3.0 Actual Games Conversation

[NinthMusketeer]

I don't think anyone wants 40k levels of rend. But AoS has more units that deal MWs than units with rend -2 or better and that is completely absurd.

IMO, mortal wounds should not be dealt on the hit roll except for very niche cases. It allows the unit to skip rolling to wound and armor saves, which is too much. I would flat-out eratta all abilities that currently deal MWs on the hit roll to instead wound automatically. Make it so MWs from attacks are only triggering on the wound roll. Skipping one step of the attack sequence is ok, skipping two is not.

[yukishiro1]

The lack of symmetry between all out attack and all out defense, and more generally between save-boosting and rend-boosting, seems weird. All out attack should have been an additional rend, or at least the choice of either +1 to hit or an additional rend. The current implementation makes 3+ armor saves too powerful vs non MW, and therefore requires MW to be on just about everything as a means of bypassing the artificially strong save the game has created for itself. 

 

[Liquidsteel]

1 hour ago, yukishiro1 said:

Small point, but unless I've just missed it reading it over several times, priests can't unbind in 3.0 - they can dispel endless spells, but not unbind. 

I mean, some of them can because they have it on their warscroll - e.g. runepriests - but it's not standard based on the keyword. 

You're right. I did question it, and we had the reference sheet there, but both misread it in our haste.

[Elmir]

Did two days of testing.

 

One 2v2 game with three mates who hadn't played AoS all that much in AoS2 to begin with... They all pretty much said the game was a lot more complex and that wasn't always a good thing, especially to the 2 guys who mostly play 40k and always saw AoS as the more relax game.

 

Second 2k game to test out the GHB rulespack of Seraphon vs OBR. Yes, there is more things to do, even in the enemy hero phase and it's definitely something to get used to. The game took very long (close to 4 hours)

 

Not to sure how I feel about battle tactics. It caused some choice paralysis, dragging out the game and in the mission we played, they almost felt like they overtook the primary objectives. I'm not sure what the mission was called, but it was 3 objectives that you could only grab with heroes... And when of them got destroyed in turn 3, battle tactics almost felt too important compared to primary objectives. 

[baiardo]

9 minutes ago, Elmir said:

Second 2k game to test out the GHB rulespack of Seraphon vs OBR. Yes, there is more things to do, even in the enemy hero phase and it's definitely something to get used to. The game took very long (close to 4 hours)

 

Who win and how you see OBR in the new edition?

[Elmir]

2 minutes ago, baiardo said:

Who win and how you see OBR in the new edition?

The OBR did. But my opponent did not take a very hard list. He did field kroak with 5 babysitters, but not with the astrolith bearer and spellportal shennanigans. He took an engine, 2 bastilladons, 10 skinks, 10 saurus warriors and 10 saurus knights (a unit that performed surprisingly well with all their attacks coupled with 6 to wounds being mortal wounds for their pricepoint)

I ran Arkhan, Katakros, 20+10+10 Mortek guard, crawler and 4 morghast harbingers for speed and reach. It did perform quite well. Never fully able to deplete my RDP, but when you generate like 10-13 each battleround, I  consider that a "first world luxury problem" when you aren't bound by resources. 

Not being able to stack both offensive and defensive CA on mortek does hurt them for sure... But they still performed admirably and with Katakros' endless duty, you just had to choose to go defensively through shield wall or go offensive with an extra attack. It's probably not bad for the overall health of the game that it's a choice now for arguably still one of the most solid battle lines, rather than them being both anvil and blender in one unit simultaneously. 

[baiardo]

3 minutes ago, Elmir said:

I ran Arkhan, Katakros, 20+10+10 Mortek guard, crawler and 4 morghast harbingers for speed and reach.
 

Congratz, the morghast survivability was good?What would you change in your list in case?

[Elmir]

Just now, baiardo said:

Congratz, the morghast survivability was good?What would you change in your list in case?

 

The morghast survivability wasn't stellar. As soon as those bastilladons took aim, I did lose 2 of them and the other was badly wounded. But with arkhan/katakros, the wounds hardly mattered. 

I wouldn't take 4 again in a single unit again though. I tried it to buff them with Katakros' +1A CA as well, but they moved too fast and ended up out of range of him too often. 3D6 charge is great though and I would still like to keep some in my army, as I don't think they are a horrible choice now at 185p.

I would probably dump 2 of the harbingers, merge the two blocks to 10 mortek guard to a single block of 20 and add 5 kavalos deathriders in (more possibilities to dump RDP into as well) for added speed. 

[JackStreicher]

I had another game yesterday 1500 of my Har Kuron (test) VS Seraphon.

The game was fun! The interactivity of Heroic Actions and monstrous rampages really make a difference.

This was also my first game against a „shooting“ army.

I played:

Medusa on Shrine (2spells)

Sorceress (one spell)

Sorceress on Black Dragon (General, 2 spells and can chant the prayer)

20 Black Guard, 10 Executioners, 5 Bow Snakes, Scourge Runner, Hydra

 

Opponent

Slann

Starpriest

Veteran on Carno

Skinkpriest on Engine (General)

Bastilladon

5 Guard, 2x 10 skinks, Terradons

 

I gave him first turn, he spiked his dice and my main unit received 17 hits of the double shooting, coalesced bastilladon and was pretty much wiped. Star Priest and Slann spiked their comets and dealt another 14 wounds to my army. At this point I had lost ~ 20 of my army 90 wounds.

In my turn I failed the prayer with a one. My Medusa was supposed to tank the Guard, the Bastille and the Terradon. I was surprised  since I thought the terras needed a normal move for their bombs, yet piling in was enough... my Medusa failed all her All out Defense bolstered saves and died to the 5 temple guard after receiving the Terradon bombs.

Turn two: he got priority and spiked his bastilla again. I had 3 Black Guard left now and I rolled zero sixes for Rally. His engine charged my Hydra which dealt 7 wounds to it while receiving 10 itself. My mage miscasted... his Carnosaur and now charging bastilladon wiped my Scourgerunner, my Executioners and my Sorceress. 
 

Bottom of 3 I was wiped and he had lost the Carnosaur, 2 Temple Guard and 1 Skink. He won 18 to 8.

 

well what am I supposed to say. My list was a Test list so not that strong and I rolled really poorly (failed almost all armour saves, miscasted, rolled a 1 for the prayer two times and was utterly incapable of rolling 6s except when it came to damage I took)

Yet, the new Commands bolster shooting as well and the one bastilladon had wiped 1/2 of my army by turn 2 combined with the map-wide mortal wound Spam of the mages... well. I was also starved of CPs while he had 5-6 all the time (2 for rolling too well for the Slann and 1 for the Star priest.

So in the end a mixture of WTF shooting and the stark contrast of rolling like a god all the time VS my usual roles.

It was also my first time vs shooty lizards. My gf usually plays melee lizards. Imo my Soulblight would have wiped his army, however hat Luton lacked the bodies, the damage and the numbers to deal with his list ^^
 

Yet as I said: fun game and very nice opponent 👍🏻

Edited July 10, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Skreech Verminking]

I’m pretty exited to play my skaven against a friends tzeentch collections.

Considering that the skaven have just gotten a ton of buffs (even if plague monks are pretty useless right now), there is a ton of stuff I’m very keen on trying out.

especially the many new tricks we have up our sleeves with the new ruled gnawhole.

will be hilarious to see my opponent struggling to get through them

[greg19190]

Played the first game of 3rd edition aos... It was a 3 way with me playing skaven against obr and ogers 1000 points. Ogres were a blob of gluttens with tyrant and butcher and ironguts. The obr was soul mason, the reaper looking hero 20 mortec 10 mortec gulthezar harvester  and morghast with swords. Skaven was molder 2 master molders, pack masters, 2 Wolf rats, 4 rat ogrers, 3 giant rats, hellpit. Hellpit had the 7 move and charge with prize creations, rat ogres had toughend sinews. 

[greg19190]

Grand strategies were prized sorcery for obr, ogres and skaven was hold the line, First battle round everyone picked the ferocious advance. Ogres went first moved up the bord and held 2 objectives (center worth 2 outer ones worth 1) Obr went second and moved up a little and Castled up arround scenery in there corner with the main lot of mortec facing the center against the ogres. Skaven moved up and put some Wolf rats through a gnaw hole. 

[greg19190]

Second battle round skaven and ogres took conquer as well as obr but they failed to get it. Skaven went first and took the center and Wolf rats got in to and killed a harbingers, obr went next and killed the Wolf rats still not moving to much. Ogres charged the center and took it back, aswell as a flank. Skaven 9 obr 4 ogres 8

[greg19190]

3rd battle round skaven took savage spear head, ogres took broken ranks obr took aggressive expansion obr failed to get theres. Obr went first retreating the mortec back and same with the harbinger and shifted over the 20 mortec to the ogres gulthezar harvester smashed a gnaw hole, got off mystic shield on 20 mortec. Charged ogres and held them up for the rest of the game not able to shift them. Ogres hit back but didn't Reay do much apart from killing the reaper looking hero. Skavens hellpit smashed a unit of 10 mortec and a harbinger (7 move and 7 charge is so useful) more gnaw hole sinanigans. 

[greg19190]

Turn 4 skaven took aggressive expansion ogres took savage spear obr took broken ranks. Skaven went first having got units back put more Wolf rats on the attack nearly killing the tyrant and walled arround the hellpit with the pack masters and rat ogres went in to the back of the gluttens (bs immune from bully) did 20 Wounds... Ogres smacked them back killing all but 2. Obr went next taking the ogres object and not dieing. Ogres smacked the rest of the rat ogres and they came back... 

[greg19190]

Turn 5 skaven took monsters take over obr took bring it down and ogres took slay the warlord, only ogres get there battle tactic. was a scramble of obr getting out of the way of the ogres so they could try and dog pile in to the skaven. Ogres took out all the screens and killed master molder with tyrant (bad positioning with Wolf rats may have aided in the mm death) hellpit smashed the remaining 5 ogres. Skaven then took flanking objectives and games ended with skaven and ogres and obr completing there grand strategies. 

[greg19190]

Final scores skaven 26 ogres 22 obr 16. Mobility and bringing stuff back was the key in a smaller battle field for skaven, hellpit was super good with the +1 to wound triumph and +1 to hit cp. The battalions are good vanguard was chosen for more consistent movement and helped the giant rats screen and take objectives easier, whilst it helped the ogres charge better. Obr took battle regiment but it didn't help them. There was no real shooting but if there was the Battle regiment would have realy helped with that. Mortec with harvester and mystic shield are still solid. Heroic recovery super strong on ogre heroes with maw pot. 

 

Game was VERY FUN 

[Ganigumo]

I've gotten 2 games in so far. One as spiderfang vs khorne mortals, and one as BoC vs soulblight (this one was 2500 points on the old board size) and got demolished in both by casual lists (not that surprising given what I was playing) Had fun playing regardless. Games definitely took longer but I'm not sure if that's just learning new rules or not.

My biggest complaint is still coherency. It's just a pain to play with and takes up way too much headspace when moving/piling in, plus the change doesn't really bring anything positive to the game.

Grand strategies are boring, battle tactics are neat.

 

On 7/5/2021 at 11:01 PM, yukishiro1 said:

I did have one game that resembles what the guy's describing, but in the opposite way. It was against FEK. I just absolutely blew them away with my Tempest's Eye list, it wasn't pretty. There was just nothing he could do except watch everything die. He killed maybe 400ish points of my army before I effectively tabled him at the end of T3. 

That said, I think FEK got screwed more by the edition change than any other faction. I just don't see how they ever win a game at this point, they have absolutely nothing going for them. Comfortably the worst army in the game at this point, IMO. 

Gitz and BoC were already low tier armies that got slammed by the changes. Non archaon khorne also got hurt bad as even bloodreavers are on 32s and their priests went from 3 prayers a turn to 1. Yeah FeC might've got hit hard but they're nowhere near BoC (or spiderfang) Levels of bad. FeC just doesn't really have any proper answers to shooting. 

[yukishiro1]

I dunno, maybe FEC is stronger in a raw stats kind of way, but they also seem even more hopeless to me.  I feel like with BoC and Gitz you can at least kind-of play the game, even if they're weak.  They would work if they were just a bit less bad. Whereas for FEC...I don't see how this army is ever going to work in this edition without a new battletome that completely rewrites them. 

[RedemptionUK]

Played a game of SCE v Ironjawz on The Vice. Definitely prefer 3.0 where is feels like you're playing the game still on the opponent's turn (getting doubled in 2.0 when that results in an hour + of you doing little outside of rolling dice and removing models against a shooting army was a real NPE in my mind. 

The game was incredibly close, and came down to a failed charge in turn 5 for Ironjawz to try and maybe take the lead after a very  back and forth game where Ironjawz was in front for the majority of the game. The game feels like your initial turns are setting up for the later turns rather than smash face turn 1/2 and hope for a double to cripple the other army into being useless and is in general more fun. But maybe that's because our lists weren't hyper tuned and weren't top tier competitive.

Playing around potential redeploys also made for a more tactical approach with my evocators. (Do I move them forward closer than 9 inches away and risk making the charge harder, or do I stay 9.1 away and make it a 6 inch charge with gavriel.

[whispersofblood]

On 7/9/2021 at 5:27 PM, yukishiro1 said:

The lack of symmetry between all out attack and all out defense, and more generally between save-boosting and rend-boosting, seems weird. All out attack should have been an additional rend, or at least the choice of either +1 to hit or an additional rend. The current implementation makes 3+ armor saves too powerful vs non MW, and therefore requires MW to be on just about everything as a means of bypassing the artificially strong save the game has created for itself. 

 

I think the real lack of symmetry is due to the fact that saves rolls are the least influencial roll. All Out Attack influences the full stack, All out Attack the bottom of the stack . Realistically All out Defence should be -1 to hit rolls or - 1 A to a minimum of 1 to be as beneficial, or relevant, alternatively a ward would have been interesting.  

[Ragest]

My community is pretty big and we have 4-5 matches everyday on tts, and what we are seeing is that our first thoughts about the meta are completely wrong.

We have 2 guys that play seraphon, both have won several tournaments in 2nd, both are losing almost every match in 3rd.

Fec, Slaneesh and Sylvaneth are having big success, same as maw+kragnos lists.

Dok is still strong, Gargants are just broken and Ogors are damm good. Kharadron is still a thing, Archaon switched to slaves with the tzeentch mark and is winning a lot, but fyreslayers are just depressed, we have 0 lumineth players from 3 (I switched aswell to Sylvaneth/Dok) and another tournament winner that plays idoneth is struggling a lot.

This is just crazy.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Ragest

[stratigo]

3 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

I think the real lack of symmetry is due to the fact that saves rolls are the least influencial roll. All Out Attack influences the full stack, All out Attack the bottom of the stack . Realistically All out Defence should be -1 to hit rolls or - 1 A to a minimum of 1 to be as beneficial, or relevant, alternatively a ward would have been interesting.  

"Save rolls are the least influential"

 

This is how you can tell a LRL player.

 

 

[whispersofblood]

6 hours ago, stratigo said:

"Save rolls are the least influential"

 

This is how you can tell a LRL player.

 

 

I'm not an anything player, or should we get into a pissing contest counting our event appearances and factions appearances? I can assure you my nether regions are suffeciently swoll. 

It's simple math, bonuses to save influence the smallest pool of dice and therefore have the lowest influence on outcomes. 

[Boar]

2 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

It's simple math, bonuses to save influence the smallest pool of dice and therefore have the lowest influence on outcomes. 

Your math is wrong however.

If we assume your unit that you want to buff has 4+ to hit, than +1 to hit will increase overall damage by 33%.

The same BTW will happen for increase in wound roll. Due to how it works in AoS hit roll is interchangable with wound roll.

Defending unit moving from 4+ to 3+ save will need to suffer 50% more damage to be destroyed, of course assuming no rend.

Save works as damage reduction, and math is different there, than it is with hit/wound rolls.