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Triggered Effects rule (only one applied):

+

image.png.38ebc16ca70b9865e27f7909f2a8b57a.png

+

image.png.9eb58a8b17279e4720b22bd2902cc831.png

=?

Under old rules (or maybe we had this house ruled?):

Roll 6:

* 1st hit is 6 already and does MW due ability, don't roll wound/save.
* roll 2nd hit for wound (not automatic 6 also) from prayers explosive rule.

PS. These are already bad Executioners in already weak Har Kuron made somehow decent. 

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3 minutes ago, Sapca said:

Triggered Effects rule (only one applied):

+

image.png.38ebc16ca70b9865e27f7909f2a8b57a.png

+

image.png.9eb58a8b17279e4720b22bd2902cc831.png

=?

Under old rules (or maybe we had this house ruled?):

Roll 6:

* 1st hit is 6 already and does MW due ability, don't roll wound/save.
* roll 2nd hit for wound (not automatic 6 also) from prayers explosive rule.

PS. These are already bad Executioners in already weak Har Kuron made somehow decent. 

The old core rules FAQ had an answer to this case, which is that you get a mortal wound and an extra hit (which I think is how you were playing it).

Under the new rules, it seems like you will have to choose only one of these effects.

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On 6/4/2021 at 3:31 PM, SpiritofHokuto said:

Has this actually been officially confirmed anywhere? Or are we still at the "Dude, trust me" stage? I know about the Core book battalions that are coming and for them to be bridging the gap between the "have and have nots". But if this does mean that all Battletome battalions are being nixed from Matched play, it's going to be a big blow for certain armies like Jawz of Mork that pretty much rely on their battalions to make their army work properly. But then again maybe the Core book battalions will be so generally powerful and useful that supplanting the Battletome battalions will be relatively painless? 

If you look at the video's of ppl reviewing the rules. They sometimes show a picture of the first page of matched play. It states that you can not use warscroll batelions in matched play. So it's official. But i am willing to bet my left nut. That the new  battletomes will have  battalions you can use beside the generic ones. 

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33 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

 

If you look at the video's of ppl reviewing the rules. They sometimes show a picture of the first page of matched play. It states that you can not use warscroll batelions in matched play. So it's official. But i am willing to bet my left nut. That the new  battletomes will have  battalions you can use beside the generic ones. 

I don't think they will, this system was made to level the playing field in matched play. All the current battalions are useless for their points as all artifact/CP does no longer apply anyway for any mode of play. I can't see them just making new warscroll battalions suddenly, especially as the core rules say they are not allowed in matched play. 

I could see some armies getting synergies with certain core battalions or special enhancements etc.

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5 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The old core rules FAQ had an answer to this case, which is that you get a mortal wound and an extra hit (which I think is how you were playing it).

Under the new rules, it seems like you will have to choose only one of these effects.

DoK:
Khailebron has Whisperdeath (hits of 6 deal MW + normal damage)

Kelt Nar has Gaisa Falx (6 does 2 hits)

You can't change those two artifacts, must take. And you take them on your Shrine/Cauldron

DoK's primary damage prayer is exploding 6ses where magic happens on melee hit 6 (2 hits), Shrine/Cauldron is relatively good target for it.

I don't mind new rule of picking one. But I do mind factions designed with "problem" inbuilt.

CoS probably has 20+ of broken combos (broken as not working anymore) with this since is biggest model/rule range possible to think of.

But "smaller" factions should be free from these hard interactions unless they take in some sort of allies. I already feel cheated by not able to select super wide range of traits for my generals since everything is locked in with subfactions, which you basically must take...

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1 hour ago, Yondaime said:

Yes but since the +- cap you cannot use quartz to boost save further 

Doesn't he also have an ethereal spell? So 3+ ignoring red with a 5+ ward, healing 2d3 each battle round. Pretty crazy, but I think all the big boys will be a lot better.

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1 hour ago, Sapca said:

DoK:
Khailebron has Whisperdeath (hits of 6 deal MW + normal damage)

Kelt Nar has Gaisa Falx (6 does 2 hits)

You can't change those two artifacts, must take. And you take them on your Shrine/Cauldron

DoK's primary damage prayer is exploding 6ses where magic happens on melee hit 6 (2 hits), Shrine/Cauldron is relatively good target for it.

I don't mind new rule of picking one. But I do mind factions designed with "problem" inbuilt.

CoS probably has 20+ of broken combos (broken as not working anymore) with this since is biggest model/rule range possible to think of.

But "smaller" factions should be free from these hard interactions unless they take in some sort of allies. I already feel cheated by not able to select super wide range of traits for my generals since everything is locked in with subfactions, which you basically must take...

Bonesplitterz "thing" was being able to stack exploding hits, they even put the designer's commentary in the book explaining how it works.
Luckily warclans will be one of the first tomes.

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9 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

Doesn't he also have an ethereal spell? So 3+ ignoring red with a 5+ ward, healing 2d3 each battle round. Pretty crazy, but I think all the big boys will be a lot better.

How many times does it needs to come up that ethereal ignores modifiers?

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1 minute ago, SentinelGuy said:

Am I the only one that looks at the new flaming sword spell and sees that as GW trying to buff the monster riding spellcasters like the wizard on griffon? I don't really think it's going to help if I'm honest.

Yeah, what its actually cheeky for is comboing with the tome artifact, to turn anything into a wizard that can cast flaming sword, like Mega-Gargants (that aren't kraken eaters, they could already become wizards) and bloodthirsters.

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23 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

Doesn't he also have an ethereal spell? So 3+ ignoring red with a 5+ ward, healing 2d3 each battle round. Pretty crazy, but I think all the big boys will be a lot better.

 

-Etheral ignore negative AND positive mod, so if you use the spell on teclis he will save at 4+ period, pretty wasted on him, unless you face something with -3 rend

-where did you take the 2d3 heal? he can cast the wind spell to heal, but again, another spell wasted, and if you mean the new comand ability its one per game

-considering you use the above spells. and the 5+ ward, those are a lot of spell, and if used all by teclis you remain with just 1 spell, 660 point wasted with no damage output

You put A LOT of egg in one basket, teclis is strong but its nowhere near op

Teclis take advantage and disavantage in this new edition, he gets all the new cool rules but those -+ hurt him A LOT

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29 minutes ago, Fred1245 said:

How many times does it needs to come up that ethereal ignores modifiers?

i find that the less experience in the game, the more the whine about balance

 

EDIT: rereading maybe i was too rude, but thats no offence, if you play with no exp and find an opponent that gives wardens 2+ reroll ignoring rend and you have no rule knowledge ofc some things looks broken

Edited by Yondaime
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26 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Yeah, what its actually cheeky for is comboing with the tome artifact, to turn anything into a wizard that can cast flaming sword, like Mega-Gargants (that aren't kraken eaters, they could already become wizards) and bloodthirsters.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Yeah, what its actually cheeky for is comboing with the tome artifact, to turn anything into a wizard that can cast flaming sword, like Mega-Gargants (that aren't kraken eaters, they could already become wizards) and bloodthirsters.

Unfortunately I don't see how mega gargants would have access to enough enhancements to get both a universal artefact and a universal spell lore since they can't take any of the core battalions which provide enhancements (I think?)

 

EDIT: ok kraken eater with their own wizard artefact and then go "no tribe" to take the universal spell lore maybe

Edited by Marcvs
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4 minutes ago, Yondaime said:

yes, and how i already written, its once per game

No, it's once per turn. There are 10 turns split across 5 battle rounds.

Meaning up to 10 times a game.

 

7.1 HEROES AND HEROIC ACTIONS
A unit with the Hero keyword on its warscroll is a Hero. At the start of
the hero phase, you can carry out 1 heroic action from the table below
with 1 friendly Hero. The effect of the heroic action is treated in the
same way as the effect of an ability for rules purposes (see 1.6).

 

Heroic Recovery: Pick 1 friendly Hero and make a
heroic recovery roll by rolling 2D6. If the roll is less
than that Hero’s Bravery characteristic, you can heal
up to D3 wounds allocated to that Hero. If the roll is
equal to that Hero’s Bravery characteristic you can
heal 1 wound allocated to that Hero.

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1 minute ago, Liquidsteel said:

No, it's once per turn. There are 10 turns split across 5 battle rounds.

Meaning up to 10 times a game.

 

7.1 HEROES AND HEROIC ACTIONS
A unit with the Hero keyword on its warscroll is a Hero. At the start of
the hero phase, you can carry out 1 heroic action from the table below
with 1 friendly Hero. The effect of the heroic action is treated in the
same way as the effect of an ability for rules purposes (see 1.6).

 

Heroic Recovery: Pick 1 friendly Hero and make a
heroic recovery roll by rolling 2D6. If the roll is less
than that Hero’s Bravery characteristic, you can heal
up to D3 wounds allocated to that Hero. If the roll is
equal to that Hero’s Bravery characteristic you can
heal 1 wound allocated to that Hero.

i stand corrected, i am sorry

 

I was confused with Their finest hour 

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12 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

 

 

Unfortunately I don't see how mega gargants would have access to enough enhancements to get both a universal artefact and a universal spell lore since they can't take any of the core battalions which provide enhancements (I think?)

 

EDIT: ok kraken eater with their own wizard artefact and then go "no tribe" to take the universal spell lore maybe

You get 1 of each kind of enhancement for free, including spell lores.
Spell Lores lets each wizard take a spell from any of the lores they have access to.

The generic enhancements can be used by any army so any wizard could take one of them with their spell choice.
You don't need to spend an extra enhancement to get one of the generic ones, they're just available as an option to anyone.

Edit: Also gargants aren't locked into an artifact with their subfactions so they can choose to take generic ones.
 

Edited by Ganigumo
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23 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

You get 1 of each kind of enhancement for free, including spell lores.
Spell Lores lets each wizard take a spell from any of the lores they have access to.

The generic enhancements can be used by any army so any wizard could take one of them with their spell choice.
You don't need to spend an extra enhancement to get one of the generic ones, they're just available as an option to anyone.

Edit: Also gargants aren't locked into an artifact with their subfactions so they can choose to take generic ones.
 

very true! I hadn't considered that they aren't locked in their choice of artefact

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1 hour ago, Fred1245 said:

How many times does it needs to come up that ethereal ignores modifiers?

Yea this depends entirely on faqs and updates as the soulblight 'ethereal' spell only ignores negative modifiers, but still ethereal 4+ with 5+ ward, a 4+ immunity to magic and auto dispelling a spell + healing 2d3 is definitely not squishy.

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1 hour ago, Yondaime said:

i find that the less experience in the game, the more the whine about balance

 

EDIT: rereading maybe i was too rude, but thats no offence, if you play with no exp and find an opponent that gives wardens 2+ reroll ignoring rend and you have no rule knowledge ofc some things looks broken

I'm just at work and very tired so it slipped my mind, but yes obviously ignoring modifiers also ignores positive modifiers.

You heal 2d3 from heroic actions each battle round, have access to automatic ethereal spell so 4+ ignoring modifiers, 5+ ward etc etc as I've already stated above, he's definitely not squishy. And casting certain spells aren't wasted, he's a huge buffing piece that even if he does no spells at all he's giving almost army-wide spell immunity on a 4+ and dishing out mortals in return. Him purely casting spells isn't all he does.

The ethereal spell is definitely not wasted on him, if he's coming in a 2k a battle, he's the priority target especially for things like ironclads and heavy shooting lists. With ethereal he's saving 50% of shots on him even if they are rend 2 or higher (cannon shots at rend 2 making him need to roll a 6 vs needing to roll a 4 is massive), then also has a 5+ ward on top of that and the free hero phase heals.

Moreover he doesn't only give himself the ward, he gives it to his massive bubble. On top of 4+ spell immunity baked in. Makes the whole army tougher, and keeping him ethereal means the whole army will be tougher for longer.

All he really needs to do is sit back and cast ethereal, protection, his seering storm through a spell portal and you're golden. And you still have one spell left over if you put the portal up with someone else.

Anyway, this is going very off topic. My point is that all the big guys (teclis definitely included) are now VERY hard to kill, 2d3 heals per round can be crazy good, on top of potential heals elsewhere and wards etc. AND the new heroic actions and monstrous actions, make large heroes incredibly good now, and I think not taking one is just gimping yourself now.

Not just picking on the elves here too. I play soulblight and can see this being very troublesome- mannfred can now heal 4d3 per battle round, ignoring the first wound in each phase and teleporting out of combat if he wants. On top of this, he can cast arcane bolt, charge into combat, do the monstrous stomp for d3 mortals, unleash arcane bolt for d3 mortals, then teleport away anywhere on the map.

Neferata can now heal 2d6+2d3 per battleround and can be 2+ ethereal relatively easily.

Edited by Ghoooouls
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