AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

[Beliman]

4 hours ago, Cronotekk said:

 Having more small units means its harder to buff you units against shooting AND your will be less effective in melee due to combat activations. Rally is so irrelevant that it will not improve survivability in a game full of tiny MSU units 

We agree to disagree then.

We need some 3.0 games before continue this conversations, adn we need to know new GHB2021 points too. But from what we know, I think that 3.0 will bring a lot more gameplay oportunities to deal with Shooting.

[Malakree]

If stuff really is going up ~15% we might see some tournaments transition to 2.5k as the base size. It would even bring the board size up to ~ the current standard.

[Erdemo86]

8 minutes ago, Malakree said:

If stuff really is going up ~15% we might see some tournaments transition to 2.5k as the base size. It would even bring the board size up to ~ the current standard.

I don’t know, but I think games would last too long if you play 2500 with new rules in a tournament.

[Fuxxx]

I'm really wondering about the other new battleplans. When the rumors about having units at a minimum size depending on the boxes they come in are true, I think Stormcast might have a little problem: all the units that were cheap so far would be more expensive by double, which means even less units on the board which means controlling objectives becomes harder - it'd be interesting to see how holding objectives now works. Of course it would make it even harder to fill out batallions compared to let's just say Gitz.

[Zappgrot]

4 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

Yeah it is going to be an interesting time seeing how these characters all interact with the new rules and the more prominent characters are all going to have the biggest changes. I am interested in seeing what happens to ye ol' Celestant Prime. For being Sigmar's right hand, this character has always felt like a slight afterthought on the battlefield which will now be compounded by a lack of Monster keyword. But it is very apparent that SCE are going to get an update to their rules and I can see ol' Prime getting a second swing at greatness. Although the Stardrake has always put the Prime in an odd position as both the named leader of the faction but also the discount centre piece for the army. I wonder if making him a priest would benefit his role on the battlefield?

Either way it is a stunning model and cool character that feels like a forgotten alternate choice to the many other cool centre pieces in the army. Yndrasta also compounds this issue by doing the angel thing in a more classical style...


I do like that the other major players all feel like they are going to get much better and GW either paired them with monsters or made them into monsters. I think the Celestant Prime is on my mind as I am hoping to get the Star Drake this model better fits my budget. 

I always tought the prime to be pretty effective in the game as counter to chaff units holding objectives.  Comming in from the sky whit a gauranteed charge and all. But he just has wierd rules for a center piece model. I mean  him getting better if you do not play whit him for 2 turns rewards dull play. 

[Zappgrot]

14 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

I don’t know, but I think games would last too long if you play 2500 with new rules in a tournament.

I think tournament play will last longer no matter what. The new coherency rules seem like they will promote a lot of discussion. At least untill ppl get used to it.  

[Fred1245]

50 minutes ago, Malakree said:

If stuff really is going up ~15% we might see some tournaments transition to 2.5k as the base size. It would even bring the board size up to ~ the current standard.

We absolutely will not. Tournaments are sighing in relief at the idea of games getting smaller and faster. Having 3+ hour rounds isn't something anyone wants (or can have, venues have closong times after all.)

[Fred1245]

27 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

I think tournament play will last longer no matter what. The new coherency rules seem like they will promote a lot of discussion. At least untill ppl get used to it.  

People aren't generally going to 'get used to it' AT tournaments. Most players will be familiar enough for it not to be an issues. Especially at big events.

[Zappgrot]

1 hour ago, Fred1245 said:

People aren't generally going to 'get used to it' AT tournaments. Most players will be familiar enough for it not to be an issues. Especially at big events.

I kind of suspect a lot of players will not enforce that rule all that much in casual play. Since it really doesn't matter all that much intill it does cause something is on the line. 

[Fred1245]

20 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

I kind of suspect a lot of players will not enforce that rule all that much in casual play. Since it really doesn't matter all that much intill it does cause something is on the line. 

While some players may choose to deliberately cheat, most people who intend to go to events will understand that they're going to NEED to play coherency correctly so are going to do so.

[JonnyTheKing]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

If stuff really is going up ~15% we might see some tournaments transition to 2.5k as the base size. It would even bring the board size up to ~ the current standard.

I don’t see it, saw the same conversations in the 40K crowd when 9th was getting shown off and nobody did it, turns out the increase in points doesn’t change too much and actually helps players stay in the 2 hour limit at tournies

[SorryLizard]

Also that 15% points increase will degrade as the edition goes along and later armies are released and GHBs update points. After a year or two it'll be the equivalent of no points increases.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, JonnyTheKing said:

I don’t see it, saw the same conversations in the 40K crowd when 9th was getting shown off and nobody did it, turns out the increase in points doesn’t change too much and actually helps players stay in the 2 hour limit at tournies

Tournament games are 2:30? It depends on how severe the points increase is and the actual impact it has on list building. It's would be equivalent to building a 1750 list at the moment which is highly restrictive for some armies and essentially forces standardisation of lists on those armies.

[Neverchosen]

18 hours ago, Zappgrot said:

If you waste all your points on ineffective units. Then your army is going to be easy to smash.  No matter if they are on objectives or not.

As someone with a ton of chaos warriors you bet I will waste my points on ineffective units, and I have lots of fun trying to not get them smashed. I am not a big fan of the change in unit size but only because of the way I have already built my units 2x5 with dual weapons and 1x20 sword and shield. But I think having the mimimum unit size matching the models being sold is a great idea. I am concerned what that will mean for Warcry models though as they were initially sold in the size of a unit but the box got doubled upon later releases. 

Same with a number of Stormcast units that initially started in groups of 5 for start collecting boxes and starter sets but sell 10 in their individual boxes. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Reuben Parker]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Tournament games are 2:30? It depends on how severe the points increase is and the actual impact it has on list building. It's would be equivalent to building a 1750 list at the moment which is highly restrictive for some armies and essentially forces standardisation of lists on those armies.

I saw someone pointing out earlier it may not have a huge difference to army size. A lot of top armies are running battalions for around 140 so if they lose around 200 - 300 points a big chunk of that will just be the battalion points. 
 

I guess just see how it plays out. I’m planning to go in hard on my SoB anyway in AoS3 and I doubt they will lose anything bar the 50 - 80 points you can have left over for endless spells, CP, triumph or solo mancrushers. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Reuben Parker

[Ragest]

"reportedly the core battalions are free and the warscroll battalions aren’t used in the matched play battlepack"

[Soolong]

On 6/12/2021 at 9:31 AM, zilberfrid said:

Perhaps onepagerules would fit better in your case, the amount of rules to remember is sort of spoiled by the name.

There is also no need to go to a new edition, especially if that would lock someone out of the hobby.

We use one page rules for 40k so will probley use them for AOS or just keep playing AOS 2. I might add part of the problem is games are so far apart I am having to teach him how to play every time. 

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said:

I saw someone pointing out earlier it may not have a huge difference to army size. A lot of top armies are running battalions for around 140 so if they lose around 200 - 300 points a big chunk of that will just be the battalion points. 
 

I guess just see how it plays out. I’m planning to go in hard on my SoB anyway in AoS3 and I doubt they will lose anything bar the 50 - 80 points you can have left over for endless spells, CP, triumph or solo mancrushers. 

Extra cp are probably not purchaseable and I bet if horde discounts are going we'll see mancrushers move to 165 points (495 for 3).

Rumor made it sound like triumphs were one of the "enhancement" options so we'll see if they keep the free one around.

[Fred1245]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

Tournament games are 2:30? It depends on how severe the points increase is and the actual impact it has on list building. It's would be equivalent to building a 1750 list at the moment which is highly restrictive for some armies and essentially forces standardisation of lists on those armies.

Some people said they same stuff in the run up to 9th and it wasn't really true then either.

Fact is, the people who run events and most of the people who play at events are absolutely not going to be willing to move off of 2000pts so you can fit an extra Gargant or whatever.

We'll take the blissful first few months of more people finishing their games on time before point drops inevitably creep everything back up.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Fred1245

[Reuben Parker]

14 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Extra cp are probably not purchaseable and I bet if horde discounts are going we'll see mancrushers move to 165 points (495 for 3).

Rumor made it sound like triumphs were one of the "enhancement" options so we'll see if they keep the free one around.

It will be very nice if SoB keep the option for solo mancrushers. There seem to be a lot of buffs for mega with AoS3. So playing aggressively with 3 mega whilst 3 solo mancrushers tag objectives could be a nice setup. 

[Malakree]

42 minutes ago, Fred1245 said:

Some people said they same stuff in the run up to 9th and it wasn't really true then either.

Fact is, the people who run events and most of the people who play at events are absolutely not going to be willing to move off of 2000pts so you can fit an extra Gargant or whatever.

We'll take the blissful first few months of more people finishing their games on time before point drops inevitably creep everything back up.

I've not had a problem with finishing games at tournaments for ages, if anything the points cost increase would be to counteract how much longer the new rules are going to add to the time required. The coherency rules especially are going to be a real time consumer until we get some specialised movement trays for them...

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

As someone with a ton of chaos warriors you bet I will waste my points on ineffective units, and I have lots of fun trying to not get them smashed. I am not a big fan of the change in unit size but only because of the way I have already built my units 2x5 with dual weapons and 1x20 sword and shield. But I think having the mimimum unit size matching the models being sold is a great idea. I am concerned what that will mean for Warcry models though as they were initially sold in the size of a unit but the box got doubled upon later releases. 

Same with a number of Stormcast units that initially started in groups of 5 for start collecting boxes and starter sets but sell 10 in their individual boxes. 

It will be interesting to see what they do with ardboys being in boxes of 15. I imagine they will up the min size to 10 and increase the unit cost to ~220

[Zappgrot]

5 hours ago, Fred1245 said:

While some players may choose to deliberately cheat, most people who intend to go to events will understand that they're going to NEED to play coherency correctly so are going to do so.

Of course they won't cheat? Why would you think they would? 

[Aturox]

5 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It will be interesting to see what they do with ardboys being in boxes of 15. I imagine they will up the min size to 10 and increase the unit cost to ~220

Would be an odd number though. You basically wouldnt be able to play the other 5 models if you dont purchase two boxes.. 

[Zappgrot]

2 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

As someone with a ton of chaos warriors you bet I will waste my points on ineffective units, and I have lots of fun trying to not get them smashed. I am not a big fan of the change in unit size but only because of the way I have already built my units 2x5 with dual weapons and 1x20 sword and shield. But I think having the mimimum unit size matching the models being sold is a great idea. I am concerned what that will mean for Warcry models though as they were initially sold in the size of a unit but the box got doubled upon later releases. 

Same with a number of Stormcast units that initially started in groups of 5 for start collecting boxes and starter sets but sell 10 in their individual boxes. 

 I have no clue on how your personal love for chaos warriors impacts their effectiveness.   I do however also like the idea of  unit sizes matching how they are sold.