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AoS 3 New Rules Discussion


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16 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

There has to be some sort of change, right? That was always one of the most prevalent complaints about AoS 2: Battleshock just kind of does not exist because Inspiring Presence is just so easy to give out. And if it stays as it is, it's only getting easier, since there are more command points around and unit champions can possibly use it. Plus all those +1 bravery abilites they have been printing recently.

Personally, I would guess that Inspiring Presence and all the reroll 1s abilites are probably not sticking around. I say this because it seems like getting a 2+ to hit/wound/save is getting a lot more achievable, given the most recent warscrolls we have seen. And in that situations, reroll 1s is actually quite strong. If hit, wound and save bonuses get capped at +1 to reduce buff stacking, then having rerolls still be commonplace seems like it would conflict with that design goal.

I think if they are going to let unit champions use command abilities you are also going to have to significantly change Bravery / Inspiring Presence as well as unit coherency.

If you don't I think it will massively incentivise (along with smaller boards) big long lines of chaff units that, unless your army can remove specific models, will take multiple turns to chew through.

I don't think that's something GW wants and I definitely don't think that's what players want so I would expect more changes.

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3 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

If you don't I think it will massively incentivise (along with smaller boards) big long lines of chaff units that, unless your army can remove specific models, will take multiple turns to chew through.

That must almost certainly be a concern the rules team has in mind, since that's the reason why they switched to "wholly within" in the first place. They definitely don't want these kinds of long, strung out units to return.

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I think these rule changes go a long way to make predatory endless spells worth using. Having them bound to the wizard that summoned them by default is a good way to treat them. It's also very nice and flavourful that they continue rampaging around the battlefield as wild spells if you kill the wizard.

Interesting that priests are getting more generic rules and roles. I wonder if that means we will see more units with the PRIEST keyword in the next edition. Currently, priests are very unevenly distributed, and there are only a handful in the game.

Other than that, ven Denst Witch Hunter stonks!

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7 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I felt comfortable adding this to the OP because "Battalions are gone in matched play, replaced with generic battalions" was one of the first AoS 3 rumours we got from ListLab, and it has since been confirmed that generic battalions are a thing.

ListLab has been reliable so far. I don't doubt that their other rumours will pan out, either, but I am waiting for official GW confirmation on stuff like charge reactions before I put them in.

That's fair. It just feels like the kind of thing that could have been easily misunderstood by a leaker and since we know Soulblight and BR were made for 3.0 it seems like they wouldnt have put batallions in if they're going away. I mean those are printed right into the soulblight battletome right? Knowing they would be invalidated months later? And I know covid screwed the release window but they plan these well in advance and have even said that these last couple releases were made with 3rd in mind.

 

Maybe I'm just delusional because I play BoC out of BoK with brass despoilers and if that doesnt stay then I've got a lot of useless models all of a sudden lol 

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1 minute ago, The Red King said:

That's fair. It just feels like the kind of thing that could have been easily misunderstood by a leaker and since we know Soulblight and BR were made for 3.0 it seems like they wouldnt have put batallions in if they're going away. I mean those are printed right into the soulblight battletome right? Knowing they would be invalidated months later? And I know covid screwed the release window but they plan these well in advance and have even said that these last couple releases were made with 3rd in mind.

 

Maybe I'm just delusional because I play BoC out of BoK with brass despoilers and if that doesnt stay then I've got a lot of useless models all of a sudden lol 

I really hope Beasts of Chaos get some kind of fix relatively soon, so that their units remain usable in the chaos god allegiances. For everyone else, though, I full expect current battalions to just become narrative only, as awkward as that is with respect to the new Soulblight/BR battalions.

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I'm thinking the 'ward save' thing might be a new universal rule to simplify after-saves and things that ignore them, though of course it could well follow the 40k pattern of after-saves (i.e. the Phoenix Guard 4++) and invulnerable/ward saves being distinct from one another. 

Edited by Jaskier
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9 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

I'm thinking the 'ward save' thing might be a new universal rule to simplify after-saves and things that ignore them, though of course it could well follow the 40k pattern of after-saves (i.e. the Phoenix Guard 4++) and invulnerable/ward saves being distinct from one another. 

I would be surprised if they bring save stacking back after they went through all that trouble to remove it. So I hope "ward" is just the new term for "damage prevention roll".

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I really like those new rules, I wonder how Wild endless spells will operate. Its obviously not in there now but expanding this system to have wizards battling for control of spells would be pretty cool.

 

Only real complaint would be the 48" for dispelling invocations. That is functionally the entire board, would personally have kept it at 30" like endless spells but that's just me.

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It seems to me that moving endless spells each hero phase makes double turns deadlier, which is ironic since endless spells were introduced as a way to mitigate the effects of double turns. Previously you would drop a spell at the bottom of round 1 as insurance against an enemy winning the priority roll, since if you were going second you could move the spell at the start of the round and disrupt them somewhat.

Now if you cast endless spells at the bottom of a round you could end up going first in the next round AND move the spell without a chance for your opponent to respond. Furthermore, since you control each spell you cast, this could lead to a tremendous amount of damage done through 3+ endless spells in a double turn.

Using endless spells defensively is going to be more difficult because they move at the end of the hero phase after your opponent has a chance to dispel them. You can drop them in the top of round 1, then your opponent gets a chance to dispel before they move again. This was not always the case in 2nd edition.

So spells are going to be more aggressive and less useful on defense. If they don't reduce their damage with the new warscrolls confirmed in GHB 2021 then magic domination armies will get even stronger in 3rd edition.

Edited by PJetski
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Annihilators will cost somewhat close to Kurnoth Hunters I guess. 180 points. Weapon profile is similar. Where Kurnoth Hunters have more wounds, Annihilators have better save. I'm not sure if it was fair if Annihilators cost much less.

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.    ZSo with the new rules for invocations...what exactly is the point of DoK's fist thing?

You're paying 80pts for a 66% chance at -1 damage, that your opponent has a 50% chance at getting rid of before you can actually use it.

That's 80pts for a 67% chance of literally doing nothing.

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1 minute ago, Fred1245 said:

 

.    ZSo with the new rules for invocations...what exactly is the point of DoK's fist thing?

You're paying 80pts for a 66% chance at -1 damage, that your opponent has a 50% chance at getting rid of before you can actually use it.

That's 80pts for a 67% chance of literally doing nothing.

Grandiose Game Design

image.jpeg.1554dcd3ac97a350facf35d762e14b18.jpeg

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1 hour ago, The Red King said:

That's fair. It just feels like the kind of thing that could have been easily misunderstood by a leaker and since we know Soulblight and BR were made for 3.0 it seems like they wouldnt have put batallions in if they're going away. I mean those are printed right into the soulblight battletome right? Knowing they would be invalidated months later? And I know covid screwed the release window but they plan these well in advance and have even said that these last couple releases were made with 3rd in mind.

 

Maybe I'm just delusional because I play BoC out of BoK with brass despoilers and if that doesnt stay then I've got a lot of useless models all of a sudden lol 

Well remember that part of the rumor was that the battalions were only going away in Matched Play, they'll still be fully usable in Narrative and Open Play. I think that might be the part of the rumor that convinces the cynic in me the most. GW can use the excuse that the battalions are still technically there while people who just want matched play are forced to re-tool their army and buy all sorts of new models to fit the core battalions. 

On the positive side it might push people to try out Narrative more and get some variety in gaming. It'd also couple well with the new Path to Glory system they're implementing and maybe give people some incentive to dive in.

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