AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[Acrozatarim]

I'm cautiously optimistic but yeah, frustrated by the lack of core options. This really feels like a faction lacking one or two key units to open up its flexibility and possibilities.

What does surprise me is that both the mirebrute and sloggoth aren't monsters. When we first saw the previews I thought it made sense for GW to go heavy on monsters for the new faction what with the new edition's monster buffs, but then we didn't get that so much after all.

[Mutton]

Deleting my big rant because it doesn't help anything and maybe I'm just not intuitive enough to see all of the army's angles.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Mutton

[novakai]

Battletome: Orruk Warclans 3.0 – The Goonhammer Review – Goonhammer

Goonhammers review seem spot on about them, i feel

[C0deb1ue]

44 minutes ago, Mutton said:

I never like being a negative Nancy, but the Kruleboy rules aren't very good at all. Dirty Tricks are just awful, having to roll a 4+, and then ANOTHER die, AND these added adendums...to activate one of our key allegiance abilities is absurd. They're just dreadful.

I have no idea what Gobsprak is supposed to do. He and the bird both suck in combat. He has a 5+/6+, which means he dies instantly to any army with a modicum of shooting. The only thing he can really do is potentially hurt other casters by unbinding spells; but he has no rerolling or bonuses aside from the once per game ability. And he's 300 points. That feels high for basically a fast 2-spell caster with no bonuses.

Barely any rend (-1 across the board, which is fairly useless in this edition). No big smashy monsters (which again, is THE thing in this edition). A ton of abilities/artifacts are random gambles to activate. The best thing they have is the mortals on 6's, but it doesn't affect mounts...so you're relying on gutrippas/boltboyz to do the damage you need. I'm disappointed in only having 2 monsters, one of which is just a squishy caster that you never want to send into combat. I'm disappointed in a lack of croc/sloggoth battleline options. I'm disappointed that hobgrots are still horrible and really have nothing to do with the rest of the army.

I think this faction will be played in one of two ways. 1) Big yellas shooting spam (which I don't even know will work with how few models you get in a unit for how expensive they are); and 2) As many gutrippas as you can fit into an army with 1 croc, and 2-3 shamans. 

I have to agree with most of what you are saying. The two spam armies seem like such a horrible outcome for this army after all the build up. Just fishing for mortals in highly unexciting ways.

Edited September 11, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[Warbossironteef]

Kruelboyz 2K;

Snachaboss on mount: general: SlipperSkumbag (retreat and charge), Amulet of Destiny - 315

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot - 105

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot - 105

9x Manskewer Boltboyz - 360

9x Manskewer Boltboyz - 360

10x Gutripperz - 180

10x Gutripperz -180

Hobgrot Slittaz - 80

 

1685 - Leaves room for a good amount. Seems legit to me. 

You get double Swampcalla buffs and the +1 Venom from Snacha boss. Some decent bodies for the board... Snachabosses seem to hit pretty hard and it's ability to insta kill things is really nice. 

This seems like an okay start to things. I think there's potential. 

[novakai]

The +1 on MW on the Snatchboss is actually pretty bonkers as most stuff rarely affect range units

[Arzalyn]

I share the general feeling that the army fells shallow option wise. I like our rules, not super strong but solid enough to have a good game. The problem is when we get to list building...

We ended with what we all dread many weeks ago when they said all our units were revealed. Hobgrotz are just chaff, sloggoth is mostly a support piece, guttripaz as the only unconditional Battleline, not a lot of abilities on our warscrolls (most what we already knew from the reveal videos/articles) and not even what seemed to be a lot of monsters happened (just 2 monsters options and I doubt we gonna see lists with more than 2). It feels like the question is simple "do you want to spam Boltboyz or guttripaz?". There isn't much more to build around on a first impression. Maybe a more hero hammer list is possible? 

[Sivyre]

25 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Kruelboyz 2K;

Snachaboss on mount: general: SlipperSkumbag (retreat and charge), Amulet of Destiny - 315

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot - 105

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot - 105

9x Manskewer Boltboyz - 360

9x Manskewer Boltboyz - 360

10x Gutripperz - 180

10x Gutripperz -180

Hobgrot Slittaz - 80

 

1685 - Leaves room for a good amount. Seems legit to me. 

You get double Swampcalla buffs and the +1 Venom from Snacha boss. Some decent bodies for the board... Snachabosses seem to hit pretty hard and it's ability to insta kill things is really nice. 

This seems like an okay start to things. I think there's potential. 

I have mixed feelings about large bodies of bolt boyz, with bravery 5 should the unit lose even just a few models bravery 5 will punish you utmost care needs to be taken and shamans are real hit or miss with me, almost to the point where they feel like a bait because it feels awful that we choose either casting or sit next to a unit to poison for 105 points. it further feels awful because when you take the shamans to poison you almost certainly want gobsprakk for the lore spells since shamans won’t be doing it (boggy mist)

 

boltboyz are great but almost better to take as MSU or as 6 so bravery 5 isn’t as harsh when you lose even but 2 models

 

gutrippaz drive me up the wall, 180points with bravery 5 with 5+ certainly forces you into taking a killaboss just to stop them from fleeing and to avoid this overcosted battleline forces big yellers unless you venture down big waaaagh! In which your probably considering doing brutes. It’s a shame because I just adore the gutrippaz models but bravery 5! With a likely additional tax of a killaboss!! Why you do this to us GW

 

on the up and up the rest of the range seems to be actually quite well and well costed for the most part

[Warbossironteef]

8 minutes ago, Sivyre said:

I have mixed feelings about large bodies of bolt boyz, with bravery 5 should the unit lose even just a few models bravery 5 will punish you utmost care needs to be taken and shamans are real hit or miss with me, almost to the point where they feel like a bait because it feels awful that we choose either casting or sit next to a unit to poison for 105 points. it further feels awful because when you take the shamans to poison you almost certainly want gobsprakk for the lore spells since shamans won’t be doing it (boggy mist)

 

boltboyz are great but almost better to take as MSU or as 6 so bravery 5 isn’t as harsh when you lose even but 2 models

 

gutrippaz drive me up the wall, 180points with bravery 5 with 5+ certainly forces you into taking a killaboss just to stop them from fleeing and to avoid this overcosted battleline forces big yellers unless you venture down big waaaagh! In which your probably considering doing brutes. It’s a shame because I just adore the gutrippaz models but bravery 5! With a likely additional tax of a killaboss!! Why you do this to us GW

 

on the up and up the rest of the range seems to be actually quite well and well costed for the most part

Plenty of ways to help the bravery if you're worried about it. Units of 9 get the added benefit of only need 1 CA to prevent running and getting most out of Shamans.

[Sivyre]

13 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Plenty of ways to help the bravery if you're worried about it. Units of 9 get the added benefit of only need 1 CA to prevent running and getting most out of Shamans.

And that is partially the issue you face with gutrippaz, your certainly going to use a CA on the boltboyz so to prevent mass fleeing means the killaboss needs to come play to prevent your gutrippaz from running away in droves. Which than has you point to big yellers to avoid this battle line option. I do hope down the road gutrippaz drop a bit in points because we all know 180 is a bit much.

 

it’s a strange situation because 20 gutrippaz in a single unit does actually feel good but you will likely want a killa boss to follow them. Using CA on boltboyz if they should take losses from those pesky sentinels or bow snakes 

it could just be that my limited play testing is skewing my view on the gutrippaz but unfortunately thus far I’m looking to other options for my kruleboyz with a lean into big waagh atm I wasn’t sure what I was looking for with the book but I don’t think I’ve found it for them

Edited September 11, 2021 by Sivyre

[novakai]

I think that where the Killaboss comes in it negates the bravery of course you have to give up one model if you fail BS on the onetime you don’t have the CP to fail. 
 

the Killaboss ability has been useful in large units of Gutrippas when I been playing them 

Edited September 11, 2021 by novakai

[Mutton]

Their greatest Achilles' Heel is their almost total lack of defense. Poor armor, no ward saves, and even their few -1 hit debuffs are on casino dice rolls. They all die to a stiff breeze and there's no real way to improve that. They also don't have the speed they need to blitzkrieg like a normal glass cannon army would want to do. Even their universally terrible bravery means they'll all run as soon as they take any casualties, and their heroes will never be able to heal themselves with heroic recovery.

I just don't know. They're a strange army that in practice I could see either being scary in their mortal output or total pushovers who just don't have the tools to take the necessary punches.

[novakai]

31 minutes ago, Mutton said:

and their heroes will never be able to heal themselves with heroic recovery.

I just don't know. They're a strange army that in practice I could see either being scary in their mortal output or total pushovers who just don't have the tools to take the necessary punches.

that not exactly true for 7 bravery heroes, you actually get 58%of getting that heal. it looks bad when you compare to the brave 10 stuff but i find that it happens more frequently then people say it does

 

the bravery issues isn't that bad with the  Killaboss ability and save are not good but two wounds and all out defense  makes up for it a bit.

Edited September 11, 2021 by novakai

[ArkanautDadmiral]

Hey guys, can I take some Brutes in a KB army? I know they won’t get the KB allegiance abilities but they’re some of the coolest models in the game.

I’d imagine you can but I saw a quote that IJ armies can only take units with IJ keyword so wondered if it was same for KB and if you wanted to mix you had to take Big Waaagh? Or have I misinterpreted the quote?

[JanGret]

Orruk Warclans share one "Pitched Battle" table.

Kruleboy Warclans battle traits states:

"You can pick 1 of the following subfactions for your army. "All Kruleboyz units in your army gain the keyford of the subfaction you picked, and you can use the allegiance abilities for that subfaction."

These together heavily imply that you can take Ironjawz and Bonesplitter units into your Kruleboyz army - however they don't benefit from your allegiance ability nor do they gain any of the subfaction allegiance abilities nor will they have their own allegiance ability.

 

[ArkanautDadmiral]

14 minutes ago, JanGret said:

Orruk Warclans share one "Pitched Battle" table.

Kruleboy Warclans battle traits states:

"You can pick 1 of the following subfactions for your army. "All Kruleboyz units in your army gain the keyford of the subfaction you picked, and you can use the allegiance abilities for that subfaction."

These together heavily imply that you can take Ironjawz and Bonesplitter units into your Kruleboyz army - however they don't benefit from your allegiance ability nor do they gain any of the subfaction allegiance abilities nor will they have their own allegiance ability.

 

That’s exactly what I expected, thanks

[Orkmann]

1 hour ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

Hey guys, can I take some Brutes in a KB army? I know they won’t get the KB allegiance abilities but they’re some of the coolest models in the game.

I’d imagine you can but I saw a quote that IJ armies can only take units with IJ keyword so wondered if it was same for KB and if you wanted to mix you had to take Big Waaagh? Or have I misinterpreted the quote?

Sadly it is not possible. If you select a kruleboyz army all of the orruk warclan units have to have the KRULEBOYZ keyword. You can only mix them in BW. This page is shown in the Man-Reads-Book video if you want to check. This situation also leads to some weird stuff, like the sloggoth cannot be part of a kruleboyz army as he lacks the keyword. 

[JanGret]

7 minutes ago, Orkmann said:

Sadly it is not possible. If you select a kruleboyz army all of the orruk warclan units have to have the KRULEBOYZ keyword. You can only mix them in BW. This page is shown in the Man-Reads-Book video if you want to check. This situation also leads to some weird stuff, like the sloggoth cannot be part of a kruleboyz army as he lacks the keyword. 

Can you refer to what this page is called? My quick walk through of the facehammer video has not shown any such page, but that one is 3 1/2 hours long. The only stuff I have seen explicitly states that all Kruleboyz units in your army will gain the chosen subfaction - which heavily implies that you can have non-Kruleboyz units in your army.

[JanGret]

26 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

That’s exactly what I expected, thanks

 

13 minutes ago, Orkmann said:

Sadly it is not possible. If you select a kruleboyz army all of the orruk warclan units have to have the KRULEBOYZ keyword. You can only mix them in BW. This page is shown in the Man-Reads-Book video if you want to check. This situation also leads to some weird stuff, like the sloggoth cannot be part of a kruleboyz army as he lacks the keyword. 

Orkmann is right. I found it in the GMG video (https://youtu.be/ewYJ1eHP6yg?t=302)

On "Da Green Tide" (page 80) it clearly states:

"If you choose a Kruleboyz army, all Orruk Warclans units in the army have have the Kruleboyz keyword"

Same for Ironjawz and Bonesplitters. Only Big Waaagh! allows using of all three warclans.

 

 

[ArkanautDadmiral]

13 minutes ago, JanGret said:

 

Orkmann is right. I found it in the GMG video (https://youtu.be/ewYJ1eHP6yg?t=302)

On "Da Green Tide" (page 80) it clearly states:

"If you choose a Kruleboyz army, all Orruk Warclans units in the army have have the Kruleboyz keyword"

Same for Ironjawz and Bonesplitters. Only Big Waaagh! allows using of all three warclans.

 

 

That sucks unfortunately, puts me off doing a Warclans army at all. Could they not even be taken as allies?

[Acrozatarim]

2 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

That sucks unfortunately, puts me off doing a Warclans army at all. Could they not even be taken as allies?

No, sadly you need to go Big Waaagh to mix the clan units.

[Acrozatarim]

Given we saw some quite stark price drops across a lot of the Dominion characters, while Stormcast saw their prices generally go up since the GHB adjustments, I wonder if going forward Kruleboyz will actually be quite noticeably cheap by comparison to other factions.

[ArkanautDadmiral]

1 minute ago, Acrozatarim said:

No, sadly you need to go Big Waaagh to mix the clan units.

No spending money on KB for me then haha, I was so pumped on the idea of running Brutes alongside them but I don’t want to run Big Waagh just to use another unit in the same book

More to spend on a different project then. Thanks for the clarifications guys.

[Orkmann]

I really hope this will be faqd. I guess they dont want us to run cheap ardboy bline in kruleboyz, but it feels such a missed opportunity, esp that they have introduced the coalition rules for a bunch of other armies, which would be a good option imo.

[AlmGandix3]

I think they will add the ally options in the faq since this is completly bananas.