zilberfrid Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Freeguild: Freeguild Guard are obsolete because they rely on stacking bonusses, Handgunners seem good enough. Crossbows do not rely on buff stacking, so seem quite good. Pistoleers lost points because they are very range sensitive, and I think it's a bit clumsy to keep that narrow band with double rows, though you can put an outrider leader behind them Outriders get better when they can retreat. Demis are useless in more than msu, because they need their beaks and claws. Greatswords still have the awkward spot of wanting to be near Generals, but not keeping up with the Griffin and not wanting to stay back with the other General. General lost some points because they have less buff stacking, but could still be worth it. General on Griffin gets better, because more MSU units makes it more possible to get in 12", but much worse because the charge bonus is useless. Collegiate Battlemage: Single target spells will not be as good Azyr can hit multiple units, which is good Transformation of Lead helps with higher saves Wildform helps prevent redeplys working Battlemage on Griffin will still be bad Hurricanum lost some points because of less buff stacking, but that's okay. Luminark could hit more units when units are smaller, and mw protection is also good. Coven Bleakswords, Dreadspears and Darkshards rely on being above 10 models, which isn't good Blackguard with their 2" and decent attack might see some use with reduction of usability of the three above. Have no opinion about the rest Disposessed Longbeards will love dispelling endless spells, which could be more common, though sterner stuff is useless. Warden King could be useful because the Oathstone isn't targeted. Don't know about Runelord, seems okay Blaze Away is useful if you get charged. Ironbreakers seem unaffected, but mw spam is bad for them. Hammerers might be okay Ironweld Gyrocopters were good at deleting big units, and lose big if those units no longer exist. Brimstone guns probably still useless. Gyrobombers are probably unchanged. Cogsmith is probably relatively unchanged, though artillery became worse. Artillery all need buffstacking to be useful. Phoenix temple Phoenix Guard seem a good pick because of MW spam, and not needing BS tests near heroes is good This makes Anointed reasonable Birds are monsters, which could change things, but probably largely unchanged. Devoted Flagellants relied on buff stacking, in as far as they were ever relevant. New heroes are not Devoted, so they are still orphans. Serpentis Dragon still doesn't seem good Hydras are monsters Drakespawn Chariot: unsure Drakespawn Knights: MW spam and coherency made them worse. Shadowblades seem largely unaffected Privateers Kharibdyss is a monster Fleetmaster and Corsairs seem to have their +1's filled already, so are hurt by lack of buffstacking Unsure about Scourgerunners, seem unchanged. Wanderers Sisters of the Watch seem a bit better Wild Riders are worse Eternal Guard have filled their +1's, so can't really be buffed Rangers might be used if we get a monster meta Sisters of the Thorn seem unchanged. As for Cities: Hammerhal seems to work quite well, even though they had a functional batallion. Living City with increased access to artifacts could use Deepmire Cloak quite well, and seems largely unaffected Greywater buffs artillery, which is useless. Eroding Blast could still be fun. Don't think Phoenicium is saved by this. Anvilgard seems to be about as good, though more access to artifacts Hallowheart seems somewhat similar, though loss of batallion Tempest's Eye: Command traits became worse without buff stacking, batallion lost isn't nice, though I think it can be allright with the right choices. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeblasky Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) So, we got some good things and some bad things. Good is that we get more CPs, and Cities like to have a lot of CPs. Having some decent ways to boost CP generation in addition to this makes us very liberal with CP usage, thus making us stronger. New CAs are very good for us as well - boosting out shooting is always nice, giving Dreadlord on a dragon +1 to hit feels extremely valuable (his hit rolls can be quite swingy), and making 20-30 Sisters of the Watch with no buffs an unchargeable bastion for the price of 1 CP seems quite strong as well. Bad thing is that any CA can be used only once per phase. Unless our Cities CAs get FAQed, here goes my dream of Strike then melt Awaying 2-3 units every battle round. And even then you can be denied a 3 inch charge for your single unit with your opponent Redeploy and then still get shot to bits with your opponent Unleash Hell. Phoenixes with Annointed will be invaluable as overwatch breakers. But another good thing is that Redeploy command is quite good for our screens. Another good thing is that with new Warlord batalion (which I believe we can take multiple times), we can get more enhancements, thus more of those great Cities artifacts. Our monsters (especially hero monsters) got stronger, but so did every other monster and hero in the game. Still, Annointed on Frost Phoenix in Living City potentially healing 1+2D3 wounds every battle round would be quite an unkillable bird. By the way, the intersting thing about modifiers right now is that it's only ROLLS can't be modified by more than +-1. If you opponent has -1 ho hit, +2 to hit is still useful. If you're under attack by -2 rend, +3 to your save is still useful. So buff stacking is still quite useful, just less so than before and more situational. And that's why I love Sisters of the Watch btw - they largely don't care about such things now due to how they work. Edited June 16, 2021 by Zeblasky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Zeblasky said: By the way, the intersting thing about modifiers right now is that it's only ROLLS can't be modified by more than +-1. If you opponent has -1 ho hit, +2 to hit is still useful. If you're under attack by -2 rend, +3 to your save is still useful. So buff stacking is still quite useful, just less so than before and more situational. And that's why I love Sisters of the Watch btw - they largely don't care about such things now due to how they work. Stuff like this makes me question the obvious thought that we probably all had when we saw that hit, wound and save bonuses are capped: Cities stacks bonuses, so without stacking cities is now weaker. I mean, yes, sure. Undeniably some units get weaker, and some warscrolls are outdated (since they give +2 to hit or something). But even looking at units like Freeguild Guard, you can still get them to hit on a 3+, so is it really that much worse? Ironbreakers can now just easily sit on a 2+ save, which they could not before. Irondrakes can now overwatch, and their big buff stack seems to still work the same as before. Phoenix Guard get even tankier somehow. If you can get a unit to +2 to hit, it can lets you overwatch at +1, which is huge for Irondrakes, Handgunners and Sisters. Honestly, I think Cities overall gets better in AoS 3, even if buff stacking has less value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 5 hours ago, zilberfrid said: Ironweld Gyrocopters were good at deleting big units, and lose big if those units no longer exist. Brimstone guns probably still useless. Gyrobombers are probably unchanged. Wanderers Sisters of the Watch seem a bit better Wild Riders are worse Eternal Guard have filled their +1's, so can't really be buffed Rangers might be used if we get a monster meta Sisters of the Thorn seem unchanged. Gyrocopters are much better due to chaffing and the smaller board size especially in an MSU meta. How are WRs worse? they are an overlooked unit that has great punch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowny Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 I just finished building the Pistoliers/Aetherguard windrunners battalion but have only played them once in person d/t Covid. While there may still be some play to pistoliers, my army built around the fallback+shoot + charge is pretty dead. A little annoyed about that. But I do think CoS will actually do pretty well. I think people are sleeping on living cities- they were prevously starved for CP since fire and fade is so good. While true that they can only use it once per turn, with extra CP's they can use it once per turn and still use CP on something else, like +1 to hit after they make their 3inc charge. Also, the 1w/turn heal is useful on monsters, who mostly all got a buff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeblasky Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Frowny said: I just finished building the Pistoliers/Aetherguard windrunners battalion but have only played them once in person d/t Covid. While there may still be some play to pistoliers, my army built around the fallback+shoot + charge is pretty dead. A little annoyed about that. But I do think CoS will actually do pretty well. I think people are sleeping on living cities- they were prevously starved for CP since fire and fade is so good. While true that they can only use it once per turn, with extra CP's they can use it once per turn and still use CP on something else, like +1 to hit after they make their 3inc charge. Also, the 1w/turn heal is useful on monsters, who mostly all got a buff. I am quite sorry for that, mate. I haven't yet a chance to play with my army on the table, but new edition is quite more lucky for me, due to my army being based around Sisters of the Watch and 3 monsters (Dreadlord, Annointed on frost and Treelord) x) Although I can still get killed by new Sister points. Edited June 16, 2021 by Zeblasky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyhedberg Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Will sisters of the watch be able to shoot twice when someone charge? (Warscroll ability and command ability)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeblasky Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 26 minutes ago, Howdyhedberg said: Will sisters of the watch be able to shoot twice when someone charge? (Warscroll ability and command ability)? Seems so, yes, but you better shoot with warscroll overwatch first, before using Unleash Hell, as you it could be argued that wording of Unleash Hell gives your unit -1 to hit for the rest of the charge phase. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinelGuy Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Scourgerunner Chariots got a slight nerf. They only get a champion if taken in 3s and that's only possible if you take the Fleetmaster general. Not huge, but still a bit silly. If the Fleetmaster stays our cheapest hero then I could maybe see myself taking one to bulk out my hero slots for battalions. With the wider access to magic items he can have some interesting stuff. Eternal Guard still benefit from the buffs as they only get their built in ones if they don't move, in which case they're hitting on 2s anyway. I don't think being restricted to +1 to save is that big a deal when you read up on how it actually works. Stacking will still be useful and it was already pointless against mortal wounds anyway. Drakespawn Chariots might do a bit more damage now that there will be more 10 man squads on the field. It's a chaff unit which will hopefully stay cheap. Drakespawn Knights are iffy and will depend on the points changes. Pistoliers are getting whacked by range difficulties and the chickens aren't up to much in larger formations now, so maybe it is their time to be slightly more shiny than previous editions. Tempests Eye with the improved save on turn 1 and the move and run bonus could work nicely with some of the generic command abilities. A wall of 10 (2 ranks of 5) moving sideways still covers a large area. Play Excelsis and run them in the new battalion that messes with monsters, and you have some reasonably cheap cavalry, faster than infantry, well armoured blockers to tie down monsters for a little while. Freeguild combat infantry are pretty much useless though. Tempests Eye - there's nothing much else which gives +1 to wound in CoS, so I'm not sure why some think the new rules suddenly make TE bad. They'll still be one of the best cities, as Hawk Eyed and all 3 magic artefacts are excellent. Hallowheart are also going to be strong with their anti magic and Veteran of the Blazing Crusade trait. Battleshock immunity is gold now. I'm mostly interested in MSU vs reinforced Irondrakes. Big squads are harder to hide and harder to position. MSU squads means only one benefits from the Runelord and the firing when charged command. I have to admit I'm still considering turning my 30 man blob into 3 units of 10. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, SentinelGuy said: Freeguild combat infantry are pretty much useless though. I think Greatswords are not significantly worse than before, mechanically. They can even self-buff with All-Out attack now and don't need a hero to babysit them. 20 of them will still kill a lot of things dead when they get into them. I don't know if a meta with more shooting will be kind to them, though. Edited June 16, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyhedberg Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said: I think Greatswords are not significantly worse than before mechanically. They can even self-buff with All-Out attack now and don't need a hero to babysit them. 20 of them will still kill a lot of things dead when they get into them. I don't know if a meta with more shooting will be kind to them, though. I love greatswords. I agree that they won't really survive ranged armies! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Popisdead said: Gyrocopters are much better due to chaffing and the smaller board size especially in an MSU meta. How are WRs worse? they are an overlooked unit that has great punch. Wild riders have a unit strength of 5, so they effectively lost a model. Gyros are good at deleting entire units in groups of three, almost regardless of unit size. The value of that goes down when units are smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, zilberfrid said: Wild riders have a unit strength of 5, so they effectively lost a model. Gyros are good at deleting entire units in groups of three, almost regardless of unit size. The value of that goes down when units are smaller. Gyros value goes up as smaller units as they add more utility to the movement game, they have a high mobility and a decent base size regarding movement blocking. Your comment about WRs is nonsensical. Unit strength is an archetype from a game that died six years ago. If I deploy 5 models they still have the same number of attacks in this edition and last edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeblasky Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) Wild Riders are, well, okay. But I'm quite sad to see that there are much more powerful simular units. Blood Knights point wise deal around the same damage on charge while having 3+ save, much better mobility (they get a charge every turn), and conditional D3 healing and D3 mortals. And some Soulblight players still considered them mediocre. Edited June 16, 2021 by Zeblasky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) Is it possible to see some remove of the keywords? I hate the impossibility of making a similar old sylvan aelfs army as every unit only synergies with darkling, shadowblades, serpentis, etc.. Edited June 16, 2021 by Hoseman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 I use Greatswords as my back-up hammer and third threat, in case my demigryphs are compromised. They only got better in 3.0. They do need another workhorse on the field to draw heat away from them though. I Always take a unit of 30 to sure up my midfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hoseman said: Is it possible to see some remove of the keywords? I hate the impossibility of making a similar old sylvan aelfs army as every unit only synergies with darkling, shadowblades, serpentis, etc.. 0% I’m afraid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dankboss said: 0% I’m afraid. I think the same but is not fair... I mean, humans have 2 keywords? Dwarfs the same and aelfs 6!!? Edited June 16, 2021 by Hoseman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, Hoseman said: I think the same but is not fair... I mean, humans have 2 keywords? Dwarfs the same and aelfs 6!!? Humans have four keywords in Cities (Collegiate, Devoted, Freeguild, Ironweld), Dwarves have two (Ironweld, Disposessed). Elves have lots, which reflects the non-cities amount of elf factions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Popisdead said: Gyros value goes up as smaller units as they add more utility to the movement game, they have a high mobility and a decent base size regarding movement blocking. Your comment about WRs is nonsensical. Unit strength is an archetype from a game that died six years ago. If I deploy 5 models they still have the same number of attacks in this edition and last edition. Movement blocking or removing a 40 model unit in a single shooting turn, what would you prefer? I have never played WHFB, I meant MSU, and coherency rules are bad for melee units in general. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doko Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 After see vince vinturella review,seems runelord got hit HARD by the nerf. Now they get 1 mw if faill with 1 Now they only can chant one prayer even if know more(i think we never could chant more than 1 but hard nerfs for fyreslayers) And the big nerf,now the sane prayer cant be done more than one time,so no more runelord stacking. I hope now that we got every 80 points priests downsides we get also a buff to 80 points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinelGuy Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 It's happening to all priests so it's a game wide weakening of units. That could balance it out. Looking at the Lumineth cavalry, I'm surprised at how much better they are than Wild Riders or Drakespawn Knights for the same points. GW need to fix CoS cavalry badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 54 minutes ago, SentinelGuy said: It's happening to all priests so it's a game wide weakening of units. That could balance it out. Looking at the Lumineth cavalry, I'm surprised at how much better they are than Wild Riders or Drakespawn Knights for the same points. GW need to fix CoS cavalry badly. I am quite unsurprised other cav are better. Especially High Elves. I really appreciate the writer of CoS, but writing cav just wasn't his strong suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expendable Grunt Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 There has been some debate locally as to whether or not the sword and shield option for Freeguild Guard 'uses up' the +1 save modifier a unit is allowed, as the warscroll reads: "Add 1 to save rolls for attacks that target a unit armed with Freeguild Swords and Shields", making all out defence/cover only useful against rend. Has there been any official word on whether or not modifiers applied in a unit's loadout count towards the +1 limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmGandix3 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I think gyrocopters might actually be extremely good in certain matchups. With everything getting more expensive and reinforcement points your opponent is more limited in big blob powerhouses like sentinels with teclis. If the leaks are true 10 sentinels are 200 points and teclis will go through the roof as other goods do. So lrl will only use one 20 blob of sentinels for buffs and we can delete them with gyros. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.