Cities of Sigmar in AoS 3

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

As per the cover, rules update for CoS in the next White Dwarf.

Nice! I'm happy about this. Even though it probably puts the next Cities battletome on the backburner for a bit. It's just nice not to have to live in the space of having to deal with interim rules, with a battletome teased but you don't exactly know when it will come.

What do you think will be in this update? Grand strategies and battle tactics seem like a given, but what other rules might get touched? Maybe there will be something that makes the realms of origin of the different cities relevant again. Given that these updates are usually only about three pages long, I don't think we should expect sweeping changes.

Maybe rules for Dawnbringer Crusades as a new subfaction? That would be pretty neat.

[Pariah7echo]

9 hours ago, Jaskier said:

Going off the 1/4 discussion above, is there anything saying Har Kuron can't ally with Daughters of Khaine to essentially game the 1/4 rules, i.e if I have 4 units, can I have 2 Cities units, 1 DoK coalition unit and 1 DoK ally unit? 

They updated the Coalition rule in the FAQ and Har Kuron cannot ally DoK. 

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, Pariah7echo said:

They updated the Coalition rule in the FAQ and Har Kuron cannot ally DoK. 

Well that is just sad for any bow snake/ morathi har kuron list.

[Pariah7echo]

12 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well that is just sad for any bow snake/ morathi har kuron list.

They can still take them as coalition allies so its not the end of the world. They just cant use coaltion + ally to get around the 1 in 4 rule. That does make me wonder though does Morathi count as two units or one for coalitions?

[Skreech Verminking]

28 minutes ago, Pariah7echo said:

They can still take them as coalition allies so its not the end of the world. They just cant use coaltion + ally to get around the 1 in 4 rule. That does make me wonder though does Morathi count as two units or one for coalitions?

I’m guessing that they count as separate units considering that they have a points cost each.

[EntMan]

11 hours ago, Jaskier said:

Going off the 1/4 discussion above, is there anything saying Har Kuron can't ally with Daughters of Khaine to essentially game the 1/4 rules, i.e if I have 4 units, can I have 2 Cities units, 1 DoK coalition unit and 1 DoK ally unit? 

Not a direct answer but Living Cities specifically can't have Sylvaneth allies like other cities can, they can only have Sylvaneth coalition. So my guess would be something similar would be the case here.

Edit: sorry, posted in haste, I should have read the rest of the new replies first!

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by EntMan

[Androidjones]

3 hours ago, Pariah7echo said:

They can still take them as coalition allies so its not the end of the world. They just cant use coaltion + ally to get around the 1 in 4 rule. That does make me wonder though does Morathi count as two units or one for coalitions?

Two. 

[EntMan]

13 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

What do you think will be in this update?

If I'm allowed to think big (and unrealistic) then a dice roll for Flagellants who are slain fighting a chaos unit to see if their dying prayer is answered and if it is then they come straight back as a Stormcast Eternal.

[Jaskier]

Thanks all, I was making a Har Kuron list with Morathi + Blood Stalkers (shocking, I know 🤭 a list no-one's ever tried before!) and seeing if it was still legal to get around the 1 in 4 that way as what little I could find on Har Kuron were lists circumventing that loophole. 

Does mean the GT list I had planned out won't be legal, was gonna run the above with a big Spellportal-Vitriolic Spray Darkshard bomb. It's hard to satisfy 1 in 4 requirements when those 3 DoK units take up 1000 points 😄 

[KK in HK]

I am curious about if anyone has success on har kuron. It seems that the only dok unit worth to take is morathi. DOK units rely heavily on synergy so I don’t see how har kuron work except the spray combo which can be easily dodged by a smart opponent.

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, KK in HK said:

I am curious about if anyone has success on har kuron. It seems that the only dok unit worth to take is morathi. DOK units rely heavily on synergy so I don’t see how har kuron work except the spray combo which can be easily dodged by a smart opponent.

Hat Kuron without Morathi has a survivability issue. The whole army dies way too easily. The damage isn’t great either

[Rahatlin]

Hey everyone.

So with new update on how armor save can be modified to max +1 (General's Handbook pg. 71 "Save Roll") Eternal Guards seems off with their natural +1 bonus if they didnt move which kidna sucks. You cant eighter all out defence them anymore or whats even worse - their synergy with Sisters of the Thorn is kidna ruined now

Am i missing something here or this is indeed the case? Coz i am a bit of a downer now, just finished painting 20 EG's ....

[KydbrookP]

33 minutes ago, Rahatlin said:

Hey everyone.

So with new update on how armor save can be modified to max +1 (General's Handbook pg. 71 "Save Roll") Eternal Guards seems off with their natural +1 bonus if they didnt move which kidna sucks. You cant eighter all out defence them anymore or whats even worse - their synergy with Sisters of the Thorn is kidna ruined now

Am i missing something here or this is indeed the case? Coz i am a bit of a downer now, just finished painting 20 EG's ....

I think it’s max +1 save after rend, so against anything with rend -1 you can still AOD

[Rahatlin]

29 minutes ago, KydbrookP said:

I think it’s max +1 save after rend, so against anything with rend -1 you can still AOD

I actually was scanning through FAQ and theres a Q&A just about this case. And you are right, so after all rend is deducted you can have max of +1 modifier to AS basicly,  which is good since most scarry things are +1/2 rend anyways.

Can still run them into objective, pop SoTT spell on them and sit on 2+ Armor Save for the rest of the game without any extra buff, and if anything scarry comes their way i can pop additional +1 from "All out defence" if i need to negate any extra rend.

relief  

 

[zilberfrid]

9 hours ago, Rahatlin said:

I actually was scanning through FAQ and theres a Q&A just about this case. And you are right, so after all rend is deducted you can have max of +1 modifier to AS basicly,  which is good since most scarry things are +1/2 rend anyways.

Can still run them into objective, pop SoTT spell on them and sit on 2+ Armor Save for the rest of the game without any extra buff, and if anything scarry comes their way i can pop additional +1 from "All out defence" if i need to negate any extra rend.

relief  

I'd argue scary things do mortal wounds, so the only relevant elite infantry are Phoenix Guards.

[Yziel]

Does the Living Cities ability Hunters of the Hidden Path count as a move for Irondrakes' Blaze Away?

[KydbrookP]

10 minutes ago, Yziel said:

Does the Living Cities ability Hunters of the Hidden Path count as a move for Irondrakes' Blaze Away?

I think no, according the FAQ:

Quote

 

Q: Some abilities allow a unit to be set up ‘instead of making a normal move’. Does a unit set up with such an ability count as having moved?

A: No, unless the ability specifically states otherwise.

 

 

[Rahatlin]

5 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I'd argue scary things do mortal wounds, so the only relevant elite infantry are Phoenix Guards.

Oh for sure. But PG are quite more expensive and does not fill battleline unless you have appropriate general.

I just dont have good fit for them in the list im trying out now. Also in my local club theres not that much MW heavy guys.

EG Are better towards rend and PG towards MW but for just 15points more you can bring 10 more EG's which kidna allevate MW resistance i guess 

 

[Popisdead]

On 11/8/2021 at 12:40 AM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

What do you think will be in this update?

CoS Battalions.  

Was there more in the other WD supplements? I didn't look too much into them, just noticed maybe STD got a horsie battalion?  I don't recall.

[Horizons]

On 11/8/2021 at 9:11 PM, KK in HK said:

I am curious about if anyone has success on har kuron. It seems that the only dok unit worth to take is morathi. DOK units rely heavily on synergy so I don’t see how har kuron work except the spray combo which can be easily dodged by a smart opponent.

New DoK tome and new edition weren't too kind to Har Kuron.

Morathi is still amazing but she's two DoK units so it becomes difficult to fit more and because Har Kuron spell lore doesn't specify Unique Wizards, you can't take Vitriolic Spray on Morathi.

I think the best thing to take is probably Morathi still.

A Priest with curse, Portal+Spray heavily favours High# of attacks hordes. I personally like Darkshards but Corsairs are fine. Neither are really competitive but can be fun.

And Snakes are cool. Play Har Kuron for flavour not competition.

 

[JackStreicher]

14 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I'd argue scary things do mortal wounds, so the only relevant elite infantry are Phoenix Guards.

Sad but true. ^^

[Jaskier]

Yeah, Har Kuron is more a flavour option than a competitive one; it's mostly a nice way to get the ol' Druchii band back together. It is a royal pain to fit the Morathi-Stalker combo in, let me tell you. 

Speaking of Living City though, Fulminators are just stupid good in it aren't they? Now that you can't use the same command more than once per phase, they seem to be the perfect choice for the shoot and scoot shenanigans, especially as they are Elite so can operate solo in comfort (though I do think that debate about the shoot-scoot command requiring a nearby hero is unclear enough to warrant having a hero in range for it.) They just wreck face in combat, even if the only buff you slap on them is a +1 to-hit. 

Side note, am I wrong in thinking Sisters of the Watch fit better than Irondrakes for ambushing given the Runelord buff happens in the hero phase?

Edited November 11, 2021 by Jaskier

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

So I have recently been looking at the Helblaster Volley Gun and Helstorm Rocket Battery (Ironweld LYFE 😎) and man, they have to be some of the most awful units in all of Cities.

The Helblaster is effectively on a 3/3/-1/1 attack profile. If you choose to fire all three racks, you get 3d6 attacks, so an average of 10. But of course, that opens you up to a chance of misfiring and blowing yourself up. You know what else gets 10 attacks at 3/3/-1/1? A unit of handgunners. And they can actually screen and capture. And they are easier to buff. And they don't explode. And they are 20 points cheaper.

The Helstorm, on the other hand, just deals no damage. If you can deal d3 mortals per round, you actually out-perform it against most targets. Like, the Luminark laser is more damage efficient than the Helstorm if you can hit two units with it consistently. And that thing also gives you a 6+ ward and +1 to unbind.

Artillery is really kinda crappy in AoS at the moment, I find. Not only  does it not contribute to objective play at all, since it usually stays in the back of your deployment zone and offers no bodies for capturing, it also does not buff effiiciently since every artillery piece is it's own unit and you can't just use a All-Out Attack or something like that to buff all your artillery pieces at once. It's too bad, because the Helstorm and Helblaster still look pretty cool. I'd love to have a 2-3 of them plus a Cogsmith for the occasional lower-powered game. But currently you would just be making a bad choice by bringing them.

[EntMan]

25 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

So I have recently been looking at the Helblaster Volley Gun and Helstorm Rocket Battery (Ironweld LYFE 😎) and man, they have to be some of the most awful units in all of Cities.

The Helblaster is effectively on a 3/3/-1/1 attack profile. If you choose to fire all three racks, you get 3d6 attacks, so an average of 10. But of course, that opens you up to a chance of misfiring and blowing yourself up. You know what else gets 10 attacks at 3/3/-1/1? A unit of handgunners. And they can actually screen and capture. And they are easier to buff. And they don't explode. And they are 20 points cheaper.

The Helstorm, on the other hand, just deals no damage. If you can deal d3 mortals per round, you actually out-perform it against most targets. Like, the Luminark laser is more damage efficient than the Helstorm if you can hit two units with it consistently. And that thing also gives you a 6+ ward and +1 to unbind.

Artillery is really kinda crappy in AoS at the moment, I find. Not only  does it not contribute to objective play at all, since it usually stays in the back of your deployment zone and offers no bodies for capturing, it also does not buff effiiciently since every artillery piece is it's own unit and you can't just use a All-Out Attack or something like that to buff all your artillery pieces at once. It's too bad, because the Helstorm and Helblaster still look pretty cool. I'd love to have a 2-3 of them plus a Cogsmith for the occasional lower-powered game. But currently you would just be making a bad choice by bringing them.

They look supercool though, which is why I have them! 😂

Cogsmiths within 3 inches allow rerolls on the attacks number rolls, which is good as otherwise you'd have a 50% chance of a misfire with 3decks. You'll never fire off 18 with your 3d6 though because they'll always be a double there.

It's a shame but in the Mortal Realms it seems magic is so powerful that technology can't compete.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, EntMan said:

They look supercool though, which is why I have them! 😂

Cogsmiths within 3 inches allow rerolls on the attacks number rolls, which is good as otherwise you'd have a 50% chance of a misfire with 3decks. You'll never fire off 18 with your 3d6 though because they'll always be a double there.

It's a shame but in the Mortal Realms it seems magic is so powerful that technology can't compete.

Don't get me wrong, I might still pick up a kit or two. I like how they look and they have a few fun bits. Will I end up building a self-driving rocket artillery steam tank at some point? I can't really say, but yes.

I actually liked the Helblasters in a gimmick list at some point. Specifically, in the Graywater battalion that lets them shoot twice turn 1. Their damage is not exactly bad, especially with rerolls, but now that you can't buff their to-hit above 3+ anymore they lose a lot of damage output.

The Cogsmith looks like a nice pickup for support hero at 70 points, but in reality it's just another tax. You need him to make the Ironweld artillery units even worth it, so a single Helstorm or Helblaster ends up being super inefficient at around 200 points. I don't even know if they are worth it if you spam them. And it's another point of failure for the whole set up if your opponent ends up sniping your Cogsmith.