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AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion


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4 hours ago, Thamalys said:

@Neil Arthur Hotep, I agree with your analysis. At the moment, the one thing that Legion of Blood seems to be doing slightly better than the rest of the BloodLines is to keep your VLoZD alive for longer. Soulbound Garment makes brings him on a 2+ base, which is quite cool. If you bring Neferata (yes, that's a LOT of points, but hear me out...) you can make that 2+ "unrendable", which is gross, and on top of that you can give him Aura of Dark Majesty for a flat -1 to hit, which you can double via Neferata's command ability (Twilight Allure) to counteract any All out Attack commands. You are looking at 14 wounds on a 2+ unrendable save and -1 to hit with healing. Not shabby. However, mortal wounds will bring him down, and he's not the blender he was in the "old" Legion of Blood. Damage-wise he can spike, but nothing you can rely on. The Coven Throne can help to a point in that department. I found it weird that the allegiance ability asks you to focus on Deathrattle, but then again we have the Kastelai for the Blood Knights, so...

Legion of Blood, finally a topic I have some insight on 😆 🧛‍♀️!!

I love Neferata and the Legion of Blood lore, so I've been desperately trying to make a competitively viable LoB list, and have had some success. The basic idea is 1) Neferata is awesome, 2) VLoZD with Soulbound Garments is super tanky, so agree 100% with this analysis, and 3) The Wight King w/ Steed is a critical part of the army to get GG as Battleline and is a great tank too! The list hinges on getting into combat (ie. surviving hero/shooting phases), tanking things, and getting my heavy hitters into place (GG, Blood Knights, Nef). The strength of LoB seems to be in its artifacts more-so than its allegiance abilities, Favoured Retainers and/or Immortal Majesty rarely come up in my games, but when they do they are obviously more "bonuses" than "build-arounds".

My go-to list:
 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)*
- Deathlance
- Artefact: Soulbound Garments
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)*
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Necromancer (125)*
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130)*
- General
- Command Trait: Aura of Dark Majesty
- Artefact: Ring of Dominion

Battleline
5 x Black Knights (120)**
20 x Grave Guard (280)**
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)**
- Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Prismatic Palisade (40)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
Drops: 9


The learning so far is the Necromancer is sorta an unnecessary points sink. Vanhel's is obviously awesome, but what happens is I usually put my GG in a gravesite to pop them up nearby something I want them to kill, so the Necromancer usually can't reach them as he is usually hanging with the Deathrattle for the wound offloading, and Vanhel's on the Deathrattle is nice but maybe not worth the point-sink into the Necromancer. Instead, the CA from the Vampire Lord (on foot) is more useful as it helps the first attack from a GG or Deathrattle unit, as usually those units are wiped pretty quickly so a second attack in a phase from them is sometimes nullified by my opponent prioritizing those units in the combat phase. The problem with the Vamp Lord is its another CP sink, which I already have a bunch of with Nef and the WK! I'm considering dropping one of those heroes, likely the Necromancer, for more GG or something. I've been using Flaming Weapon on the Vamp Lord to try and make him a bit more of a heavy hitter but it hasn't been effective, so I might give him Amethystine Pinions instead to use after I've used it on the VLoZD in a previous hero phase.

For the WK, I've given up on on the bravery bomb, and instead I give him Aura of Dark Majesty, and usually use Nef's Dark Mist on the WK too, and like to ram the WK into things to tank. I used to run the Oubliette Arcana on him, but I'm going to give the Ring of Dominion a try, as I already have a good amount of unbinds and I think I'll get more mileage out of the Ring.

I'll also say that a unit of Black Knights are surprisingly useful, they fill a battle-line in LoB and make a great screen, as they have the effective 18" range and do mortals on the charge. I know people like Dire Wolves for this but the small point discount for Black Knights is nice, and they benefit from the LoB abilities. I've actually considered a second unit of Black Knights as having another speedy screen could help, but the way they points shake out, I'd almost certainly be better off taking a 10 man unit of GG instead. The issue with GG is that they are just so slow, and at least in my meta they'd probably just get shot off the table before being useful.

Lastly, Nef is a real star🧛‍♀️. I've only gotten about 8ish games with this list in (and I'm probably 50% win rate but I'm also a new player, I think that will go up), and the hero kill ability has actually never worked out but just the threat of that ability is awesome (but also puts a big bullseye on Nef), and I almost pulled it off against Archaon! Dark Mist is spectacular, and her CA is really good too. Her 16" move is great for hopping over things and attacking back-line heroes and shooting units. The problem with Nef is keeping her alive as she is the preferred target for opponent hero/shooting phases. I've put Vile Transference on her now (I was trying out Deathmages lore spells before but wasn't getting much use out of them) which might help, and obviously killing stuff with Nef gives her the D6 heal which is fantastic. She's so good that I've considered dropping the VLoZD for maybe a Coven Throne (and some more GG potentially) as the Coven Throne might be more synergistic with Nef, but I don't have that model so haven't really tried it out yet! 

Edited by oggurt_da_bog_zombie
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2 hours ago, oggurt_da_bog_zombie said:

Legion of Blood, finally a topic I have some insight on 😆 🧛‍♀️!!

I love Neferata and the Legion of Blood lore, so I've been desperately trying to make a competitively viable LoB list, and have had some success. The basic idea is 1) Neferata is awesome, 2) VLoZD with Soulbound Garments is super tanky, so agree 100% with this analysis, and 3) The Wight King w/ Steed is a critical part of the army to get GG as Battleline and is a great tank too! The list hinges on getting into combat (ie. surviving hero/shooting phases), tanking things, and getting my heavy hitters into place (GG, Blood Knights, Nef). The strength of LoB seems to be in its artifacts more-so than its allegiance abilities, Favoured Retainers and/or Immortal Majesty rarely come up in my games, but when they do they are obviously more "bonuses" than "build-arounds".

My go-to list:
 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)*
- Deathlance
- Artefact: Soulbound Garments
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)*
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Necromancer (125)*
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130)*
- General
- Command Trait: Aura of Dark Majesty
- Artefact: Ring of Dominion

Battleline
5 x Black Knights (120)**
20 x Grave Guard (280)**
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)**
- Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Prismatic Palisade (40)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
Drops: 9


The learning so far is the Necromancer is sorta an unnecessary points sink. Vanhel's is obviously awesome, but what happens is I usually put my GG in a gravesite to pop them up nearby something I want them to kill, so the Necromancer usually can't reach them as he is usually hanging with the Deathrattle for the wound offloading, and Vanhel's on the Deathrattle is nice but maybe not worth the point-sink into the Necromancer. Instead, the CA from the Vampire Lord (on foot) is more useful as it helps the first attack from a GG or Deathrattle unit, as usually those units are wiped pretty quickly so a second attack in a phase from them is sometimes nullified by my opponent prioritizing those units in the combat phase. The problem with the Vamp Lord is its another CP sink, which I already have a bunch of with Nef and the WK! I'm considering dropping one of those heroes, likely the Necromancer, for more GG or something. I've been using Flaming Weapon on the Vamp Lord to try and make him a bit more of a heavy hitter but it hasn't been effective, so I might give him Amethystine Pinions instead to use after I've used it on the VLoZD in a previous hero phase.

For the WK, I've given up on on the bravery bomb, and instead I give him Aura of Dark Majesty, and usually use Nef's Dark Mist on the WK too, and like to ram the WK into things to tank. I used to run the Oubliette Arcana on him, but I'm going to give the Ring of Dominion a try, as I already have a good amount of unbinds and I think I'll get more mileage out of the Ring.

I'll also say that a unit of Black Knights are surprisingly useful, they fill a battle-line in LoB and make a great screen, as they have the effective 18" range and do mortals on the charge. I know people like Dire Wolves for this but the small point discount for Black Knights is nice, and they benefit from the LoB abilities. I've actually considered a second unit of Black Knights as having another speedy screen could help, but the way they points shake out, I'd almost certainly be better off taking a 10 man unit of GG instead. The issue with GG is that they are just so slow, and at least in my meta they'd probably just get shot off the table before being useful.

Lastly, Nef is a real star🧛‍♀️. I've only gotten about 8ish games with this list in (and I'm probably 50% win rate but I'm also a new player, I think that will go up), and the hero kill ability has actually never worked out but just the threat of that ability is awesome (but also puts a big bullseye on Nef), and I almost pulled it off against Archaon! Dark Mist is spectacular, and her CA is really good too. Her 16" move is great for hopping over things and attacking back-line heroes and shooting units. The problem with Nef is keeping her alive as she is the preferred target for opponent hero/shooting phases. I've put Vile Transference on her now (I was trying out Deathmages lore spells before but wasn't getting much use out of them) which might help, and obviously killing stuff with Nef gives her the D6 heal which is fantastic. She's so good that I've considered dropping the VLoZD for maybe a Coven Throne (and some more GG potentially) as the Coven Throne might be more synergistic with Nef, but I don't have that model so haven't really tried it out yet! 

I am going to try a very similar list against boneplitterz this Friday, but instead of running the WK and the Necro, I will run 30 skeletons, a blazier corpse cart, and an extra unit of Black Knights. I find that the Nef's command ability and the corpse cart's -1 to wound aura makes our guys very tanky in combat. With that combination, I haven't lost the skeleton block so far, they always held one side of the board in every game. Also, the -1 to cast aura helped a lot against LRL.

Neferata is an interesting one. I mainly use her to protect my line with her command ability, and to make my opponents think twice about where they move their big boys. Not everyone want to risk that 1 in 3 chance, and the ones that do usually regret it (mine has claimed Be'lakor's head). But, I have a question about this. Does this ability work if Nef is slain after her attacks? I am not sure. And her spell is awesome. I usually take the Amulet of destiny over the Soulbound garments, because between Dark Mist, Mystic shield, All out defense, and Finest hour, it is easy to give that 2+ to the VLOZD, or herself. I feel like we need the MW defence more.

Regarding our allegiance abilities. I have a feeling that Favoured retainers will become very strong. It helped against LRL (shining company), and Stormcast just got an easy cast spell for a big -1 to wound aura, which we don't care about. Also Arkhaon might want to respect our humble GG now, that he can't make us re-roll 6s to hit. It is harder to make immortal majesty work, but if you have enough vampire units to hit 2-3 targets, it can provide some additional casualties. It is something I especially want to test against armies with 4+ ward. I will see if it works against Bonesplitterz, or not.

And a few thoughts on Black Knights. I will use them for the first time on Friday, and I mainly want to see how useful they MWs on the charge will be. In theory, I can use them 2 ways. First, to soak up unleash hell, and still do some damage with them, because the MWs happen right after they finish the charge move (so, before Unleash hell). And second, is to clear small screens, or at least to make space for our big boys to charge something that the screen tried to protect. This where I am a bit torn on which Command Trait to use: RE-roll charges, so I can make those charges more reliably, or the extra pile in, to get to the units behind the screen. Oh, and a third niche use: the MWs are in the charge phase, so it's an extra phase we can deal damage to Morathi (and Mannfred too).

And a bit of a rant: It sucks that basically every list needs, or at least better with Belladama. Her ability to stop re-deploy and unleash hell, and the extra +1 to unbinds is just so hard to pass up. I really wish we got something more to help with these issues...

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15 minutes ago, Gery81 said:

I am going to try a very similar list against boneplitterz this Friday, but instead of running the WK and the Necro, I will run 30 skeletons, a blazier corpse cart, and an extra unit of Black Knights. I find that the Nef's command ability and the corpse cart's -1 to wound aura makes our guys very tanky in combat. With that combination, I haven't lost the skeleton block so far, they always held one side of the board in every game. Also, the -1 to cast aura helped a lot against LRL.

Neferata is an interesting one. I mainly use her to protect my line with her command ability, and to make my opponents think twice about where they move their big boys. Not everyone want to risk that 1 in 3 chance, and the ones that do usually regret it (mine has claimed Be'lakor's head). But, I have a question about this. Does this ability work if Nef is slain after her attacks? I am not sure. And her spell is awesome. I usually take the Amulet of destiny over the Soulbound garments, because between Dark Mist, Mystic shield, All out defense, and Finest hour, it is easy to give that 2+ to the VLOZD, or herself. I feel like we need the MW defence more.

Regarding our allegiance abilities. I have a feeling that Favoured retainers will become very strong. It helped against LRL (shining company), and Stormcast just got an easy cast spell for a big -1 to wound aura, which we don't care about. Also Arkhaon might want to respect our humble GG now, that he can't make us re-roll 6s to hit. It is harder to make immortal majesty work, but if you have enough vampire units to hit 2-3 targets, it can provide some additional casualties. It is something I especially want to test against armies with 4+ ward. I will see if it works against Bonesplitterz, or not.

And a few thoughts on Black Knights. I will use them for the first time on Friday, and I mainly want to see how useful they MWs on the charge will be. In theory, I can use them 2 ways. First, to soak up unleash hell, and still do some damage with them, because the MWs happen right after they finish the charge move (so, before Unleash hell). And second, is to clear small screens, or at least to make space for our big boys to charge something that the screen tried to protect. This where I am a bit torn on which Command Trait to use: RE-roll charges, so I can make those charges more reliably, or the extra pile in, to get to the units behind the screen. Oh, and a third niche use: the MWs are in the charge phase, so it's an extra phase we can deal damage to Morathi (and Mannfred too).

And a bit of a rant: It sucks that basically every list needs, or at least better with Belladama. Her ability to stop re-deploy and unleash hell, and the extra +1 to unbinds is just so hard to pass up. I really wish we got something more to help with these issues...


Re: Amulet vs Soulbound, ya I flop back and forth on this one. I'm already getting the 6+ ward via Deathless Minions and so I've trended towards getting to a 2+ via the Soulbound Garments so I don't have to spend CP / Spells on the VLoZD and can get a second unit, like the WK or Nef, down to a 2+, but I can see an argument for using the Amulet instead, as you are totally right that LoB (or just Soulblight in general) are still pretty weak to MWs even with the 6+ Deathless Minions.

Re: Nef, I don't see why the hero slay ability wouldn't work if Nef dies later in the combat phase... Doesn't say so in the rules, and it makes sense lore wise (i.e. its a "vampiric" blade and the damage to the hero is already done 🤷‍♂️).

Re: Allegiance abilities, ya I'm thinking this is the case too, I think Favoured Retainers will be more useful as more AoS tomes come out.

Re: Black Knights, ya I think they are mostly useful for soaking up shooting damage and tying up shooting units. I don't really rely on them for anything else, and the MWs are a nice bonus as a slightly wounded unit can be finished off by something else. I've only played DoK - Morathi once, but I'm pretty sure its only 3 wounds max a turn, not per phase, so I don't think it works out the way you described, but maybe I'm wrong?

Completely agree about Belladamma, doubt it ever changes. I'll run a Vyrkos army with her but I'm sticking to "canon" Legion of Blood list for now!

Good luck! 

Edited by oggurt_da_bog_zombie
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Hey everyone, it's been awhile since I've posted anything here and though I'd throw in my own two cents and share how my own games have been going. For transparency purposes I've only played 24 games as SBG this season, so while I'm not a seasoned tournament player I am a regular club player. I've played a decent variety of armies, but not many of the really "big bads" like Tzeentch-Arachaon or Morathi Bow-Snakes. Armies I've played against include: Lumineth, Cities of Sigmar (a couple different kinds), Sons of Behemoth, Nurgle, Skaven, Seraphon (some Kroak lists, some dino heavy carnosaur lists), Ogre gutbusters, Ogre Beastclaws, Soulblight (but for this game I played FEC), and maybe one or two others I can't remember.

I've mostly been running variations of two types of lists. I've made little tweaks here and there but here are two examples of the type of lists I'm running:

Vyrkos Dynsasty

Spoiler

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords

- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty

- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery

- Triumphs: 

 

Leaders

Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380)**

- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)*

- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Radukar the Beast (315)*

Necromancer (125)**

- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)

- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Vampire Lord (140)**

- General

- Command Trait: Pack Alpha 

- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)

- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

 

Battleline

20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*

30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)*

- Reinforced x 2

20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*

 

Units

20 x Grave Guard (280)*

- Great Wight Blades

- Reinforced x 1

3 x Fell Bats (75)**

 

Core Battalions

*Battle Regiment

**Warlord

 

Additional Enhancements

Artefact

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 3 / 4

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 142

Drops: 5

Legion of Night

Spoiler

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords

- Lineage: Legion of Night

- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

- Triumphs:

 

Leaders

Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380)*

- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Vampire Lord (140)*

- Artefact: Morbheg's Claw

- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130)*

- General

- Command Trait: Unbending Will

Necromancer (125)

- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)

- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

 

Battleline

30 x Grave Guard (420)**

- Great Wight Blades

- Reinforced x 2

30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)**

- Reinforced x 2

20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)

20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)

 

Units

1 x Corpse Cart with Unholy Lodestone(80)*

5 x Blood Knights (195)**

 

Endless Spells & Invocations

Chronomantic Cogs (45)

 

Core Battalions

*Warlord

**Hunters of the Heartlands

 

Additional Enhancements

Artefact

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 4 / 4

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 150

Drops: 10

These lists have done very well against most of the armies I've played against, which as you can see, are largely melee focused armies with little magic and not a lot of aggressive shooting. When these lists get to "play the way they want" they are very powerful.

Lots of synergistic buffs like Vanhel's, Crimson Feast, Killing Moon, Radukar's CA, and of course Mannfred's Vigour CA. These buffs can be passed around pretty easily so you can shift your threats around quite well. One turn your grave guard can be a crazy blender capable of destroying anything, the next your zombies are pumping out 40 attacks instead.

These armies have enough bodies that they can reliably "hold two" and usually pressure one more. You have a good number of heroes and some fast units so completing battle tactics is pretty easy. Generally speaking, when this army goes off, it goes off hard, and it can do so very reliably against these melee type armies.

On the other hand, armies with strong targeted mortal wounds (via spells or ranged attacks) and strong anti-magic absolutely deconstruct and destroy these lists. I actually have a 0% win rate against Lumineth with these lists and they are one of the armies I play against the most. Seraphon with thunder lizards and Kroak also did a decent job of shutting down these lists, though to a lesser extent.

Strong ranged attacks with mortal wounds just tear through these list's support heroes with ease, and can reliably take down 1-2 a turn. Your larger heroes also aren't very safe from dedicated Sentinel barrages and similar type attacks. Strong unbinding armies, like Lumineth as well, also shut off a lot of your buffs. One of the reasons why I shifted towards the LoN build was because the potential +3 to casting was much more valuable for getting casts off than the re-rolling from Vyrkos. Control spells such as Total Eclipse, Shackles, and any spell that reduces movement or pile-in can also grind this army to a stop.

Understandably, without your magic or support heroes this kind of list falls apart pretty quickly. I haven't played against them personally, but I would assume that these lists would also crumble against DoK and Tzeentch lists as well, possibly the new SCE and Kruelboyz too. Of course, no list is perfect and needs its weaknesses. As I said before, if these lists get to play to their strengths they are very strong.

Moving forward however, I'm not sure what to do. I'm not really enjoying the swingy power level of these lists. Some lists I play against can't seem to do anything against it and I run them over, some lists with strong shooting do the same back to me, and there are really only a few lists that seem to play on a fairly even level.

I'd like to play something that does work better against shooting, especially as I'm starting to see more and more shooting armies enter our local meta. I've been following the tournament results pretty closely and while it's nice that SBG have been doing really well, I'm not particularly liking the style of lists I see winning or 4-1'ing events. I don't really want to take 80-120 zombies or 30 blood knights. I specifically took up SBG to play an army that uses a variety of units and use support heroes.

So I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I'll be continuing to tech my lists in a way that can hold up in a shooting meta, and would love to see any advice on the matter, if not I might take a short break from SBG to try out some different stuff. These lists are tons of fun to play though, especially if you have lots of melee armies in your meta, and I would encourage this kind of play style if you think it looks fun too.

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12 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I don't think the extra battleshock casualties from Immortal Majesty are worth building around. That is more of a bonus if it happens, I'd say. Previously, I was toying with the idea of giving a Wight King on Steed the Soul-Crushing Contempt command trait and sending him in with a unit of Black Knights for a combined -3 to bravery, +1d3 extra units fleeing. But it turns out that Immortal Majesty is VAMPIRE keyword only, so that doesn't even work.

I think putting Soul-Crushing Contempt on the Wight King works if you run it next to Blood Knights instead of Black Knights because, as vampires, Blood Knights activate the 1d3 fleeing part. Yes, you miss out on the extra -1 to battleshock, but you're still giving -2 and can often times kill enough models that battleshock still presents a real threat. Gives you two scenarios: 1) The battleshock penalty works, and you get at least 1d3+1 fleeing models, which equates to a decent amount of free "wounds" done to the unit. Great. 2) The battleshock penalty isn't enough. You still have 5 Blood Knights in melee now. Which. Isn't a bad thing.

Obviously with Black Knights being battleline in LoB, it feels like there's that additional pressure to run them. Personally, I still don't think they're worth it because their warscroll is pretty mediocre and their points are way too high for what they bring. On the other hand, Blood Knights do enough damage on a charge (which they should get on most of your turns) to actually make the battleshock penalty a threat, and I don't think I can say that about Black Knights.

With that in mind, you end up with just bringing 5 Blood Knights, and then paying 135 points for a -2 battleshock aura to help take advantage of the +1d3 fleeing units they can cause. Plus the WK will do a couple wounds occasionally, which is nice, too. This lines up with you saying that it's really more of a bonus than something to build around, but I think it's a bonus that will come up often enough to matter if you happen to keep it in mind while list building.

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2 hours ago, Leshoyadut said:

I think putting Soul-Crushing Contempt on the Wight King works if you run it next to Blood Knights instead of Black Knights because, as vampires, Blood Knights activate the 1d3 fleeing part. Yes, you miss out on the extra -1 to battleshock, but you're still giving -2 and can often times kill enough models that battleshock still presents a real threat. Gives you two scenarios: 1) The battleshock penalty works, and you get at least 1d3+1 fleeing models, which equates to a decent amount of free "wounds" done to the unit. Great. 2) The battleshock penalty isn't enough. You still have 5 Blood Knights in melee now. Which. Isn't a bad thing.

Obviously with Black Knights being battleline in LoB, it feels like there's that additional pressure to run them. Personally, I still don't think they're worth it because their warscroll is pretty mediocre and their points are way too high for what they bring. On the other hand, Blood Knights do enough damage on a charge (which they should get on most of your turns) to actually make the battleshock penalty a threat, and I don't think I can say that about Black Knights.

With that in mind, you end up with just bringing 5 Blood Knights, and then paying 135 points for a -2 battleshock aura to help take advantage of the +1d3 fleeing units they can cause. Plus the WK will do a couple wounds occasionally, which is nice, too. This lines up with you saying that it's really more of a bonus than something to build around, but I think it's a bonus that will come up often enough to matter if you happen to keep it in mind while list building.

Good idea, I was toying around tryin to figure out how to effctively use a wight king (tbh, they're so bad. They simply don't do anything, imo 60 points is what they should cost.). The biggest issue being that he does not benefit of off any Subfaction trait (which is overall a huge oversight concerning or BT, too many traits are locked behind Keywords for no reason).

Your suggestion might actually work :)

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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Good idea, I was toying around tryin to figure out how to effctively use a wight king (tbh, they're so bad. They simply don't do anything, imo 60 points is what they should cost.). The biggest issue being that he does not benefit of off any Subfaction trait (which is overall a huge oversight concerning or BT, too many traits are locked behind Keywords for no reason).

Your suggestion might actually work :)

I also use the WK general as a reason to bring a block of 30 GG. They're pricey, but they make a solid grinder unit since they're 30 wounds, do good damage on their own, absorb buffs well, and are summonable at 1 wound per model, making them easy to bring back with Deathly Invocation and Invigorating Aura. That way the WK isn't 135 points for just a battleshock aura.

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5 hours ago, Leshoyadut said:

I think putting Soul-Crushing Contempt on the Wight King works if you run it next to Blood Knights instead of Black Knights because, as vampires, Blood Knights activate the 1d3 fleeing part. Yes, you miss out on the extra -1 to battleshock, but you're still giving -2 and can often times kill enough models that battleshock still presents a real threat. Gives you two scenarios: 1) The battleshock penalty works, and you get at least 1d3+1 fleeing models, which equates to a decent amount of free "wounds" done to the unit. Great. 2) The battleshock penalty isn't enough. You still have 5 Blood Knights in melee now. Which. Isn't a bad thing.

Obviously with Black Knights being battleline in LoB, it feels like there's that additional pressure to run them. Personally, I still don't think they're worth it because their warscroll is pretty mediocre and their points are way too high for what they bring. On the other hand, Blood Knights do enough damage on a charge (which they should get on most of your turns) to actually make the battleshock penalty a threat, and I don't think I can say that about Black Knights.

With that in mind, you end up with just bringing 5 Blood Knights, and then paying 135 points for a -2 battleshock aura to help take advantage of the +1d3 fleeing units they can cause. Plus the WK will do a couple wounds occasionally, which is nice, too. This lines up with you saying that it's really more of a bonus than something to build around, but I think it's a bonus that will come up often enough to matter if you happen to keep it in mind while list building.

Ya, so I have both Black and Blood Knights in my list, so depending on the situation I could try pulling this off with either combo, or on an especially large blob unit, can do this with both!

I've mostly given up on the bravery bomb for now as I have Coalesced Thunderlizards (cant modify bravery) and HotEc Archaon (ignore battleshock) in my local meta (as I'm sure many of us do), so messing with battleshock isn't that high priority, and the basic Battleshock shenanigans are fairly useful against normal lists anyway. I have been able to beat both TL and Archaon but it... wasn't easy. Getting the full 20 model GG unit into combat is the key tactic, and I've done that by keeping things like the Bastilodon or Archaon wasting time fighting trash like the Black Knights while the GG get into position.

I think the WK on Steed is great, does alright damage and mortals on the charge, and so I've opted for keeping him alive with the Aura of Dark Majesty, and going to try out the ring of dominion on him to see if that boosts his damage a bit. His 3+ base save is pretty nice too!

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1 hour ago, Liquidsteel said:

The only concern with the black knights is that they are an easy target for Broken Ranks, potentially.

On the other hand, they are a good way to get a summonable unit destroyed early for Endless Legions. They also don't lose much punch because a lot of their damage comes from the d3 mortals they deal (as sad as that is).

I keep trying to fit one unit of 5 into lists, but it's often hard when I could just bring Direwolves, Fell Bats or a Vargskyr instead.

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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

On the other hand, they are a good way to get a summonable unit destroyed early for Endless Legions. They also don't lose much punch because a lot of their damage comes from the d3 mortals they deal (as sad as that is).

I keep trying to fit one unit of 5 into lists, but it's often hard when I could just bring Direwolves, Fell Bats or a Vargskyr instead.

Correct, just they'd arguably be better outside of Legion of Blood.

Putting them in to the opponent turn 1 and they don't die means an easy 3 points battle tactic for the opponent is all.

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5 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

Correct, just they'd arguably be better outside of Legion of Blood.

Putting them in to the opponent turn 1 and they don't die means an easy 3 points battle tactic for the opponent is all.

It kinda goes the other way as well by helping you get Hold the Line. It's not like Black Knights are great either inside or out of Legion of Blood, but I find that being Battleline makes them generally more attractive to me. I think they would compete with Direwolves much better if they were just always battleline.

I often find myself writing a list with Radukar the Beast and a unit of Grave Guard in it. Grave Guard are not battleline by default, and Radukar brings a unit of Direwolves with him which also does not count towards battleline. In those lists, even though I bring a high number of bodies, I find that filling battleline is not completely trivial. I would appreciate if I was able to bring a tech piece like Black Knights for battleline in those situations. It would set them apart from Fell Bats or the Vargskyr, who otherwise do a similar job cheaper and possibly better. Right now, I am frequently kinda stuck bringing extra Direwolves or Zombies.

Edited by Neil Arthur Hotep
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8 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

The only concern with the black knights is that they are an easy target for Broken Ranks, potentially.

Ya, it's a concern but I've sorta just succumbed to the fact that since Soulblight battleline are sorta flimsy but (re)summonable, they are going to die and thats okay, and so having difficulty preventing an opponent from getting Broken Ranks is sorta a tradeoff. Opponents are just going to take Broken Ranks when any of Soulblight's battleline are close to being killed and have a pretty easy time getting it (but yes, agree that Black Knights are by far the easiest). All out Def or Mystic Shield on Black Knights is probably a waste but could work, and obviously Nef's CA if she is nearby is helpful too.

On the other hand, I think I've had a ton of success when opponents take Slay the Warlord or Bring It Down and aren't able to finish off a WK general with all sorts of melee defense buffs, or can't kill a VLoZD with Soulbound Garments. Everything is a tradeoff I suppose.

Edited by oggurt_da_bog_zombie
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Hey guys!  This feels like it may be a stupid question and I'm just missing something, but I've been working on a few different Soulblight lists and wasn't sure if we have to take at least one artefact from the dynasty we choose.  The part in the core rules about subfactions that I read made it feel like we do, but I've seen a bunch of lists with just a universal or two universal artefacts and no artefacts from the subfaction.  Can anyone help me understand this and how it works?  Thanks!!

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8 hours ago, Mbookey20 said:

Hey guys!  This feels like it may be a stupid question and I'm just missing something, but I've been working on a few different Soulblight lists and wasn't sure if we have to take at least one artefact from the dynasty we choose.  The part in the core rules about subfactions that I read made it feel like we do, but I've seen a bunch of lists with just a universal or two universal artefacts and no artefacts from the subfaction.  Can anyone help me understand this and how it works?  Thanks!!

Most of the 2.0 books had an artefact and command trait "tax" where your first artefact and your general's CA were requirements for subfactions.

Soulblight does not have this restriction.

You can take whatever CA or artefacts that you like. You don't need to take one from a subfaction if you don't want.

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9 hours ago, Kaizennus said:

Most of the 2.0 books had an artefact and command trait "tax" where your first artefact and your general's CA were requirements for subfactions.

Soulblight does not have this restriction.

You can take whatever CA or artefacts that you like. You don't need to take one from a subfaction if you don't want.

Oh awesome that makes sense then!  Thanks for clearing that up for me!!

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Hi guys,

I played 2 games with below list (against Big Waagh and Kruleboyz) and in both games I tabled my opponent in turn 2. Last game I used the Rousing Commander command trait (since swift and deadly wasn't really needed). In both games my blood knights were mostly not in range of my general (but performed very well elsewhere on the board). 

Because of this I am considering to run this list in Vyrkos. I would then take the hunter's snare command trait and Sangsyron artifact (great combo with flaming weapon), and swap the unit of grave guard for 2 units of dire wolves. I think the list still has plenty of damage output but will improve the casting and survivability of Belladamma and improve objective play. What are your thoughts on these changes? 

Thanks

 

Screenshot_20211004-094716_Gallery.jpg

Edited by Le Chef
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I managed to go 4-1 with Soulblight at the Mancunian Carnage tournament this weekend, taking best in Grand Alliance: Death from outside the top 3. 

My list was as per below, which was the same as the 2nd place finisher, bar a different artefact.

I should note, that the event gave out additional Tournament Points for a number of secondaries and soft scores. You could earn up to 20 TP's for painting, 25 for Sports, and 50 for scoring and denying your opponent a 1 per game secondary, which you had to choose from a list of 10 at the start of each game, including things such as "roll a natural 11 to charge", "leave opponent with no more or less than 1 hero alive at the end of the game", "rally back 6 or more models" etc. 

Final Standings (top half):

Image

Spoiler

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970)*
Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130)*
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard

Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103
Drops: 1

Game 1 vs Seraphon on The Vice - 13 - 14 defeat at end of turn 3

Opponent was running Thunder Lizard for that sweet -1 damage and extra jaw attacks on his Sallies. He also managed to get the side with Arcane terrain, which was a big swing on my magic effectiveness. We only had 10 minutes left as we were finishing turn 3 so we called it there, with him up 13-14. He won the roll off for turn 4 and we called it there. I didn't use my artefact very effectively and was too defensive. Rousing Commander was not used due to the Wight King dying on his turn 2, which at least would have made the Blood Knights damage 3 on the charge. I also failed to kill his Engine of the Gods turn 3 by 1 wound which would have drawn the game.

 

Game 2 vs Blades of Khorne on Feral Foray - 16 -11 victory at end of turn 3

Opponent had Archaon, a Warshrine, Priest, Stoker and some chaff. I gave him first turn and he charged Archaon in to some Blood Knights. Failing his roar, he fought twice with Archaon, but only killed 3 Blood Knights, failing his tactic. After this I screened out the objective with the remaining Blood Knights and Zombies and pushed through the middle/other side, taking and burning 2 of his objectives and running away with it.

 

Game 3 vs Seraphon on Apex Predators - 21 - 2 victory and tabled at end of turn 4

This game was against a player who despite having a lot of experience with the army, had barely played AoS 3.0 and missed quite a few things. I managed to take 2 objectives and they were too far from the third to take it even with 2 turns of movement, and despite a back and forth over 2 turns of not much damage, eventually Nagash managed to run rampant and I tabled them end of turn 4.

 

Game 4 vs Skaven on Savage Gains - 31 - 30 victory and almost tabled at end of turn 5

This game was really great, the opponent had 6 Stormfiends, 2 x Verminlords (one fighty, one casty) plus a Foot caster and a few units of chaff. I went first and played defensive and got my buffs up. He tried an early gambit to kill my Wight King, jumping through a gnawhole and making an 11 inch charge, however I was in cover, and made 3 of my 4 saves and only took 2 damage, making 3 deathless. In the meantime he shot off my Zombies and starting on whittling down my Blood Knights. I managed to turn around and kill his General with Nagash. He won and gave away turn 3, removing the objective on my side, and managed to get his stormfiends up on to my objective in his turn and then won the double in to turn 4. He was on 28 to my 15 however we still had an hour left and it was close. I managed to take his objective with 2 units of Blood Knights and take mine back, then in the next turn take back the middle objective and kill all his units, bar 1 wound remaining on the Warpseer. He was only able to take back his home objective and score a tactic, leaving the game 31-30 to me at the end of turn 5.

 

Game 5 vs Soulblight on Power Struggle, 15-10 victory at end of turn 3

Another great game, with a Nagash mirror match, though he was running Nagash, Mannfred, Vengorian, with 1 x 5 Blood Knights and 2 x 10 Skeletons. Being 1 drop I had a big advantage on this battleplan in this match up. I deployed first and was conservative, and he put his Nagash out of range of unbinds. I took first turn to allow myself to cast freely, and took the centre objective with a wall of Zombies, Blood Knights then Nagash and the White King, with a unit of Blood Knights on each objective. I then brought on a unit of Blood Knights on a flank and made a 9" charge in to his skeletons, unfortunately they survived on 1 and then regened back up to 5, as he had his Vengorian nearby to put me on -1 to Wound. From this point on the opponent was on the backfoot and I was able to remove his objective turn 3, forcing him to push forward down my flank, however I was able to retake it without re-engaging him so the points carried over, and I went the opposite way with Nagash and took his, so the game was over turn 3. 

 

Overall, I found this list to be really strong. The lack of portals in favour of a unit of zombies was not a problem, as the Zombies were crucial as bodies on objectives, screens, or just a throwaway unit to die early then come back later. I didn't attempt a single hand of dust. I also didn't use Rousing Commander once, as I was never in the right position to use it in the offensive manner I was used to. I could have used it defensively in one game, however in hindsight it wouldn't have made a difference to that game.

The Grave Sand Shard was also largely ineffective, and again was unused in a couple of games, as I was waiting for the "perfect moment". I think I could probably afford to use it earlier in some situations just as an early game buffer.

 

Edited by Liquidsteel
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On 9/27/2021 at 12:35 PM, BaylorCorvette said:

Well folks the Hammerfest GT was this past weekend, a total of 74 people attended (in the quote above you can see some stats on the lists), I went 4-1 and finished 3rd Overall with my Kastelai list. I also won Best Death Player and also best "Chris". The last award was a meme award since the most common player name was Chris, lol. First and Second place were both Daughters of Khaine lists running Morathi and a block of 15 bow Snakes.

Quick Highlight of my games:

-Game 1 was against Bonesplitters running a Rogue Idol and Kragnos on First Blood. Highlight was Rogue Idol getting a triple move spell off and flying across the board. Got Prince Vhordrai down to 4 wounds remaining but on my turn I finished off the Rogue Idol and between the Chalice and Heroic Recovery and the Hunger I got him nearly back to full. Meanwhile due to how I zoned Kragnos out he really only ever saw combat round 2 when he wiped some wolves and then at the end of round 5 when I tabled Bonesplitters and only Kragnos was remaining, the Prince did 15 wounds with just his lance and then the dragon finished him off.

-Game 2 was against Sons of Behemat and was my only loss on Tectonic Interference. It was a Kraken Eater (amulet of destiny), Warstomper (artifact to re-roll his saves) and two units of 3 mini giants. Turn 1 he crashed into my lines which I expected. What I didn't expect was him to roll three 6's in a row to stuff three Blood Knights into a bag! I thought the game was nearly decided top of turn 1. I somehow managed to salvage the turn, got the double turn and made it a game that went into turn 5 where he only had the Kraken Eater left. Ultimately he won by 4 VPs.

-Game 3 was against Seraphon running Lord Kroak on Savage Gains. It was basically a race to see if he could kill me with Magic and shooting before I crashed into his lines. The answer was no he couldn't, lol. I decimated his units and just had too many bodies zoning him out.

-Game 4 was against KO running Flair Pistol for re-roll all hits on all his units against one of mine for 1 turn and Spell in a bottle with Warp Lightning Vortex. He had 1 Ironclad, 2 Frigates and 2 Gunhaulers with support heroes and chaff. This was on Power Struggle. Turn 1 he killed Belladamma and a unit of drive wolves, however I rolled a 5 in the battleshock phase to return a unit of dire wolves which I promptly did on one of his objectives that he left which also resulted in him failing his battle tactic and scoring 0 VPs turn 1. A unit of graveguard with great weapons got a frigate down to 1 wound remaining in one go around and then killed it next turn, some blood knights and a Vengorian Lord killed the other Frigate and from there on I just had bodies on objectives.

-Game 5 was against Big Waagh on Feral Foray and by far the most intense as one might expect at a top table in the final round. The list had a Megaboss on Mawcrusha with Rend -3 artifact and command trait to free mighty destroyers. He also had a unit of 6 Gore-gruntas and a unit of 15 Savage Orruk Arrowboys along with a a few min sized units of Savage Orruks for chaff. We traded blows throughout the game. 90 shots from the Arrowboys having 6s to hit generating an additional hit (from a spell) are no joke! On turn 3 his Mawcrusha came in and did like 25-30 wounds to Prince Vhordrai, killing him. However on the next turn he picked Slay the Warlord as his battle tactic. Knowing this I popped Finest Hour on my Vengorian Lord. At the start of combat my Vengorian Lord had 8 wounds remaining, the Mawcrusha failed to roar at me so I popped all out defense. So I reduced his rend by 1 from the Vengorian Lords ability and then had +2 to my save. I had to make 6 saves against the Boss Gore-hacka at dmg 3 and like 5 saves against the mount that were damage 3 as well. The freaking Vangorian Lord tanked the ****** out of it and didn't fail a single save! He failed the battle tactic which basically secured the victory for me.

-Final Thoughts: As expected, Prince Vhordrai always attracted the attention of my opponent as the primary target, which is exactly what I want. Between having 14 wounds, a 3+ save, the Chalice, and easy Heroic Recovery the Prince can tank a lot. This allows my Vengorian Lord to move up the board with the 2 units of Blood Knights and crash into something very important and pop Rousing Commander. Having two gravesites site near the back corners in my opponents territory but still in range of an objective is KEY! I would just keep a 20 block of zombies in the graves and my opponent either had to baby sit or would forget or not care and then out come the zombies and take an objective. Units coming back at half strength in the battleshock phase is HUGE but not super reliable. It did come in clutch for me twice though.  Belladamma performed really great. Under the Killing Moon is amazing and she was able to shut down enemy magic pretty well. Lycan Curse never really came up huge for me given the opponents I played against. However different opponents (lots of shooting) could be huge. Overall, I am very happy with how the list performed. There were 5 other Soulblight Gravelord lists at this tournament, a few of which were Kastelai (one ran 4 units of BKs and another list ran 5 units of BKs). Even in Kastelai I do not thinking having a ton of BKs is the answer. A single unit of 20 grave guard with Great Weapons without any buffs other than an all out attack is sufficient to destroy or severely cripple things. This list has a bunch of threats and a reasonable amount of bodies and chaff.

Here is my list:
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS
Vengorian Lord (280)**
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Fragment of the Keep
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Prince Vhordrai (455)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

UNITS
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
10 x Dire Wolves (135)*
10 x Dire Wolves (135)**
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)**
20 x Grave Guard (280)*
- Great Wight Blades

CORE BATTALIONS
Battle Regiment*
Battle Regiment**

TOTAL: 1990/2000

WOUNDS: 143

Hammerfest Results.jpg

Took the list I went 4-1 with for a 3rd place overall finish out of 70 people at a GT a few weeks ago to a 14 person local this past weekend. Ended up going 3-0 and finishing second, there was a SoB player that also went 3-0 and scored 1 more tournament point than me to secure the first place finish at the tournament. 

Game 1 was on Survival of the Fittest against a dwarf heavy Cities of Sigmar Tempest Eye list. He was running a death star of 30 irondrakes buffed out the a$$, basically 58 shots hitting and wounding on 2s with -2 rend then the champs anti monster weapon. He also ran 20 Phoneix Guard to screen / hold the center of the map. I squeezed out a win by basically outflanking or putting everything in the graves, minus my heroes and two dire wolf units. As expected he went to the center objective and as a result I pushed to the two side objectives. I then was able to sweep around one flank and mush his irondrakes back so they couldn't contest an objective any more which allowed me to secure the win.

Game 2 was Tooth and Nail against a Legion of Blood list running the super buffed VLoZD (-1 to hit & +1 save) everything else was Skeletons, Grave Guard, Zombies or foot support heroes. Given that you couldn't put ANYTHING in reserve for Tooth and Nail made things interesting for both of us since we were SBGL players that wanted things in the graves. My Army was much faster which allowed me to dictate engagements. The funny thing was my Prince Vhordrai failing a 3" charge with snake eyes and then using a CP to reroll into snake eyes again, that is a 1 in 1,296 chance!!! My Vengorian Lord tanked the heck out of the VLoZD, some Grave Guard and 2 Vamp Lords on foot for four combat rounds only taking 5 wounds (Fragment of the Keep + Reduce Rend by 1 is amazing!) Anyways I was able to be more aggressive and control the board which gave me the win.

Game 3 was Savage Gains against Vykros Dynasty. I went from never having played against SBGL to having two matches in a row. My opponent I knew really well and he's a great player so it was a fun game that tested both of us (he finished 6th (with a Tzeentch Archaon list) in the 70 person GT that I finished 3rd in . His list was Belladamma, two units of Grave Guard, some wolves, zombies, Necromancer, foot Vampire Lord and allied in was the named Gate Breaker Mega Gargant mercenary. Again the Vengorian Lord came up huge. In about 4 rounds of combat the Gate Breaker was only able to kill a single Blood Knight and put a few wounds on some other things. Fragment of the Keep on a Vengorian Lord is so good. Anyways, the game was super close and we ran out of time, so we talked it out. I had recently gotten a double turn which allowed me to sweep his back lines and then we just rolled off to see who got turn 5 (I did) and we both agreed I would have won.

So another solid showing for this list. I will likely be taking it to the Austin GT hosted by GW in November.

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7 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Babe, wake up new Vampire Lord just dropped:

 

woooo! I know it's just a special model for Warhammer Day. BUT wouldn't it be cool if it was a second wave of SBGL, with her leading the new elite foot vampire infantry!? Maybe supported by skeleton archers!

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48 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

woooo! I know it's just a special model for Warhammer Day. BUT wouldn't it be cool if it was a second wave of SBGL, with her leading the new elite foot vampire infantry!? Maybe supported by skeleton archers!

I'm just happy that SBGL are really a fully supported part of the setting now. Not a kinda shaky holdover like Legions of Nagash sometimes seemed to be.

43 minutes ago, Wordy9th said:

What’re we saying? Legion of blood?

She looks sort of Carstinian to me with the bald head.

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