AoS 3 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Chumphammer]

21 hours ago, Rebluff said:

So what do you think the best way to abuse the new Galarian Veterans mechanic (I know that's a pokemon region, I'm not changing it) so we get the benefits but none of the downsides?

Zainthar Kai fight on death to exploit the hell out of the +1 damage battalion?

Heart of Fury to completely negate the benefit of the +1 damage battalion?

Medusa/Hagg queen general to avoid making snakes battleline so they get the +1 damage against other batteline without being +1 damage against them?

2 damage lifetaker units chasing down their veterans with a 14" move and doing 10 damage with just the turn 3 Bloodrite buff, up to 20 with Mindrazor?

So many ways to get value at none of the cost!

Personally I am going to try this list:
1995pts
Army Faction: Daughters of Khaine
Subfaction: Zainthar Kai
Grand Strategy: Bloodthirsty Zealots
Triumph: Inspired

LEADERS
Bloodwrack Medusa (130)* - Spells: Mindrazor
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (270)* - General - Command Traits: Zealous Orator - Artefacts of Power: Crown of Woe - Prayers: Sacrament of Blood

Bloodwrack Medusa (130)* - Artefacts of Power: Crystal Heart - Spells: Shroud of despair

BATTLELINE
Blood Sisters (280) - Gorgai
Blood Sisters (280) - Gorgai
Blood Stalkers (180) - Krone
Blood Stalkers (180) - Krone
Blood Stalkers (180) - Krone

OTHER

Khinerai Heartrenders (95)
Khinerai Heartrenders (95)*

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Heart of Fury (45)
1 x Purple Sun of Shyish (70)
1 x Quicksilver Swords (90)

CORE BATTALIONS *Warlord, Expert Conquers, Booty Hunters
3 x stalkers in expert conquerors 2 x sisters and 1 x khinari in booty hunters

So Stalkers are my 3W unit to keep back objectives while I can push with Sisters

Khinari score 4 of my 5 battle tactics so they avoid the enemy to do that until they need to charge in to complete grand strat

Purple sun for yolo vs big stuff, block off space but mainly for Rend 1, as mixed with Mindrazor (if I can get them both off) and Booty hunters thats 3x2+/2+ Rend 3 D3 lol. but tbh ill never get them all off but options there

Quicksilver to be boosted with crystal heart and go hero hunting as its great vs some big threats out there as it goes off every hero phase 

[Chumphammer]

latest experience with DOK

Played Vs Archaon on Sat, high lights of the game were:

1: Purple sun: doing -1 AS to him turn 2-3 means my shooting was deadly and Combined with sisters, wiped his army out top of 2 (He went 1st and I got the double) 

Purple Sun also killed Archaon turn 3

2: Attack on death is awesome. He alpha striked knights and Gorebeast chariot and both were slapped down

3: Rally on 4+ is great. The Gorebeast took 5 stalkers to 1 and I rallied them back , and rallied back 4 sisters later on

4: MSU Worked well, with being able to splinter units off to deal with threats 

5: MW on 2+ is dirty 

[Kyriakin]

Have any of you guys built Doomfire Warlocks, and thus have the Dark Rider heads lying around?

Looking for the ones that kinda look like hoods/balaclavas.

Cheers,

 

[Chumphammer]

DOK FAQ is up

Morathi wording fixed:



Bloodwrack Viper lost its new monster ability

Cobra Kai attack back only works vs Melee attacks now 

[Baron Klatz]

That’s a pity about the Viper, being a summonable pseudo-monster made it pretty unique. 
 

I guess with the cheaper Endless spell changes a fast summon that can fly around to stomp and destroy stuff, on top of the quick group slays, was too good for an already potent faction. 
 

Would’ve been nice to get a replacement ability like the coils mean nearby units are trapped and can’t retreat or the like.

[Mcprowlington]

This is undoes a lot of the positive changes and wording that came with our battletome. I'm pretty mad. 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Mcprowlington

[KrispyXIV]

4 minutes ago, Mcprowlington said:

This is undoes a lot of the positive changes and wording that came with our battletome. I'm pretty mad. 

 

Can you be more specific about what this affects in DoK?

In general, order of operations means that most interactions are unaffected.  This mostly affects things like "Flaming Weapon + lance".

Things like Bucklers changing save characteristics are already in effect when modifiers are later applied, and therefore haven't changed a bit. 

[Mcprowlington]

8 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Can you be more specific about what this affects in DoK?

In general, order of operations means that most interactions are unaffected.  This mostly affects things like "Flaming Weapon + lance".

Things like Bucklers changing save characteristics are already in effect when modifiers are later applied, and therefore haven't changed a bit. 

I can understand your logic and it makes me feel a bit better, but I think it leaves the Gladiatrix aura sort of up in the air. 

Or atleast, it adds some dumb stuff like if a gladiatrix goes up to a unit it temporarily erases rend and wound buffs 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Mcprowlington

[KrispyXIV]

2 minutes ago, Mcprowlington said:

I can understand your logic and it makes me feel a bit better, but I think it leaves the Gladiatrix aura sort of up in the air

Yeah, that is a problematic example.  

Draichii is probably fine, but Mindrazors is in a weird spot.  And due to the abilities timing, suddenly there's a lot of problematic bookkeeping...

I suggest FAQing it, because it's and example that is clearly intended to stack. 

[Mutton]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:19 AM, Chumphammer said:

Bloodwrack Viper lost its new monster ability

Wtf why? It's not like most people were taking it even with that ability.

[Chumphammer]

On 7/8/2022 at 9:14 AM, Mutton said:

Wtf why? It's not like most people were taking it even with that ability.

We think its a mistake, especially when you look at purple sun at 70pts

The faq had a load of blank pages and i think they loaded it accidently with older scrolls 

[Tizianolol]

Guys a question. What happen to our shakes on " fight on death" faction if targetted by a strike and fate sylvaneth unit? Can we fight before die?:)

[Jaskier]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys a question. What happen to our shakes on " fight on death" faction if targetted by a strike and fate sylvaneth unit? Can we fight before die?:)

The Sylvaneth rule triggers after the unit has fought, which comes *after* you've allocated wounds / damage and removed slain models. The Zainthar Kai rule triggers when a model is slain, so I assume it would still be in the allocation part of fighting. I might be wrong but as a primarily Sylvaneth player I think you definitely get to hit them on death before they fade out. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Jaskier

[Lord Veshnakar]

Someone informed us today that the Bloodwrack Viper lost its monster ability and I see it referenced in posts up above. Could someone provide the document that this is referenced in?

Edited August 10, 2022 by Lord Veshnakar

[Leshoyadut]

7 hours ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

Someone informed us today that the Bloodwrack Viper lost its monster ability and I see it referenced in posts up above. Could someone provide the document that this is referenced in?

This was because of the FAQ document that was released. It looks like they forgot to delete the last couple of pages from the PDF properly, so the Bloodwrack Viper had its old warscroll listed. They fixed it a few days ago, so the battletome is the most current and accurate version, meaning it does still have its monstrous action.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Leshoyadut

[Tizianolol]

Guys how morathi and shadow queen work?

Every time little morathi or shadow queen take a wound i have to allocate that on shadow queen and she can take max 3 wound per turn right?

[zombiepiratexxx]

That's right. 

[Tizianolol]

Basically the fact little morathi got 6 wounds is irrelevant

[papagumdrop]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:16 PM, Tizianolol said:

Basically the fact little morathi got 6 wounds is irrelevant

For being killed no, but for how much she counts on objectives and battalion slots it matters. And for look out sir I think but that might not stack with commanding presence

[Leshoyadut]

Just had a game today against a friend. He played a non-shooting Lumineth list (he finds the ranged alpha strike style to be boring). I played a Witch Aelf heavy list with no Morathi. I don't remember what his grand strategy was, but it ultimately didn't matter, anyways.

His list (also had a Shrine Luminor, but that doesn't show up on War-Com):

Spoiler

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm-lords
- Great Nation: Ymetrica
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Alarith Stonemage (120)*
- General
- Command Trait: Unyielding Toughness
- Artefact: Molten Talisman
- Lore of the High Peaks: Living Fissure
- Lore of the High Peaks: Unbreakable Stoicism
Avalenor, the Stoneheart King (420)*
Scinari Enlightener (170)*
- Lore of Hysh: Protection of Hysh
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
The Light of Eltharion (240)*

Battleline
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (240)***
- Diamondpick Hammers
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (240)***
- Diamondpick Hammers
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (120)***
- Diamondpick Hammers

Units
5 x Vanari Bladelords (130)**
5 x Vanari Dawnriders (140)**
- Spell1: Lore of Hysh: Ethereal Blessing
- Spell2: Lore of Hysh: Total Eclipse
5 x Vanari Dawnriders (140)**
- Spell1: Lore of Hysh: Overwhelming Heat
- Spell2: Lore of Hysh: Protection of Hysh

Endless Spells & Invocations
Rune of Petrification (40)

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Bounty Hunters
***Expert Conquerors

Additional Enhancements
Spell

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
Drops: 10
 

And my list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron
- Grand Strategy: Bloodthirsty Zealots
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (130)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (110)*
- Prayer: Covenant of the Iron Heart
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (270)*
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (270)**
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
High Gladiatrix (90)**

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (345)*
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Witch Aelves (115)*
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch Aelves (115)**
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)**
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)**

Behemoths
Avatar of Khaine (155)*
Avatar of Khaine (155)**

Endless Spells & Invocations
Heart of Fury (45)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
Drops: 2

As I'm writing this up, I also realize that we both forgot triumphs, which would have gone to me by ten points. Woops.

Anyways. We played on In the Presence of Idols, and I won the die roll. Since he had a generally slower, lower damage army, I decided to take the first turn to either let me exercise my long threat range with the WAs, or if charges didn't work out, just let him have the early double turn to set me up for later. Both situations seemed fine to me with my screening WAs setup appropriately.

Round 1:

Spoiler

Round 1 turn 1 begins with me rolling a 1 on my Sacrament of Blood and failing my Mindrazor cast, but I did get Catechism and Heart of Fury off, placing the Heart near the center objective to cover the main fighting area. I moved 10 WAs and an Avatar along to a side objective (completing Against the Odds), didn't get any especially high run rolls, and decided discretion was the better part of valor, so no charges this turn. Screens setup, Cauldrons moved up, Gladiatrix in range, Heart blocking the cow man's approach, all that good stuff. I wanted to work on not overextending like I have in the past, so this seemed like a good spot to just hunker down until my next turn. Combat phase rolls up and my Heart goes away with a 6. F, but oh well.

Round 1 turn 2 starts up even worse than mine with my friend failing most of his spells, though he did manage to halve my 30 block's move characteristic, and me getting lucky unbinds on the last two. Youch. He decides to move up cautiously since he has none of his buffs going, grabbing the side objective I didn't get and pushing into the center just a little bit. He failed his battle tactic (don't remember which it was this turn), and we moved onto round 2. He rolled a 1, I rolled a 1, I win ties. With things a bit closer to me now, I decide to take round 2 first.

Round 2:

Spoiler

Round 2 turn 1 begins with me rolling another 1 for Sacrament of Blood, but this time getting all of my other prayers and Mindrazor off. Heart of Fury is in position, my 30 block is well buffed, I go with Clash of Arms for my tactic, I'm ready to rock. I get a little chip damage with torrents of blood after movement, get all but one of my charges off (I teleported a Hag Cauldron over to the side he controlled, and it failed), and headed into combat. I manage to get a thin, but full, wrap on Avalenor, and attack it with 25 of my 30 block. 76 attacks later, I end up with 18 damage on him despite an All Out Defense, killing him outright and setting the game heavily in my favor. Other fights go reasonably well for me, I lose my 10 WAs on the side, but nearly wipe the Dawnriders with my Avatar, and have an exchange between his Stoneguard in the center and my other 10 WAs. He does some damage to my 30 block with other nearby units, I use a CP during battleshock, and move on. I end this turn with 12 points because I got my tactic with 2 WA charges involved, plus I killed an idol, and he's at 4 because he killed the 10 block that was an idol, too.

Round 2 turn 2 starts with my friend currently in dire straits, and things not looking any better as he again struggles to get any spells off between some shockingly bad luck on his part and some good unbind rolls on mine. He picked An Eye for an Eye as his tactic toward my remaining unit of 10 WAs (then at 8 left), but fails to kill them with his Bladelords and Stoneguard. He does some chip damage to my stuff here and there, but generally struggles to make anything really happen at this point between lacking buffs, bad luck on his part, and good luck on my part. In response, the remains of my 30 block do some damage to his Light of Eltharion and kill 4 of his Dawnriders. He does steal the side objective I had, but it's just not enough as he is now up to 7 points to my 12 with the army balance noticeably in my favor. We decide to roll off for round 3, I win again and he decides to concede here.

Obviously, with how things went, if he had managed to get even one or two of his other spells off, things would have been very different. If he could have gotten gotten the 5+ ward on the Stone King, it would have almost certainly survived, barring some incredibly bad luck. If he had gotten a Total Eclipse off, I would have had a lot more trouble having the CP to confirm battleshock. If, if, if. Lot of bad luck for him, sadly.

That said, I think it was still a good showing for my list. Doing 18 damage into Avalenor despite him ignoring my rend was incredible, and surprisingly not that much above average (which was 16.89 compared to the 18 I did) in that situation. My Avatars were great as usual; they do enough damage to not be ignorable, but are durable enough to stay in the fight pretty well. The Hag Cauldrons didn't even get the chance to get in, but I've seen them do work in past games. The foot Hag obviously did its job with summoning the Heart of Fury multiple times and providing Witchbrew; any combat prowess it has would have simply been a bonus beyond that.

The thing I'm happiest with, though, is the Bloodwrack Medusa. I decided to try this setup on it in games against another friend and managed to have truly awful luck with never actually successfully casting Mindrazor (not even getting unbound, just rolling very badly) despite having over an 80% chance to work. Getting it off in this game was super satisfying and definitely justified the 130 points. I suspect it'd be in a tougher spot if my opponent had shooting, but thankfully that didn't really come up this game. Will definitely need more testing against heavier shooting lists in the future.

All in all, a reasonably fun game, though my friend's bad luck did put a damper on both of our spirits. I do like winning, but I also like seeing my opponent do well.

[Vasshpit]

Khainite shadowstalkers up in sales and trade. 

[Fyrm]

So, I’ve been thinking on the implications of what we’ve seen of Galatian Champions. Our foot heroes getting to fight in the hero phase is very nice. But I feel like the biggest winner is Blood Sisters. Not only does this allow us to get them attacking in the hero phase, thus triggering their turn to crystal, it makes the Ironscale’s buff that requires she fight first and kill something much more viable! Now it’s not a choice of fight with sisters at full strength or fight with Ironscale first to potentially buff but open yourself to losing models. You just have Sisters bodyguard Ironscale and they fight right after her. 

[Tzanna]

The only bad thing is the new price of the Blood Sisters....

[Fyrm]

I mean, given everything I already pointed out, I think it still nets out pretty good for them. 10 points per 10 increase for a lot of viability buffs. 

[Tango Trooper]

Shadowstalkers on the way out for 4th? Been informed they are classified as no longer available by my supplier.