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Cities of Sigmar in AoS 3


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16 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

We will have to see if Dawnbringer Crusades have anything in store for the Meme Tank, but if the rumours are true and the Dawnbringer Crusades are really a reboot of the Freeguild portion of Cities, then I could see the Steam Tank getting some attention, as well.

I doubt it means anything, but there was some new art of the Steam Tank in the promotional material for AoS 3:

yh8PlPyMWcrpt4ii.jpg

Also, steam contraptions seem to feature in the Dawnbringer Crusade artwork:

3q03R90EPUln7uJ0.jpg

For me personally, the Steam Tank has always been a very iconic Warhammer unit, and the first unit I associate with the Empire. So I hope it can become viable at some point.

Also interesting: I see Steam Tank, Pistoler/Outrider and Greatswords, but no Guards or Handgunners. We could hope for new sets for those.

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23 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Also interesting: I see Steam Tank, Pistoler/Outrider and Greatswords, but no Guards or Handgunners. We could hope for new sets for those.

Really, better Handgunners and Guard are all I want for Freeguild. Everything else still looks good.

But if I were to shamelessly wishlist, this is what I'd want:

Steam Tanks no longer have a damage table and random movement. Reasoning: They are comparable to the Gunhauler, and that thing does not have a damage table. The random movement really seems to be a holdover from Fantasy. Weaken the warscroll or raise the points if necessary, just make the tank less random. In fact, just clean up the janky warscroll and make it AoS 3 ready.

The regular Steam Tank is no longer "Single" and gets to form units of 2, 3 with Commander General. Expensive at potenetially 600 or so points, but it would make a steam tank squad a fearsome unit to build around.

I'd also love to see a few new steam vehicles. Like a troop transporter, or self-driving artillery to replace the old Helblaster/Helstorm kit. Or add an giant Steam Tank that acts as the Ironclad to the regular Steam Tank's Gunhauler.

Ah... It's fun to dream, but realistically, just making the Steam Tank marginally good would be enough for me.

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On 6/19/2021 at 5:12 AM, Molt said:

I'm thinking of what lists to try first and think that CoS got some pretty nice combos with the new edition, if i didnt oversee anyting from stopping them:

Hallowheart + Arcane Tome:

makes the bearer a wizard and hallowheart gives another cast. Could be nice on for example anointed on foot or phoenix to create a very tanky wizard with 2 casts.

edit: "Flaming Weapon: Casts on a 4+ and improves the damage of one of the casters weapons by 1. " Seems quite good in conjunction with the above to make phoenix more killy.

Actually, with the wording on the frost phoenix "This model can included 1 Anointed armed with a Great Phoenix Halberd. If it does, this model has the Hero keyword.However, if it does, any command traits or artefacts of power only affect attacks made by the Anointed."

Currently it should be possible to use flaming weapon on the phoenix talons, as it is neither command trait nor artefact, which would be insanely good and probably not intended. Still very good to buff up the hellbeard attacks and get an easy proc of the + save for phoenix.

 

2 gyros in grand battery core battalion:

Gives a free Unleash hell, which might be quite nasty on gyro actually, as after the charge probably quite a few foes are in range of the steam gun. Also pretty hillarious imo!

Super tanky phoenix stuff:

Frostheart Phoenix can Heroic Recovery every herophase, which heals on average 1.6 wounds per phase. Normally not very killy, he can use stomp for mortal wounds or roar to disable command points. As healing is generally great value on the phoenix, i think he will be super obnoxious. 

For phoenix guards it might still be worth it to run a big blob of 30 and try to get rally off, which is pretty awesome value on these guys. Might be too expensive though. Also a very good target for the hold the line objective.

 

Did you find any other nice combos yet? :)

I love the thoughts on the phoenix stuff but even better than a rally on PG is the emerald lifeswarm. Moves every hero phase, keep control of it with a wizard and it seems to heal an extra d3 the first turn you cast it (when summoned and when it finishes a move which you move it the turn you summon it) you're getting a lot of points back at 2d3 Phoenix guard a round.

Combined with all out defense it seems like a good time to try making the 20-30 elf block of converted guard I'd considered.

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8 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I love the thoughts on the phoenix stuff but even better than a rally on PG is the emerald lifeswarm. Moves every hero phase, keep control of it with a wizard and it seems to heal an extra d3 the first turn you cast it (when summoned and when it finishes a move which you move it the turn you summon it) you're getting a lot of points back at 2d3 Phoenix guard a round.

Combined with all out defense it seems like a good time to try making the 20-30 elf block of converted guard I'd considered.

It's a tough decision whether or not to go for 30 Phoenix Guard. On the one hand, nearly nothing puts out the damage to take out 20 guard, but absolutely nothing can wipe 30.

But that price tag... 30 Phoenix Guard plus an Anointed on Foot clock in at 635 points. Nearly a third of your list. Add Lifeswarm to that and you are up to 695. And that does not even include a wizard.

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2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

It's a tough decision whether or not to go for 30 Phoenix Guard. On the one hand, nearly nothing puts out the damage to take out 20 guard, but absolutely nothing can wipe 30.

But that price tag... 30 Phoenix Guard plus an Anointed on Foot clock in at 635 points. Nearly a third of your list. Add Lifeswarm to that and you are up to 695. And that does not even include a wizard.

I wasn't really considering the annointed as part of their cost and was just thinking of them being your anvil for the annointed on frostheart with arcane tome to fly around. Not sure what would fill out the rest of the battleline though. 

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56 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I wasn't really considering the annointed as part of their cost and was just thinking of them being your anvil for the annointed on frostheart with arcane tome to fly around. Not sure what would fill out the rest of the battleline though. 

That's understandable, but I would personally probably want that foot Annointed around for battleshock immunity. Although I suppose you could earmark a command point for inspiring presence instead.

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The Anointed on Frostheart with Arcane Tome tech is pretty excellent, especially for Hallowheart as he's a good target to take the damage from Arcane Channeling. Under the old rules that wouldn't be so, but now ward rolls appear to be optional: "up to 1 ward roll can be made for each wound or mortal wound." So you can use Witness to Destiny to have a greater degree of control over how much damage you take from the ability.

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4 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

The Anointed on Frostheart with Arcane Tome tech is pretty excellent, especially for Hallowheart as he's a good target to take the damage from Arcane Channeling. Under the old rules that wouldn't be so, but now ward rolls appear to be optional: "up to 1 ward roll can be made for each wound or mortal wound." So you can use Witness to Destiny to have a greater degree of control over how much damage you take from the ability.

Makes pretty good use of Flaming weapon too.

This is tempting me so much lol. But my current "30 sotw unleashing hell for ungodly numbers of shots" seems fine too.

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5 hours ago, The Red King said:

Makes pretty good use of Flaming weapon too.

This is tempting me so much lol. But my current "30 sotw unleashing hell for ungodly numbers of shots" seems fine too.

Why not both in Hallowheart? :3

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Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar

- City: Hallowheart

Mortal Realm: Ghur

 

Leaders

Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (315)

- General

- Command Trait: Master of Magic

- Artefact: Arcane Tome- Sear Wounds - Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Elemental Cyclone

Lord-Arcanum (160)

- Lore of Whitefire: Sear Wounds

- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Roaming Wildfire

Runelord (100)

- Curse

 

Battleline

10 x Freeguild Guard (85)

- Swords and Shields

10 x Freeguild Guard (85)

- Swords and Shields

30 x Phoenix Guard (525)

 

Units

6 x Praetors (310)

20 x Irondrakes (320)

 

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs

Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

 

Total: 1960 / 2000

Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

Battle Regiment

Triumph: Bloodthirsty

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 111

Still trying to get my mind around everything. I really like the Arcanum/Praetor combo and am excited to try it out. Bit worried about their vulnerability to mortals but the ability to return them should help.

Definitely testing the claim more Elite builds can succeed 😉

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20 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Really, better Handgunners and Guard are all I want for Freeguild. Everything else still looks good.

But if I were to shamelessly wishlist, this is what I'd want:

Steam Tanks no longer have a damage table and random movement. Reasoning: They are comparable to the Gunhauler, and that thing does not have a damage table. The random movement really seems to be a holdover from Fantasy. Weaken the warscroll or raise the points if necessary, just make the tank less random. In fact, just clean up the janky warscroll and make it AoS 3 ready.

The regular Steam Tank is no longer "Single" and gets to form units of 2, 3 with Commander General. Expensive at potenetially 600 or so points, but it would make a steam tank squad a fearsome unit to build around.

I'd also love to see a few new steam vehicles. Like a troop transporter, or self-driving artillery to replace the old Helblaster/Helstorm kit. Or add an giant Steam Tank that acts as the Ironclad to the regular Steam Tank's Gunhauler.

Ah... It's fun to dream, but realistically, just making the Steam Tank marginally good would be enough for me.

They Are Billions final wave music started playing in my head while reading this comment! Embrace the STEAMpunk! *___* :D

But you made some very good points. I think the random movement really is no longer necessary and the damage table could potentionally go away, or just be reduced in effect a bit, cause its not like the STank is super overwhelming right now.

While I love the sound of a Steam Tank squadron unit I think it would be a bit too much. But cool idea anyway. If we are talking about more steam vehicles, rather than tanks and transports I would like to see something more fancy and unique. We are after all in High Fantasy setting so making something super cool is tottally an option.

Edited by Myrdin
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Two units who have gone up quite a bit in my estimation are Galen and Doralia ven Denst. It looks like endless spells will be absolutely everywhere in AoS 3 and the ability to attempt to dispell them several times in the shooting and combat phases seems quite good. The same goes for double damage against wizards.

Small heroes are also really nice to have around. If you take three of them, you can fill another Warlord or Command Entourage battalion to get extra command points and enhancements. I think I will personally go for double warlord a lot in Cities, so a useful small hero to enable this is very welcome.

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18 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Two units who have gone up quite a bit in my estimation are Galen and Doralia ven Denst. It looks like endless spells will be absolutely everywhere in AoS 3 and the ability to attempt to dispell them several times in the shooting and combat phases seems quite good. The same goes for double damage against wizards.

Small heroes are also really nice to have around. If you take three of them, you can fill another Warlord or Command Entourage battalion to get extra command points and enhancements. I think I will personally go for double warlord a lot in Cities, so a useful small hero to enable this is very welcome.

Don't forget Longbeards, they can also dispell endless spells.

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34 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Don't forget Longbeards, they can also dispell endless spells.

I always tbought Longbeards were more solid than most people gave them credit for. But for AoS 3, Ironbreakers would be my dwarves of choice with their 3+ save.

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On 6/21/2021 at 9:34 PM, Eldarain said:

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar

- City: Hallowheart

Still trying to get my mind around everything. I really like the Arcanum/Praetor combo and am excited to try it out. Bit worried about their vulnerability to mortals but the ability to return them should help.

Definitely testing the claim more Elite builds can succeed 😉

This seems interesting but why the Praetors? I'm not familiar enough with them to know what they do let alone what they might add here.  

I'm worried this list is really really immobile. You can only be in one place witht he pheonix guard, the annointed is kinda tied to the other wizards for the casting boost, and 20% of your army can't move and shoot effectively.

Also, since your freeguild guard will just be cheap objective holders or screens, I'd try to upgrade them to handgunners- they can at least contribute while holding a back line objective and will do a little damage when charged before they inevitably die. I think thats worth the 30 points more or whatnot. 

Also with your last 40 points, I'd add some aetherwings. Just being able to push a cheap pawn forward to take an objective on turn 1 without exposing your stronger pieces when they move up is excellent. 

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3 hours ago, Frowny said:

This seems interesting but why the Praetors? I'm not familiar enough with them to know what they do let alone what they might add here.  

I'm worried this list is really really immobile. You can only be in one place witht he pheonix guard, the annointed is kinda tied to the other wizards for the casting boost, and 20% of your army can't move and shoot effectively.

Also, since your freeguild guard will just be cheap objective holders or screens, I'd try to upgrade them to handgunners- they can at least contribute while holding a back line objective and will do a little damage when charged before they inevitably die. I think thats worth the 30 points more or whatnot. 

Also with your last 40 points, I'd add some aetherwings. Just being able to push a cheap pawn forward to take an objective on turn 1 without exposing your stronger pieces when they move up is excellent. 

Quality feedback. Thank you.

It's definitely on the slower side. A symptom of my collection as I was playing a bridge build before. So resiliency seemed the only other route until I add faster units.

Praetors are 3+ save 3 Wound SE that have a 3A 3+/3+/-1/D2 melee profile. They can pick an SE hero to bodyguard for the match. Any wounds allocated to the hero while within 3" can be shifted to them as follows

1-2: hero takes the wound

3-4: Praetors take the wound

5-6: Nobody takes the wound

Arcanum can resurrect one on each player turn and the Lifeswarm can potentially be used to return them as well.

Your point about the Guard is sound and more a symptom of my collection than a preference. Something to consider moving forward for sure.

My thinking is run the Phoenix units together and the SE units together with screened Irondrakes between them.  Between the units chosen/heroic actions/sear wounds/lifeswarm should be able to take a punch and keep going.

Aetherwings would be nice for sure but I've maxed my SE already.

I went with Hallowheart for the excellent lore and to buff the 2 wizards casts not necessarily go for the CA buff. I also considered LC to play further into the healing theme and be able to ambush with the ID.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look 😊

 

 

 

 

Edited by Eldarain
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52 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I always tbought Longbeards were more solid than most people gave them credit for. But for AoS 3, Ironbreakers would be my dwarves of choice with their 3+ save.

It does depend how bad the mw spam gets. High saves does nothing vs mortal wounds.

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7 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

It does depend how bad the mw spam gets. High saves does nothing vs mortal wounds.

Maybe, but for mortals get to the point where a 2+ save battleline is not worth considering, they would really have to reach a level much higher than even the most mortal spamming armies can put out right now.

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2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Maybe, but for mortals get to the point where a 2+ save battleline is not worth considering, they would really have to reach a level much higher than even the most mortal spamming armies can put out right now.

You're not incorrect, but having a wound reroll aura, or bravery aura, or dispell sure is handy.

The shielded variant of Longbeads did lose some value due the lack of stacking (but would also save a lot of command points).

I think both units have value, which is great!

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What they need to do is make the greatsword kit the universal melee kit for freeguild. Include upgrade sprues that have the alternate weapon options similarly to the new sprues for imperial guard. The gs kit is more detailed for being older and lends itself to have upgrade sprues via new arms heads torsos etc.

won’t happen though

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19 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

It does depend how bad the mw spam gets. High saves does nothing vs mortal wounds.

This is why I'm running elves as my defensive line. I'll take Eternal Guard to start, and then if mortal wound spam gets out of control they can be downgraded to Dreadspears without needing to buy and build lots of new minis. The points saved can then go into something else.

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On 6/21/2021 at 8:01 AM, zilberfrid said:

Also interesting: I see Steam Tank, Pistoler/Outrider and Greatswords, but no Guards or Handgunners. We could hope for new sets for those.

Aren't those ranks of handgunners behind the middle row of people pulling the rope?  With their guns on their shoulders?

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What you guys think will be the future for cities?

With the rumours of new Imperium minis. Maybe a dwarf union. And nothing for the elves... will we be getting a new book? What will the plans of GW for cities? 

Theres a lot of kits in our army. Maybe Imperium will go apart with stormcast as FreePeople? 

 Maybe dwarfs will have something similar and could soup with other dwarfs? Gotrek and the God of the forge?

 Will dark elves and scourge, shadowblades unite with Malerion? Will wanderers get into sylvaneth?? DoK is that idea, only 2 new kits and the God queen

 I see very difficult this things but we have every mini from fantasy (apart from the new cursed city stuff and the new hunters), so I dont feel like we will get another book as the one we have. 

 Like LoN some units gone to nighthaunt, ossiarch and soulblight... it feels ok for the lore to dwarfs follow her God, and for dark aelfs going to follow Malerion and the wanderers hide on the forests, so as free people follow sigmar of course .

 Time will tell. Maybe with a White Dwarf rules change or something? 

Edited by Hoseman
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I'm a bit on the fence about all this human crusader and dwarf unity talk to be honest. I'm fully onboard with the cities being huge cultural melting pots where dwarves, elves and humans rub shoulders and fight together. I get that they have to change things to generate £$€, but would rather they added new units and do a proper job of writing a new army book that melds the various units together and doesn't leave them with silly keyword restrictions. 

I've also got concerns about the state of most of the cities in the new rules. Hallowheart and Settlers Gain seem to be the big winners with others like Living City and Misthavn being dependent on mission - not being able to use reserves basically removes their main ability. If the upcoming errata for the new edition fixes any of these problems, I'll be surprised.

Half of the cities are useless at the moment - Misthavn, Phoenicium, Greywater, even the new Excelsis is bad (and I've really tried to like it as it fits the fluff for my homebrew city).

I had to laugh a few days ago when GW claimed that their new method for generating points was great. I'm sorry, but in what world are 80 point flagellants good value, when skinks are 75? No shooting, pathetic save, weak in combat, only battleline if a human is general, slow and their ability is circumstantial - 80 points, lol. 5 points more gets you a unit of Freeguild or Corsairs.

 

Edited by SentinelGuy
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