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Cities of Sigmar in AoS 3


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The battle tactic to get a banner within 1" of 2 different objectives outside of your territory is actually really good; it's a simple condition, similar to one of the existing ones, and gives you options in case you're struggling to score. Not sure if you need to hold the objectives or just get the banners there.

The Griffon's trait is amazing and straight denies enemy Slay the Warlord, Bring it Down and the Monster point on a 2+. Kinda feel like this update was for Freeguild and Hammerhal, as they like their banners and their Griffons.

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Seems pretty bad,the dragon is 1 extra mortal wound each 6 models( in actual meta of only behemot....)

The gryffon is only around 1,8 extra wounds(sure the deny extra wounds is nice and deny points to the rival) that gonna be usefull if he dies at turn5 to deny enemy points but pretty useless in other turns.

The other things are worse than generics,so no use.

In general a very little boost to the worst behemots of aos,i had hope for a easy fix of shields giving save of 3 and not + 1 that would had been so much better than this.

For competitive people this wf update can be skipped

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22 minutes ago, Doko said:

Seems pretty bad,the dragon is 1 extra mortal wound each 6 models( in actual meta of only behemot....)

The gryffon is only around 1,8 extra wounds(sure the deny extra wounds is nice and deny points to the rival) that gonna be usefull if he dies at turn5 to deny enemy points but pretty useless in other turns.

The other things are worse than generics,so no use.

In general a very little boost to the worst behemots of aos,i had hope for a easy fix of shields giving save of 3 and not + 1 that would had been so much better than this.

For competitive people this wf update can be skipped

It's always useful to have access to one more easy battle tactic, so that's far from useless.

And I think you are underestimating the gryphon mount trait. You get to teleport it in addition to healing d3 and negating further damage. This will allow you to get it into a safe position most of the time, and you can start healing it up with at least 1 if not 2 heroic recoveries plus any other extra healing (heal prayer, hallowheart or living city heal spells, twinstone heal etc. So you're probably looking at somewhere between 2d3 heal and 4d3+1+d6 heal.

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On 11/13/2021 at 11:54 PM, swarmofseals said:

I think that Hallowheart is still the best way to field a list like this. You get a massive casting bonus, every wizard as a double caster, and a couple of very good lore spells.

The main problem with a build like this is range. The vast majority of spells have 18" range or less which means that you won't be able to start dealing damage in earnest until turn 2. It'd work fine casually, but competitively not so much. Too many lists in the meta are either extremely good at dealing damage from range >18" (eg: Lumineth, any shooting bridge list, SCE Thunderbolt Volley or Judicator spam lists, Big Yellerz, Seraphon, DoK) or are very strong against chip damage (Sons of Behemat, Soulblight, Ironjawz, Horror Spam, Legion of the First Prince, Archaon, Slaanesh etc.).

It's a powerful concept, but it's really soft to almost everything that is popular at the top of the metagame now.

I completely forgot that Hallowheart got those double cast wizards. That alone probably makes caster-heavy lists better in Hallowheart. Although I still think the Settler's Gain bonuses are decent: You get a bunch of free artefacts and a +1 to cast you don't need to jump through any hoops to get. But then again, you will probably use two of those artefacts to get extra casts, which really does not make them a selling point compared to Hallowheart.

What I am really interested in, though, is whether spamming a bunch of non-magic mortal wounds sources would be good. Like the unmanned Hurricanum and Luminark. I guess for Hurricanums you'd want a way to extend their range, but that 3d3 mortal wounds shot is pretty nice on the face of it.

---

On topic of the White Dwarf update:

Not really anything major, but major changes were out of scope of what these updates provide anyway. There was never a chance that we would get warscroll fixes to units that previously relied don stacking to-hit bonusses or something like that.

The mount traits are both pretty OK. The Griffin trait actually seems good! Teleporting out of combat to safety instead of dying is really useful. Are we entering the Battlemage on Griffin meta? ;) Doubling the effectiveness of the Black Dragon's breath attack is also nice. I don't know if it would make me bring one, but it's a nice bonus.

Getting a better Predator's Domain as an army-specific grand strategy will be nice when Predator's Domain rotates out of matched play. It's fairly good GS for armies that don't have large amounts of either Wizards or Battleline. Getting another easy battle tactic is another expected small buff.

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1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well it is kinda sad to see that gw basically stopped at 2 mountraits, few more options would have been kinda great (for example one for a phoenix) 

But the rest of the rules are fine to I guess what most of us expected.

Yeah, obviously what the people really want are Steam Tank big names. Here's a selection for you:

 

Ol' Reliable: Reroll More Presure! rolls.

Sigmar's Hammer: 1d6 mortals on the charge instead of 1d3

Lord Ordinator Ven Zeppel: Garrison up to 10 FREEGUILD models

 

We could have them for Hurricanums and Luminarks, too. We already had the Beacon of Intellect (reroll Luminark beam rolls) in Broken Realms.

 

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3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Yeah, obviously what the people really want are Steam Tank big names. Here's a selection for you:

 

Ol' Reliable: Reroll More Presure! rolls.

Sigmar's Hammer: 1d6 mortals on the charge instead of 1d3

Lord Ordinator Ven Zeppel: Garrison up to 10 FREEGUILD models

 

We could have them for Hurricanums and Luminarks, too. We already had the Beacon of Intellect (reroll Luminark beam rolls) in Broken Realms.

 

You have my attention.
 

If a tank could Garrison I'd put some greatswords in like a flash

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6 hours ago, Dankboss said:

@Doko Please don't be petty. If you want to disagree, explain it. The general consensus strongly disagrees with you on the Griffon and Banners Sky High.

General consensus are 3 or 4 persons of all citys playerbase???

I can explain as these traits are bad? Sure.

Black dragon doing 1 extra mortal each 6 models is bad because its a ad design,it does more mortals when unit is bigger but usually units with high number of models have low save so make mortal wounds are wasted,so sure this moujt trait upgrade a skill that is almost useless of a model that never have been used in any podium tournament list(melle dragon) and had one that got one win(sorceress) but you dont want her in melle due to save 5

Gryffon in aos3 is useless because he does 10 damage for 300 points(as i said many times) but now he lost his battallion that was huge and a save of 4+1 when every other competitive monster have natural 3 makes him bad.

And now this trait what gives us? In turn1\4 is useless because enemy only gonna kill him in next turn,and yes it is usefull for deny points in turn5.

But it is a bad behemot with a mediocre or situational mount trait,so as entire aos3.0 competitive scene have been and gonna continue being useless

They could have gave us something as reroll save of 1, reduce rend1,get extra attacks,(as other better behemots have as mount traits)even for black dragon a extra 3" to his breath wold have been so much better than this

 

Also the tactics as the general consensus(as you said) said are useless\situational because are worse than generics.

So as i said worse tactics than generics and bad\situational mont traits for allready bad behemots.

So nothing here gonna be used in competitive and so as i said this wd can be skipped for tournaments,for casual play you can be happy because you got mount traits free for black dragon or gryfon 

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4 minutes ago, Doko said:

General consensus are 3 or 4 persons of all citys playerbase???

I can explain as these traits are bad? Sure.

Black dragon doing 1 extra mortal each 6 models is bad because its a ad design,it does more mortals when unit is bigger but usually units with high number of models have low save so make mortal wounds are wasted,so sure this moujt trait upgrade a skill that is almost useless of a model that never have been used in any podium tournament list(melle dragon) and had one that got one win(sorceress) but you dont want her in melle due to save 5

Gryffon in aos3 is useless because he does 10 damage for 300 points(as i said many times) but now he lost his battallion that was huge and a save of 4+1 when every other competitive monster have natural 3 makes him bad.

And now this trait what gives us? In turn1\4 is useless because enemy only gonna kill him in next turn,and yes it is usefull for deny points in turn5.

But it is a bad behemot with a mediocre or situational mount trait,so as entire aos3.0 competitive scene have been and gonna continue being useless

They could have gave us something as reroll save of 1, reduce rend1,get extra attacks,(as other better behemots have as mount traits)even for black dragon a extra 3" to his breath wold have been so much better than this

 

Also the tactics as the general consensus(as you said) said are useless\situational because are worse than generics.

So as i said worse tactics than generics and bad\situational mont traits for allready bad behemots.

So nothing here gonna be used in competitive and so as i said this wd can be skipped for tournaments,for casual play you can be happy because you got mount traits free for black dragon or gryfon 

You've just repeated yourself without engaging what other people have presented. There is more to AoS discourse than TGA I'm afraid.

In the past you've been, in my opinion, unreasonable in your arguments and have never conceded a point when presented with reasonable proof to the contrary, so I'm not interested in trying to convince you otherwise.

What I will say is you misunderstand the applications of the Griffon's mount trait. It is not as simple as you make it out to be.

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1 hour ago, Dankboss said:

I'm not interested in trying to convince you otherwise

Lol you was who ask me for my opinion,i only wrote a short post saying as all this wasnt competitive and i didnt wanted write my tougth because i know this forum dont like negative opinion even if it is true.

In short lets see in one month how many top 5 tournaments have citys list that have something of this wd.........

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I'm quite happy with the new rules. There not spactacular I agree but they do not replace any other rules either. Which is why I like them. I don't need to remove anything from my dragon or griffin to use the mount traits and although the new battle tactics again arnt a meta shifter, there free to use and they add another tool to the tool box. If i use them great, if i dont great..

The griffin trait i like. a rebirth plus a teleport might be worthless in game, then again it might be the equivalent of a free griffin. It'll all depend on the game being played. But again, I'm not giving up anything for it.

It also makes me a little more comfortable running the wizard griffin for above reasons. We all know he's going to die, but if he can do a lazaras maybe he gets to die twice.

Others can decide how competitive the rules are, I don't really know. But I like them. There freebies.

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5 hours ago, Doko said:

Lol you was who ask me for my opinion,i only wrote a short post saying as all this wasnt competitive and i didnt wanted write my tougth because i know this forum dont like negative opinion even if it is true.

In short lets see in one month how many top 5 tournaments have citys list that have something of this wd.........

You explained your opinion, twice. You never engaged with the points made by other people to explain why they’re wrong, or if you did you missed the point (and the retroactive emoji on an older post was petty retaliation).

You might not have noticed, but banners held high doesn’t actually require you to control those objectives. I don’t think I need to explain how that’s good.

Someone will score that at a tournament easily; I know my list can.

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3 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Score an objective that's not in your territory with a flaggelants unit if I remember correctly.

Thanks, it's that specific then. I thought it might be a more general set of criteria that when examined only Flagelants met.

I've never actually played any Flagelants, they might be useful as exploding quicksand but not sure what else...

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33 minutes ago, EntMan said:

Thanks, it's that specific then. I thought it might be a more general set of criteria that when examined only Flagelants met.

I've never actually played any Flagelants, they might be useful as exploding quicksand but not sure what else...

I'll be honest, I have not thought about Flagellants since the Cities of Sigmar book first dropped.

But looking at them again now, they are not awful. They don't deal any damage and die quickly, but they are drit cheap and can be made battleline in a lot of ways. In the current meta, rend '-' is frequently as good as rend -1, since it's very easy to negate one level of rend if you want to, so in theory a unit that can get 4 attacks, 4/3/-/1 compares somewhat favourably to a unit with the standard 2 attacks, 3/3/-1/1 profile in some situations. Although I don't think you can consistently get that kind of profile for the Flagellants.

Maybe a unit of 20 for 160 points with no support just for the battle tactic might be OK? Or even 10 for 80. You could just have those guys walk up a less defended flank, secure in the knowledge that they are probably too trash for your opponent to consider diverting ressources away from the main fight to deal with them.

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6 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I'll be honest, I have not thought about Flagellants since the Cities of Sigmar book first dropped.

But looking at them again now, they are not awful. They don't deal any damage and die quickly, but they are drit cheap and can be made battleline in a lot of ways. In the current meta, rend '-' is frequently as good as rend -1, since it's very easy to negate one level of rend if you want to, so in theory a unit that can get 4 attacks, 4/3/-/1 compares somewhat favourably to a unit with the standard 2 attacks, 3/3/-1/1 profile in some situations. Although I don't think you can consistently get that kind of profile for the Flagellants.

Maybe a unit of 20 for 160 points with no support just for the battle tactic might be OK? Or even 10 for 80. You could just have those guys walk up a less defended flank, secure in the knowledge that they are probably too trash for your opponent to consider diverting ressources away from the main fight to deal with them.

They'd sort of be better with worse bravery as they dish out mortal wounds as they run away. 

They seem best when they are being killed or fleeing, so 20 would be better than 10 as you'd want some left to make use of the being slain and fleeing buffs.

(Not sure the thought of painting up 20 of them fills me with joy though, pretty fiddley looking)

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3 minutes ago, EntMan said:

Not sure the thought of painting up 20 of them fills me with joy though, pretty fiddley looking

It's honestly probably where I come down, too. I don't like the models enough to paint a significant number of them up.

Maybe the sweet spot really is 10 models. You are not really making use of their abilities at that point, but you could treat it of a gamble of 80 points on a potential victory point. If it doesn't work out, whatever, they barely cost anything.

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