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AoS 3 New Rules Discussion


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6 minutes ago, Ragest said:

Yes i rewached it, and it clearly states "Warscrol batalions are one of those things (...) there is an inbalance and we are going to adress those things" and something about core battalions, maybe it refers to the fact that all armyes have acces to that

Where it states that they are going to narrative?

Edited by Yondaime
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Just now, Yondaime said:

Yes i rewached it, and it clearly states "Warscrol batalions are one of those things (...) there is an inbalance and we are going to adress those things"

Where it states that they are going to narrative?

You can tell me, maybe they have made all those new battalions and remade every battalion in the game or maybe just took off old battalions from matched play like every leaker has already said.

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5 minutes ago, Ragest said:

You can tell me, maybe they have made all those new battalions and remade every battalion in the game or maybe just took off old battalions from matched play like every leaker has already said.

Things is, nothing is sure, so dont confuse people saying that gw sayed that, cause they didnt

For all we know core battalions could be a plus that all armyes can get

Mind you i am not mad for battalions to go, but i take only gw's word for true

Also, why they should remade every battalion in the game?

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1 hour ago, chord said:

This is super confusing!!  

The commander is the commander of the battalion. It can be any kind of battlefield leader. The sub commander can be a leader with a wounds characteristic of 10 or less. You can have Mannfred as commander and Belladama in the battle regiment, but if you chose Belladama as the battle regiment commander you now can't also include Mannfred. 

Regarding old battalions. Ben Johnson said in an earlier video that they would be part of the new path to glory. I would be surprised if they were also in match play though they have not yet confirmed they are not. 

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1 minute ago, Chikout said:

The commander is the commander of the battalion. It can be any kind of battlefield leader. The sub commander can be a leader with a wounds characteristic of 10 or less. You can have Mannfred as commander and Belladama in the battle regiment, but if you chose Belladama as the battle regiment commander you now can't also include Mannfred. 

Regarding old battalions. Ben Johnson said in an earlier video that they would be part of the new path to glory. I would be surprised if they were also in match play though they have not yet confirmed they are not. 

I think the image is horribly confusing.  

Reading it written out  makes a lot more sense. 

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1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

And army book design was what was wrong with warscroll battalions in the first place, so really, they've made big changes and gotten nowhere, which is not what I like to see when I think AoS2 had the best ruleset in warhammer history (even if some of the army books missed the mark pretty wildly). 

Notwithstanding that AOS might be better, i agree, AoS 2 was overall, brilliant! 

49 minutes ago, Ragest said:

this interview video is ambiguous as to whether existing battalions remain in matched play

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 Unless something significant has changed, the ability to pick who goes first will probably still be powerful and hence low drops will still look pretty attractive.

The other core battalions are mostly just allowing you 1 extra command point per battle (I almost certainly wouldn't take a battalion that did that bow) That seems decent but a long way off being able to one drop the vast majority or potentially all your army.

I sort of hope we have some other way to pick up extra artifacts (enhancements) that isn't just paying points for them, if not it feels like a lot of army's will end up strong armed in to one particular battalion to do it.

Also hoping they don't change the rule about Behemoths not counting to that limit if they are battleline.

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Is it just me, or are Command Entourage, vanguard, and  Grand Battery just bad?
The number of armies that would take 1 leader and 2 sub-commanders, and not have a troop in the army is basically 0.
vanguard does only require 1 sub-commander and 1 troop, but is pretty weak comparatively

The only armies I can think of that run multiple artillery are greywater fastness and underguts.

Linebreaker is fine for what it is, since monsters can't normally use command abilities, and there are a few armies who have trouble taking the others (like SoB, where most lists will probably shift to double linebreaker builds from now on).

Warlord and Battle Regiment are by far the best choices.

Also the optional units part is pretty underwhelming. All it really does is outside of Battle Regiment is give you an extra target for the free command abilities, so it's actually pointless in Warlord and Command Entourage.

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3 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The only armies I can think of that run multiple artillery are greywater fastness and underguts.
 


Don't forget about OBR. We play two Mortek Crawlers in majority of lists (unless you go Stalliarch Lords with cavalry focus). 

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10 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Is it just me, or are Command Entourage, vanguard, and  Grand Battery just bad?
The number of armies that would take 1 leader and 2 sub-commanders, and not have a troop in the army is basically 0.
vanguard does only require 1 sub-commander and 1 troop, but is pretty weak comparatively

The only armies I can think of that run multiple artillery are greywater fastness and underguts.

Linebreaker is fine for what it is, since monsters can't normally use command abilities, and there are a few armies who have trouble taking the others (like SoB, where most lists will probably shift to double linebreaker builds from now on).

Warlord and Battle Regiment are by far the best choices.

Also the optional units part is pretty underwhelming. All it really does is outside of Battle Regiment is give you an extra target for the free command abilities, so it's actually pointless in Warlord and Command Entourage.

Command entourage allows you to go one drop lower potentially compared to Warlord if you don't particularly need the extra command point/enhancement Warlord would give you.

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14 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

I am wondering if in Matched Play, all units must fit inside a battalion of some sort

Most factions would have a hard time making lists that don't fit inside 1-3 battalions. Sons of Behemat might have trouble, because they don't have non-behemoth commanders. The only other lists I can think of that don't easily fit in Battalions are lists that spam big mounted commanders (good riddance, tbh).

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41 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Command entourage allows you to go one drop lower potentially compared to Warlord if you don't particularly need the extra command point/enhancement Warlord would give you.

Yeah but you need to get battleline somewhere, so unless you're playing an army with behemoth battleline, foot heroes with under 10 wounds, and not bringing any kind of chaff listbuilding kind of requires you to have that troop drop anyways. You can certainly play those kinds of lists in Seraphon, FEC, SBGL, and BCR, but I imagine it's rare to not have that extra troop, especially if you're bringing foot heroes too.

38 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

I am wondering if in Matched Play, all units must fit inside a battalion of some sort

I hope not.

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55 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Is it just me, or are Command Entourage, vanguard, and  Grand Battery just bad?
The number of armies that would take 1 leader and 2 sub-commanders, and not have a troop in the army is basically 0.
vanguard does only require 1 sub-commander and 1 troop, but is pretty weak comparatively

The only armies I can think of that run multiple artillery are greywater fastness and underguts.

Linebreaker is fine for what it is, since monsters can't normally use command abilities, and there are a few armies who have trouble taking the others (like SoB, where most lists will probably shift to double linebreaker builds from now on).

Warlord and Battle Regiment are by far the best choices.

Also the optional units part is pretty underwhelming. All it really does is outside of Battle Regiment is give you an extra target for the free command abilities, so it's actually pointless in Warlord and Command Entourage.

This was my thinking too - if reducing drops are still a thing, none of the battalions bar battle regiment are that strong because dictating who goes first is that important.  Thing is, if the old battalions are all gone, then presumably this one is now the only way to reduce your drops.  Meaning you either have a choice of building an army in a "normal" archetype and not spamming big beasties or artillery or heroes, or vastly increasing your drops and never being able to dictate who goes first (the other batt bonuses are the consolation prize there).  

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44 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Is it just me, or are Command Entourage, vanguard, and  Grand Battery just bad?
The number of armies that would take 1 leader and 2 sub-commanders, and not have a troop in the army is basically 0.
vanguard does only require 1 sub-commander and 1 troop, but is pretty weak comparatively

The only armies I can think of that run multiple artillery are greywater fastness and underguts.

Linebreaker is fine for what it is, since monsters can't normally use command abilities, and there are a few armies who have trouble taking the others (like SoB, where most lists will probably shift to double linebreaker builds from now on).

Warlord and Battle Regiment are by far the best choices.

Also the optional units part is pretty underwhelming. All it really does is outside of Battle Regiment is give you an extra target for the free command abilities, so it's actually pointless in Warlord and Command Entourage.

 

10 minutes ago, EnumaEilish said:

 

Most factions would have a hard time making lists that don't fit inside 1-3 battalions. Sons of Behemat might have trouble, because they don't have non-behemoth commanders. The only other lists I can think of that don't easily fit in Battalions are lists that spam big mounted commanders (good riddance, tbh).

So if we look to 40K, every unit in your army must be a in a detachment. So thats probably going to hold true for battalions. It helps to regulate, for better or worse, wacky or spammy army lists. 

In most cases a player would put the majority of their army in a Battle Regiment or Vanguard, and then add additional supplemental units in one of the other more specialized battallions. Its essentially putting a  "leader" tax on spamming monsters and artillery. 

It actually is a really good system for curbing lists into a somewhat realistic form, but unfortunately many of the "batteline unlock" factions can continue to use their elite units to fill their troop tax. 

I'm secretly hoping battleline unlocks go away, but given they are in Soulblight, I doubt they will. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I would have agreed with you before, but bringing down drops is now way easier for everyone. I think it's much less of a problem now that lowest drops goes first. I still hope they axe partial deployment of battalions though. One-drop should actually mean ONE drop.

EDIT: I say this because now going low-drops is just a decision you make, with the opportunity cost being that you miss out on command points from taking other battalions instead.

It looks like you can. I have not seen anything to the contrary.

Warlord is just the name of the battalion. It's a bad name, but it does not mean anything.

 

The stupid thing about it is the giving total control over who goes first, even before deployment. It sets up games into a fixed pattern from the very off, which is lame. One of the best things they did in 40k recently was to make who goes first entirely random, it makes games much more interesting when people can't deploy with knowledge of who is going first and second. 

It's especially damaging in AOS to have complete certainly over who gets the first turn because of its interaction with the double turn. A large part of what makes ranged armies so powerful is that you can virtually guarantee you'll go second (unless you have to go first because you'll lose a key piece otherwise, but then you have control over that too), and then have a 45% chance of just winning the game outright, because a top-tier ranged army has an overwhelming win rate in games where it gets the double from T1 to T2.  A significant proportion of AOS games effectively end on the roll-off for T2 because of this, and there's no world in which that is healthy. 

If you take away certainty over who gets the first turn, you reduce that percentage significantly because ranged armies have to deploy with the knowledge that they might have to take the first turn even if they don't want to. As long as drops give you total control, 1-drop ranged armies are going to continue to enjoy a baked-in advantage. 

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For anyone interested in Slaanesh in 3rd, I decided to write an overly long piece that goes into more detail than today's Warcomm article :P TL:DR I think Slaanesh will be very strong in 3rd

Spoiler

Okay, I've got the time to go through some changes. I think, at the moment we have a good idea of what's going on with AoS 3. Of course, there could be a huge difference when we get the full rules, but by the sound of it there have been no leaks that are very scary sounding. I'm going to go through the unconfirmed leaks too, but if they end up being false or not what we thought, then just discount them or glean what you can.

Command points

Command points are now not something that can be stored, but are now much easier to generate. The ways we currently know that are generic to all factions are getting 1 or 2 at the beginning of the round (whether you go first or second), an extra 1 here when the general is on the battlefield, they can also get 1 point from heroic inspiration either on a 4+ or a 2+ (easier when the general is alive). Finally, you can get a command point from the warlord battalion or the command entourage battalion. This means, in a single battle round, any army (going first) can get 6 (1 for the turn, 1 for the general, 2 for getting heroic inspiration off twice, and 2 for taking both battalions and gaining both points on the same turn). If we are realistic, heroic inspiration will only go off one out of two times (with the general alive), and we will only count one battalion because it's unlikely someone would burn both command points at once, if they even take two battalions at all. So realistically, an army is getting between 2 and 4 (based on whether they want to take the battalion and whether they want to spend their hero abilities on trying to get a command point).

On its own, looking outside of hosts, Slaanesh doesn't have much in the way of command point generation. But if we take a look at the invaders host, that all changes. The invaders host opens up three ways to get command points: rod of misrule, glory hog, and a general dying. Not only that, having three generals means we have three chances to not have our general die; in addition, if one general does die then we get the benefit of improved heroic inspiration as well as keeping the command point from having a general. Finally, Dexcessa gives a free command point effectively. The absolute maximum we can get in a battle round when going first is 14+2 free ( for the turn, 1 for the general, 2 for getting heroic inspiration off twice, and 2 for taking both battalions and gaining both points on the same turn, rod of misrule gives 3, glory hog procs both turns for 2, and all three generals die + Dexcessa's free point). We should not aim or expect this at all; this is totally unrealistic and probably means something has gone wrong if it happens. If we look at it realistically, in a turn with Dex where we are looking for command points (and remember, it will be a choice - we have control of how many we want to try to go for), we will probably get 7-8+free (1 for general, 1 for turn, 1 for rod of misrule, 2 for Glory Hog - enemies will be dying left and right, more on this later - 1 for the battalion, 1 for heroic inspiration, possibly one for a general death, and the free one from Dex). If we are not looking for command points (if we just don't seem to need them this turn), we should get 5+2 free.

This means that our turns where we are not going out of our way to get any extra command points, we gain pretty much as many command points as a normal army who is trying their hardest to get as many CP as possible. 

Please note, we really need to see when command points disappear. If they disappear right at the end of the battleround then glory hog is less important as it will proc at the end of the battle round and so not see much as much benefit. It is still a free cp for inspiring presence though, and it means if we see an enemy unit die we can go more all out on command abilities in that phase, knowing we'll have one spare for inspiring presence. 

Final opinion: Excellent in Invaders, Average in other hosts

New command abilities

Of course, we could get as many points as we want, but that won't matter if we can't use them on anything useful. 

The generic command abilities known/predicted are: All Out Attack, All out Defence, Inspiring Presence, At the Double, Forward to Victory, Unleash Hell, and Redeploy. I'll go through each of these.

It is important to note that, when we're getting 7 command abilities in invaders to use a battle round, we can pick and choose what we'd like here 

All out attack: This one is really nice for our troops, especially Twinsouls. A unit of 10 of them will output the following on average: 9.7 vs 2+, 19.4 vs 3+, 29 vs 4+, 38.8 vs a 5+, 48.5 vs a 6+, and 58 vs a -. Combined with the shardspeaker, we can get +1 to hit and +1 to wound - this means daemonettes having 2 attacks at 3/3/-1/1, and importantly can be summoned in and still benefit from these buffs. Great command ability, especially when concerning the blissbarb archers - a unit of 33 of them with 2 attacks each at 3/3/-1/1 in the shooting phase so it doesn't stop it in the combat phase? Yes please

All out defence: This one isn't quite as good for us, but that doesn't mean bad at all. It means we can get some nice defence against shooting units. With Dexcessa, we can act like they have a 3+ save in the combat phase unless we choose not to (or to give it to someone else). As mentioned in the article, painbringers on a 3+ rerolling save is very nice, and they can actually hit back unlike chaos warriors, but putting chaos warriors on a 3+ rerolling save isn't a bad idea at all. And of course Glutos will be a massive tank as always, with that -1 to hit adding to that annoyingness to budge.

Inspiring presence: In all honestly, this one has the chance to hurt us, but it hurts everyone. However we can't deny that our mortal units struggle with poor bravery values. However, on the other hand, we do have a few ways around bravery: Glutos's third battle round, Syll'Esske, Dexcessa, and Battle Rapture. Battle rapture is really good because it gives you knowledge before arriving at the battleshock phase, so you know what to save for. Syll'Esske can definitely benefit from the smaller board size too as they'll get more in their bubble, and we get a tonne of command points so we can always keep one spare. If we're honest, Dex's ability is a bit useless unless you're running very large blocks of daemonettes and don't want to risk the banner. Glutos takes more time to get going so isn't super reliable. 

At the double: this is fine... we have a few options to run and charge, but not that many to be honest. The one key use I can see it for is for Dex to give it to themselves for a lovely 18" flying move for a big flank

Forward to victory: As good as it ever was, though only being able to use it once does provide a niche use for scarlet cavalcade as it allows the more units to benefit. A nerf if we can only use it once, but not one I'm particularly worried about for reasons we'll go into later, as well as many of our units getting rerolling charge for free anyway

Unleash hell: there are only three units that really benefit from this for us - Synessa, Blissbarb Archers, and Blissbarb Seekers. Other than that, this one could really hurt us depending on the army. Us taking some big damage before we can even get into combat means we're going to have to be really careful about what we charge. On the other hand. if we have faith in Dexcessa, they can charge over a screen and put an end to the shooting unit so they stop doing it. It is very important to consider the Masque here as she keeps that lovely 6" pile in and so can tie up troublesome shooters. 

Redeploy: this is interesting, but I think we need to know a bit more before really giving a full idea on it. It increases a charge by d6" effectively; it hurts us, but we can get so close to most units that it shouldn't bother us too much. It could also be helpful, but besides trying to rescue a hero out of shooting LoS I think this could be pretty niche. 

Important to note is that, from all of our info we have, units can use their own command abilities on themselves so the penalty from invaders may not matter than much if the generals do end up getting too close, but try to avoid this. 

Overall, these command abilities are looking nice for us. They're not quite as good as a double pile in, but we won't always have a keeper and sometimes we need to kill something first pile in so an immediate +1 to hit is better. In addition, the +1 to save not being locked behind Lurid Haze is very nice as it gives us more options. I should note that these command abilities are good for pretty much everyone, except factions that have access to similar things already. However, in Invaders as we've discussed we can cherry pick the best command ability at every phase and use pretty much what we want, allowing us to be very adaptive.

Final opinion: Very good in Invaders, average in other hosts

Endless spells

While we currently cannot comment on the generic endless spells, we can look at our own. First things first, every faction who can use endless spells will benefit from this - more damage and more control is better, after all! However, we have two advantages that others do not: our allegiance ability directly benefits from all endless spells activate in the hero phase. While most other factions just get some extra damage, we now get depravity points from these endless spells where we often didn't before as it was not in a phase that they did damage, and we get double the chance to do damage. In addition to that, so long as it remains unchanged, we have the Wheels of Excruciation. This is major: let's say that an opponent has four units within 12" of each other (very likely to happen for reasons we'll go into later); we run across them, almost certainly do 1 damage at least, get to do this twice, for 8 depravity - also known as a unit of fiends for free. 

Final opinion: Very good

Coherency

Let's get this out of the way, fiends are hurt by this unless understrengthing a unit is better than previously. However, on the whole this benefits us in two major ways. Besides daemonettes and marauders, we rarely used any units at a large size, and both of these are on 25mm bases and so are less hurt by coherency because they can reach over ranks. Twinsouls are good because they have that 2" reach, allowing them to get 10 in easily while still remaining in coherency. 

Importantly we often lack in defence besides a few units, so large units not being able to attack before we get to attack them is very important. 

Final opinion: Good

Reinforcement points

Overall, I don't think these hurt us very much. We don't have some unit that we want spam and we can get around these restrictions through summoning. Also, we won't be hit as often by mega buffed large hordes, which always used to hurt us.

More importantly, like coherency, this pushes people towards MSU and we just love that. With endless spells and even chariots, we can share pain around a lot of units to get big depravity every turn. I reckon we can quite easily earn a KoS every turn without really trying for it

Final opinion: Very good

Hero abilities

These benefit everyone, but many armies don't have a good hero/monster option. For example, Tzeentch can heal their Lord of Change but that's pretty minor when they don't really have much of a combat role. A Bloodthirster can have a Their Finest Hour, but they only have a 10" move so can't always determine a charge (more on this later). Like before, we'll go through each hero ability. 

Heroic leadership: as mentioned, good in invaders where we can have a dead general and keep our current general. Mostly to be used if we calculate we need more command points - the filler ability. 

Heroic willpower: we're unlikely to need this, and tbh it's a bit of a nerf as we don't want to lose our endless spells and this makes it easier to do 

Their finest hour: you have to love this on any of hour fast heroes, probably best used on the KoS (who has dumped their artefact for a +1 if we have a spare, or just used a +1 to hit command ability) before it first turn charges the enemy lines, but also great on late game Dex and Sigvald when he gets himself in there. Very very nice for us 

Heroic recovery: we have very good healing already, but one of Glutos's main drawbacks is that you need a daemon to come along with him to give him a hand, which isn't always reliable. Now, if you will Glutos to survive he will do so. Healing 2d3 a battleround with a 3+ (or 2+ save), - 1 to hit him, and a 5+ ward? Yes please. Also helps keep Sigvald alive - with his 4+ ward save, each of his wounds is worth 2 effectively, so this means every healed wound is also worth 2. Also, our heroes all have high bravery so no need to worry there - Glutos is in range of himself

Overall, we can make good use of these and like command abilities they give us more options. Our battletome doesn't have many inbuilt choices, but that's now supplemented by these.

Overall opinion: Good

Monster abilities

Unlike some factions, all of our in book monsters are also heroes, so we gain double the benefit. Of the monsters we have access to, the Keeper and Dex are both reasonably priced and do good damage now we can buff them a lot. Archaon is an absolute tank and murder machine, but what's new. 

Roar: this will hurt us a lot, in all honesty, but we have the speed to try avoid or tie up monsters. We really like command abilities, so being able to be denied them is going to hurt (esp on the double pile in). That said, we can only be hit by this once per turn, so there's not a massive issue, and we can use it on others if we're worried about them using a command ability 

Stomp: Nice and basic. It helps up the damage of some of our monsters, and as has been mentioned before, Synessa can overwatch for D6 MWs and then stomp of D3 which can finish some units off outright. Also nice to drop a stomp on a unit that we won't attack to rack in depravity 

 Titanic Duel: probably hurts more than it helps we we usually have good to hit values compared to most monsters, and we can get +1 to hit through a few other ways. Our monsters also don't do well when slugged in the face, but at least our commonplace -1 to hit can help mitigate this

Smash to rubble: because of our speed, and especially Dexcessa, I think this is a really great utility tool for us as a way to take out a key piece of the opponent's army. Our fane can get got, but our fane is more like a 'decent little extra' rather than our game plan, so losing it isn't the end of the world.

Overall opinion: Above average (maybe good) 

Battleplans

We haven't seen all of them yet, but from the look of it these battleplans are pretty simple. They're hard to read, but I can tell that we are seeing 18" deployment gap which is fantastic for us. We can first turn charge very easily with most of our army, and many armies cannot. Armies with 10" max move still have an unreliable 8" charge, and their troops are often on 5" move. This means that they can't reach us first turn but we can reach them, meaning we have an advantage either way. 

Also, I can't see it on the battleplans I'm reading, but it looks like there are no bonus points for meta tags (battleline etc) so now our summoning units are just as effective as capturing the objectives as before. 

There is also a rumour than monsters and heroes will count for more models when taking an objective, which is generally good for us 

Overall opinion: Very good

Points increases

It is rumoured that all armies are going up about 10%. Whether this is good for us or not depends on whether we are going to get boosted, or if we already have been. Until then, we can't say

Overall opinion: Dependant, good or potentially very bad

Hit and wound capping

Probably overall bad. While we're not losing any buffs, we are losing some utility on debuffs - there's little reason to give look our sir to Synessa, or for Dex to care about the overwatch penalty as it's already inbuilt. The one benefit is that we don't have to worry about anyone buffing themselves sky high; also acquiescence gives rerolling 1s to hit, which seems to have become much rarer now  
 

Overall opinion: Bad

-------------------------------------------

Overall, I think AoS is much better for us compared to other armies when we used the Invaders host, and generally better for us when we use the other hosts. 

So long as people haven't let the turbulent reaction blind everyone to our potential, I think we have  a very high chance to reach high tournament placings, but also have more engaging gameplay with the new hero abilities, monster abilities and very importantly command points and abilities. We will remain as a finesse faction with no instant win button, but now we have options to buff our units considerably and depravity points have received a massive accidental buff that I think will lead to a very tool box faction where we can select a different buff and summon every phase, able to adapt to the enemy with ease. 

I hope this helps sum up the good and bad of the new changes :)  

 

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7 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Yeah but you need to get battleline somewhere, so unless you're playing an army with behemoth battleline, foot heroes with under 10 wounds, and not bringing any kind of chaff listbuilding kind of requires you to have that troop drop anyways. You can certainly play those kinds of lists in Seraphon, FEC, SBGL, and BCR, but I imagine it's rare to not have that extra troop, especially if you're bringing foot heroes too.

I think there is a difference between our understanding of how core battalions work. Here's how I see it:

  • Battalions no longer reduce drops except for Battle Regiment.
  • All other battalions give some kind of other bonus only.
  • Battalions don't cost points and you get as many as you can fit.
  • Battalions are (presumably) optional

So reducing drops is now a matter of how many of your models you put into the one-drop battalion.

Warlord gives you a command point and artefact like before, but it prevents 4 of your drops from being in that other battalion, so that makes your list 5 drop.

If you take command entourage instead and put the troop choice that would have been in Warlord into Battle Regiment, you save one drop at the cost of a command point or artefact.I

Going one drop means missing out on the basically free extra artefact and command point from Warlord, so that's a trade off worth considering.

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2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I would expect a mention of a point cost somewhere on the leaked battalion page if they were not free. I think odds are good that they don't cost any points.

Oh dear God.

Welp my army now has 2 vanguard for every list...

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7 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

 

So if we look to 40K, every unit in your army must be a in a detachment. So thats probably going to hold true for battalions. It helps to regulate, for better or worse, wacky or spammy army lists. 

In most cases a player would put the majority of their army in a Battle Regiment or Vanguard, and then add additional supplemental units in one of the other more specialized battallions. Its essentially putting a  "leader" tax on spamming monsters and artillery. 

It actually is a really good system for curbing lists into a somewhat realistic form, but unfortunately many of the "batteline unlock" factions can continue to use their elite units to fill their troop tax. 

I'm secretly hoping battleline unlocks go away, but given they are in Soulblight, I doubt they will. 

 

 

Personally I hate 40k style detachments. It makes listbuilding way more complex and restrictive than it has any right to be and pushes out fun lists by forcing all listbuilding onto rails. Sure it can force lists to look more like some people's interpretation of what an army should look like, but it does that by banning and punishing people for Not Building the kinds of lists 'we' approve of. The mortal realms is a lot more free-form and fantastic than fantasy was, and even more so than 40k is since many armies don't have as rigid a structure. An army of entirely squigs, or Gore-gruntas is not only possible to play with, but also could reasonably exist in the mortal realms.

 

3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think there is a difference between our understanding of how core battalions work. Here's how I see it:

  • Battalions no longer reduce drops except for Battle Regiment.
  • All other battalions give some kind of other bonus only.
  • Battalions don't cost points and you get as many as you can fit.
  • Battalions are (presumably) optional

So reducing drops is now a matter of how many of your models you put into the one-drop battalion.

Warlord gives you a command point and artefact like before, but it prevents 4 of your drops from being in that other battalion, so that makes your list 5 drop.

If you take command entourage instead and put the troop choice that would have been in Warlord into Battle Regiment, you save one drop at the cost of a command point or artefact.I

Going one drop means missing out on the basically free extra artefact and command point from Warlord, so that's a trade off worth considering.

Yeah if we're considering combinations of two battalions it makes sense since you could go into a 4 drop list, but that's a scenario where we're still trying to focus on minimizing drops as much as possible because it theoretically matters which it might not since the armies going first will probably just take single or double battle regiments. It depends on whether 4 drops is something worth aiming for in the new system. The only armies not going all-in on battle regiments will probably be ones that have mandatory artifacts (like spiderfang) or a non-standard unit composition who can't run it effectively (like SoB and BCR)

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