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AoS 3 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion


Chumphammer

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On 1/8/2022 at 2:40 PM, KrispyXIV said:

So, I was frustrated with my foray into Slaanesh and finally decided to put my DoK back on the table.  Inspired by @Chumphammer's list, I ran the following (almost a copy, but opting for a reinforced unit of Witches over the extra hero.  I can why the extra hero may be preferable - I'm not able to form a Vanguard detachment like that original list, which may have been valuable) - 

 Army Faction: Daughters of Khaine
 - Subfaction: Hagg Nar
 - Grand Strategy: Pillars of Belief
 - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (255)
 - Prayers: Crimson Rejuvenation, Sacrament of Blood
Bloodwrack Medusa (120)*
 - Spells: The Withering
Hag Queen (105)*
 - Prayers: Catechism of Murder, Sacrament of Blood
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (255)*
 - General
 - Command Traits: Devoted Disciple
 - Artefacts of Power: The Ulfúri
 - Prayers: Catechism of Murder, Heal
BATTLELINE
20 x Witch Aelves (240)**
10 x Witch Aelves (120)**
10 x Witch Aelves (120)**
BEHEMOTH
1 x Avatar of Khaine (120)
1 x Avatar of Khaine (120)
OTHER
9 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (120)*
10 x Blood Stalkers (360)*
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Heart of Fury (55)
CORE BATTALIONS
 -  *Warlord
 -  **Hunters of the Heartlands
TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 
Into new-Nurgle.  It was kindof a steamroll - the buffed large blob of Witches rolled up one flank and the death-blob of Avatars went up the other, and while I did eventually take losses I had enough damage to power through the defenses/healing of the Nurgle stuff for a decisive win.  I really like how this style plays.

honored :)

have you played it yet? 


You dont really need the 2nd Medusa, I just like the for the shooting ability/dispels/can do work in combat 

With the increase of stalkers I might drop them for sisters and use the spare points with that of the avatars to either make a HQ Cauldron into SQ, or add 5 Lifetakers

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I also wrote this which I like 

 

 - Army Faction: Daughters of Khaine
     - Subfaction: Hagg Nar
     - Grand Strategy: Pillars of Belief
     - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Bloodwrack Shrine (190)**
     - General
     - Command Traits: Devoted Disciple
     - Artefacts of Power: The Ulfúri
     - Spells: Mirror Dance
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (255)***
     - Prayers: Blessing of Khaine, Crimson Rejuvenation
Hag Queen (105)***
     - Prayers: Heal, Sacrament of Blood
Slaughter Queen (110)***
     - Prayers: Crimson Rejuvenation, Curse
Bloodwrack Medusa (120)****
     - Spells: The Withering
BATTLELINE
10 x Blood Sisters (280)*
10 x Blood Sisters (280)*
10 x Witch Aelves (120)***
10 x Witch Aelves (120)****
BEHEMOTH
1 x Avatar of Khaine (120)**
1 x Avatar of Khaine (120)**
OTHER
9 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (120)*
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Heart of Fury (55)
CORE BATTALIONS
 -  *Hunters of the Heartlands
 -  **Linebreaker
 -  ***Warlord
 -  ****Vanguard
TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000

Also kinda tempted to have something swap for Dorila Van Denst 

 

Like this:

 - Army Faction: Daughters of Khaine
     - Subfaction: Hagg Nar
     - Grand Strategy: Pillars of faith
     - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (255)*
     - General
     - Command Traits: Devoted Disciple
     - Artefacts of Power: The Ulfúri
     - Prayers: Heal, Sacrament of Blood
Doralia ven Denst (115)*
Slaughter Queen (110)*
     - Prayers: Curse, Heal
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (255)**
     - Artefacts of Power: Khainite Pendant
     - Prayers: Blessing of Khaine, Crimson Rejuvenation
Bloodwrack Medusa (120)**
     - Spells: Mirror Dance
Bloodwrack Medusa (120)**
     - Spells: The Withering
BATTLELINE
10 x Shadow Warriors (120)
10 x Witch Aelves (120)***
10 x Witch Aelves (120)***
10 x Witch Aelves (120)***
BEHEMOTH
1 x Avatar of Khaine (120)
1 x Avatar of Khaine (120)
OTHER
9 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (120)*
9 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (120)**
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Heart of Fury (55)
CORE BATTALIONS
 -  *Warlord
 -  **Warlord
 -  ***Hunters of the Heartlands
TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App


 

Edited by Chumphammer
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On 1/10/2022 at 1:37 PM, Chumphammer said:

honored :)

have you played it yet? 


You dont really need the 2nd Medusa, I just like the for the shooting ability/dispels/can do work in combat 

With the increase of stalkers I might drop them for sisters and use the spare points with that of the avatars to either make a HQ Cauldron into SQ, or add 5 Lifetakers

Three times.  Twice into Nurgle (second game was a win, but much closer than the first), and the third into an Archaon + varanguard list that went... badly.  I tried to set up my Heart of Fury in advance to protect me from the +1 damage on the charge Varanguard and mitigate Archaon somewhat - and then rolled a 6 and it poofed.  At which point I just got annihilated.  And doubled.  

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7 hours ago, KrispyXIV said:

Three times.  Twice into Nurgle (second game was a win, but much closer than the first), and the third into an Archaon + varanguard list that went... badly.  I tried to set up my Heart of Fury in advance to protect me from the +1 damage on the charge Varanguard and mitigate Archaon somewhat - and then rolled a 6 and it poofed.  At which point I just got annihilated.  And doubled.  

Yeah rolling the 6 then them getting the double is just bad luck. I find if I can get an avatar into Archaon he can usually keep the guy pinned while you cap obj and kill their army.

Least archaon isn't good in tzeentch or khorne now so will see him a bit less.

Practicing and tweeking the list will get more wins. My list has been an evolution and I've played a lot of games with it

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7 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Yeah rolling the 6 then them getting the double is just bad luck. I find if I can get an avatar into Archaon he can usually keep the guy pinned while you cap obj and kill their army.

Least archaon isn't good in tzeentch or khorne now so will see him a bit less.

Practicing and tweeking the list will get more wins. My list has been an evolution and I've played a lot of games with it

I'm honestly thinking of adding Morathi back in and running this - 

 - Army Faction: Daughters of Khaine
     - Subfaction: Hagg Nar
     - Grand Strategy: Pillars of Belief
     - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
The Shadow Queen (660)
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (255)*
     - General
     - Command Traits: Devoted Disciple
     - Artefacts of Power: The Ulfúri
     - Prayers: Catechism of Murder, Heal
Hag Queen (105)*
     - Prayers: Catechism of Murder, Sacrament of Blood
Slaughter Queen (110)*
     - Prayers: Crimson Rejuvenation, Sacrament of Blood
Morathi-Khaine (660)**
BATTLELINE
10 x Witch Aelves (120)**
10 x Witch Aelves (120)**
10 x Witch Aelves (120)**
BEHEMOTH
1 x Avatar of Khaine (120)
1 x Avatar of Khaine (120)
OTHER
9 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (120)*
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Heart of Fury (55)
1 x Bloodwrack Viper (95)
CORE BATTALIONS
 -  *Warlord
 -  **Vanguard
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

I dont want to fall into the trap of running cookie cutter Morathi and Bow Snakes, but the more I think on it the more I think that the update that gave Morathi the entire DoK lore is the best sort of buff - a buff that makes her hugely more interesting to play.  The DoK lore is full of stiff that is good but hard to cast, and instead of only being able to solve that for one spell now Morathi-Khaine can solve it for several, with extreme flexibility. 

I'm toying with swapping one of the two Avatars for a reinforcement on one of the Witch units, since managing animating them turn one may be a pain.  But I really like their 9 wounds on a 4+ +1 save near the cauldron...

...and the two fights in the Hero phase...

The Viper is in the list because I love the model and desperately want it to work for me, not that I particularly like it in the list.  With access to the full Lore, Morathi is never going to lack for things to cast. That said, it may be low key meta with everyone trying out nurgle near me...

Edited by KrispyXIV
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Ok, three games with the previous list with Morathi and no bow snakes, and it's a lot of fun.  

First against Nurgle was extremely close, and I initially thought I had lost by 1 point because I utterly failed to kill a GUO and had lost control of the board late game - entirely my fault, as I made some poor decisions I ultimately didn't need to.  Then I found out his grand strategy was the battle line focused one (which I had denied), and I still had a priest.  So I won!

Second was a "fun" game against troggs (my opponent had it coming :) ) which, imo, was closer than I expected.  I had a big lead after the top of 3, and my opponent conceded, but from where I was there was a significant concern that bottom of 3 if souls have essentially been Morathi vs just under half of his army and I'd have been fighting to keep him from catching up. My game to lose, but not quite the blowout he thought it was.  

Third game was against STD, which was a solid win and the only game of the three I got the snake to come out (despite attempting to cast it literally every turn) and it ate a Sorcerer, which was fun.  

All in all, a good time even without a ranged element.  The most notable thing was all three games had a single turn where I was able to get hero phase fights off, but otherwise the timing and positioning circumstances just made those extremely impractical. 

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I'm optimistic the new box set means updated scrolls for Heartrenders, Sisters of Slaughter, and Doomfire Warlocks as each of those units is one I feel like is currently at a strict disadvantage to their peers in book (Lifetakers, Witch Aelves, Bloodstalkers/Shadowstalkers).

Also always happy to have a new hero.

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I'm excited to get a new hero sculpt if only for painting! I like that she has a bare face option in addition to the mask, as well as the spear! I hope she can be run as a generic hero - it sounds like she is a named character?

That being said, I am going to wait for the separate release since I don't like the sculpts for doomfire warlocks. Their hands are huuuuuuegeee. (And I'd be lazy to pawn off the nighthaunt too)

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20 minutes ago, Ggom said:

I'm excited to get a new hero sculpt if only for painting! I like that she has a bare face option in addition to the mask, as well as the spear! I hope she can be run as a generic hero - it sounds like she is a named character?

That being said, I am going to wait for the separate release since I don't like the sculpts for doomfire warlocks. Their hands are huuuuuuegeee. (And I'd be lazy to pawn off the nighthaunt too)

Given the cost of Witch Aelves/Sisters of Slaughter, I'm optimistic about the value here so long as I can find Night Haunt splitters.  

The preview pics of just the hero model seem to imply she isn't unique, so I'm wondering if the name isn't just narrative for the box - not sure tho. 

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21 hours ago, Lucentia said:

The dual box heroes normally have names in the narrative of the box itself, yeah.  As we all know and definitely remember the Ironscale from Shadow and Pain was called Tyralla!

I had no idea (I bought my ironscale on its own.) Was the lore for Tyralla interesting? Was the mini campaign in the box any good?

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Hah, yes, I was being slightly tongue in cheek, I assume most people aren't buying these boxes for narrative purposes (Though I may well be wrong!)  The mini-campaign is more following the Slaanesh hero as they attempt to conquer a DoK stronghold in hunting for Slaanesh, so the Ironscale character is presented more as an adversary than having any particular lore, just generally scary and merciless, nothing especially noteworthy.  The campaign missions are all interesting enough, and there's a set of Ulgu realm features that are fairly fun.

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13 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

image0.jpg

Very exciting.  

Time to start dreaming about what's in it.  

I'm personally hoping that Morathi gets significantly tweaked to be a better experience all around, and so that Bow Snek can be recosted in a world where Morathi doesn't have to be considered (if you aren't running Mo, allied Namarti Reavers embarrass bow snek on output for the cost now).

Maybe some better internal balance and differentiation foe the elf units as well...

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My predictions:

1: Morathi-Khaine/Shadow queen scroll change to make them more powerful but more points. Think Nagash/Archaon points/power

2: Avatar of Khaine reworked for new 40k Model to give us a big monster unit (just in time to lose the benefits as new GHB comes out)

3: Path way for Malerion

4: Khinari hero to add to the DOK foot hero. I also think we might get an underworld set thats either snake themed or malarion connected. Act DOK only have 2 (tech 3) names heroes, Morathi and Morgwaeth. 

5: New Cauldron of blood. The kit is pretty old and though its awesome, a loooot of people would buy a new cauldron. Maybe Hellebron. 
 

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Very surprised to see a new DoK tome in the queue, I think I've only managed to play, like, 3 games with the current one (granted there's been, y'know, other stuff going on...)

I would not have bet on new models being part of a 3.0 DoK release, but I don't necessarily see why they'd be pushing out a new tome so soon after the 2.0 one otherwise.  Maybe the 40k avatar can be rolled in, but it has a lot of Eldar specific runes all over it which don't really match the DoK/dark elf ones, and if there's an alternate build that changes that we haven't seen it yet.

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2 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

My predictions:

1: Morathi-Khaine/Shadow queen scroll change to make them more powerful but more points. Think Nagash/Archaon points/power

2: Avatar of Khaine reworked for new 40k Model to give us a big monster unit (just in time to lose the benefits as new GHB comes out)

3: Path way for Malerion

4: Khinari hero to add to the DOK foot hero. I also think we might get an underworld set thats either snake themed or malarion connected. Act DOK only have 2 (tech 3) names heroes, Morathi and Morgwaeth. 

5: New Cauldron of blood. The kit is pretty old and though its awesome, a loooot of people would buy a new cauldron. Maybe Hellebron. 
 

Model wise, I'll be shocked if we add anything other than High Gladiatrix and MAYBE a Greater Avatar (from the 40k Avatar of Khaine).

I'll take anything we can get though!

I'd also be ecstatic to get something Stormkeeps-ish for Dark Elves in Cities...

Edited by KrispyXIV
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.I don't expect we will get more models other than what is in the battle box.

I also have a sneaky suspicion the new 40k Avatar of Khaine will not feature in our book. I think we will keep the old one and then at some indeterminate point in the future, when the cauldron kit gets an update, we will get an Avatar of Morathi-Khaine.

I don't think a lot really needs to be fiddled with really. Making Morathi's CA once per battle makes sense, otherwise she should remain pretty much unchanged.

I think that probably disincentives bow snakes quite a lot, throwing some minor buffs around to the less played stuff and that's about it.

Obviously we will get the sub faction treatment, but the abilities for all of them are pretty good as is, maybe battleline Khinerai from one and battleline snakes in Zainthar Kai (as well as with a melusai general).

Oh, I'd also like Turned to Crystal changed to be after they attack rather than the end of the phase.

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13 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

.I don't expect we will get more models other than what is in the battle box.

I also have a sneaky suspicion the new 40k Avatar of Khaine will not feature in our book. I think we will keep the old one and then at some indeterminate point in the future, when the cauldron kit gets an update, we will get an Avatar of Morathi-Khaine.

I don't think a lot really needs to be fiddled with really. Making Morathi's CA once per battle makes sense, otherwise she should remain pretty much unchanged.

I think that probably disincentives bow snakes quite a lot, throwing some minor buffs around to the less played stuff and that's about it.

Obviously we will get the sub faction treatment, but the abilities for all of them are pretty good as is, maybe battleline Khinerai from one and battleline snakes in Zainthar Kai (as well as with a melusai general).

Oh, I'd also like Turned to Crystal changed to be after they attack rather than the end of the phase.

I'd really like, personally, for Iron Heart of Khaine to go to something less invulnerable and more interactive.  The ability for Morathi-Khaine and the Shadow Queen to allocate wounds to each other with a shared wound pool of 6+12, TSQ on a 3+ save, and the ability to be healed for instance would leave them as fairly tanky but with the ability to take advantage of our multiple healing prayers and potentially Emerald Lifeswarm or something.  

The current invulnerability is definitely strong, but its also annoying to play into...

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If memory serves a lot of warscroll CAs have been removed for 3.0 books, so I'd expect Morathi's to go the same way, potentially seeing it moved to a once per battle army enhancement option ala Stormcast.

I suspect the 3w per turn thing is considered too 'iconic' to change now, but if I were rewriting the Morathi scroll I'd be tempted to have something where there's no wound cap, but Morathi-Khaine can summon a new Shadow Queen onto the board each round if it gets slain, or something along those lines.

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8 hours ago, LeviathanL said:

I haven't even got to play with this dok battletome yet and they announce the next one. Oh well, I wasn't sure if morathi-snakebows was gonna be fun or not in the first place.

This ^
The same thing happened with my 1st ed battletome to be fair. I just don’t really know people who game frequently..

I think it is unlikely we get a new Cauldron sculpt. All of our range (barring doomfire warlocks) are excellent, modern sculpts. If we were to get new sculpts I’d like either new warlocks or a new unit. Nevertheless, we have fairly decent visual range on the board. Another behemoth or larger monster besides Morathi would be dope since I don’t want to run her for thematic reasons.

Edited by Ggom
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24 minutes ago, Ggom said:

This ^
The same thing happened with my 1st ed battletome to be fair. I just don’t really know people who game frequently..

I think it is unlikely we get a new Cauldron sculpt. All of our range (barring doomfire warlocks) are excellent, modern sculpts. If we were to get new sculpts I’d like either new warlocks or a new unit. Nevertheless, we have fairly decent visual range on the board. Another behemoth or larger monster besides Morathi would be dope since I don’t want to run her for thematic reasons.

Given that Doomfires (and Witches/SoS) are in the dual box release with Nighthaunt, I'm assuming the current sculpts aren't being replaced.

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