AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

9 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

@Neil Arthur Hotep thanks for that, though when you say wards can't stack, bodyguard saves aren't wards, so necro, gorslav, Bella all still get a ward plus a bodyguard. 

The newest FAQ from earlier this month has ruled that bodyguard abilities are to be treated like wards, so that's no longer the case.

[Liquidsteel]

36 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The newest FAQ from earlier this month has ruled that bodyguard abilities are to be treated like wards, so that's no longer the case.

That's not strictly correct, the first FAQ did address this, however the FAQ to the FAQ removed it and replaced it with different responses.

Currently, all abilities that attempt to Negate a Wound are Wards.

Additionally, wounds that are created as a result of negating a wound (Nagash, Archaon, Hearthguard) cannot be negated, nor may wounds suffered following a dice roll where a part of the roll is attempting to negate (Stormcast Praetors, it's a Bodyguard and Ward combined).

Bodyguard abilities such as Belladamma, Necro and other armies e.g. Lumineth Bladelords do not negate, they re-allocate, and so you are free to take a Ward roll, but only once (so you can't Ward - Bodyguard - Ward).

 

 

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Liquidsteel said:

That's not strictly correct, the first FAQ did address this, however the FAQ to the FAQ removed it and replaced it with different responses.

Currently, all abilities that attempt to Negate a Wound are Wards.

Additionally, wounds that are created as a result of negating a wound (Nagash, Archaon, Hearthguard) cannot be negated, nor may wounds suffered following a dice roll where a part of the roll is attempting to negate (Stormcast Praetors, it's a Bodyguard and Ward combined).

Bodyguard abilities such as Belladamma, Necro and other armies e.g. Lumineth Bladelords do not negate, they re-allocate, and so you are free to take a Ward roll, but only once (so you can't Ward - Bodyguard - Ward).

I'll have to look at it again more closely. I have previously seen several people claim that bodyguards and wards no longer stack at all, but if they do then everything gets a little bit tougher

For me personally, though, the Necromancer's bodyguard ability has always been a bit of a nonbo (a not-combo) when he's supporting skeletons. I usually have him there to help boost the defense of a big skeleton warrior blob, but he ends up taking skeletons off the board because of his bodyguard ability instead. I've never been quite happy with that interaction.

[djrodriguez123]

Really trying to make a 40 BK army work.  Having troubles with what heroes to take with the 440Pts left over. The options are a VLOZD, vengorian lord and radukar the wolf/V lord, or Bella and Wright king on steed. Anyone got some thoughts or played a list with similar amount of BKs??

 

…….FAQ, yes I own 40, can show proof lol

Edited September 22, 2021 by djrodriguez123

[Leshoyadut]

Woops. Disregard. Refreshed the previous page to check for new posts and didn't notice the new page of people already answering that. My bad.

 

12 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

For me personally, though, the Necromancer's bodyguard ability has always been a bit of a nonbo (a not-combo) when he's supporting skeletons. I usually have him there to help boost the defense of a big skeleton warrior blob, but he ends up taking skeletons off the board because of his bodyguard ability instead. I've never been quite happy with that interaction.

Personally, I'm still fine with that. If the skeletons die to the Necromancer passing shooting wounds, then the Necro just uses Deathly Invocation and Invigorating Aura to get d3+3 of them back. If they die to the Necromancer taking melee hits (which is awkward if it's positioned that badly, but it can and will happen sometimes despite our best efforts), then they're still getting the chance to come back with a fighting activation that turn. Actually feels like it works out really well, in my opinion.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Leshoyadut

[Kaizennus]

After doing quite well with Vyrkos over the last few months I've switched to playing around with LoN and in particular, a bit of a spell casting castle list. In these lists I've been taking a V.Lord with Morbheg's Claw and a Necromancer with the Tome and corpse cart with the +1 to cast buff. Having a +3 to cast on your LoN wizards, sometimes including Mannfred if he's hanging around as a support bubble, is pretty nice. Of course, points get tight in these kinds of lists so I've also been trying out forgoing skeletons in favor of Zombies (because of the corpse cart). 

Not sure if it's better than my Vyrkos  lists, but they've been fun to play.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

14 hours ago, djrodriguez123 said:

Really trying to make a 40 BK army work.  Having troubles with what heroes to take with the 440Pts left over. The options are a VLOZD, vengorian lord and radukar the wolf/V lord, or Bella and Wright king on steed. Anyone got some thoughts or played a list with similar amount of BKs??

I'd probably go with a Vengorian Lord and Vampire Lord.

The Vengorian to is very sturdy monster hero that can give you Rousing Commander reliably without dying too quickly and enhances the defense of your Blood Knights.

The Vampire Lord is an easy source of +1 attacks. He can just run behind the Blood Knights all game long and buff their offense.

[Liquidsteel]

49 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I'd probably go with a Vengorian Lord and Vampire Lord.

The Vengorian to is very sturdy monster hero that can give you Rousing Commander reliably without dying too quickly and enhances the defense of your Blood Knights.

The Vampire Lord is an easy source of +1 attacks. He can just run behind the Blood Knights all game long and buff their offense.

Vampire Lord can only buff Summonable units, unfortunately. So can't give +1 attack to Blood Knights. Radukar the Wolf can, however, but requires a charge.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Liquidsteel said:

Vampire Lord can only buff Summonable units, unfortunately. So can't give +1 attack to Blood Knights. Radukar the Wolf can, however, but requires a charge.

Good catch. I have to admit I mostly run summonable units and rarely run a Vampire Lord

I guess in that case I would say bring the wolf, because basically nothing else makes sense. I guess there is the option of a VLoZD instead of the Vengorian. Or, like, two units of Fell Bats or two Corpse Carts. I personally don't really like lists with only a single hero, but then again I would not have built a 40 Blood Knight list to being with, I suppose.

[Liquidsteel]

16 hours ago, djrodriguez123 said:

Really trying to make a 40 BK army work.  Having troubles with what heroes to take with the 440Pts left over. The options are a VLOZD, vengorian lord and radukar the wolf/V lord, or Bella and Wright king on steed. Anyone got some thoughts or played a list with similar amount of BKs??

 

…….FAQ, yes I own 40, can show proof lol

Does it have to be 40? Would you consider 35? or 30?

Drop another unit from the below and you can add Belladamma.

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Vengorian Lord (280)*
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Radukar the Beast (315)**

Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1960 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
Drops: 2
 

[Holy_Diver]

So the battle of Valpurgis is lost 😅

My last was: VLOZB, Radukar, Belladamma, Necro, 30x skelly, 20x Zombie, 10x Wolves, 20x Grave,1x Cart Brazier, Cogs.

His list: 1x Warstomper, 1x Gate, 2x3 Mancrushers.

Mission was the one with the objectives that moves to the center. So, the thing is: he puts 2 mega in the center, in turn 4, and I haven't the space to put 40 models within 6 of the objective, because he advance and remove my chaffs.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the support, but I missed my chance to convince my friend 😂

[djrodriguez123]

17 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

Does it have to be 40? Would you consider 35? or 30?

Drop another unit from the below and you can add Belladamma.

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Vengorian Lord (280)*
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Radukar the Beast (315)**

Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1960 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
Drops: 2
 

I was thinking. Thoughts?

 

VLOZD

BELLA

35 BKs

[Honk]

11 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

he puts 2 mega in the center, in turn 4

Charging Radukar and 20 gg into a mega should delete it?!? Why ist it still alive turn 4?

There you have it: SoB are just easy mode. too good in casual play. Just throw them on an objective, open up third round of booze and applaud your own brillant tactics 🍺🥳👍

but nonetheless, A+ for effort and good try to bring him back to the dead side. 

[Holy_Diver]

5 hours ago, Honk said:

Charging Radukar and 20 gg into a mega should delete it?!? Why ist it still alive turn 4?

Yep, this is a wise question.

In fact I would like to raise a reflection about slow units in general: if I have to get to charge, but I'm slow (GG move 5" vs Warstomper move 12") how can I position myself without risking being destroyed in his turn?
The first answer will be screens, but 20 zombies were in front of 30 skeletons, 10 wolves on one side and 10 wolves summoned by radukar on the other, both taking objs. End of the screens.

[Honk]

1 minute ago, Holy_Diver said:

but 20 zombies were in front of 30 skeletons

There ya go… got all tangled up during movement. That ain’t happening if you only have two models on the board 🥳

Maybe Bloodknights would have been better 🧐 more magical debuffing 🧙‍♀️ or 2x bats as cheap mobile screens work better that a wolfpack aaaand the scenario where the real deal is brokered on one objective certainly favors SoB.
That’s why I think they are easy mode

[BaylorCorvette]

On 9/16/2021 at 9:15 AM, BaylorCorvette said:

In other news, I am preparing for a two day tournament down here in Houston, TX. I will be playing a Kastelai list which I've played at a single local tournament and ended up going 2-1 with. Over 80 people are signed up for this GT and here are some stats (lists are not public yet but the GT host posted these):

Armies

8 Sons of Behemat

7 Seraphon

6 Stormcast Eternals

6 Soulblight Gravelords

6 Daughters of Khaine

6 Ogor Mawtribes

5 Ossiarch Bonereapers

4 Orruk Warclans (2 Ironjawz, 1 Bonesplitterz, 1 Big Waaagh)

3 Flesh Eater Courts

3 Maggotkin of Nurgle

3 Kharadron Overlords

3 Nighthaunt

3 Skaventide

3 Idoneth Deepkin

2 Gloomspite Gitz

2 Disciples of Tzeentch

2 Legion of the First Prince

2 Lumineth Realm-Lords

1 Fyreslayers

1 Beasts of Chaos

1 Blades of Khorne

1 Slaves to Darkness

1 Hedonites of Slaanesh

1 Cities of Sigmar

Notable characters:

6 Morathi/The Shadow Queen

5 Gotrek Gurnisson

3 Yndrasta

3 Nagash

3 Kragnos

3 Lord Kroak

3 Be’lakor

3 Prince Vhordrai

2 Archaon

2 Mannfred

2 Arkhan the Black

2 Katakros

1 Teclis

Total number of Mega-Gargants: 21

Average Wounds (all lists):

116.125

Highest Wound Total:

183 (Big Waaagh)

177 (Gloomspite)

161 (Skaventide)

Lowest Wound Total:

72 (Tzeentch)

74 (Tzeentch)

76 (Ossiarchs)

Average Drops (all lists):

5.54

Highest Drop Total:

19 (Skaven)

15 (Beasts of Chaos)

14 (Stormcast)

Lowest Drop Total:

8 One Drop Lists

12 Two Drop Lists

13 Three Drop Lists

Well folks the Hammerfest GT was this past weekend, a total of 74 people attended (in the quote above you can see some stats on the lists), I went 4-1 and finished 3rd Overall with my Kastelai list. I also won Best Death Player and also best "Chris". The last award was a meme award since the most common player name was Chris, lol. First and Second place were both Daughters of Khaine lists running Morathi and a block of 15 bow Snakes.

Quick Highlight of my games:

-Game 1 was against Bonesplitters running a Rogue Idol and Kragnos on First Blood. Highlight was Rogue Idol getting a triple move spell off and flying across the board. Got Prince Vhordrai down to 4 wounds remaining but on my turn I finished off the Rogue Idol and between the Chalice and Heroic Recovery and the Hunger I got him nearly back to full. Meanwhile due to how I zoned Kragnos out he really only ever saw combat round 2 when he wiped some wolves and then at the end of round 5 when I tabled Bonesplitters and only Kragnos was remaining, the Prince did 15 wounds with just his lance and then the dragon finished him off.

-Game 2 was against Sons of Behemat and was my only loss on Tectonic Interference. It was a Kraken Eater (amulet of destiny), Warstomper (artifact to re-roll his saves) and two units of 3 mini giants. Turn 1 he crashed into my lines which I expected. What I didn't expect was him to roll three 6's in a row to stuff three Blood Knights into a bag! I thought the game was nearly decided top of turn 1. I somehow managed to salvage the turn, got the double turn and made it a game that went into turn 5 where he only had the Kraken Eater left. Ultimately he won by 4 VPs.

-Game 3 was against Seraphon running Lord Kroak on Savage Gains. It was basically a race to see if he could kill me with Magic and shooting before I crashed into his lines. The answer was no he couldn't, lol. I decimated his units and just had too many bodies zoning him out.

-Game 4 was against KO running Flair Pistol for re-roll all hits on all his units against one of mine for 1 turn and Spell in a bottle with Warp Lightning Vortex. He had 1 Ironclad, 2 Frigates and 2 Gunhaulers with support heroes and chaff. This was on Power Struggle. Turn 1 he killed Belladamma and a unit of drive wolves, however I rolled a 5 in the battleshock phase to return a unit of dire wolves which I promptly did on one of his objectives that he left which also resulted in him failing his battle tactic and scoring 0 VPs turn 1. A unit of graveguard with great weapons got a frigate down to 1 wound remaining in one go around and then killed it next turn, some blood knights and a Vengorian Lord killed the other Frigate and from there on I just had bodies on objectives.

-Game 5 was against Big Waagh on Feral Foray and by far the most intense as one might expect at a top table in the final round. The list had a Megaboss on Mawcrusha with Rend -3 artifact and command trait to free mighty destroyers. He also had a unit of 6 Gore-gruntas and a unit of 15 Savage Orruk Arrowboys along with a a few min sized units of Savage Orruks for chaff. We traded blows throughout the game. 90 shots from the Arrowboys having 6s to hit generating an additional hit (from a spell) are no joke! On turn 3 his Mawcrusha came in and did like 25-30 wounds to Prince Vhordrai, killing him. However on the next turn he picked Slay the Warlord as his battle tactic. Knowing this I popped Finest Hour on my Vengorian Lord. At the start of combat my Vengorian Lord had 8 wounds remaining, the Mawcrusha failed to roar at me so I popped all out defense. So I reduced his rend by 1 from the Vengorian Lords ability and then had +2 to my save. I had to make 6 saves against the Boss Gore-hacka at dmg 3 and like 5 saves against the mount that were damage 3 as well. The freaking Vangorian Lord tanked the ****** out of it and didn't fail a single save! He failed the battle tactic which basically secured the victory for me.

-Final Thoughts: As expected, Prince Vhordrai always attracted the attention of my opponent as the primary target, which is exactly what I want. Between having 14 wounds, a 3+ save, the Chalice, and easy Heroic Recovery the Prince can tank a lot. This allows my Vengorian Lord to move up the board with the 2 units of Blood Knights and crash into something very important and pop Rousing Commander. Having two gravesites site near the back corners in my opponents territory but still in range of an objective is KEY! I would just keep a 20 block of zombies in the graves and my opponent either had to baby sit or would forget or not care and then out come the zombies and take an objective. Units coming back at half strength in the battleshock phase is HUGE but not super reliable. It did come in clutch for me twice though.  Belladamma performed really great. Under the Killing Moon is amazing and she was able to shut down enemy magic pretty well. Lycan Curse never really came up huge for me given the opponents I played against. However different opponents (lots of shooting) could be huge. Overall, I am very happy with how the list performed. There were 5 other Soulblight Gravelord lists at this tournament, a few of which were Kastelai (one ran 4 units of BKs and another list ran 5 units of BKs). Even in Kastelai I do not thinking having a ton of BKs is the answer. A single unit of 20 grave guard with Great Weapons without any buffs other than an all out attack is sufficient to destroy or severely cripple things. This list has a bunch of threats and a reasonable amount of bodies and chaff.

Here is my list:
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS
Vengorian Lord (280)**
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Fragment of the Keep
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Prince Vhordrai (455)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

UNITS
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
10 x Dire Wolves (135)*
10 x Dire Wolves (135)**
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)**
20 x Grave Guard (280)*
- Great Wight Blades

CORE BATTALIONS
Battle Regiment*
Battle Regiment**

TOTAL: 1990/2000

WOUNDS: 143

[Nevvermore]

nvm

Edited September 27, 2021 by Nevvermore

[Nevvermore]

So this is the list I’m thinking of taking to a tournament. Not to win, but to have fun and not be tabled. As far as models go, the ones I could sub in are a Mega-Gargant, a Necromancer, some Black Knights and the Cursed City box. I was going to take the Mega Gargant for fun but man it’s not worth it compared to what I have in there now. I was going back and forth between the Necromancer and Vampire Lord until I switched from LoN to Vyrkos and a Vampire Lord now seemed a given, what do you guys and girls think?

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Ghyran
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380)**
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)**
- General
- Deathlance
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)**
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)**
- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate

Battleline
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)*
- Reinforced x 2
20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)*
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Dire Wolves (135)**

Units
20 x Grave Guard (280)*
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Hunters of the Heartlands
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Spell

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
Drops: 8
 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Nevvermore

[NearlyHeadlessNickAOS]

6 hours ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Well folks the Hammerfest GT was this past weekend, a total of 74 people attended (in the quote above you can see some stats on the lists), I went 4-1 and finished 3rd Overall with my Kastelai list. I also won Best Death Player and also best "Chris". The last award was a meme award since the most common player name was Chris, lol. First and Second place were both Daughters of Khaine lists running Morathi and a block of 15 bow Snakes.

Quick Highlight of my games:

-Game 1 was against Bonesplitters running a Rogue Idol and Kragnos on First Blood. Highlight was Rogue Idol getting a triple move spell off and flying across the board. Got Prince Vhordrai down to 4 wounds remaining but on my turn I finished off the Rogue Idol and between the Chalice and Heroic Recovery and the Hunger I got him nearly back to full. Meanwhile due to how I zoned Kragnos out he really only ever saw combat round 2 when he wiped some wolves and then at the end of round 5 when I tabled Bonesplitters and only Kragnos was remaining, the Prince did 15 wounds with just his lance and then the dragon finished him off.

-Game 2 was against Sons of Behemat and was my only loss on Tectonic Interference. It was a Kraken Eater (amulet of destiny), Warstomper (artifact to re-roll his saves) and two units of 3 mini giants. Turn 1 he crashed into my lines which I expected. What I didn't expect was him to roll three 6's in a row to stuff three Blood Knights into a bag! I thought the game was nearly decided top of turn 1. I somehow managed to salvage the turn, got the double turn and made it a game that went into turn 5 where he only had the Kraken Eater left. Ultimately he won by 4 VPs.

-Game 3 was against Seraphon running Lord Kroak on Savage Gains. It was basically a race to see if he could kill me with Magic and shooting before I crashed into his lines. The answer was no he couldn't, lol. I decimated his units and just had too many bodies zoning him out.

-Game 4 was against KO running Flair Pistol for re-roll all hits on all his units against one of mine for 1 turn and Spell in a bottle with Warp Lightning Vortex. He had 1 Ironclad, 2 Frigates and 2 Gunhaulers with support heroes and chaff. This was on Power Struggle. Turn 1 he killed Belladamma and a unit of drive wolves, however I rolled a 5 in the battleshock phase to return a unit of dire wolves which I promptly did on one of his objectives that he left which also resulted in him failing his battle tactic and scoring 0 VPs turn 1. A unit of graveguard with great weapons got a frigate down to 1 wound remaining in one go around and then killed it next turn, some blood knights and a Vengorian Lord killed the other Frigate and from there on I just had bodies on objectives.

-Game 5 was against Big Waagh on Feral Foray and by far the most intense as one might expect at a top table in the final round. The list had a Megaboss on Mawcrusha with Rend -3 artifact and command trait to free mighty destroyers. He also had a unit of 6 Gore-gruntas and a unit of 15 Savage Orruk Arrowboys along with a a few min sized units of Savage Orruks for chaff. We traded blows throughout the game. 90 shots from the Arrowboys having 6s to hit generating an additional hit (from a spell) are no joke! On turn 3 his Mawcrusha came in and did like 25-30 wounds to Prince Vhordrai, killing him. However on the next turn he picked Slay the Warlord as his battle tactic. Knowing this I popped Finest Hour on my Vengorian Lord. At the start of combat my Vengorian Lord had 8 wounds remaining, the Mawcrusha failed to roar at me so I popped all out defense. So I reduced his rend by 1 from the Vengorian Lords ability and then had +2 to my save. I had to make 6 saves against the Boss Gore-hacka at dmg 3 and like 5 saves against the mount that were damage 3 as well. The freaking Vangorian Lord tanked the ****** out of it and didn't fail a single save! He failed the battle tactic which basically secured the victory for me.

-Final Thoughts: As expected, Prince Vhordrai always attracted the attention of my opponent as the primary target, which is exactly what I want. Between having 14 wounds, a 3+ save, the Chalice, and easy Heroic Recovery the Prince can tank a lot. This allows my Vengorian Lord to move up the board with the 2 units of Blood Knights and crash into something very important and pop Rousing Commander. Having two gravesites site near the back corners in my opponents territory but still in range of an objective is KEY! I would just keep a 20 block of zombies in the graves and my opponent either had to baby sit or would forget or not care and then out come the zombies and take an objective. Units coming back at half strength in the battleshock phase is HUGE but not super reliable. It did come in clutch for me twice though.  Belladamma performed really great. Under the Killing Moon is amazing and she was able to shut down enemy magic pretty well. Lycan Curse never really came up huge for me given the opponents I played against. However different opponents (lots of shooting) could be huge. Overall, I am very happy with how the list performed. There were 5 other Soulblight Gravelord lists at this tournament, a few of which were Kastelai (one ran 4 units of BKs and another list ran 5 units of BKs). Even in Kastelai I do not thinking having a ton of BKs is the answer. A single unit of 20 grave guard with Great Weapons without any buffs other than an all out attack is sufficient to destroy or severely cripple things. This list has a bunch of threats and a reasonable amount of bodies and chaff.

Here is my list:
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS
Vengorian Lord (280)**
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Fragment of the Keep
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Prince Vhordrai (455)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

UNITS
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
10 x Dire Wolves (135)*
10 x Dire Wolves (135)**
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)**
20 x Grave Guard (280)*
- Great Wight Blades

CORE BATTALIONS
Battle Regiment*
Battle Regiment**

TOTAL: 1990/2000

WOUNDS: 143

I really appreciate the write up! 4-1 is fantastic and you deserve to be proud. I love that you mentioned the 6 inch pile in command ability because I feel like that really goes under the radar with Bella. I think I like it even more than Lycancurse. It seems your list may struggle against heavy mortal output such as the new Kruleboys and LRL but you were able to take on Seraphon who can usually do that in spades. Recently I have played everything from 4 Foxes to 50 Sentinels. Do you find the -1 to wound in melee is better than the 5+ FNP for a turn? It seems like such great utility to have against an alpha with shooting or combat but especially if the opponent tries to sent 30+ sentinels your way.

 

[TheArborealWalrus]

Another off the wall question for the hive mind. I was looking at trying my hand at a vengorian lord, but I'm having difficulty theming it with my vampire coast army. My only idea is a mer wyrm ridden by a lord, but I am willing to consider alternatives. (especially since I haven't found any appropriate conversion models) 

So yeah. TLDR: Vampire coast vengorian ideas? Models to start the conversions with would be extra bonus internet cool points from me.

Thanks, hope you have a good week.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

32 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Another off the wall question for the hive mind. I was looking at trying my hand at a vengorian lord, but I'm having difficulty theming it with my vampire coast army. My only idea is a mer wyrm ridden by a lord, but I am willing to consider alternatives. (especially since I haven't found any appropriate conversion models) 

So yeah. TLDR: Vampire coast vengorian ideas? Models to start the conversions with would be extra bonus internet cool points from me.

Thanks, hope you have a good week.

The Merwyrm would definitely be a cool monster to build a Vengorian Lord out of, but the Merwyrm is on a 120mm base while the Vengorian is on an 80mm. That seems difficult to fit. Plus, the availability of Merwyrm models is not exactly great.

Maybe the Arkhelian King or Eidolon of Mathlann from the Idoneth Deepkin range are worth a look? They seem about the rigth size. Fyreslayers Magmadroths also have a bit of a deep sea dragon look to them and might be worth considering. Or the Cities of Sigmar Kharibdyss.

[BaylorCorvette]

13 hours ago, NearlyHeadlessNickAOS said:

I really appreciate the write up! 4-1 is fantastic and you deserve to be proud. I love that you mentioned the 6 inch pile in command ability because I feel like that really goes under the radar with Bella. I think I like it even more than Lycancurse. It seems your list may struggle against heavy mortal output such as the new Kruleboys and LRL but you were able to take on Seraphon who can usually do that in spades. Recently I have played everything from 4 Foxes to 50 Sentinels. Do you find the -1 to wound in melee is better than the 5+ FNP for a turn? It seems like such great utility to have against an alpha with shooting or combat but especially if the opponent tries to sent 30+ sentinels your way.

 

Thanks. I've consistently told people that I think at 200 pts Belladamma is one of the best value warscrolls in the book. So many things in her tool kit to use for various situations and is fairly survivable with 9 wounds, getting Look Out Sir and can wound and MW shrug to wolves and if she takes chip damage then I will send her into soft targets to heal with The Hunger.

You're right that high MWs can be devastating against this list but that is the case against more armies than not in AoS and at least SBGL has a 6+ ward. The problem I think my opponents have is prioritizing targets. I built this list to specifically have a ton of threats. You can try and focus down Prince Vhordrai, but it will take a lot of resources and if you don't kill him then he will use the Chalice, Heroic Recovery and likely The Hunger. Belladamma can wound & MW shurg, the Blood Knights are fairly stout and turn 1 I usually keep the Grave Guard and Zombies in the graves. Really IMO the most vulnerable target in my list turn 1 is the Vengorian Lord and he's not super easy to kill. Finally if my opponent tries to focus on one of those units and not the wolves then the wolves get into their lines and tie them up. If they do focus on the wolves then they have to deal with Vhordrai, Blood Knights (likely buffed with Rousing Commander and Under the Killing Moon), a Vengorian Lord and Grave Guard. Also this list operates perfectly fine without Magic. Against the Seraphon player with Kroak I didn't get a lot of my spells off which was fine. If I can get my spells off it is just icing on the cake and really takes the list to the next level.

Relating to the artifact, when the book initially came out I considered the Grave Sand, but after spending more time list building and thinking about it the less I liked it. It is once per game, activates in the Hero Phase, so your opponent could possibly avoid the units under the bubble. The Fragment of the Keep with the -1 To Wound was absolutely clutch in 3 of the 5 games I played, not really coming up much against Seraphon and KO. In other tournaments it has worked very good for me. The way I usually play is Prince Vhordrai charges up one side of the board and I have Grave Guard pop out of the graves on his side and the other side of the board (which is the real threat) I have both units of Blood Knights escorted with the Vengorian Lord who is providing the -1 To Wound bubble, reducing rend by 1 and then supplying Rousing Commander. Usually Belladamma is following them too supplying Under the Killing Moon.

[NearlyHeadlessNickAOS]

48 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Thanks. I've consistently told people that I think at 200 pts Belladamma is one of the best value warscrolls in the book. So many things in her tool kit to use for various situations and is fairly survivable with 9 wounds, getting Look Out Sir and can wound and MW shrug to wolves and if she takes chip damage then I will send her into soft targets to heal with The Hunger.

You're right that high MWs can be devastating against this list but that is the case against more armies than not in AoS and at least SBGL has a 6+ ward. The problem I think my opponents have is prioritizing targets. I built this list to specifically have a ton of threats. You can try and focus down Prince Vhordrai, but it will take a lot of resources and if you don't kill him then he will use the Chalice, Heroic Recovery and likely The Hunger. Belladamma can wound & MW shurg, the Blood Knights are fairly stout and turn 1 I usually keep the Grave Guard and Zombies in the graves. Really IMO the most vulnerable target in my list turn 1 is the Vengorian Lord and he's not super easy to kill. Finally if my opponent tries to focus on one of those units and not the wolves then the wolves get into their lines and tie them up. If they do focus on the wolves then they have to deal with Vhordrai, Blood Knights (likely buffed with Rousing Commander and Under the Killing Moon), a Vengorian Lord and Grave Guard. Also this list operates perfectly fine without Magic. Against the Seraphon player with Kroak I didn't get a lot of my spells off which was fine. If I can get my spells off it is just icing on the cake and really takes the list to the next level.

Relating to the artifact, when the book initially came out I considered the Grave Sand, but after spending more time list building and thinking about it the less I liked it. It is once per game, activates in the Hero Phase, so your opponent could possibly avoid the units under the bubble. The Fragment of the Keep with the -1 To Wound was absolutely clutch in 3 of the 5 games I played, not really coming up much against Seraphon and KO. In other tournaments it has worked very good for me. The way I usually play is Prince Vhordrai charges up one side of the board and I have Grave Guard pop out of the graves on his side and the other side of the board (which is the real threat) I have both units of Blood Knights escorted with the Vengorian Lord who is providing the -1 To Wound bubble, reducing rend by 1 and then supplying Rousing Commander. Usually Belladamma is following them too supplying Under the Killing Moon.

I really appreciate the response! I have been playing with Deepkin for so long and using them for 2 recent events so I am mostly theory crafting right now but there is a huge difference between theory and actual game play and I love hearing about the experiences of others who are actually competing in different events. I am picking up my SBGL army October 8th ready to go and Bella is the piece I am most excited to use. You hit the nail on the head with her (or the nail in the coffin...sorry). For 200 points I struggle to make a list without her. The command ability alone to tie up important units and even have the wolves do a little damage to archers is fantastic. For having so many elite units you also have a solid amount of wounds. I really like this list.

Deep strike potential is also great especially for missions such as savage gains. You can easily keep a few wolves back to stop thing such as Shadowstalkers while denying your opponent the ability to leave his home objective completely un-defended. Grave Guard seem almost an auto keep in the grave site especially when you go second. You are also right regarding everyone is going to struggle against 30-50 sentinels and foxes etc that is a given. My meta is HEAVY SHOOTING so I will have to play around with it. I will post more this coming fall/winter after I have done some events with these guys and share how it is going. There are just so many options with SBGL. From the initial release and all the salt to now what a change :p. 

[BaylorCorvette]

1 hour ago, NearlyHeadlessNickAOS said:

I really appreciate the response! I have been playing with Deepkin for so long and using them for 2 recent events so I am mostly theory crafting right now but there is a huge difference between theory and actual game play and I love hearing about the experiences of others who are actually competing in different events. I am picking up my SBGL army October 8th ready to go and Bella is the piece I am most excited to use. You hit the nail on the head with her (or the nail in the coffin...sorry). For 200 points I struggle to make a list without her. The command ability alone to tie up important units and even have the wolves do a little damage to archers is fantastic. For having so many elite units you also have a solid amount of wounds. I really like this list.

Deep strike potential is also great especially for missions such as savage gains. You can easily keep a few wolves back to stop thing such as Shadowstalkers while denying your opponent the ability to leave his home objective completely un-defended. Grave Guard seem almost an auto keep in the grave site especially when you go second. You are also right regarding everyone is going to struggle against 30-50 sentinels and foxes etc that is a given. My meta is HEAVY SHOOTING so I will have to play around with it. I will post more this coming fall/winter after I have done some events with these guys and share how it is going. There are just so many options with SBGL. From the initial release and all the salt to now what a change :p. 

If your local meta is shooting then I think you def take Belladamma and 1 - 2 units of wolves. Use her spell (could even consider spell portal if you want) to try and spawn some wolves to prevent Unleash Hell and then obviously you take wolves to wound shrug / chaff / fast objective grabbers. My experience from playing against shooting (mostly KO) with this list is that you will take a lot of damage from something. Fortunately there is a lot of redundancy built into this list so if you lose something early it isn't game over. Also being double Battle Regiment this is a two drop list. The average drop list at this event (74 ppl) was between 4-5 drops. All 5 of my games I got to dictate turn order which was significant in how I played the game. It also prevented by KO opponent who was a 3 drop to use his pregame move to Fly High and Warp Lightning Vortex me. 

[NearlyHeadlessNickAOS]

28 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

If your local meta is shooting then I think you def take Belladamma and 1 - 2 units of wolves. Use her spell (could even consider spell portal if you want) to try and spawn some wolves to prevent Unleash Hell and then obviously you take wolves to wound shrug / chaff / fast objective grabbers. My experience from playing against shooting (mostly KO) with this list is that you will take a lot of damage from something. Fortunately there is a lot of redundancy built into this list so if you lose something early it isn't game over. Also being double Battle Regiment this is a two drop list. The average drop list at this event (74 ppl) was between 4-5 drops. All 5 of my games I got to dictate turn order which was significant in how I played the game. It also prevented by KO opponent who was a 3 drop to use his pregame move to Fly High and Warp Lightning Vortex me. 

I will have 2 units of wolves actually so I am definitely thinking that. I think I will stay away from the portal for the simple fact I want more bodies like yourself but the wolves seem just so strong against shooting with Bella. The last two events I played (only one day events mind you) I was a 2 drop and many times ended up not being able to decide the order. There are A LOT of Giants, LRL, DOK and Stormcast/S2D here. My last event I came up against the 4 fox list and 30 sentinels bonanza. Really though that list can take care of most elite units in the game anyway I was just running Deepkin and with forgotten nightmares, it isn't as bad for at least one turn. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by NearlyHeadlessNickAOS