Question regarding Khinerais retreat and Fyreslayers fight after slain

[oscswa]

Hello,

Me (DoK) and my friend (Fyreslayers) played a game this weekend where my Khinerai Lifetakers where in combat with his vulkite berzerkers. My Khinerais hit first and was able to kill some of his berzerkers. He had activated this unit so that when they get slained they get to attack before they are removed. My Khinerais has an ability on 4+ to immediatly after all attacks has been resolved retreat 6". What happends first? Can I retreat and effectivly nullify his ability to attack after beeing slain or does he fight back first? My take on it was that my ability kicks in immediatly after all attacks has been resolved which is when wounds get allocated and if it happends on my turn I get to do my thing first but when its his turn he gets to do his thing first. That might be bollocks though? Anyone know so we do it correctly next time?

[Arzja]

On 6/10/2021 at 8:01 AM, Rellsipels said:

Hello!

I would argue that you retreat first, no matter whose turn it is. Wounds are allocated AFTER attacks have been resolved and then you remove slain models. Meaning you get to retreat before he gets to pile in. 

The retreat move also occurs after attacks have been resolved though. So it may very well be dependant on whose turn it is.

[Rellsipels]

Hello!

I would argue that you retreat first, no matter whose turn it is. Wounds are allocated AFTER attacks have been resolved and then you remove slain models. Meaning you get to retreat before he gets to pile in. 

[Rellsipels]

5 hours ago, Arzja said:

The retreat move also occurs after attacks have been resolved though. So it may very well be dependant on whose turn it is.

But attacks are resolved before models are slain. The Khinerais ability triggers immediately after attacks are resolved but before a model is slain. The berzerlers ability triggers when a model is slain but before it's removed. So I still think the Khinerais ability triggers first. The berzerkers will still get to make their pile-in though, but might not be in range to attack. 

[Arzja]

16 hours ago, Rellsipels said:

But attacks are resolved before models are slain. The Khinerais ability triggers immediately after attacks are resolved but before a model is slain.

There's the problem. The Khinerai ability doesn't trigger immediately. It just says you can roll a dice after all attacks have been resolved. So that means it occurs at the same time as wound allocation and since slain models are removed during wound allocation due to wound allocation technically happening one wound at a time, both abilities are essentially occurring at the same time. Which is usually resolved by turn order in other conflicting rules.

A small note that may cause even further confusion. The wound allocation section of the rules does actually use the wording "Once all attacks have been resolved...." which could be read as a synonym for immediately but that's debatable. Honestly GW needs to clean up their language to prevent things like this. Some of the previewed rules for AOS 3.0 do seem to use better language so fingers crossed I guess.