AoS3 - Lumineth Realm-lords Discussion

[Andalf]

Kind of a good thing really, makes it easier to throw them around without worrying about losing the general anyway.  Makes sense too, holding onto those warlord vp’s with them is as obnoxious as the rest of it!  Guess I should read the warscrolls a bit closer, it’s nice a can work in the practice games.

[Austin]

Just got the book today.  

As I start looking at new lists, I am a bit apprehensive about the impact of the new reinforcement rules on Ymetrica and Helon lists that use the unlocked battlelines.  Though, I suppose with the new unit cohesion rules Stoneguard will operate far better in minimum sized units anyway.

[LuminethMage]

Yeah, if they don't change the reach on SG, mostly 5s with maybe a 10 is probably the best way to use them. 

@Andalf I've looked a lot into our Twins, I played with them in AoS 2 a lot, I think they are one of our most fun units. The teleport ability is hilarious and can win you games, or really make things difficult for you. It's so much fun. But they cost around as much as 2 of our other heroes, which makes them quite difficult to fit in. For example, with my current list, I'd lose a Windmage, a Stonemage, 5 Bladelords, the Rune of Petrification and one enhancement to gain them, 10 Warden and a higher chance of a triumph in exchange. Which I'm not sure is worth it (I'll test it though : ) ). If you like them though, there might be some good builds using them and Eltharion for example. Or like you say in Iliatha. You can give them Flaming Weapon as one of their spells, meaning they start with 2 dam on the big sword and it goes up to 6 dam in BR 5 : ). The beam and melee damage they can do from BR 4 onwards was already really good in AoS2, so I imagine AoS3 will be really awesome. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by LuminethMage

[Andalf]

I think it was their longevity that really stood out.  With 8 wounds they just seemed generally tankier, with all the heroic actions going on them for heals and finest hour they seemed like little demi gods.  I do agree with the points cost, I suppose I’ll have to see how often the teleport wrecks my plans before counting on them enough for a tournament setting.  I get really excited about new things and I hadn’t got the chance to run them in AoS2.  Nothing I do within this game is intended to run with the best of the best stuff, I tend to try out everything maybe a themed kind of guy but not really fluffy.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Andalf

[Howdyhedberg]

I guess the loreseeker is unique again? They seemed to take away the unique trait in the pitched battle list, but in the errata it says the model is unique again?

[chosen_of_khaine]

35 minutes ago, Howdyhedberg said:

I guess the loreseeker is unique again? They seemed to take away the unique trait in the pitched battle list, but in the errata it says the model is unique again?

That's carried over from the last FAQ when he was still unique (and is actually not errata). As of right now, he is still unique AFAIK.

Also, ouch, huge nerf to the twinstones and sanctum. I don't think either are worth their points anymore by any margin.

Edited July 2, 2021 by chosen_of_khaine

[Khaedhras]

Aaaaaaand the twinstones are gone from competitive lists. Strange that the lore talks about how the energy feedback loop yet they go *poof* after using them. And the sanctum is worse than it was for now double the points

On the other hand, it seems that Iliatha's double CP is valid and I can see it being cool and strong in the new edition.

They'll definitely have to clarify yet again the intended interaction with the Loreseeker. Right now the FAQ text states that he is noted as unique, and the GHB2021 doesn't, so it's pretty contradictory.

[Howdyhedberg]

Any clue if we can use unleash hell twice with ilathia?

[Andalf]

5 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

Any clue if we can use unleash hell twice with ilathia?

It definitely reads this way.  The FAQ also removed the “2 or more Vanari models in the unit” stipulation the Strike in Unison rule had so it looks like Starshards are a pretty serious Go.

MW’s are going to be the real enemy every time but hopefully I can get/keep a protection of Hysh bubble up with Lyrior.  I can’t nuke my champions with one bad miscast, and if Cogs manages to go off there is plenty of spell casting ability; it’s just not the classic +2/3 to 4 casts, it’ll be 3-4 extra casts trying to be savvy with bypassing dispels.  Looks like fun and I’m really glad my collection doesn’t feel like it needs an entire overhaul.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Andalf

[Howdyhedberg]

Sweet. I think I will try ilathia next time I play. I've only tried zaitrec before. I have a 1000 point list with Alumnia that I want to try too! (Seeing it as a very offensive faction).

 

And congratulations for having better luck with ymetrica!

[kreggurree]

@Andalf what might an Ymetrica list look like? (I’m exploring factions to collect that catch my eye)

[Howdyhedberg]

btw. anyone have a clue how the batalions from the battletome work? Because they seemed to update the buffs from those, so i guess we can still use them, but they are "free"?

[Andalf]

6 hours ago, kreggurree said:

@Andalf what might an Ymetrica list look like? (I’m exploring factions to collect that catch my eye)

My list is on the first page, I just switched the twinstones for Chronomantic Cogs and am playing some Soulblight in a few hours.

I put Lyrior with the Artillery Battery for free all out attack without using it.  Makes him a slightly better support charge piece, allowing me to still use it on my Dawnriders at the same time.  Starshards generally hit on 2’s and they haven’t been in position, or really up against armies I played defensively enough against, to use Unleash Hell.

I take a Warlord Battalion to get the extra spells on my Windmage, Stonemage and two Dawnriders squads.  I’m almost glad the changes to twinstones because I was really back and forth between them and the cogs to begin with, but now that they disappear it seems no brainer for tactical flexibility.  I can’t push big spells but it’ll be up to me to go timely and I prefer this play style, reminds me of the old Winds of Magic days...  Windmage takes teleport and heals, Stonemage takes Entomb and battleshock immunity.  Some hard spells, some easy spells, and great utility.  Nothing is guaranteed but same thing, I think having strong mechanics that show up mid game as more of a surprise will be more effective in winning games than using up all the internet combos people will be appraised on.  Can’t wait to post up an Arcane Bolt, Windblast Vortex and charge in with Almighty Blow for 3d3 MW from the little Hurakan Goku!

Edited July 4, 2021 by Andalf

[Azamar]

3 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

btw. anyone have a clue how the batalions from the battletome work? Because they seemed to update the buffs from those, so i guess we can still use them, but they are "free"?

As I understand it, they no longer have a points cost and you can take them if you have the right units. But they don’t give single drop/ extra command points/extra enhancements and you can only use them in battle packs that allow them (ie not matched play)

[whispersofblood]

5 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

btw. anyone have a clue how the batalions from the battletome work? Because they seemed to update the buffs from those, so i guess we can still use them, but they are "free"?

That depends. They aren't matched play legal. But otherwise they are available to be taken otherwise for free.

[martinwolf]

10 hours ago, Andalf said:

The FAQ also removed the “2 or more Vanari models in the unit” stipulation the Strike in Unison rule had so it looks like Starshards are a pretty serious Go.

I don't see that in the FAQ. As far as I know/see they only changed the "Unity of Purpose" ability, not the "Strike in Unison" command ability.

[dmorley21]

On 7/1/2021 at 5:47 PM, Austin said:

Just got the book today.  

As I start looking at new lists, I am a bit apprehensive about the impact of the new reinforcement rules on Ymetrica and Helon lists that use the unlocked battlelines.  Though, I suppose with the new unit cohesion rules Stoneguard will operate far better in minimum sized units anyway.

Is there something that says unlocked battleline units can't be reinforced twice? 

[Austin]

13 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

Is there something that says unlocked battleline units can't be reinforced twice? 

No sorry, what I meant was you end up with small battleline units in that case vs the 10 man options of Wardens (or unlocked Sentinels) so its far more likely you will reinforce them and lose out on being able to reinforce other units.

[kreggurree]

19 hours ago, Andalf said:

My list is on the first page, I just switched the twinstones for Chronomantic Cogs and am playing some Soulblight in a few hours.

....

I should have read the whole thread ;). Thanks for the breakdown though that's really helpful to understand your thinking. How did it go against the Soulblight?

 

I am currently deciding which faction to dive into for AoS and your list makes Lumineth appealing, but it's tough competition with Seraphon and idoneth pulling me as well.

[Andalf]

I would take what I have to say with a huge grain of salt.  The games I’ve been playing have been in house with my fiancée mostly just learning the new ropes and trying to force our collections into things that look like how We think AoS 3 will look.

That being said, game against Neferata, 2x Blood Knights, Mortis Engine, 3xBlack Knights, Vengorian Lord, Wight King bravery bomber and a zippy little vamp lord.  Survival of the Fittest: 3 objectives evenly spaced down a diagonal deployment, choose 3 predator units of your own and score a point for killing predators with yours.

Standouts were casting teleport early twice and getting to place Stoneguard behind enemy lines w/in 9”.  At 8 to cast I never rely on it but it was really helpful aligning a big counter attack turn 3.  Avalenor and buffing D3 units with an attack was also big.  He took the centre and was pretty easily able to send that ability to every Stoneguard unit that needed it so long as I rolled well because of wholly within 24”...  like it or not 5 Stoneguard with that buff hit about as hard as the Blood Knights, I use Mallets and punched 2-3 extra damages and the Stonemage was in range of two squads for the extra rend (almost making them better than the Vampire Knights? 👍🏻) which really didn’t help how spread out her cavalry were down the sort of main front line of the table.  They couldn’t run through with Riders of Ruin because I had too many units behind my main line, little support wizards, and the Dawnriders snaking all over because they were mostly useless in this matchup otherwise.  Neferata ended up wrecking face through a bunch of little 5, 2-wound elf squads but I managed to heal back probably 5 Stoneguard with Emerald Lifeswarm total throughout the game, and probably 7+ on Avalenor with heroic actions.  A lucky Solar Flare kind of sealed the deal turn four stopping all of the debuffs/buffs they could cast and by then I’d scored 3xbattle tactics to their 1 and contested/controlled too much of the table for them to really make an end game push.

To a very big extent I think dice went way in Lumineth favour, but they also just had more opportunities to make their moves more efficient with the loads of CP’s.  They could maintain their strategy better throughout the game because of the ability to rely on 5/20 mechanics (spells, CA’s, warscroll abilities yadda) popping off, and some surprisingly, rather than the Vamps really relying on maybe just some of Neferata’s defensive stuff, a flying version of a Stoneheart in the Vengorian Lord (sort of) and the strength of the Blood Knight’s scroll.

 

[inflitionz]

On 7/1/2021 at 8:38 PM, Andalf said:

I played a 2k test game against my fiancée using a real hodge podge collection of Lumineth stuff.  I pulled out what I think is my meanest Stormcast stuff, and ran into Ellania and Ellathor in a bad way.

At 285 points they are steep, but you have to kill them with ranged mortals, or make sure you kill them in combat before they get to swing.  If you don’t fulfill either of these requirements they just don’t die... and then they go Nuclear.

For the first three turns they stood in Combat with a Tauralon, Gryphcharger and 10 Sequitors.  The Lord Arcanums had to leave to deal with a Loreseeker on my back objective and I wasn’t closing the warlord kill I was trying to get from the Twins at all so abandoned that idea.   They then proceeded to Finest Hour through the last of the Sequitors and teleport to an objective on Turn 5 that my Warlord Tauralon and 3 Evocators were sitting on fighting Lyrior Uthralle on his last 4 wounds.  They cut half of the wounds out of both units with their laser beam and finished the Tauralon, while Lyrior helped take the Evocators to one left and outnumber for the objective.

Im putting this here because I hear a lot about how they seem too expensive, but I have a really good feeling about them.  I’ve designed a couple Alumnia lists they’ll fit a lot better into, with Heroic Healing and all the CP Lumineth can generate they were always on a 2+/5+ and were a great spot for Protection of Hysh because they’ll likely outlive everything in their bubble before teleporting out, unless your opponent pours everything into them which Bladelords can really help with.

I had two questions though.  Can they really automatically come back to life on D6 if they die as long as they fight in the fight phase?  It’s sort of worded as such, but seems way too awesome, we laughed and said let’s have it work this way until the internet tells us it doesn’t; I’d still think they were extremely powerful without this (after rereading it like 7 times it doesn’t work this way, looks like they need to be alive to be removed from the table) Also, can I make them the general and get a free CP on 4+?  With Lyrior and a Calligrave in the Shrine I was able to push Commands without even thinking about it, even more might be too many!

Im glad someone else is realising this. All of my lists in 3.0 so far have had them and emerald lifeswarm to become an unkillable mess if not seriously targeted by round 1-2 minimum. 

[Austin]

I am really struggling with the new points.  So far my lists end up down anywhere from 80-110 points.  Is anyone else encountering this?  I suppose I could just fill with Endless Spells but that doesn't feel all that great.

[Andalf]

38 minutes ago, Austin said:

I am really struggling with the new points.  So far my lists end up down anywhere from 80-110 points.  Is anyone else encountering this?  I suppose I could just fill with Endless Spells but that doesn't feel all that great.

What does your list look like?  I find a lot of them fill tactical holes you may not have plays into.  Like taking away command abilities defensively with geminids, I think Horrorghast is great offensively for some of our shooting units.  Shards of Valaghar, and Soulsnare Shackles in particular, are starting to look real sweet to me to support my Stoneguard and control those objectives in the middle.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Andalf

[Maogrim]

1 hour ago, Austin said:

I am really struggling with the new points.  So far my lists end up down anywhere from 80-110 points.  Is anyone else encountering this?  I suppose I could just fill with Endless Spells but that doesn't feel all that great.

Same here. I am, perhaps foolishly, trying to come up with a 2000-points Ymetrica list with Teclis, a Stone Mage and a Spirit of the Mountain. But I can't come up with a combination of Stoneguard and other units that doesn't overshoot or underscore the points. I also found myself looking at Endless Spells just to fill up a little.

[Luke1705]

2 hours ago, Austin said:

I am really struggling with the new points.  So far my lists end up down anywhere from 80-110 points.  Is anyone else encountering this?  I suppose I could just fill with Endless Spells but that doesn't feel all that great.

If it's 80 I would fill it with shackles in a second.  That spell is great