Enoby Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) Also, maybe it'll be part of the core rules, but these new commands seem really strong and yet don't specify unit type that can use them. What I mean by this is that you don't need a hero to use them, just use them from the unit leader. Of course, maybe unit leaders will be limited in what they can use, but what's the point of heroes having varying command ranges if this isn't the case. Edit: unless that's what "that unit must receive the command" means Edited June 8, 2021 by Enoby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeblasky Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Oh, Unleash hell is basically a longer range and slightly weaker overwatch. Which can be shot with full power (not losing extra attacks or other bonuses) if it's a screen that get charged, and not a shooting unit itself. AND you can do it multiple times if you have enough CPs. Wow this is such a strong buff to any shooting, you just can't charge in. Yea, even for me, this is too much across the board. Now, big brains time, does it stacks with usual charge overwatch, that units like Handgunners and Sisters of the Watch have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, Zeblasky said: Now, big brains time, does it stacks with usual charge overwatch, that units like Handgunners and Sisters of the Watch have? It should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 So the Zombie pile-in shenanigans exist to block archers I suspect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I’ve been excited for 3.0 until now, but this: Is the dumbest thing. Think of all of those horrendous shooting units. Sentinels. Salamanders. Skinks. Mortek Crawlers. Medusai. Flamers. Now picture them all sat 7” behind a screen and laughing as you give them a free shooting action in the charge phase. Why even bother charging when you could just take cheap screens and your own OP shooting unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said: Let's put this in context though - other command abilities are getting much more powerful, and command points won't stack through turns. With all the options to use CP on (including other charge reactions) there are real decisions that have to be made by both players in both turns, which is great. The buffs to shooting in general are nuts but this one is insane, it's stronger than 40k overwatch. Skinks can throw out 160 shots in your charge phase, and maybe run away. you can use an arkanaut company to screen out an ironclad, and shoot the thing charging the arkanauts with the ironclad. you can have a screen 7 inches in front of a shooting unit, and shoot the thing charging the screen with a unit behind it. Like how do you even engage a Tzeentch castle now? if you charge the horrors you get melted by the flamers. you can put a max size unit of lumineth archers behind some windchargers and melt anything that charges you. The fact that units that aren't being charged can do this, and that the distances are measured after the charge move is MASSIVE. Sure some armies may get more out of +1 to saves, but this CA lets you obliterate units that charge your screens if you have a good shooting unit. Plus if bonuses to hit/wound/save are going to be capped like they are in 40k a lot of anti-shooting abilities won't help against this, because they're already getting a -1. If there's a command ability stronger than this we're about to see 40k level power creep, plus 3E seems to be giving out a lot more CP in general. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 18 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said: We're already at "the sky is falling" part of the new edition/army release and its still weeks away! Warhammer new edition disappointment speedrun any% WR 12 minutes ago, Enoby said: That seems very strong. I'll reserve judgement until seeing the warscrolls and other rules, but as this works on missile weapons too, I'm afraid that AoS 3 may take an even harder steer into a ranged meta In the launch box, there are only three Kruleboyz crossbow guys. So it looks like their shooting is elite, at least. The most recent crossbow profile we have seen is 1 attack (two if standing still), 3+/3+/-1/2. If Kruleboyz are similar, it will probably be fine. 8 minutes ago, Enoby said: Also, maybe it'll be part of the core rules, but these new commands seem really strong and yet don't specify unit type that can use them. What I mean by this is that you don't need a hero to use them, just use them from the unit leader. Of course, maybe unit leaders will be limited in what they can use, but what's the point of heroes having varying command ranges if this isn't the case. Edit: unless that's what "that unit must receive the command" means I think "issue/receive a command" is the new generic language for command abilities: This text seems to imply that champions issue commands and their units receive them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Keep in mind: You can‘t use this with the unit that is being charged. It‘s more of a supportive fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, JackStreicher said: Keep in mind: You can‘t use this with the unit that is being charged. It‘s more of a supportive fire. you can, the unit must be within 9" and more than 3" away from all other enemy units. Its pretty funny they made this the rule when they had to specifically change the fangs of Sotek rule to only work when that specific unit got charged. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutrotSpume Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, Lengthster said: Interesting that the Killaboss only has 5" move, I figured the Kruleboys would be faster. Also Chronomantic Cogs changes are interesting. Instead of the +2 move and charge board-wide, it's only +1 charge but within 18". My knee-****** reaction is that it's a nerf. Being able to be selective might be good, but you have to put it closer now and the enemy can always try to control it etc. +1 charge is atleast 3 less than +2 move and charge, I don't know if the smaller board size is that drastic. You thought they’d be faster? Have you seen their baby legs! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: Keep in mind: You can‘t use this with the unit that is being charged. It‘s more of a supportive fire. you... can? you must be 3" away from "other" enemy units, the one charging doesn't count 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Ganigumo said: you can, the unit must be within 9" and more than 3" away from all other enemy units. Its pretty funny they made this the rule when they had to specifically change the fangs of Sotek rule to only work when that specific unit got charged. You are right. Fun times ahead. Unless charging grants a significant buff to the unit I don‘t see how melee will be worthwhile 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Is there anything stopping you from using Unleash Hell multiple times per phase? 😈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, PJetski said: Is there anything stopping you from using Unleash Hell multiple times per phase? 😈 At the current level of Information: no you trigger it once with the champion and then as many times as you want with the heroes and totems nearby. That is if there’s no core rule stopping you from doing so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, PJetski said: Is there anything stopping you from using Unleash Hell multiple times per phase? 😈 my bet would be: each command ability can only be used once per turn / phase 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, PJetski said: Is there anything stopping you from using Unleash Hell multiple times per phase? 😈 Just now, JackStreicher said: At the current level of Information: no you trigger it once with the champion and then as many times as you want with the heroes and totems nearby. That is if there’s no core rule stopping you from doing so There's probably a rule that a unit can only be effected by one command per phase (or the same command only once per phase). If you had multiple shooting units you probably can use it multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 11 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: This text seems to imply that champions issue commands and their units receive them This would be a shame. I mean, it's nice to have buffs, but really what is the point of giving generals or totems increased ranges if units can just used command abilities on themselves anyway? It seems to reduce tactics if you don't need to carefully position a hero, or maybe take a hero with a specific keyword, to use these powerful abilities and instead can just use them from the unit itself. It seems like a downgrade in tactical play, personally. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, Ganigumo said: There's probably a rule that a unit can only be effected by one command per phase (or the same command only once per phase). If you had multiple shooting units you probably can use it multiple times. The comment about inspiring presence seems to indicate this: On the flip side, you really need to think about Battleshock now, as only one unit can benefit from the Inspiring Presence command ability. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 That sounds like a great way to ensure that every list is centred around 2-3 of max sized most powerful shooting units, surrounded by the cheapest screens, playing ranged tag with identically constructed lists at max range. It sounds awful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Yeah I'm not a fan of being able to use "Unleash Hell" without the ranged unit actually being charged. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said: That sounds like a great way to ensure that every list is centred around 2-3 of max sized most powerful shooting units, surrounded by the cheapest screens, playing ranged tag with identically constructed lists at max range. It sounds awful. Maybe there will be significantly more terrain and the battleplans will make this castle formation less viable? I'm really reaching here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukishiro1 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) Whether or not the uber overwatch ends up being the disaster in the game itself that it initially looks like, it's a disaster from a PR point of view to release stuff like this without any reassurances that they understand that people have been frustrated for years now with how dominated by ranged attacks AOS is right now, and that although this certainly looks like it'll make it even worse, actually it won't because <reasons>. GW is so, so bad at acknowledging player concerns this way, which is a large part of why people are so distrusting of them. From reading GW's advertising copy for 3.0, you would think that the big problems with 2.0 were that shooting and magic weren't powerful enough, and that there were too few MWs floating around. Edited June 8, 2021 by yukishiro1 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, Scurvydog said: The comment about inspiring presence seems to indicate this: On the flip side, you really need to think about Battleshock now, as only one unit can benefit from the Inspiring Presence command ability. This is a big one that I had missed when I read the article originally. If all command abilites are limited to one use per ability like spells, that changes a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 All ranged units need a 150% point increase then this will all make more sense, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said: Whether or not the uber overwatch ends up being the disaster in the game itself that it initially looks like, it's a disaster from a PR point of view to release stuff like this without any reassurances that they understand that people have been frustrated for years now with how dominated by ranged attacks AOS is right now, and that although this certainly looks like it'll make it even worse, actually it won't because <reasons>. GW is so, so bad at acknowledging player concerns this way, which is a large part of why people are so distrusting of them. From reading GW's advertising copy for 3.0, you would never know that the biggest complaint about late-stage 2.0 is the dominance of ranged attacks. Yeah the drip feed is atrocious at this point, it's killing any and all excitement I had for the new edition and making me start contemplating what other games I could be playing instead. At this point GW should just release (or at the very least 'leak') a rules pdf and give people a couple weeks to dig through full rules before the new edition comes out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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