AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[Jabbuk]

1 minute ago, P.T.Bahnum said:

i think they are fantastic for bw and ive been looking at them, boltboyz, and strangely kb on vulcha as great bw pieces.

The problem with KB on vulcha is that only buy this model once and I have to pick how to build it I love both of em.

[P.T.Bahnum]

3 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

The problem with KB on vulcha is that only buy this model once and I have to pick how to build it I love both of em.

im just thinking stupid combos with gordrakk so gordrakk can give a command to ANY 3 friendly units within the 18"(he counts as your general) and kb on vulcha can give the same one. with proper set up you can unleash hell 4 times for 2 cp in same phase. seems dumb and fun but maybe not the best.

[Arzalyn]

4 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Consider a big yellers list (really isn't a reason to play the other two unless you're running 0 boltboyz or ballistas) with:

2x sludgerakers

2x shamans

2x6 boltboyz

1x10 gutrippas

2x ballista

3x10 hobgrots

This list would have 2 centers of power around the sludgerakers, while being able to project power through the ballistas and boltboyz. Gutrippaz and hobgrots just serve as screens and objective holders.

By what I have seen so far around many groups this is probably our best list for competitive play (at least from a theoretical point of view). I have seen some variations with 10 more guttripaz or 3 more boltboyz at the cost of the Hobgrots, but a good amount of them seen the correct thing to do if you are focusing in our ranged output.

4 hours ago, Acrozatarim said:

I really feel like they need a ward save, which makes me really leery of taking Skumdrekk over a generic Snatchaboss.

I can see a place for Skumdrekk if you already have a Sludgeraker in your list and want to use one of them it more aggressively, but outside of that its hard to give up the extra protection from the amulet/egomaniak for some extra damage on the profile and some fluff (bets and a little easier to sac a model).

2 hours ago, spenson said:

The games were fun, my opponent is a cool person but damn that's such a tough match up in a tournament setting. One of my biggest gripe with the shooting elements of the army is that you have no way of extending your threat range. If your opponent starts the turn 27.1" away from you, you have no way to shoot them (if we exclude the teleport command trait).

The army is also made of papier-mâché and crumbles almost too easily.

The RNG wasn't with me today but it wouldn't have really affected the end result of any of the games.

As @Malakree said you faced one of the strongest lists around. I have my doubts if we have whats its necessary to take something like Archaon or the other big gods. How did the Killbow performed in your opinion? We were discussing some days ago if taking just one would be enough or if two is the necessary number for them, so having some actual experience would be interesting for the discussion.

1 hour ago, AlmGandix3 said:

Maybe the murknob is really the way to go for anti magic. 5+ isn't much but I remember how much it saved my Dispossessed back in the day when they had the banner.

Maybe it is, but it fells so unreliable to invest the point on the Murknob even for this. He is just a little less than a Shaman or a Killaboss that do what you expect them to do, which make using points for he him really sour when he fails his only job...

[Malakree]

23 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

Maybe it is, but it fells so unreliable to invest the point on the Murknob even for this. He is just a little less than a Shaman or a Killaboss that do what you expect them to do, which make using points for he him really sour when he fails his only job...

This might be a bit of a weird question. How is he that much different from a killaboss with stabgrot.

He swaps the battleshock immunity for spell protection and the stance of damage for the precombat mortal puke. From a melee damage perspective he's 3 attacks instead of 4. The biggest loss is the 3+ save but I can't help feeling for the killaboss battleshock prot I'd take the turkey over the foot one anyway.

I can see the shaman vs murknob argument but even then in the magic heavy meta atm it feels like the 5+ weird un buff is pretty strong.

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, idn0971 said:

It's +1 damage to one ironjawz not +1 to hit. I wouldn't run any ironjawz without playing at least one and if you are playing pure ironjawz I'd play at least 2.

Wait what? I think you're mistaking Marshcrawlers with the Warchanters. Warchanters have an ability to give +1 damage to an IJ unit. The Marshcrawlers have a +1 to hit aura around 18inches.

[spenson]

9 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

As @Malakree said you faced one of the strongest lists around. I have my doubts if we have whats its necessary to take something like Archaon or the other big gods. How did the Killbow performed in your opinion? We were discussing some days ago if taking just one would be enough or if two is the necessary number for them, so having some actual experience would be interesting for the discussion.

Maybe it is, but it fells so unreliable to invest the point on the Murknob even for this. He is just a little less than a Shaman or a Killaboss that do what you expect them to do, which make using points for he him really sour when he fails his only job...

To be honest the only thing the killbow did was to make my opponent use a destiny die every time I managed to wound Archaon. I think it's ok and I took only one because I couldn't put more in a battle regiment.

I agree that this Tzeentch list was strong but it's seen very often in the meta. We're currently participating in quite a few tournaments and we try to improve as a team. If you can't at least handle some of the most frequent armies (Archaon Tzeentch, DoK, Lumineth and the Sons of Behemat) then your army may not be suited for tournaments.

Edited September 20, 2021 by spenson

[Zappgrot]

10 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

By what I have seen so far around many groups this is probably our best list for competitive play (at least from a theoretical point of view). I have seen some variations with 10 more guttripaz or 3 more boltboyz at the cost of the Hobgrots, but a good amount of them seen the correct thing to do if you are focusing in our ranged output.

 

I think the problem i have whit kruelboys form a competative sense. Is this. If this is the best thoretical list. Then kruelboys seem pointless. Since you could have a same type of army but way better by plating LRL.  I know they ar filthy elves and all. But if one looks at it purely from a copetative point of view. There is little point to the lads ;( 

[Jabbuk]

2 hours ago, Zappgrot said:

I think the problem i have whit kruelboys form a competative sense. Is this. If this is the best thoretical list. Then kruelboys seem pointless. Since you could have a same type of army but way better by plating LRL.  I know they ar filthy elves and all. But if one looks at it purely from a copetative point of view. There is little point to the lads ;( 

But isn't this the case with many armies though? I mean it's not an identical army to LRL at all, and several other armies have similar game mechanics or builds. Kruleboyz also have additional sneaky shenanigans that can disrupt gameplans. 

Overall, I think it's very early to declare anything. Besides, let's not kid ourselves either, this is a destruction army. Destruction armies are never top meta. As long as we sit well in the fat middle I think GW did their job. The problem is with the filthy elves...

Edited September 20, 2021 by Jabbuk

[Malakree]

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Grinnin' Blades
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Killaboss on Corpse-Rippa Vulcha (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Supa Sneaky
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)

Battleline
30 x Gutrippaz (540)
- Reinforced x 2
20 x Gutrippaz (360)
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Gutrippaz (360)
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 191
Drops: 1

Why not something more like this. Focus on putting hard to shift wounds on the board with lots of infantry. It all goes in a battle regiment as well which means you're a 1 drop. Hobgrots for screening. Gutrippaz go on objectives and the beast-skewer is your answer for those pita things.

The Supa Sneaky and Grinnin' Blades also combos really well for dumpstering the opponents hero phase if they are magic heavy.

[Acrozatarim]

We do need to avoid falling into grass-is-greener thinking already, yeah. It would be a surprise if the first attempts at Kruleboy lists didn't struggle with what is one of the top army lists in the game right now.

Even then, I don't think it's impossible to tackle. Kruleboyz can throw an absurd output of Mortal Wounds, more than Lumineth can manage (with the caveat that Lumineth have more ability to project those Mortal Wounds with precision). The real trick is getting those Mortal Wounds into a priority target at the same time.

Edit: Removed Sludgeraker comment because I misread the damage calculations!

Edited September 20, 2021 by Acrozatarim

[Jabbuk]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

 

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Grinnin' Blades
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Killaboss on Corpse-Rippa Vulcha (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Supa Sneaky
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)

Battleline
30 x Gutrippaz (540)
- Reinforced x 2
20 x Gutrippaz (360)
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Gutrippaz (360)
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 191
Drops: 1

Why not something more like this. Focus on putting hard to shift wounds on the board with lots of infantry. It all goes in a battle regiment as well which means you're a 1 drop. Hobgrots for screening. Gutrippaz go on objectives and the beast-skewer is your answer for those pita things.

The Supa Sneaky and Grinnin' Blades also combos really well for dumpstering the opponents hero phase if they are magic heavy.

That's a lot of Gutrippaz to paint, my friend

[Zappgrot]

2 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

But isn't this the case with many armies though? I mean it's not an identical army to LRL at all, and several other armies have similar game mechanics or builds. Kruleboyz also have additional sneaky shenanigans that can disrupt gameplans. 

Overall, I think it's very early to declare anything. Besides, let's not kid ourselves either, this is a destruction army. Destruction armies are never top meta. As long as we sit well in the fat middle I think GW did their job. The problem is with the filthy elves...

Well appart from giants who are top meta.   My point is not so much about kruelboys beeing good or not. But that it feels like a fail on design space. If they wanted to make cruel boys sneaky. They should have made them proppa sneaky not just slap on a 6 to hit is a mortal wound and a single pre battle ability.  Getting acces to more telleport or more redeploy tricks would have been nice. 

[Garxia]

I'm not sure if Krules are competitive or not, but I'm a main Nighthaunt, so they can't be worse 😆

This is the list I'm thinking about:

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Mortal Realm: Ulgu
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Killaboss with Stab-grot (110)*
- General
Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)**
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*

Battleline
20 x Gutrippaz (360)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)**
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)*
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)**

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
Drops: 2
 

Some highlights:

- 2 drops and Big Yellerz! Dakka dakka

- Suicide Breaka Boss (Suppa Sneaky + Fast'un) to turn 1 charge and act as a distraction carnifex/kill some things/being annoying

- Blob 1 with Gutrippas with Sludgeraker + Shaman + Killaboss + 6 Boltboyz + Killbow

- Blob 2 with 6 boltboyz + Shaman + Hobgrots screen + Killbow

The basic idea is to pin their army wih the breakaboss for 1 turn (2 if lucky) while my ranged pelts their army. If they come to me, Gutrippaz + Snatchaboss + Killaboss would Waaagh! 

Do you think this will work? I'm open to suggestions.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Garxia

[Malakree]

50 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

That's a lot of Gutrippaz to paint, my friend

I mean...I actually kinda like the models 

[zombiepiratexxx]

29 minutes ago, Garxia said:

I'm not sure if Krules are competitive or not, but I'm a main Nighthaunt, so they can't be worse 

This is the list I'm thinking about:

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Mortal Realm: Ulgu
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Killaboss with Stab-grot (110)*
- General
- Command Trait: Supa Sneaky
Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)**
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex

Battleline
20 x Gutrippaz (360)*
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)**
- Reinforced x 1

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)*
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)**

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
Drops: 2
 

Some highlights:

- 2 drops!

- Suicide Breaka Boss (Suppa Sneaky + Fast'un) to turn 1 charge and act as a distraction carnifex/kill some things/being annoying

- Blob 1 with Gutrippas with Sludgeraker + Shaman + Killaboss + 6 Boltboyz + Killbow

- Blob 2 with 6 boltboyz + Shaman + Hobgrots screen + Killbow

The basic idea is to pin their army wih the breakaboss for 1 turn (2 if lucky) while my ranged pelts their army. If they come to me, Gutrippaz + Snatchaboss + Killaboss would Waaagh! 

Do you think this will work? I'm open to suggestions.

 

 

Presumably Big Yellers for the BB battleline? I'll admit that I've looked at a lit very similar to this and don't think it's too bad. 

[Ganigumo]

57 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

Well appart from giants who are top meta.   My point is not so much about kruelboys beeing good or not. But that it feels like a fail on design space. If they wanted to make cruel boys sneaky. They should have made them proppa sneaky not just slap on a 6 to hit is a mortal wound and a single pre battle ability.  Getting acces to more telleport or more redeploy tricks would have been nice. 

When I saw that gutrippa shields don't work in combat, and you can't poison things in combat I figured we'd get access to some form of bonus retreat (or retreat and charge). A command ability to have a unit retreat at the end of combat would've gone a LONG way in this book, both in terms of versatility and flavor.

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

I mean...I actually kinda like the models 

Don't get me wrong, me too! But coming from someone who painted 40 ardboys, you tend to lose your sanity if you want to do a nice painting job.. at least I did a little. And now there would be 70 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Jabbuk

[Jabbuk]

So, I noticed that some of the lists you guys propose don't have any casters in it (I think the shaman doesn't count since he's in it for the potion). You guys are ok with that? I mean I always think I need some kind of magic in my lists at least. What's your rationale around building lists without casters?

[Malakree]

16 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Don't get me wrong, me too! But coming from someone who painted 40 ardboys, you tend to lose your sanity if you want to do a nice painting job.. at least I did a little. And now there would be 70 

As someone who has painted 60 grots and 35 ardboys haha

[Tomplex]

8 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

So, I noticed that some of the lists you guys propose don't have any casters in it (I think the shaman doesn't count since he's in it for the potion). You guys are ok with that? I mean I always think I need some kind of magic in my lists at least. What's your rationale around building lists without casters?

Magic is kind of an all or nothing proposal in this game. Orruks have very few bonuses to cast or dispell so even with a heavy investment you're unlikely to prosper against factions that do have bonuses. 

 

That said I'm surprised I'm not seeing more inclusion of the fungoid cave shaman ally as that's our only source of extra cp generation nowadays

[Acrozatarim]

I think the shamans absolutely count. In my (limited, obviously) experience thus far, even shamans assigned to boltboy escort will likely have a turn to chuck a spell, while gutrippa escorts likely have more leeway for casting. You're not going to set the world on fire with swampcalla spellcasting but our spells are potent enough that when you do get one off, the other side feels it.

And, of course, the non-casting poisons and elixirs give you flexibility; against foes with less casting prowess you can try and cast more spells, while against magical powerhouses you can focus as much as possible on poisons and elixirs which they cant dispel without feeling like you're wasting the shamans' points.

I think one issue is that there's no intermediary step between swampcallas - which you need anyway - and Gobsprakk. Straight from a cheap support character to a 300 point jack-of-all trades. We don't have a non-unique 'caster lord' tier of shaman in the 150-250 range, or a mounted shaman with a different theme and spell, or whatnot. If you really want to push magic, you need Gobsprakk, and at that point you need to rejig your whole list a lot to fit his 300-point feathery backside in.

[Acrozatarim]

13 minutes ago, Tomplex said:

 

That said I'm surprised I'm not seeing more inclusion of the fungoid cave shaman ally as that's our only source of extra cp generation nowadays

I figure he'll find his way into lists if folks start testing a lot and find the Kruleboyz come up short on CPs, but I don't think we're necessarily a CP-intensive army. Killabosses obviate the need for the battleshock command, and AOA isn't as appealing on units engineered to be VEW Mortal Wound delivery vehicles.

[AlmGandix3]

I know that some spells are really nice but I don't think we will many of them off with the high casting values an sometimes limited range. I think the shamans are enough and can cast once the unbind threats are gone. Without casting bonuses the spell lore is not a win condition.

I mostly see them as anti magic, especially with the murknob. 

The madcap shaman is nice for turn one casting of His own spell and mystic shield.

[Fellman]

How wood this work
gratefull for help with spels, mount traits and batalions 

Allegiance: Kruleboyz - Warclan: Big Yellers
LEADERS
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315) - General - Command Trait: Supa Sneaky - Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
UNITS
20 x Gutrippaz (360)
20 x Gutrippaz (360)
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
20 x Hobgrot Slittaz (160)
ARTILLERY
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)
TOTAL: 1980/2000 WOUNDS: 154

Edited September 20, 2021 by Fellman

[AlmGandix3]

Army Name: Kruleboyz

Army Faction: Orruk Warclans

Army Type: Kruleboyz

Subfaction: Big Yellers

Battlepack: Pitched Battles

Points Limit: 2000 pts

General: Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast

Grand Strategy: Predator’s Domain

Triumph: Indomitable

Battle Trait Bonus: Dirty Tricks, Lethal Surprise

Units

 Gutrippaz

  Battlefield Role: Battleline

  Reinforced: Once

  Points Cost: 360 pts

 Man-skewer Boltboyz

  Battlefield Role: Battleline

  Reinforced: Twice

  Points Cost: 360 pts

 Man-skewer Boltboyz

  Battlefield Role: Battleline

  Reinforced: Once

  Points Cost: 240 pts

 Swampcalla Shaman and Pot-grot

  Battlefield Role: Leader

  Spells: Choking Mist

  Points Cost: 105 pts

 Swampcalla Shaman and Pot-grot

  Battlefield Role: Leader

  Points Cost: 105 pts

 Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (General)

  Battlefield Role: Behemoth, Leader

  Command Traits: Supa Sneaky

  Artefacts of Power: Amulet of Destiny

  Mount Traits: Tough ’Un

  Points Cost: 315 pts

 Killaboss with Stab-Grot

  Battlefield Role: Leader

  Points Cost: 110 pts

 Hobgrot Slittaz

  Battlefield Role: Other

  Points Cost: 80 pts

 Hobgrot Slittaz

  Battlefield Role: Other

  Points Cost: 80 pts

 Hobgrot Slittaz

  Battlefield Role: Other

  Points Cost: 80 pts

 Hobgrot Slittaz

  Battlefield Role: Other

  Points Cost: 80 pts

 Hobgrot Slittaz

  Battlefield Role: Other

  Points Cost: 80 pts

Total Points: 1995 pts

Invalid: Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

I thought about something like this to try out maybe I'll switch one hobgrot unit to upgrade the Killaboss to a gnashtoof one.

Hobgrots have the kruleboyz keyword so the Killaboss works on them.

I'm really curious to see what a horde of hobgrots can do, I really hated them at first but for 80pts they seem like nice screens, tarpits and chip damage.

 

Spells and mount traits are not final since I haven't received my book yet.

Edited September 20, 2021 by AlmGandix3