AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

[Ghoooouls]

8 hours ago, SentinelGuy said:

Or GW could just rewrite the scrolls for named heroes so that they know all the spells from a particular lore. The new Sylvaneth guy has that on his scroll. Wouldn't be surprised if the others don't get the same treatment.

This could make some way too good to ally in to other armies IMO.

[Dracan]

Question on command abilities, the core rules say

If you use an aura command from a character that lasts till his next hero phase, that is obviously his command for the phase.

However as there are no units who are the target, does that mean units that are effected even though they arent the target can still be the target of other commands? 

[Joseph Mackay]

2 hours ago, Ghoooouls said:

This could make some way too good to ally in to other armies IMO.

Exhibit A: Lord Kroak can use the Slann spell lore in a Grand Alliance army because his new warscroll says he knows all the spells. That is no doubt a big part of why he went up 110pts because he really doesn’t seem worth 430pts honestly but he needed to be removed as an ally to Stormcast (note that I’m not saying he didn’t need an increase, just that his new warscroll isn’t worth the increase he got, and that he purely went up to stop allies)

[Ghoooouls]

1 hour ago, Dracan said:

Question on command abilities, the core rules say

If you use an aura command from a character that lasts till his next hero phase, that is obviously his command for the phase.

However as there are no units who are the target, does that mean units that are effected even though they arent the target can still be the target of other commands? 

Yup as they aren't the target

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Dracan said:

If you use an aura command from a character that lasts till his next hero phase, that is obviously his command for the phase.

However as there are no units who are the target, does that mean units that are effected even though they arent the target can still be the target of other commands? 

The way I understand it, the hero who uses an aura command ability both issues the command (obviously) and revceives it (because they become the source of the aura, so they need to be the "target" of the command). Other units that benefit do not receive the command, because they are not selected as a target for it when issuing the command.

Here's an example from Gravelords, who we can probably treat as a book with AoS 3 design:

Quote

Call to the Hunt:

You can use this command ability at the start of the combat phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly model with this command ability that made a charge move in that turn. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly Soulblight Gravelords units wholly within 18" of that model until the end of that phase. The same unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per phase

Bold for emphasis: You pick the model that has this aura command ability when you use it, which I would say means it receives the command.

[Benkei]

6 hours ago, TheMuphinMan said:

So I'm hoping so, but in match play rules it say that you have to pay additional points to reinforce units right? Because if not, I feel like everyone is just going to reinforce their highest point units because for example why get more acolytes when you could get more stormfiends for a reinforcement point?

Reinforcement onky changes the maximum amount of miniatures in the unit, you atill have to pay for them

[Sleboda]

Anyone else notice that the rules now define terrain as terrain kits from GW for AoS?

I don't they meant that only "official" AoS, GW-made kits qualify as terrain, but ya never know.

[Aturox]

If i am able to reroll my spells with vykros dynasty in Soulblight Gravelords can i reroll if i roll a double 1 or is the effect still valid?

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

2 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Anyone else notice that the rules now define terrain as terrain kits from GW for AoS?

I don't they meant that only "official" AoS, GW-made kits qualify as terrain, but ya never know.

I don't remember seeing anything about it having to be Citadel brand models terrain or even saw a Trademark or anything.  Just that it is Age of Sigmar terrain.  So as long as you declare all the terrain on the table as Age of Sigmar terrain, we should be fine.  Just don't go and call some of it Bolt Action, 40k terrain or some other game (which would be against the rules) and you should be fine.  If you are really worried about it, just write "Age of Sigmar terrain" on the piece.  So there isn't any doubt.

 

BTW, I am being both serious and comical dependent on how serious or comical someone takes this rule.

[Kaylethia]

21 minutes ago, Aturox said:

If i am able to reroll my spells with vykros dynasty in Soulblight Gravelords can i reroll if i roll a double 1 or is the effect still valid?

All effects like that activate after rerolls. If your reroll is no longer a double 1, a miscast doesn't happen.

[Beliman]

25 minutes ago, Aturox said:

If i am able to reroll my spells with vykros dynasty in Soulblight Gravelords can i reroll if i roll a double 1 or is the effect still valid?

Yes, you can re-roll to try to avoid miscats. The Miscasts happens in an unmodified roll:

Quote

On an unmodified casting roll of 2, the spell is miscast.

And Unmodified rolls are after re-rolls:

Quote

Rules that refer to an unmodified roll are referring to the dice roll after re-rolls have been made but before modifiers are applied

Edited June 16, 2021 by Beliman

[lare2]

How many command points do you get per turn if your general's alive? The below confuses me somewhat...  

4.1.1 STARTING COMMAND POINTS After determining who will take which turn, the player who will take the first turn receives 1 command point (see 6.0) and the player who will take the second turn receives 2 command points.

6.0 COMMAND POINTS Command points allow you to use command abilities. You receive command points at the start of the battle round after priority is determined (see 4.1). In addition, if your general is on the battlefield at the start of the hero phase, you receive 1 command point. At the end of the battle round (see 16.0), any command points that have not been used are lost.

I always assumed it would be 1 for first and 2 for second but the impression here is it's 2 for first and 3 for second. Am I reading that right? 

EDIT: No, hang on, I think I got it. It's 1 and 2 CP at the beginning of the round. Then you get an extra one each hero phase for the general. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by lare2

[Acrozatarim]

Correct, so if you go first in a round and you have a general, you get 1 CP to start with, 1 immediately in your Hero phase for having a general, and 1 in your opponent's Hero phase if your general is still alive, giving you a minimum of 3 before any artefacts, traits, or Heroic Leadership actions.

[Zeblasky]

Last main things left right now are points and warscroll changes. Wonder when they will be up for preview.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Zeblasky

[Malakree]

6 hours ago, Dracan said:

 

Ooph I missed that the same CA couldn't be used twice. That's a massive nerd for ironjawz compared to big Waaagh!

[PJetski]

9 minutes ago, Zeblasky said:

Last main things left right now are points and warscroll changes. Wonder when they will be up for preview.

I'm sure we will see a full review of all these products by various youtube channels the day they go up for pre-order, just like we do for every new book

[Sleboda]

1 hour ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

I don't remember seeing anything about it having to be Citadel brand models terrain or even saw a Trademark or anything.  Just that it is Age of Sigmar terrain. 

Oh?

See below. It defines what a scenery piece is as a thingamabob from the Warhammer AoS range. Because it doesn't say other stuff can be as well, this is the only thing defined to be.

 

Now, clearly I'm taking a bit of the wee, but, you know, just sayin'.

[Malakree]

Question.

A Megaboss on Foot has 7 wounds. They also have strength from victory which causes them to gain a wound at the end of the combat phase if they killed one or more models.

Does this mean if a Megaboss gains 3 stacks from Strength from Victory, thus now having a wound characteristic of 10, suddenly loses the look out sir bonus?

[Scurvydog]

29 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Ooph I missed that the same CA couldn't be used twice. That's a massive nerd for ironjawz compared to big Waaagh!

Yes this is a big deal to Ironjawz, only 1 mighty destroyers per turn is a real kick in the teef.

FeC will also feel the sting badly, only ever being able to fight twice with 1 unit per turn, that will severely limit their alpha potential.

And obviously bonereapers are just out in the cold with this entire system, getting all the drawbacks and none of the benefits.

[PJetski]

3 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Question.

A Megaboss on Foot has 7 wounds. They also have strength from victory which causes them to gain a wound at the end of the combat phase if they killed one or more models.

Does this mean if a Megaboss gains 3 stacks from Strength from Victory, thus now having a wound characteristic of 10, suddenly loses the look out sir bonus?

Yes, since it changes the Characteristic

[Malakree]

Just now, PJetski said:

Yes, since it changes the Characteristic

That's what I thought /facepalm

[Ganigumo]

19 hours ago, frostyeel said:

I don't see how it's even RAW when the sidenote to Spell Lore says "every Wizard". With an underline! That emphasis on the word every is also part of the written rules.

I see RAW as not existing due to ambiguities, and it just needs an FAQ.

 

18 hours ago, Beliman said:

Just to point it out:

Unique characters can't take enhancements, unless noted otherwise (read last point).
So, what happens if we take one Spell Lore or a Prayer Scripture Enhancement?

So, we take 1 spell or 1 prayer for each Wizard or Priest in our army. So, this Enhancement is not given to one unit as, for example, Artifacts or Command Traits. But, there is more:

I think that when the rules says "every", it means exactly that. Doesn't matter if it's Unique or not, it calls for all Priest and Wizards on your army. If we look at the first point, I would say that it's the first example of "unless noted otherwise".

Don't forget about this sidebar:

So even if they can take a spell they cant use it anyways.

7 hours ago, Dracan said:

Question on command abilities, the core rules say

If you use an aura command from a character that lasts till his next hero phase, that is obviously his command for the phase.

However as there are no units who are the target, does that mean units that are effected even though they arent the target can still be the target of other commands? 

Just looking at the fatemaster and LoC it looks like the target is the unit emanating the aura. So the hero itself is the target of the command, which makes the most sense.

[Beliman]

57 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Don't forget about this sidebar:

So even if they can take a spell they cant use it anyways.

Imho, the bold part is not 100% true.

This sidebar is used as a generic rule for all Enhancements, mainly the ones that follow the basic rules (Command Traits or artefacts for example, you give them to one unit). 

But you can't give a Spell nor Prayer (unique or not) with Enhancement because the rules of Spell Lores and Prayer Scriptures have another mechanic that don't follow the same rules (27.3.4 and 27.3.5).

You take an Spell Lore or Prayer Scripture Enhancement (you don't give them), and that allows your priests and wizards to know 1 spell or prayer. 

Even that, there is another sidebar 100% related to prayers and spells that tells exactly what you can do:

Quote

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Beliman

[Ganigumo]

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Imho, the bold part is not 100% true.

This sidebar is used as a generic rule for all Enhancements, mainly the ones that follow the basic rules (Command Traits or artefacts for example, you give them to one unit). 

But you can't give a Spell nor Prayer (unique or not) with Enhancement because the rules of Spell Lores and Prayer Scriptures have another mechanic that don't follow the same rules (27.3.4 and 27.3.5).

You take an Spell Lore or Prayer Scripture Enhancement (you don't give them), and that allows your priests and wizards to know 1 spell or prayer. 

Even that, there is another sidebar 100% related to prayers and spells that tells exactly what you can do:

 

There is no evidence in the rules to indicate that "taken" and "given" are different, or that Spell Lores and Prayer Scriptures are special cases other than the fact that they apply to more than one unit at a time which doesn't contradict the basic enhancement rules in 27.3 anyways that states enhancements are given to specific units. 

These rules are just written poorly, there should just be a short exception in Spell Lores and Prayer scriptures for Unique characters, even if you think the rules work as is, the fact we are having a discussion about it is proof of how poorly it was written.

[Beliman]

Just now, Ganigumo said:

There is no evidence in the rules to indicate that "taken" and "given" are different, or that Spell Lores and Prayer Scriptures are special cases other than the fact that they apply to more than one unit at a time which doesn't contradict the basic enhancement rules in 27.3 anyways that states enhancements are given to specific units. 

These rules are just written poorly, there should just be a short exception in Spell Lores and Prayer scriptures for Unique characters, even if you think the rules work as is, the fact we are having a discussion about it is proof of how poorly it was written.

I think that this conversation will not improve. Just talk to your TO and see what he thinks, and play according to that.

Btw, I'm with you that the wording seems a bit unclear.