 1,000 points game. That's like you taking Teclis in a 1,500 list when everyone else just plays with 5/6 W heroes. (Not saying it's bad of them to do so, just hard to count the game in terms of how LRL perform generally or you would perform in a 2,000 points game).

You definitely have to memorize many/most of the rules (and/or use cheat sheets). Especially with LRL, all those small things add up - don't forget to throw your Warden flask, can you risk a point for Redeploy so that your opponent gets into range of Unleash Hell when they charge. Use your LR so that you can cast Arcane Bolt with your Warden for maybe 2 x d3 MW, your Windmage has a spell that prevents others from using Command Abilities on a unit until your next hero phase (don't forget it's still valid during their turn). Don't forget to retreat so that you maybe can Rally next hero phase, have you tried to heal your heroes? Stacking save buffs to ignore rend. And so on. I try to focus each game on one of the new Command Abilities right now, to use them as often as possible (even if it's not always making sense) so that I can remember them better.

For example, 10 Sentinels aren't great, yup - but, in a 1,000 points game without something like Belakor, let's say you have Lambent Light on a "normal" unit that is likely going to charge you the following phase. If you position the Sentinels so that you can Unleash Hell - that means you have two phases of shooting at that unit under Lambent Light (in your shooting phase and then in your opponents charge phase). That can still add up to quite a lot of MW (for a 1,000 game). Now, as soon as you have 20 Sentinels ... they are starting to get really good. And you could even have used an unrelated movement of your opponent somewhere else to Redeploy your Sentinels so that they are in reach for Unleash Hell later.

And then you have your Battle Tactics and the general strategy on how to score and actually win a game : ). It's also good to put in some thought in advance of a game. What's the potential Battle Tactics you can score with your list, and what rough order would you want to do it. Is there an opportunity to cast Metamorphosis to score extra (something I always plan to do and then forget 😅). Or do you have a Monster with which you could do that. 

 

[Iteken]

I've had a couple of 1k points games at my FLGS recently and really dig how Lumineth are playing with 3.0. I got rolled pretty hard by Vamps last week, but the player is far better than I, and apparently had to use all his tricks for it.

This is the list:

Cathaller (General / spells!)

Windmage (Teleport)

10x Wardens

10x Wardens (Speed)

5x Dawnriders (Lambent Light)

20x Sentinels

What i'm trying to decide is wether to use Vanilla and then stack Doubel spells/Double Cast on the Cathaller or use Helon as at that level, the 20 Sentiels are not completely broken, but dangerous enough that my opponents ahve to get into them, and a  double-shoot, if lucky with Lambent Light and Hysh absolutely hurts anything.

I don't see much love for Helon ?

[LuminethMage]

1,000 points games aren't always balanced. Your list seems good to me. Although maybe the WM isn't worth it, how often will you get that 8 cast actually off? Another spell could do more for you if you want to stick with the WM. But it's a good spell, so not saying you do something wrong there. Not sure if it worked points-wise but otherwise a unit of 5 BL might do more for you. Depends on your opponent's list. 

I don't think Helon is the best option for you, it buffs basically one unit under specific conditions, and one which a SBL player has a lot of options to throw a wrench into what you are aiming for. Especially if he is a good player, and you pick Helon - it's not really difficult to figure out what you want to do when you have one shooting unit on the table. 

Probably Syar, Zaitrec (if you really want to get those 8 spells cast), Alumnia or Iliatha will do more for you. Except if you aim to utilize the Helon CA in some kind of interesting way - I doubt many people have experienced that already, so that could surprise some people. 

Hard to say more until we know what kind of SBL list you faced. 

[kollapse]

Hi folks,

Brand new AoS player here, looking for some advice. I just decided to make Lumineth my entry into the game and I’m soon off to buy some stuff to start. Besides the tome (and printed core rules as I like having it on paper), what would be a good start in terms of models?

I’m looking at getting something to get 500-1000 pts on the table, and of course stuff that’s fun, but I want to be mindful not to get too much that might not be viable at all competitively down the line (if that’s even possible to know). Not a super important point now of course. 

Thanks! 

[OkayestDM]

2 hours ago, kollapse said:

Hi folks,

Brand new AoS player here, looking for some advice. I just decided to make Lumineth my entry into the game and I’m soon off to buy some stuff to start. Besides the tome (and printed core rules as I like having it on paper), what would be a good start in terms of models?

I’m looking at getting something to get 500-1000 pts on the table, and of course stuff that’s fun, but I want to be mindful not to get too much that might not be viable at all competitively down the line (if that’s even possible to know). Not a super important point now of course. 

Thanks! 

Welcome to the game!

 

Fair warning, Lumineth are one of the most complex armies to command in the game right now. They can be very rewarding to run, but there's going to be a lot to remember.

EDIT: Before you make any model purchases, it might be a good idea to buy just the Battletome and read through the rules. This'll give you a good sense for what you'll be dealing with as far as rules and abilities that you'll need to remember, and help you make a much more informed decision before you purchase any models. This hobby isn't cheap, after all.

With that said, here are my recommendations for a starter list.

For now, I recommend that you either stay away from the temple units (The cows and foxes, and units attached to them) or commit to them exclusively. These can be very fun units that bring different tools into the army, but each also brings along an additional set of rules that you'll have to remember on top of everything else, and the temples are very much a separate entity from the rest of the army. 

If you choose not to invest in one of the temples, you'll want to buy some Wardens. These guys are your basic Battleline troops, and are one of your most all-around useful units. If you're trying to be economical, you only need to buy 1 unit of Wardens to play a rules-legal 1000 point game (so long as you also have a unit of Sentinels or Dawnriders in your army.) My recommendation, however, is that you buy at least 2, and either run them as 2 separate 10-man units, or one big 20-man unit.

Next you'll want to purchase some Sentinels. These are your archers, and you can choose to make one unit of Sentinels count as Battleline for every unit of Wardens in you're army, meaning that with one unit of Wardens and one unit of Sentinels, you have enough Battleline units to build a rules-legal 1000 point list. Sentinels are an excellent unit that can put reliable pressure on your enemy and help make up for how slow the Lumineth can sometimes be. A word of warning, however. Sentinels can be a contentious unit for some players, as their rules around shooting have ruffled a lot of feathers. If you're going for a more competitive build, 2 boxes of Sentinels will do some good work for you - particularly in a 1000 point game.

Most of your other troop choices after these have far more niche uses, meaning that anything else you choose to use will come down to personal preference. Dawnriders are fast and very good against most infantry units, but do poorly when facing monsters, heroes, or other cavalry. Bladelords are also good against infantry, and can server as a wound-buffer for some of your more fragile heroes, but don't necessarily contribute as much as you would hope. The Starshard Ballista is a decent and far less contentious alternative to the Sentinels, but it's very slow and can't really hold objectives against enemy units. When in doubt, just stick with Wardens and Sentinels.

For heroes, the Vanari Lord Regent is an excellent choice, as his spell can buff several of your units, and free up their spell for other uses. He's also fast and not terrible in combat if it comes to that.

The Loreseeker and Cathallar are also good choices. The Loreseeker is a great way to capture objectives early and can be surprisingly durable, though he's designed to be a solo-act and won't necessarily synergize with the rest of the army. The Cathallar helps to mitigate the penalty from using Aetherquartz, and can damage enemy morale, but she's also very fragile and needs to be kept safe from enemy attack.

The other heroes are still decent choices, but they're better as support heroes than as your general.

 If the temple units are actually what interest you, there are ways to run a fully temple-based army, but it's generally agreed that they're some of the weaker builds overall. (That doesn't mean they aren't still fun to run or that you can't win with them, however.) For my part, the temple units are actually my favorites, and if the rules seem overwhelming, they can actually be easier to run. My personal favorite is the Alarith temple. They're very slow, but they're fairly tanky, and that Spirit of the Mountain can hit like a freight-train when it gets into combat.

Edited August 2, 2021 by OkayestDM

[kollapse]

53 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

Welcome to the game!

 

Fair warning, Lumineth are one of the most complex armies to command in the game right now. They can be very rewarding to run, but there's going to be a lot to remember.

EDIT: Before you make any model purchases, it might be a good idea to buy just the Battletome and read through the rules. This'll give you a good sense for what you'll be dealing with as far as rules and abilities that you'll need to remember, and help you make a much more informed decision before you purchase any models. This hobby isn't cheap, after all.

With that said, here are my recommendations for a starter list.

For now, I recommend that you either stay away from the temple units (The cows and foxes, and units attached to them) or commit to them exclusively. These can be very fun units that bring different tools into the army, but each also brings along an additional set of rules that you'll have to remember on top of everything else, and the temples are very much a separate entity from the rest of the army. 

If you choose not to invest in one of the temples, you'll want to buy some Wardens. These guys are your basic Battleline troops, and are one of your most all-around useful units. If you're trying to be economical, you only need to buy 1 unit of Wardens to play a rules-legal 1000 point game (so long as you also have a unit of Sentinels or Dawnriders in your army.) My recommendation, however, is that you buy at least 2, and either run them as 2 separate 10-man units, or one big 20-man unit.

Next you'll want to purchase some Sentinels. These are your archers, and you can choose to make one unit of Sentinels count as Battleline for every unit of Wardens in you're army, meaning that with one unit of Wardens and one unit of Sentinels, you have enough Battleline units to build a rules-legal 1000 point list. Sentinels are an excellent unit that can put reliable pressure on your enemy and help make up for how slow the Lumineth can sometimes be. A word of warning, however. Sentinels can be a contentious unit for some players, as their rules around shooting have ruffled a lot of feathers. If you're going for a more competitive build, 2 boxes of Sentinels will do some good work for you - particularly in a 1000 point game.

Most of your other troop choices after these have far more niche uses, meaning that anything else you choose to use will come down to personal preference. Dawnriders are fast and very good against most infantry units, but do poorly when facing monsters, heroes, or other cavalry. Bladelords are also good against infantry, and can server as a wound-buffer for some of your more fragile heroes, but don't necessarily contribute as much as you would hope. The Starshard Ballista is a decent and far less contentious alternative to the Sentinels, but it's very slow and can't really hold objectives against enemy units. When in doubt, just stick with Wardens and Sentinels.

For heroes, the Vanari Lord Regent is an excellent choice, as his spell can buff several of your units, and free up their spell for other uses. He's also fast and not terrible in combat if it comes to that.

The Loreseeker and Cathallar are also good choices. The Loreseeker is a great way to capture objectives early and can be surprisingly durable, though he's designed to be a solo-act and won't necessarily synergize with the rest of the army. The Cathallar helps to mitigate the penalty from using Aetherquartz, and can damage enemy morale, but she's also very fragile and needs to be kept safe from enemy attack.

The other heroes are still decent choices, but they're better as support heroes than as your general.

 If the temple units are actually what interest you, there are ways to run a fully temple-based army, but it's generally agreed that they're some of the weaker builds overall. (That doesn't mean they aren't still fun to run or that you can't win with them, however.) For my part, the temple units are actually my favorites, and if the rules seem overwhelming, they can actually be easier to run. My personal favorite is the Alarith temple. They're very slow, but they're fairly tanky, and that Spirit of the Mountain can hit like a freight-train when it gets into combat.

This is excellent, thanks a bunch. I was looking at Wardens and Sentinels actually, so this makes perfect sense. The temple units all look cool, but I think I was looking more in the direction you suggest so I'll stay clear of them (if I don't want something amazing to paint). 

I'll start with a box of Wardens, one Sentinel box and a hero to have something to start assembling before I dive deeper into what I want to do with my army. 

[chosen_of_khaine]

Dunno if anyone else saw, but a Ymetrica list recently got 2nd in a 36-player, 5 round tournament. It was consisted of:

Teclis
Cathallar
2x10 Stoneguard
20 Sentinels
5 Bladelords
Ballista
Spellportal

It does seem hard to shift 20 wounds on a 3+ save ignoring -2 rend and 5+ ward! 

[LuminethMage]

Nice something different.