AoS2-Excelsis (Broken Realms: Kragnos) discussion

[Vongolo]

Battle trait: Gift of Prophecy: Once per phase, when a friendly units shoots or fights, roll dice. On a 2+ the unit has +1 to hit. On 1 it has -1 to hit.

Command ability: Risposte: Pick an excelsis units within 12. For evry 6 save roll, the attacking units takes 1 mortal wound.

Command trait: Cunning foe: can retreat and charge, and when it's used gains +1 to hit and-1 to be hit.

In the right place: redeploy d3 units at the start of the first turn

Darkest secrets: heroes within 3 cant use command abilities

Artifacts: Glimmerling: once per battle, you can replace one hit, wound, charge, or run roll for the bearer with one of your choice.

Rockjaw: Choose a unit in 8. On a 3+, deal d3 mortal wounds

Gryoh-feather charm: add 1 to movement and -1 to to hit rolls targetting the bearer

Spells;

Amber spear: 6+, pick a point visible to the caster in 24, any unit under that line takes a mortal wound on a 2+

Flock of doom: 6+, pick a unit in 18 of the caster and roll 12 dice, for evry 6, that unit takes a mortla wound

Cower: 6+ pick a monster in 12, roll 2d6 against his leadership. If you win that monster cant charge for the rest of the turn.

 

Toughts?

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Vongolo

[Marcvs]

It's always great to get new cities and they picked the theme rather nicely. However, I really don't like abilities that can result in a malus and in general it seems rather bland compared to other cities

[Zeblasky]

Oh, Battle Trait, Command Ability and all Command Traits all look quite awesome.

"Cunning foe" is an amazing trait for Dreadlord with Lance and Shield. You get +1 to save, +1 to hit (this does not affect dragon attacks though, right?), -1 to hit, constant charge bonus for lance and you can dance around enemy army with your flying 14 movement. Having no way to heal your Dragon besides Lifeswarm is a bit of a downside here though.

"In the right place" though is amazing, if a bit random trait as well - the ability to deploy your big block Irondrakes or Sisters with 100% guarantee in front of the enemy turn 1 is pretty great. Add this City battle trait for an almost free +1 to hit, add some extra buffs (especially for Irondrakes), and you've got a very effective deepstrike. The fact that you potentially can also redeploy not 1, but 2 or even 3 units is quite great as well - may be you can move another shooting block this way, or a wall of Eternal Guard spears on the far away objective. Btw, I guess that it's a usual 9 Away from the enemy anywhere on the map deepstrike type of thing?

"Darkest secrets" is quite specific CA, but it's a great Silence ability IF you have some heroes you want to shutdown this way (like let's say a bunch of Skink buffing support heroes).

Artefacts and especially Spells seem quite lackluster though. Charm is a good artefact, but the rest... is quite meh.

[Marcvs]

26 minutes ago, Zeblasky said:

Oh, Battle Trait, Command Ability and all Command Traits all look quite awesome.

"Cunning foe" is an amazing trait for Dreadlord with Lance and Shield. You get +1 to save, +1 to hit (this does not affect dragon attacks though, right?), -1 to hit, constant charge bonus for lance and you can dance around enemy army with your flying 14 movement. Having no way to heal your Dragon besides Lifeswarm is a bit of a downside here though.

"In the right place" though is amazing, if a bit random trait as well - the ability to deploy your big block Irondrakes or Sisters with 100% guarantee in front of the enemy turn 1 is pretty great. Add this City battle trait for an almost free +1 to hit, add some extra buffs (especially for Irondrakes), and you've got a very effective deepstrike. The fact that you potentially can also redeploy not 1, but 2 or even 3 units is quite great as well - may be you can move another shooting block this way, or a wall of Eternal Guard spears on the far away objective. Btw, I guess that it's a usual 9 Away from the enemy anywhere on the map deepstrike type of thing?

"Darkest secrets" is quite specific CA, but it's a great Silence ability IF you have some heroes you want to shutdown this way (like let's say a bunch of Skink buffing support heroes).

Artefacts and especially Spells seem quite lackluster though. Charm is a good artefact, but the rest... is quite meh.

The bonuses for cunning for are only in the turn where you retreat, so this mean surviving at least one combat phase (if the enemy charges you) or two or even three (you charge in, the enemy gets a double) before activating it.

As for "in the right place" no, it's no a free redeploy wherever you want, it's just a redeploy in your normal deployment zone, so sometimes useful but much less exciting.

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

The lack of an extra 1:4 is disappointing. Hopefully the next city that comes out won’t be such a swing and a miss.

[Clan's Cynic]

2 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

The lack of an extra 1:4 is disappointing. Hopefully the next city that comes out won’t be such a swing and a miss.

To be fair, I don't think Excelsis has ever been depicted as having a 'special relationship' the way some other Cities have. I guess they could've had the Lizardmen at a push?

[Lord of the Isle]

I was hoping for miscellaneous mercs 1 in 4! But I really like the general vibe

[Doko]

It isnt useless but also isnt competitive as every other broken realm city,are can be fun to play but dont competitive

[Lord of the Isle]

I think SG is pretty competitive 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I don't really know what to do with Excelsis. All the allegiance abilities seem pretty good, but they don't suggest any particular build to me like, for example, Settler's Gain did.

I guess Excelsis can be another "generalist" choice for goodstuff lists, like Tempest's Eye, Living City or Hammerhal. Although all three of those are also clearly the best choices for certain types of lists, which I can't really say for Excelsis.

[Lord of the Isle]

7 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I don't really know what to do with Excelsis. All the allegiance abilities seem pretty good, but they don't suggest any particular build to me like, for example, Settler's Gain did.

I guess Excelsis can be another "generalist" choice for goodstuff lists, like Tempest's Eye, Living City or Hammerhal. Although all three of those are also clearly the best choices for certain types of lists, which I can't really say for Excelsis.

Definitely more versatile than specialist but also a strong appealing theme / vibe. I feel both lore and rules encourage a quite numerous infantry dominated? Force. And the spells are cool so maybe a few nice cheapo sorceresses worth considering 

[Lord of the Isle]

First go at Excelsis list -

 

Leaders

Freeguild General, General, In the Right Place, Glimmerling

Sorceress, Adjutant, Cower

Sorceress, Flock of Doom

Sorceress on Black Dragon, Amber Spear

 

Battleline

Darkshards

Demigryph Knights, halberds

FG Crossbowmen

FG Handgunners

FG Greatswords, Honoured Retinue

FG Guard, swords and shields

 

Others

Corsairs, Handbows

Executioners

Shadow Warriors

2x Sisters of the Thorn

 

Allies

Khainite Shadowstalkers

 

Extra command point

 

All units minimum size

[SentinelGuy]

I actually quite like the sound of this city. The charm is a decent magic item, as is the glimmerling (hello Mr venator with your one shot arrow, or any hero on a monster making a long charge), and the redeployment trait could be even more important in 3.0, what with tables getting smaller. The prophecy rule also sounds interesting. Once per phase - does that include if you counter fire at a charging enemy? That could be very useful. Spells are ok I guess. The spear isn't amazing, but the flock is alright and cower could be critical at the right moment. I honestly think this could be a hidden gem.

Edited June 12, 2021 by SentinelGuy
Added a word

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

On 5/29/2021 at 1:17 PM, Vongolo said:

Battle trait: Gift of Prophecy: Once per phase, when a friendly units shoots or fights, roll dice. On a 2+ the unit has +1 to hit. On 1 it has -1 to hit.

This just got a lot better with Unleash Hell. Since that ability happens in the charge phase, you basically get to cancel out the -1 to hit from Unleash Hell for free. Or, if the dice roll doesn't go your way, you lose nothing becuase to hit modifiers are capped at -1. It even persists through the whole phase, so if you get to double overwatch with Handgunners, you get the bonus both times.

[SentinelGuy]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

This just got a lot better with Unleash Hell. Since that ability happens in the charge phase, you basically get to cancel out the -1 to hit from Unleash Hell for free. Or, if the dice roll doesn't go your way, you lose nothing becuase to hit modifiers are capped at -1. It even persists through the whole phase, so if you get to double overwatch with Handgunners, you get the bonus both times.

I love that rule. 

Have you seen the realm of beast battalions? The ones they have revealed look quite useful for CoS.

[Zeblasky]

You know, I've just realised another good combo for this city - using Annointed on Fire Phoenix as General with a Cunning Foe trait. This is the only way to get Retreat and Charge in CoS, meaning that, besides getting that great trait bonus, you're also dealing Mortal Wounds with Wake of Fire every battle round. And with Phoenix mobility, you can have a good target selection. So this makes Fire variant much better than Frost one in this City. And if you manage to get a Rebirth as well... Oh boy.

[SentinelGuy]

14 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

You know, I've just realised another good combo for this city - using Annointed on Fire Phoenix as General with a Cunning Foe trait. This is the only way to get Retreat and Charge in CoS, meaning that, besides getting that great trait bonus, you're also dealing Mortal Wounds with Wake of Fire every battle round. And with Phoenix mobility, you can have a good target selection. So this makes Fire variant much better than Frost one in this City. And if you manage to get a Rebirth as well... Oh boy.

I like that idea.

[SentinelGuy]

Based on the talk about the flaming phoenix above, I've taken another look at my Hallowheart list to see if I can move bits around and make it work instead for Excelsis.

I'm not sure which Grand Strategy works best. Any ideas?

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Excelsis
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Anointed on Flamespyre Phoenix (290) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Cunning Foe
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (280) in Battle Regiment
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Ghurish Heartlands: Cower
Runelord (100) in Warlord
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
Assassin (80) in Warlord

Battleline
10 x Dreadspears (90) in Hunters of the Heartlands
10 x Dreadspears (90) in Hunters of the Heartlands
10 x Dreadspears (90) in Hunters of the Heartlands

Units
10 x Irondrakes (160) in Battle Regiment
10 x Irondrakes (160) in Battle Regiment
10 x Irondrakes (160) in Battle Regiment
10 x Shadow Warriors (120) in Warlord
5 x Wild Riders (120) in Battle Regiment
5 x Wild Riders (120) in Battle Regiment

Endless Spells & Invocations
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (80)

Core Battalions
Battle Regiment
Hunters of the Heartlands
Warlord

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

The assassin is there to fill out the required subcommander slots to take the battalions. Not ideal, but it is what it is. The other options are a Cogsmith or Fleetmaster and they're both worse if you don't give them artefacts to aid them.

The Anointed will have the flaming weapon spell. I've added Geminids to the list so that he can maybe use it to help stop overwatching and counter CAs.

[Dassarri]

23 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

You know, I've just realised another good combo for this city - using Annointed on Fire Phoenix as General with a Cunning Foe trait. This is the only way to get Retreat and Charge in CoS, meaning that, besides getting that great trait bonus, you're also dealing Mortal Wounds with Wake of Fire every battle round. And with Phoenix mobility, you can have a good target selection. So this makes Fire variant much better than Frost one in this City. And if you manage to get a Rebirth as well... Oh boy.

Sadly wake of fire won't trigger off this command trait, as it only triggers when making a normal move. Though the Excelsis command trait allows us to retreat and then charge again, it does not actually turn the retreat into a normal move so you wouldn't be allowed to fly out of combat and burn someone as you leave.

[Zeblasky]

5 minutes ago, Dassarri said:

Sadly wake of fire won't trigger off this command trait, as it only triggers when making a normal move. Though the Excelsis command trait allows us to retreat and then charge again, it does not actually turn the retreat into a normal move so you wouldn't be allowed to fly out of combat and burn someone as you leave.

Damn, I totally forgot that new rules changed the definition of normal move. Well, it was possible in AoS 2.0 x)