AoS 3 - how does your army fare?

[Perturbato]

Completly subjective pov of mine as a BoK :

- It won't counter the actual shooting meta (for every downgrade there is an upgrade)

- Why did they touch my beloved prayers, judgement and slaughterpriests ?? They make a big article on how priests are good but until FAQ or new battletome my actual priests are nerfed !

- my army was using the slaughterborn battalion that maked bloodwarriors and skullreapers more resilient now they are back to "meh" units that won't resist much to enemy fire.

- i will paint/play a new army of daemon bloodthirster in a matter i hope to be NPE until it changes.

 

That was my frustrated subjective pov and on another hand in France we says something like "fools don't like to change/switch/update"

[NauticalSoup]

57 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Mystic shield is pretty redundant in bonesplitterz now, they have a +1 to save lore spell, the shields give +1 to save, and the wardokk dance is +1 to save. Plus bonesplitterz did have some good battalions, the loss of kunnin rukk is going to hurt particularly badly for archers.

Kunnin Rukk was pretty decent but I'd already stopped using that as well (too large a points investment for the benefit), and given that it's very optional many other armies are hurt much worse.

The save rolls thing is definitely a problem but I'll be surprised if the wording for the bone shields doesn't change - it wasn't written with a maximum bonus in mind, and it should really change their save characteristic to 5+ instead of adding one to the roll putting it in direct conflict with buffs. In the meantime you can throw +1 on more stuff instead, or hedge against the -1 rend every army has on every unit these days 😛

[peasant]

Horrible for nurgle's munificient wanderers as a lot of units become inmune to receiving mw on 6 to hit

[Elmir]

My FEC: New monsterrules are awesome from grisstlegore, but only a single trigger on 6 means the terrorgheist is now a less obvious choice to a zombie dragon imo. Flayers and horrors in a very rough spot now. 

SBGL: will be fine. Was written with the new edition in mind. I can see bloodknights causing a lot of teeth gnashing in the near future. 

OBR: wait for the FAQ of course, but a lot of funky new mechanics are generic CA abilities and they can't use them... Mortek guard are some of the strongest infantry in the game now I think (with 25mm bases as "hidden stat" and battleline for triple units), so they'll still remain strong. 

My NH: army heavily reliant on 32mm based infantry blobs and one that cannot benefit from all those juicy increases to armour saves (for now) and only a single FW model that is a monster : can't see it ending too well for them. 

[Honk]

Flesh Eater Courts took a big hit…

We had pretty good battalions (mordants, deadwatch, ghoul patrol) that are gone…

the only 1 specific CA per phase hits our ability to use feeding frenzy multiple times

exploding 6s in gristlegore collide with the terrorgheists maw

our main damage dealers units (flayers/horrors) are on big bases with 1“ reach and are usually only a threat at 6-9 models

The small model range gives us no options for extra (useful) support heroes, fe my vyrkos Soulblight Army can have up to 4 counts as general easily.

not really thrilled right now 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

Beasts of Chaos have always been bad. It's our thing. The editions may roll on but we're an unchanging constant, with a legacy of suckage that hearkens back to the World-That-Was.

The unsung, uncelebrated servants of Chaos.

[Doko]

I have  many armys so i gonna say my tougth in everyone:

 

1--city of sigmar:: my main army,overall if shootimg units get the same 10% nerfs than we think every unit gonna take and not a extra it gonna be great. My heavy dwarf army had all battleline so reinforcements arent a problem and new overwatch gonna be overpower with my irondrakes+hurricanum combo.

The supposed nerf to priest dont hurt my runelord because we havent prayers in the book and only the warscroll.

The coherency gonna hurts a lot of for my screens but in combat we have all in 25mm so we gonna be better than others.

2-- fyreslayers::my second army(im a dwarfs lover)and......have been destroyed and is useless in the next edittion,even i could say unplayable.

Reinforcement hurts us the most of every army.

We lost the best battallion of all aos(lords of the lodge)

Our behemots are bads so new monster rules arent usefull for us.

New priest rules nerf us pretty hard.

Overwatch and run away hurts us a lot of as we are full melles and slows.

Overall every change of next edittion seems done to delete us and points wont change nothing.

 

3--stormcast:: overall ok,as elite units the coherency and rinforcement dont hurts us so much.

I usually dont play them a lot so i could be wrong.

 

4--soulbligth vampires:: great,all was nerfed from lon to new tome as we were pretty middle tier, but if we dont get points nerfs we gonna be pretty better now.

Also many rules were nerfs from nagash,but seem were done with this edittion in mind.

Overall maybe one of the best the next edittion

[BigNStinky]

As long as points don't change for megas in my *Sons of Behemat army it is exclusively buffs. Makes the original points cost on my Megas make sense if these are the buffs they get in the new edition.

Extra monster actions, extra hero actions, better generic artifacts to make use of, battalions we can actually use, lots of rules to mess with coherency while basically ignoring coherency ourselves. Big buff in the form of stacking -1 to hit disappearing while simultaneously more options to defend ourselves and give us +1 to hit/save. Some generic healing that can be attempted each turn to get more out of them. A bigger premium on rend (which we have in spades). Smaller board to get stuck in faster and start the attrition game while still keeping our capturing rules on steroids. More command points on average to spend in a faction starved for points originally. Its just buffs all the way down.

I am a bit afraid they will destroy what little list building potential we have by making the megas more expensive though. I do not think it will come to pass but its a definite fear.

Edited June 16, 2021 by BigNStinky

[Gauche]

Kharadron Overlords

Mostly big buffs or side-grades. The only nerf that was taken is the change to Triumphs, which is a big deal but it's easily survivable.

Monsters - Faction has none but is good at killing them and doesn't bring a Faction Terrain piece. More Monsters just helps matchups.

Heroes - Very hard to remove KO Heroes now that they can heal if needed (at times), +W works on Guns and Melee, and you can grab an additional Dispel when needed.

Command Abilities - Most of the KO ones are pretty weak so the new baseline ones are great and make up for some of the loss of Triumphs. Redeploy is the strongest just across the board and KO use it very well with so much access to FLY. Obviously Unleash Hell can be very strong as well with Thunderers.

Enhancements - Very nice, some of the basic ones are great. Particularly being able to make a model a Wizard opens up Mystic Shield on Thunderers/Ironclad and again helps with the loss of Triumphs. Ghost-Mist is also extremely underrated as a toolbox spell for the army.

Terrain - No big changes to LoS and so on (besides Wyldwoods which was already known) so a win there. More Terrain makes FLY better so that would be a win.

Warscroll/Core Battalions - Losing these is a huge buff to KO because they lose nothing while some other armies lose a lot. Core Battalions are great since you can either load up on our good Artefacts or go hard on a few drops and take priority. The other Cores aren't very useful just in general and KO are not the exception to that.

Unit Coherency/Pile In - No real changes here as KO doesn't run big units generally. Arkonauts lose some luster as a screen but we'll see how GHB '21 shakes out in that regard.

Miscast/Endless Spells - Miscasts are a big win since we don't generally do Magic and enemies taking MWs makes them easier to snipe out. Endless Spells being lessened might weaken Spell in a Bottle but that wouldn't be a huge loss since there are other strong Artefacts. Less MWs from Spells is more of a help to survivability than a nerf to offense.

Smaller Table - While seen as bad for Shooting Armies KO is extremely fast/re-deployable. You have to play Objectives anyways so there really isn't a huge change except that Missions seem to be starting players closer together. That has pluses and minuses since KO has a lot of medium ranged guns and can easily screen but will likely have more problems getting to a soft flank.

Objectives - Models with over 5 Wounds counting as two models is a buff, especially for Gunhaulers.

------------------------------------------------------

Overall I don't feel like KO really lost anything. You can dump Thunderers into an Ironclad as many already did and while the Triumph loss hurts there are other things gained. Screening with ~2 Gunahulers, one getting All-Out Defense and the other getting Mystic Shield will be very annoying especially because you can just cycle them and heal them. While Command Traits are hard-capped Artefacts are wide open and the army has a lot of good ones. It feels like our Magic defense went up and Shooting is the same but different since Aethergold isn't that important. And being so fast with some of the Mission wrinkles we've seen such as the disappearing Objective is consistently strong. Looking good for KO barring big point changes beyond what others get or very strange Missions.

[Nart]

For Seraphon... it is complicated. We both lost and gained so much, it is almost impossible to judge how will they fair. But I feel far from meta kings they used to be. 

Starborne armies got a possiblity to gather in low drops (even in single, but it requires too many sacrifices). Warlord battalions allows access to additional artefact without any effort. Draco's tail won't be changing much. Skinks are now 30 max and salamanders are up to two per unit, so I expect to see more MSU, but overall all pieces are in place. Fangs now can basically overwatch twice with two different command abilites, giving skinks another shooting phase. 

In general, it looks like starborne will adjust lists to new restrictions and capitalize on new enhancements.

Things are a way more complicated for Coalesced. The were built entirely around stacking command abilities. In 2nd lack of command points was the problem - you never had enough to do all you need. Now they will be swimming in command points but won't be able to use them. Koatl's Claw was the worst subfaction so far, but allowed for some fun combos with overbuffed saurus/knights blocks with decent battalions. Now they've lost all of that and received nothing in return.  Thunderlizard, however, while lost battalion and ability to double-tap two bastiladons, now can enjoy monster rampages and hero actions on mounted heroes. Also, with stegaddon battleline they have access to interesting battalion combinations.

Kroak is still very viable, despite new core changes hurting him a lot. He can't receive cover, he can't be garrisoned, he is visible behind woods, he doesn't get look-out. His new Dead for Innumerable Ages is simply too random. And he his a very-very slight chance to die from his own miscast in the end of same phase. Still, his casts/unbinds stack is insane, his access to the whole lore is very flexible (if endless spells become popular, Drain Magic will be an unpleasent surprise for many), he generates tons of CP and can command to d3 units to gain fly. Also, his price hike may be not that large if all other units in game get a hike too. The main problem so far is just a single army - lumineth have very easy time killing him quickly even with guard. Slann is a poor man's Kroak. Kroak often has been taken for CP generation and universal unbinds. Slann can do this as good now. New corebook artefacts allows him to gain 5+ ward or additional cast. He can be hidden behind woods, can garrison into realmshaper and benifits from look out! and cover. I expect to see him more often, especially in coalesced lists. 

Saurus heroes on foot could be interesting. Sunblood is clear winner. His command ability affects enemy units and it is rare +1 to-wound (seraphon have access to lots of +1 to-hit which are useless now). He is a great beastick himself and with new command abilities and heroic actions is very hard to shift. Oldblood could be interesting, if he had anything left to buff. His CA can buff another unit with +1 to-hit without expending All-out attack. But why would anyone bother? Koatl's claw already gains +1 to-hit on charge and has a command ability to get +1 to-hit if being charged. And you can have only 2 blocks of saurus now. Guy is shelved till new battletome. Nothing new for Eternity Warden - worse than oldblood as a hero, worse than guard as a character. 

Saurus are terminated. Literally. They were mediocre at beast and relied on battalions, command abilities and struggled to get all models into combat. Now with reinfocements you can field max two blocks of 30 instead of 40/40/20 and with new coherency rules they simply won't reach their target. 

Mounted Saurus heroes are great both in Koatl's Claw and thunder lizard. Both of them has unique command abilities and can buff themselves or nearby knights. New 5+ ward artefact can bring them to a level of stonehorne, or even better in thunderlizard (14 wounds, 5+ ward, easy access to 3+ save and -1 damage atop of it). They can combine rampages and monster actions to an intersting combinations. The problem is the jaws are even more random, since they cannot go to 2+ to-hit any more at all and -1 rend will be negated too often in the new world of stacking saves. 

Knights, while suffering the main problems of saurus, are not hit as much. They can still be taken as 3x10 or 2x15 and get more than half models in combat with different weird formations. They lost quite a lot of possible buffs, but still hit hard in KC. Lots of attacks without rend are more interesting now because of save hard cap. They are still out of tournaments, but you can still have some fun with them, unlike saurus. 

Guard is mostly where it was, but after Saurus nerf I can at least look at them. It is possible to take 1-2 blocks of 15. Kroak wants to be protected as much as possible, and large block of guard with him can be more common case. They already had 3+ to-hit and didn't need stacking command abilities at all. With sunblood, all out attack, scar veteran and starpriest they can dish quite a few gamage. They still suffer from 32mm bases and new coherency, but honeycombing shouldn't be much of a problem. Still not a competitive choice at all, unless taken as Slann's bodyguards.

Skink heroes were the core heroes of the book, second after Kroak. And npw they are even better. Starpriest will have to carry the book by himself - seraphon don't have much rend above 1 and it will be negated in lots of cases. Mortal wounds are even more important then before. Both Celestial Harmony and Hand of glory have more weight now - you cannot spam Inspiring Presense and rerolls are rare. Even Bind Endless spell can see more play now. I can see two being taken. Priest can now actually chant prayers - giving 6+ ward to a bunch of skinks without trying to fit them in astrolith's aura is huge as well as additional healing for monsters. High Priest WT can be easily taken in thunderlizard (Master of Star rituals is not as important, since there's a lot of CP now) and if Starstone Staff becomes a prayer, it is a very reliable way to get run+charge. Starseer is still great and now, when Kroak/slann are not as important for CP generation, we probably will see this guys more often. When anyone can stack +1 to saves, getting -1 with Control Fate is even more important. But still, Priest and Starpriest are more important.

Skinks are not going anywhere, They are hit by reinforcement limits and +1 save cap (shields give them +1 to rolls), but 60 shots are 60 shots. Unleash hell gives them another shooting phase and especially good with priest's CA. Mortal wounds are important, and with Starvenom they can inflict a lot of them. Hard to actually to pull off, but with Curse Prayer they can MWs both on hit and wound rolls of 6. They benifit from all the new command abilities and doesn't suffer much from new coherency. Taking clubs instead of shields may be more viable now. 

Chameleon skinks are in a weird spot. Their cover ability now only give them 5+ save instead of 3+. And it is for 1 wound 18 pts model. They have to be FAQed. Otherwise, nothing  much is changed for them. 

Sky cavalry got worse. Not only the units are limited to 6, but you have to actually spend reinforcement points on them, instead of skinks or salamanders. While 6 terradons still can be a threat, 6 ripperdactyls are even worse than they have been before.

Nothing much changed for hunging packs. Salamanders can be only killed by price hike. And yes, they can overwatch now too.  You cannot take a unit of 3 anymore, but that's not a big deal - they are very effective as MSU too. Razordons are just salamanders -1. If they are cut by new prices, I can see chameleons taking their place.

Bastiladons got a nerf - no more ignore rend. But you can easily imitate that with Mystic Shield/All out Defense. No double-tapping two of them in Thunderquake, but they will more reliably hit on 3+. With Thunderquake they lost mobility, which can be somewhat replaced with new Ghur Battalion, but it is not nearly as good. They also benifit from monster rampages. So, have to look at prices first, but we may see only one of them in thunder lizard now. 

Stegadons are pure winners. They are conditional battleline, they want to get close, they get rampages. They hit hard, they can shoot. Finally, with bastiladons got a nerf, so I expect Stegadons to take their place.

Skink mounted heroes are winners as well, since they ride stegadons.   Skink Chief got so much stuff to play with without being any worse and EotG is not far behind. I expect to see them a lot in thunder lizard. Trog is more interesting as an Arcane Vassal to Kroak. With new healing, artefacts and defensive abilities he can survive for several turns to channel destructive magic from Kroak. But he still lacks damage potential.

Kroxigors look like winners. Despite new coherency rules, they won't have problems reaching enemies with 2" mauls. And after losing a single model they are free to do what they want. Their battle synergy ability is now can be imitated by all-out attack. Maybe we will see these guys a bit more.

Finally, Dread Saurian - best general and strategic genius of the old ones. Yes, it is a totema, so it technically can issue commands until FAQed. He didn't receive that much new - +1 to-hit on his jaws from all out-attack is great and +1 save from mystic shield/all out defense is easier to get than taking a starseer. Rampages are nice, but it doesn't get much from them, unfortunately. 

 

Overall, I feel that army can struggle with new +1 save spam. But Seraphon are good at spamming +1 saves too. Expect to see lots of monsters with good saves and nimble skinks, supporting them with mortal wounds. All will be decided by prices now, but now army looks like strong and interesting, but not broken. Unfortunately, some weaker choices become even weaker and stronger units are even more important, so promised deversity are not the case for Seraphon. 

[Rors]

My main army is slaves to darkness and I'm really looking forward to how much better chariots will be.

Chariots are great against small units and the new coherency rules means if you use them to counter charge a unit already bin combat you can position them to hit one model in the back corner. Chariot still does it's mortal wounds and all of its attacks but only one model will be able to fight back. Same goes for all monsters we have like mindstealers. Our cheap and small monsters still get a 3 inch range on stomp to, so you can sit behind a screen and do d3 mortals every charge phase.

Our heros and their auras so synergise really well with the new edition.

[LegolasisKing]

My main army is LRL and this edition looks solid for us. 

Hero's: This gives all LRL hero's ways to heal when we only had 1 way to heal previously from the lore of wind. This makes both Avalanor and Eltharion last longer along with making Teclis survive longer. 

Monsters: It buffs both Teclis and Avalanor along with Alarith however these changes make our shrine weaker.

All of our Vanari naturally are in coherency while they are shining company. however it makes it harder to get out of shining company because we have to move out of it or take casualties out of it.

The shooting and board size changes makes Sentinels better. With helon it means with unleash hell we get 38 shots with the archers if they get charged and its impossible to hide from the archers.

[Vaporlocke]

4 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

Beasts of Chaos have always been bad. It's our thing. The editions may roll on but we're an unchanging constant, with a legacy of suckage that hearkens back to the World-That-Was.

The unsung, uncelebrated servants of Chaos.

Started at the bottom... And we haven't moved since 6th ed fantasy. 

[Sleboda]

There's a bit of a discussion of this going on over in the Death subforums. This is what I posted there before seeding this thread (where it also makes sense to post, so I will) -

Bonereapers are in a very, very bad place and I don't expect help from GW for the foreseeable future.

Nagash is mostly deleted from the setting in terms of the lore, as is Arkhan. Nagash has gone up in points and both he and Arkhan are now likely to short circuit when using the very thing they focus on and cost the points they do for.

 

Their custom rules system of Discipline, and also their endless spells rules plus the benefits of many of their other abilities, are now a hindrance or at least nowhere near as useful as they were before.

 

The high volume sales cycle for the entire Bonereapers range is over. (A new range, or new kits, will sell a huge chunk of all the kits it will ever sell in that first year (and indeed the first few weeks) after its initial release.)

 

The Soulblight Gravelords are the new "hot" undead faction. That's GW's focus now, not encouraging interest in a lagging competitor for the hearts and minds of undead players, especially a range with such different rules construction and key kits direct sales only, much less useful for the points, or otherwise tough to get players to buy. (Remember, Bonereapers can't even take these new undead as allies.)

 

If I'm GW, I largely move on from Bonereapers and focus on selling Gravelords now. I'm not spending time figuring out how to fit the square peg of Bonereapers into the round hole of the new AoS core rules.

 

The FAQ is almost certain to be a very rushed patch, with an eye toward a full rework years down the road when it might (might!) make sense to revisit the army, add a few new kits, and resell their rules with fancy new expensive limited edition books, dice sets, and cards. There's just no real incentive to put the work in on them now when they would take such effort to make them remotely viable.

[JackStreicher]

57 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Nagash is mostly deleted from the setting in terms of the lore, as is Arkhan. Nagash has gone up in points and both he and Arkhan are now likely to short circuit when using the very thing they focus on and cost the points they do for.

That‘s my biggest gripe about the new edition. „Look at me I am a god - double one - I guess I am not“

[Kadeton]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

If I'm GW, I largely move on from Bonereapers and focus on selling Gravelords now. I'm not spending time figuring out how to fit the square peg of Bonereapers into the round hole of the new AoS core rules.

The daft bit is that all they would need to do to fix it is not double down on making the Bonereapers special snowflakes. Remove Relentless Discipline entirely, as it's now so close to the standard command rules that the distinction becomes a weakness instead of a strength. Take away battleshock immunity and let them take Death allies while you're at it, and they can just play the game the same way as everyone else.

[stratigo]

As a KO player, annoyance that we are back in the nebulous space of "What does fly high actually do? What can you disengage from with it? Can it be used?" GW keeps using like paragraphs where we need like 2 lines to make things clear.

[Scurvydog]

RAW states that armies are now chosen based on their faction table in the generals handbook stated 25.1 and 27.0, you will not get allegiance abilities if you are using more than 1 faction (excluding allies). 

This effectively nukes all the chaos lists using STD out of orbit. Perhaps we will see Archaon added to the table for all the chaos books, but if not those Tzeentch and Khorne Archaon lists are deleted overnight from matched play.

STD;  The above does not hurt the STD allegiance itself, but hurts anything you might want to use the models for. The new edition also hurts STD quite a bit, as their most viable build right now is based around the plaguetouched battalion, also Varanguard units can only go to 6 and not 9 as seen a lot in KotET lists. Warshrines will be a bit better, several solid commands will also be good with more CP to go around overall, the generic artifacts help them, as those in the book are just awful. A lot of cheap (right now) monsters might be better, but might also just be costed higher into uselessness again.

Seraphon: Odd spot really, all the changes to endless spells will take away one of their main tricks. Reinforcement rules might just ruin Saurus entirely for those few that played them and might also cap out skinks at 30 instead of 40 to make their buffs less efficient. Thinking Thunderlizards will come out best of them all, the big dinos got a lot more presence and objective game going on now.

OBR: Ugh needs a lot of FAQ to be workable. No ability to repeat commands will kill their mobility and severely limit their offensive options as well, if their special RDP does not get some kind of exemption in a FAQ. Catapults will also be worse of, as their 0 rend will be mitigated a lot more with all out defense and mystic shield both providing +1 save, making it much less likely to do any damage at all, forget about hurting 4+/3+ save units at all.

Stormcast: Hard to say, they will most likely get a new tome anyway, so hardly matters to speculate much. At least they can't really get hurt by the new edition, as most things were terrible, their 40 battalions were all bad and the entire army relied mostly on a few gimmicky lists.

Ironjawz: Might also get updated in a new warclans book soon, but in their current state they get hurt pretty bad, as their best trick mighty destroyers is now limited to 1 use, this will severely limit their available tactics. Ardboyz also do not like the new coherency rules at all. More MSU might help their smashing and bashing but this goes both ways. Mawkrushas might also get even more dangerous, however this might not make up for the limitation of only 1 mighty destroyers per turn.

Sons of Behemat: Mostly great here, they are all monsters and get access to rampages, even though you cant use the same multiple times. Their heroes are also big monsters, so things like titanic duel or finest hour will be incredibly dangerous on them, can even combo that with a command, so a gatebreaker could go in early and pop it all sitting at a 2+ save, +1 hit and +1 wound against a monster, that is scary. New generic artifacts are nice, especially the 5+ Ward is good on a 35 wound mega gargant. Commands are very efficient on their units and they do not suffer from coherency rules or reinforcement at all. That objective capping takes place during deployment also helps them bust out of the gate turn 1 if they wish. The army can still get destroyed if GW decides to increase their points and basically make it impossible to make a working army though, there is no wiggle room for them as is...

[Perturbato]

24 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

RAW states that armies are now chosen based on their faction table in the generals handbook stated 25.1 and 27.0, you will not get allegiance abilities if you are using more than 1 faction (excluding allies). 

This effectively nukes all the chaos lists using STD out of orbit. Perhaps we will see Archaon added to the table for all the chaos books, but if not those Tzeentch and Khorne Archaon lists are deleted overnight from matched play.

STD;  The above does not hurt the STD allegiance itself, but hurts anything you might want to use the models for. The new edition also hurts STD quite a bit, as their most viable build right now is based around the plaguetouched battalion, also Varanguard units can only go to 6 and not 9 as seen a lot in KotET lists. Warshrines will be a bit better, several solid commands will also be good with more CP to go around overall, the generic artifacts help them, as those in the book are just awful. A lot of cheap (right now) monsters might be better, but might also just be costed higher into uselessness again.

 

You mean that i won't be able to use blade of khorne allegiance on slave to darkness units even if they are khorne mark of chaos ?

[Scurvydog]

Just now, Perturbato said:

You mean that i won't be able to use blade of khorne allegiance on slave to darkness units even if they are khorne mark of chaos ?

That is what the RAW says at least, might be some FAQ to clear it up later.

From the core rules:

25.1 FACTION
Pitched battle profiles are organised into tables, each of which contains
the Pitched Battle profiles for one faction (see 1.1).

27.0 ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES
If all of the units in your army are from a single faction, then you can use
that faction’s allegiance abilities.

Sidebar:

An army that is made up of
two or more factions (not
including allies) cannot use
allegiance abilities, unless
noted otherwise

 

The kicker is the "unless noted otherwise", but still, if Archaon is only present on the S2D table, that is his faction and only possible source of allegiance abilities. They might do an FAQ or they might include some units on multiple tables, I do not have the GHB2021 to know that unfortunately, but going by this information alone, all the mark of chaos soups are probably gone.

[Painbringer]

10 hours ago, peasant said:

I run nurgle's munificient wanderers any 6 to hit my units causes 1 MW, so units that do something at 6 to hit are inmune to my subfaction trait?

You should be still able to use the ability under the new rules. In this particular case, this will cause simultaneus triggered effects (sections 1.6.2 and 1.6.4 in the core rules). Which means that first your opponent will have to chose one of his effects if he rolls 6s to hit, and then you will have to choose one of your effects that trigger on other player gettng 6s to hit.

Here is the quote from the section 1.6.2: "if the effects of two or more abilities would be applied at the same time in a turn, the player whose turn is taking place applies the effects of their abilities first, one at a time, in the order they desire. Their opponent then does the same."
The section 1.6.4 (triggered effects) only describes what happens in the situation when multiple effects are triggered by the die roll - but still you manage yours and your opponent does the same. I'm pretty sure that your opponent cannot bypass your ability by choosing it not to trigger.

Here's an example:

• Opponent hits you and scores several 6s
• Let's say that two of his abilities trigger on 6s to hit. He now has to choose one of them and apply the effect.
• However, let's also say that you have two abilities that trigger if your opponent rolls 6s to hit. Now you also have to choose one of them and apply the effect.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Painbringer

[Dankboss]

7 hours ago, Nart said:

Fangs now can basically overwatch twice with two different command abilites, giving skinks another shooting phase. 

Do both CAs activate in the charge phase? If so one unit can't receive a command twice.
Or do you mean 2 different units can be shooting?

[Scurvydog]

1 hour ago, Painbringer said:

You should be still able to use the ability under the new rules. In this particular case, this will cause simultaneus triggered effects (sections 1.6.2 and 1.6.4 in the core rules). Which means that first your opponent will have to chose one of his effects if he rolls 6s to hit, and then you will have to choose one of your effects that trigger on other player gettng 6s to hit.

Here is the quote from the section 1.6.2: "if the effects of two or more abilities would be applied at the same time in a turn, the player whose turn is taking place applies the effects of their abilities first, one at a time, in the order they desire. Their opponent then does the same."
The section 1.6.4 (triggered effects) only describes what happens in the situation when multiple effects are triggered by the die roll - but still you manage yours and your opponent does the same. I'm pretty sure that your opponent cannot bypass your ability by choosing it not to trigger.

Here's an example:

• Opponent hits you and scores several 6s
• Let's say that two of his abilities trigger on 6s to hit. He now has to choose one of them and apply the effect.
• However, let's also say that you have two abilities that trigger if your opponent rolls 6s to hit. Now you also have to choose one of them and apply the effect.

So in an extreme scenario unit A has exploding hits AND mw on 6s- Unit B reflects a mw when hit on a 6, but also has a spell that forces rerolls of 6s to hit against them.

Unit A has the turn and rolls 10 dice with 2 6s. They then have to choose if those are explodes or MW. Then Unit B needs to choose if those 6s need to be rerolled, or if they should reflect 1 MW. Right? 

If It is the player of Unit B that has the turn, yet Unit A attacks first, it is then the controller of Unit B that decides first if they wish to trigger rerolls or reflects. Lets say they choose rerolls and Unit A ends up having 1 roll of a 6 after that, they then choose if that 6 is going to be an explode or mw correct?

[Nart]

37 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

Do both CAs activate in the charge phase? If so one unit can't receive a command twice.
Or do you mean 2 different units can be shooting?

 

Yeah, 2x 30 skinks in FoS can cover each other very effectively.

[Eternalis]

As an aelf DoK player, I'm disapointed.

I don't think I gain anything in this new edition. I don't need that much CP, I don't need new prayers (6+ ward isn't my thing :p), I don't need new artefacts or more spells, I don't care about enhancement as my witches are Battlelines...
But I'm losing things. No more 4+ save aelves (thanks GW, all my models were with a Buckler...) as you may only have +1 in save. Which makes the new CA to gain +1 save pointless to me.
The new coherency isn't my thing but okay.

On the other hand, the snake part is left untouched and is even better now... Great work GW, you had to sell these snakes don't you?