AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[C0deb1ue]

4 minutes ago, novakai said:

not going by their Livestream and their articles, it just that happen to be in one book

i would subfaction in games terms are like Ironsunz, Bonegrinz, and other sub alleigiance.

Warclanz is a unique in that it gives three different army alleigances that only certain units can be use so it is for design purposes three armies in one book with a soup option

Edit: Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz where seperate armies too at one point i still do wish they remain seperate

 

Orruk warclans is the faction, any dividers below are sub-factions. But I guess you can think of it any way you like. If they were different factions they would have different battletomes. It doesn't really matter as long as they have good rules.

[Beliman]

In all other armies, you have two layers of rules: 1 keyword (Faction) with their basic rules for the whole army and another keyword that you can attach (subfaction) to gain another set of rules.

Orruk Warclans have 4 faction keywords (with their unique rules) : Bonnersplittez, KruleBoyz, Ironjawz and Big Waagh, and I think that they are the only ones that have an exclusive roster of miniatures for each of this keyword (SCE have two Allegiance Abilities but share the same roster). That means that they are a bit diferent from other battletomes (btw, I'm not saying that they need cavalry, I'm just saying that they don't follow exactly the same rules as other "factions-subfactions").

Maybe this is a sneak peak for new battletomes to come. Imho, it could be good for the game, look at gloomspite or skavens, they already use 3 layers of keywords (with minor rules), they just need their full allegiance abilities.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Beliman

[P.T.Bahnum]

9 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

Here's the thing; Orruks already have regular cavalry; boarboyz and morboyz. And monstrous cavalry; gore-gruntas. No, they aren't Kruleboyz but that's the point; not everyone gets everything.

Except SCE. They are the poster boys, they get everything.

I this is a fair point and would normally agree with this completely but I have a few arguments I would like to politely put forward before I go to work. Firstly while sce are the regular poster boys I would argue the strong focus in both games on orks this year would lead me to guess that we will not only receive a reveal but I'm going to place a bet on 2 units being revealed. Secondly while I agree that having a unit in another subtraction that can be used has stopped some armies it does not mean it won't happen. I'm not saying we will get cavalry but I wouldn't be surprised due to how easy it would've been for gw to just have an aos cavalry unit worked on while they did the beastboyz in 40k. And thirdly the argument many people have that we won't receive more just because they didn't say check back next week for more holds no grounds cause the dragons spoiler didn't mention anything about a next week reveal. I hold that logically there has been mirrored reveals because gw wants to start a new edition with 2 standing armies getting massive updates.not a single army getting a massive one. These will be the first battle times and as such I expect a very large release to bolster sales and excitement into the new edition. I don't believe that just cause sce is a poster boy means anything because we are in the era of the beast for a reason. More is to come and I stand by my statement judging not on wishful thinking but evidence provided.

[NinthMusketeer]

8 hours ago, C0deb1ue said:

Reduces the point in having subfactions if you are forced to play big waagh to get a normal spread of unit types. Some flying cavalry would provide a good niche to add to Kruleboyz and not encroach on the others.

The point of having sub-factions is to give up the diversity of a larger roster in exchange for stronger allegiance benefits for the sub segment you have. In that regard, missing out on unit roles is entirely the point of sub-factions. When I make a specialized army, I don't want it to have diverse roles. I want to have the challenge of making the narrow scope of what I have work, with extra allegiance benefits as a tool to level the field.

But bringing things back to Kruleboyz, flying cavalry are not what they need and it doesn't fit their theme. What they need is high-offense ambush infantry with a deep strike mechanic and some sort of bonus based around retreats. That's the hole in the roster both mechanically and narratively.

But if Kruleboyz get grumpy chicken vulture cavalry I will still be super happy because rule of cool trumps all.

@PTB I don't think we've seen the whole Kruleboyz roster yet. I'm not even certain it won't be cavalry. I just think assuming cavalry right now is a bit premature.

Edited August 3, 2021 by NinthMusketeer

[C0deb1ue]

7 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

 

But bringing things back to Kruleboyz, flying cavalry are not what they need and it doesn't fit their theme. What they need is high-offense ambush infantry with a deep strike mechanic and some sort of bonus based around retreats. That's the hole in the roster both mechanically and narratively.

But if Kruleboyz get grumpy chicken vulture cavalry I will still be super happy because rule of cool trumps all.

Any of those mechanics can be given to any unit in the battletome as we havn't seen the rules yet. I dont think it would require a special model. There are a bunch of vultures in the fiction with the mouth of Mork so it would fit the theme as its already been described but who knows.

[Acrozatarim]

Listing by most to least likely, my guess as to the probability of any remaining Kruleboy/Warclan reveals is roughly:

1) Warclan endless spells.

2) Kruleboy cavalry.

3) Faction terrain.

4) Any other Kruleboy units.

[P.T.Bahnum]

28 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

The point of having sub-factions is to give up the diversity of a larger roster in exchange for stronger allegiance benefits for the sub segment you have. In that regard, missing out on unit roles is entirely the point of sub-factions. When I make a specialized army, I don't want it to have diverse roles. I want to have the challenge of making the narrow scope of what I have work, with extra allegiance benefits as a tool to level the field.

But bringing things back to Kruleboyz, flying cavalry are not what they need and it doesn't fit their theme. What they need is high-offense ambush infantry with a deep strike mechanic and some sort of bonus based around retreats. That's the hole in the roster both mechanically and narratively.

But if Kruleboyz get grumpy chicken vulture cavalry I will still be super happy because rule of cool trumps all.

@PTB I don't think we've seen the whole Kruleboyz roster yet. I'm not even certain it won't be cavalry. I just think assuming cavalry right now is a bit premature.

I completely agree with that! I have my wants but if I'm honest the main thing I wanted was another infantry and a foot hero better then kb with stab.

[P.T.Bahnum]

18 minutes ago, C0deb1ue said:

Any of those mechanics can be given to any unit in the battletome as we havn't seen the rules yet. I dont think it would require a special model. There are a bunch of vultures in the fiction with the mouth of Mork so it would fit the theme as its already been described but who knows.

Sadly to rain on this parade I don't think it'll be vulture cavalry if we get that. I feel they tried to push the vultures to a status symbol. I'm at work so I'll check further later but I'm pretty sure the group the ogor saw was stated as bosses on a tower. Maybe I'm wrong but I think we will be heavily limited to our 2 heroes for flying.

[Vasshpit]

Speaking of rules we haven't seen yet with regards to the sludgeraker, it has all those cages, perhaps it'll have rules like the gargant and dankholds where by you'll be able to delete a single model via capturing and caging...

Pretty cool I think. 

[Acrozatarim]

Yeah, the Sludgeraker generic build is a Snatchaboss, and the Sloggoth has the grots with all those nets and mancatchers, so presumably the two of them will have some sort of debuffs or model-sniping capabilities.

[novakai]

2 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Speaking of rules we haven't seen yet with regards to the sludgeraker, it has all those cages, perhaps it'll have rules like the gargant and dankholds where by you'll be able to delete a single model via capturing and caging...

Pretty cool I think. 

i believe they said the Sloggoth has that rule (along with an combat aura buff because of the Drum Grot)

i know they said the Sludgeraker has a stronger poison attack and also buff poison of nearby Kruleboyz unit

[Maogrim]

3 minutes ago, novakai said:

i believe they said the Sloggoth has that rule (along with an combat aura buff because of the Drum Grot)

i know they said the Sludgeraker has a stronger poison attack and also buff poison of nearby Kruleboyz unit

But probably only on hits against an enemy unit which was charged by the sludgeraker while also being in 3' inch radius of a friendly Kruleboyz Orruk unit that has moved at least 4' towards said enemy unit and has declared its 'Mean n' Green Krule Poison Machine' special action instead of declaring attacks, runs or charges. 

[novakai]

25 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

But probably only on hits against an enemy unit which was charged by the sludgeraker while also being in 3' inch radius of a friendly Kruleboyz Orruk unit that has moved at least 4' towards said enemy unit and has declared its 'Mean n' Green Krule Poison Machine' special action instead of declaring attacks, runs or charges. 

only in your Bin guy imagination that for sure

[Maogrim]

5 hours ago, novakai said:

only in your Bin guy imagination that for sure

I'm sorry. Just.. a few things about Kruleboyz have left me a little bitter. I hope that once we have a more complete picture of the faction things will start to make more sense and we'll all merrily stalk the swamps.

[NinthMusketeer]

Well if we go by precedent it will be an extremely reliable effect; so much the Swampcalla Shaman's potency is that his ability is guaranteed if the conditions are met. There is no roll to see if it activates, there is no means by which the enemy can stop it. It just goes. And as any experienced tourney player can tell you; consistency trumps potential.

Sidenote; C'mon, unit wholly within 12", at least one model within 3", and not in combat. For an ability you want to use on ranged troops anyways. Those aren't difficult hoops to jump through. There are a lot of savvy players out there extremely happy it is that instead of a spell which can fail, be unbound, etc.

Side-sidenote; Kruleboyz are already stacking a really powerful allegiance ability on top of a full set of army allegiance abilities. I feel like that just must not be clicking for some people. The allegiance abilities Orruks have already been rolling with PLUS the best ability out of the Lumineth battletome.

This is not going to be a weak army.

Edited August 4, 2021 by NinthMusketeer

[mrteige]

8 hours ago, Maogrim said:

But probably only on hits against an enemy unit which was charged by the sludgeraker while also being in 3' inch radius of a friendly Kruleboyz Orruk unit that has moved at least 4' towards said enemy unit and has declared its 'Mean n' Green Krule Poison Machine' special action instead of declaring attacks, runs or charges. 

Wait... Are YOU the Bin Guy.?!?

[C0deb1ue]

5 hours ago, Maogrim said:

I'm sorry. Just.. a few things about Kruleboyz have left me a little bitter. I hope that once we have a more complete picture of the faction things will start to make more sense and we'll all merrily stalk the swamps.

They have the MWs on 6s which is pretty excellent. But so far that's kind of it for decent rules.

The rest is 70% -1 to hit abilities with those awful wordy/picky rules. It doesn't stack and really isn't that exciting.

It's unlikely that they will be trash but awful rule previews don't help.

Also quite confusing to be told they are a horde army and then see all the troops are really expensive.

For myself, it would have helped if they hadn't messed up Kragnos as I worry if that's the design teams output for our god model and have lost a good amount of faith in what might be coming for destruction ruleswise.

Hoping to be proven wrong but the mortals rule isn't enough to make an army good.

Edited August 4, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[Beliman]

I think we are in need of more rules.

Unpopular opinion: I prefer abilities that can reduce hit or movement than abilties with MW to hit, even if they are less strong.

So, to make a recap, kruleboyz have:

1. Layer 1: Mw on 6+ for Kruleboyz Orruks (RIP Hobgrots).
2. Layer 2: Chose (or not) Dirty Tactics. Ex.: -1 to be wounded in the first round.
3. Layer 3: Subfactions. Ex.: -1 to be hit in melee on a roll of 6+ (4+if it's a monster).

I hope that layer 1&2 are a bit more extended than that. Or at least, with some utility abilities like ambush, bravery shenanigans (even if they are not aimed to battleshock phase), terrain tricks (swamps and all this stuff), etc...

Btw, I can't wait to read more things about Kruleboyz monsters!!! This wait is killing me!!!

Edited August 4, 2021 by Beliman

[Ellarr]

-1 to wound isnt it on the previewed dirty tactic?

[C0deb1ue]

1 hour ago, Ellarr said:

-1 to wound isnt it on the previewed dirty tactic?

Yeah so that is better than hit but it's far less useful when you are forced to use it first battleround.

Edited August 4, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[novakai]

-1 wound for first round is good against standard non MW shooting armies now that it easy to get +1 hit for them but not many ways to get +1 to wound.

both Mawtribes and Ironjawz had a -1 to hit in the first round ability and people took those to defend them self against shooting as well.

[C0deb1ue]

35 minutes ago, novakai said:

-1 wound for first round is good against standard non MW shooting armies now that it easy to get +1 hit for them but not many ways to get +1 to wound.

both Mawtribes and Ironjawz had a -1 to hit in the first round ability and people took those to defend them self against shooting as well.

Might do a bit if they have lots of non MW shooting or are an alpha army. Even then, not a lot always happens first round.

[novakai]

4 minutes ago, C0deb1ue said:

Might do a bit if they have lots of non MW shooting or are an alpha army. Even then, not a lot always happens first round.

KO, CoS, SCE, Seraphon, and Tzeentch (edit: ok the last two use a lot of magic MW but some of their shooting is a bit more standard), Alpha strike can be done by a lot of armies.

a lot of stuff happens first round now that Board are smaller and you have to achieve a battle tactic first round or risk being down on points

Edited August 4, 2021 by novakai

[Blood0Tiger]

If any of you are interested, I've made my personal project public for anyone to view and give feedback they may have. Questions, critique, and collaboration are welcome. 

 

[papary]

I need to stop ordering bolt boyz off eBay. I’m up to 12 now.

 

do we know in terms of the multi part box what options we get? Is it simply banners and musicians?