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AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion


RuneBrush

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I'm thinking of running SB for a team event.

Kastelli with Arkhan, Vengorian with Fragment, Manfred and like 3*20 zombies. 

Basically just netlisting from a team event recently.

Question is.. what do you do about Gotrek? In my experience playing OBR, he kills Nagash if he doesn't have Drain on him and you don't get priority.

Debuff him and hope for the best? Moveblock him with Manfred?

 

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Random observation:  The Hunger ability for most vampires, and Neferata's Mortarch of Blood ability all take effect "at the end of the combat phase," while Lady Annika's Kiss of the Blade Proboscian is "a the end of a phase."  Theoretically, you could use Prince Vhordrai's command ability to let her fight in the hero phase, and she would be able to heal if she killed something.

Probably not worth the command point, but I think it's a fun interaction.

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3 hours ago, Obeisance said:

I'm thinking of running SB for a team event.

Kastelli with Arkhan, Vengorian with Fragment, Manfred and like 3*20 zombies. 

Basically just netlisting from a team event recently.

Question is.. what do you do about Gotrek? In my experience playing OBR, he kills Nagash if he doesn't have Drain on him and you don't get priority.

Debuff him and hope for the best? Moveblock him with Manfred?

 

So I ran that list myself at a recent 2 day tournament, but tweaked it to 2 x 10 skellies in order to free up points for the Spell Portal. With Nagash it's honestly so great for power projection, and in fact you can in later turns use another hero to cast it and get a crazy range on Hand of Dust (40" in total).

I didn't face the 1 Gotrek that was there, but I feel that yes I would look to move block with Mannfred, maybe a unit of a chaff if possible. There are two movement blocking spells as well, Spectral Grasp (half normal moves within 3" of a terrain feature) or the Prison of Grief which stops a unit moving that phase on a 5+. Decrepify, Overwhelming Dread and Fading Vigour can also slightly weaken him but still he will be a massive threat if he gets stuck in.

In general I found Fragment of the Keep to be okay, however the main threats were turn 1 shooting from things like Lumineth or a big impact turn. Often they will try to pop your Vengorian or Mannfred turn 1. Have been considering Grave Sand Shard which can be activated to provide a pretty noticeable buff to survivability for one turn (in theory, needs testing).

Mannfred is fun, and his +1/+1 is fantastic combined with Nagash's reroll 1s. I do feel he lacks some punch however, and in most games even the Vengorian does no damage. 

Currently testing Nagash + Vhordrai lists as I work towards Nagash + Blood Knight spam. Only 1 game so far vs Be'Lakor.

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14 hours ago, Belmail said:

I agree the original was a fairly reasonable spell, you had to have a target in range and a buddy even closer, if that was your intent. This new one still only seems good against mega gargants.

It's a big boon for casters that know the whole spell lore anyway, though. Nagash will be happy to have access to situational healing that also deals damage. If you take an extra spell lore enchancement, I think it's pretty reasonable on Mannfred or Neferata as well. Maybe even Belladamma. Definitely an upgrade from before, when it did no damage.

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So, the Warhammer Legends: Grand Alliance Death FAQ brings back Bat Swarms as legends. The keep Cloud of Horror, but the lost their Blood Suckers rule.  You get 2 bases for 80 pts.

Edited by Sersi
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Hmm. Looking at it further.  Cloud of Horror has reduced the range from 12" to 6", but it no longer restricted to the shooting phase only. They lost their Blood Suckers rule; but gained a 6+ save.  So, are they worth it?

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2 hours ago, Gery81 said:

What do you guys think about the new interaction between ward saves and negating wounds, and mortal wounds? Does this makes VLoZD and Vengo lords more desirable (and the amulet of destiny an auto-take)?

It's probably getting fixed very soon, and events are already comping it.

Played two games today and we are ignoring the FAQ.

So I guess just ignore it, but otherwise yes an amuleted VLoZD just got a nice survivability boost.

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16 hours ago, Sersi said:

So, the Warhammer Legends: Grand Alliance Death FAQ brings back Bat Swarms as legends. The keep Cloud of Horror, but the lost their Blood Suckers rule.  You get 2 bases for 80 pts.

 

16 hours ago, Sersi said:

Hmm. Looking at it further.  Cloud of Horror has reduced the range from 12" to 6", but it no longer restricted to the shooting phase only. They lost their Blood Suckers rule; but gained a 6+ save.  So, are they worth it?

Anything in Legends is kinda in limbo, so I would not treat any Legends units as staples in any list I would expect to play regularly. That said, I think the new war scroll is a nice way to use those Cursed City bat swarms. In general, I think you could do worse than 10 wounds, 12" flying move with a - 1 to hit aura for 80 points.

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20 hours ago, Gery81 said:

What do you guys think about the new interaction between ward saves and negating wounds, and mortal wounds? Does this makes VLoZD and Vengo lords more desirable (and the amulet of destiny an auto-take)?

 

18 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

It's probably getting fixed very soon, and events are already comping it.

Played two games today and we are ignoring the FAQ.

So I guess just ignore it, but otherwise yes an amuleted VLoZD just got a nice survivability boost.

Would you guys mind citing/ explaining which part of the FAQ changes how ward saves work? I’ve had a look and can’t seem to find anything. 

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7 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

 

Would you guys mind citing/ explaining which part of the FAQ changes how ward saves work? I’ve had a look and can’t seem to find anything. 

Sorry I see it now: 

Q: In section 14.3 of the core rules, ward rolls are made to negate a wound or mortal wound before it is allocated to a model. However, many units in the game have abilities that trigger when a wound or mortal wound is allocated to a friendly model. Can I use abilities that negate allocated wounds or mortal wounds after a ward roll?
A: Yes.

… So that means you could roll for amulet of destiny and deathless minions? 

 

 

 

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On 8/29/2021 at 12:29 PM, TechnoVampire said:

… So that means you could roll for amulet of destiny and deathless minions? 

Yep. An odd example could be:

  1. A Necromancer, chosing his bodyguard to redirect wounds to skeletons instead of his Ward save:
    Quote

    Q: Some older abilities give ‘bodyguard’ effects (such as ‘Guardians’ on the Vanari Bladelords warscroll or ‘Selfless Protectors’ on the Saurus Guard warscroll) that allow damage that would be allocated to a friendly Hero to be allocated to a different friendly unit. Can I use abilities like this before or after I make ward rolls for that Hero?
    A: No. These ‘bodyguard’ abilities are used instead of making a ward roll for a wound or mortal wound that would be allocated to that Hero.

  2. The skeletons could be on a Mystical Terrain using their Ward save 6+

    Quote

    Q: Some rules allow you to transfer a wound allocated to one unit to a different unit. If both units have a ward, do I get to make a ward roll for each one?
    A: No, you only make the ward roll for the unit that the wound is transferred to.

  3.  And then Deathless minions for another 6+

    Quote

    Q: In section 14.3 of the core rules, ward rolls are made to negate a wound or mortal wound before it is allocated to a model. However, many units in the game have abilities that trigger when a wound or mortal wound is allocated to a friendly model. Can I use abilities that negate allocated wounds or mortal wounds after a ward roll?
    A: Yes.

  4. Use any other FNP saves that doesn't have "before you allocate...".
Edited by Beliman
Fixe'd
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Went to my first AoS tournament today! Managed to get 3-0 and come in 1st place at a 32 person event with my Legion of Night list I posted a few pages earlier.

Super happy with how the army played and can't wait to get some more competitive AoS games in!

 

EDIT - Please note I was using great wight blades on the grave guard!

240967294_10165952378345405_4687332056544554793_n.jpg.e670dcef9a930da1eb0dcfebfdba6e65.jpg

Edited by Vik Vijay
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50 minutes ago, Vik Vijay said:

Went to my first AoS tournament today! Managed to get 3-0 and come in 1st place at a 32 person event with my Legion of Night list I posted a few pages earlier.

Super happy with how the army played and can't wait to get some more competitive AoS games in!

240967294_10165952378345405_4687332056544554793_n.jpg.e670dcef9a930da1eb0dcfebfdba6e65.jpg

Congrats! Can you give a rundown of your games?

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50 minutes ago, Vik Vijay said:

Went to my first AoS tournament today! Managed to get 3-0 and come in 1st place at a 32 person event with my Legion of Night list I posted a few pages earlier.

Super happy with how the army played and can't wait to get some more competitive AoS games in!

240967294_10165952378345405_4687332056544554793_n.jpg.e670dcef9a930da1eb0dcfebfdba6e65.jpg

Well done! Could you please give us a quick summary on how you play your list? What role do you give to each of your units?

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On 8/29/2021 at 11:56 AM, Beliman said:

Yep. An odd example could be:

  1. A Necromancer, chosing his bodyguard to redirect wounds to skeletons isntead of his Ward save:
  2. The skeletons could be on a Mystical Terrain using their Ward save 6+

  3.  And then Deathless minions for another 6+

  4. Use any other FNP saves that doesn't have "before you allocate...".

Thanks, this is helpful! 
 

I’m using a necromancer in my list, do you know if you fail the bodyguard roll, can you still use deathless minions to prevent the wound on the necromancer afterwards? 
 

Thanks. 

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3 hours ago, TechnoVampire said:

Thanks, this is helpful! 
 

I’m using a necromancer in my list, do you know if you fail the bodyguard roll, can you still use deathless minions to prevent the wound on the necromancer afterwards? 
 

Thanks. 

Yes. Deathless minions comes after "before you allocate...", so, diferent timing that Ward/bodyguard.

Btw, my first quote should be another FAQ (the new one that you must chose if you want to use a Bodyguard or a Ward save for your attacked dude).

I will fix it later.  Fixed!!!

Edited by Beliman
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2 hours ago, Beliman said:

Yes. Deathless minions comes after "before you allocate...", so, diferent timing that Ward/bodyguard.

Btw, my first quote should be another FAQ (the new one that you must chose if you want to use a Bodyguard or a Ward save for your attacked dude).

I will fix it later.

That makes sense, thanks again 👍

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19 hours ago, Nqshou said:

Well done! Could you please give us a quick summary on how you play your list? What role do you give to each of your units?

 

19 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

Congrats! Can you give a rundown of your games?

 

Hey guys, thank you! I've only played 3 games of AoS at all prior to this tournament, so bear with me on the details! (I have a lot of competitive 40k experience though)

The list was a 2-drop and I got to pick 1st turn priority all 3 games. I chose to go second in each game. The army was split into 2 battle regiments and I would deploy the VLoZD and the 2 units of dire wolves as a screen along with 2 units of zombies in gravesites for my first drop. Then the rest of the army on the second drop (BK's and Manny) with the grave guard in the grave site.

Game 1: Thunder Lizard Seraphon + Kroak - Loads of shooting and mortal wound output, bit of a worrying match up for the first game. Managed to sit myself onto the objectives and just grind him down on both primary + secondary points.

Game 2: Ogor Mawtribes - This one was tighter on Veins of Ghur as I couldn't just sit on the objectives early game, so I split my army into 2 halves and played defensively, killing anything that came too far forward. Once the objectives were down I put the zombies + grave guard down out of the gravesites onto them and held on to a lead into the end of the game.

Game 3: Beastclaw Raiders - 3 stonehorns - Easier game for me now that I'd had some practice into it! On my T1 I set up a big screen of dire wolves, and put my grave guard behind them between 2.1-2.5" from the front of the dire wolves. So that when he charged into my dire wolves, his 2" reach doesn't hit my grave guard, he pounds the dire wolves, and I pulled casualties to open a space for the grave guard who are within 3" to pile into a Stonehorn, and they picked one up. On my turn the grave guard picked up another one, with me re-establishing the screen with some zombies, and then on the turn after the grave guard picked up the next one! Grave guard MVP!

---------

My thoughts on the list are that I really liked the 2x20 zombies coming out of the gravesites, their damage is negligible, but 2-3 mortal wounds here and there is nice. The main thing is they just clog up the board, give me a squishy screen that I can easily pull in strategic ways to allow my harder hitting units to counter punch efficiently.

Mannfred was incredible, his +1/+1 command ability is a huge force multiplier and he's a great mobile screen. I made an error of leaving him in combat on game 2 against 4 iron guts, I ended up failing a silly number of saves and had him left on 1 wound, shouldn't have even risked it and just made his teleport move, but I'll know for the future!

The VLoZD was really nice and tanky, his damage output is swingy even in Mannfred's aura. Unholy impetus was useless, I just couldn't manipulate a situation to make it trigger. 

Going forward I'd like to make a few changes to the list. I think I can squeeze in more damage output and utility by switching to Kastelai and running a Vengorian Lord instead of the VLoZD, rousing commander fits into the list a lot more elegantly than unholy impetus and the fragment of the keep for a -1 to wound aura is a really tasty relic. I also want to get Belladama in there for the exploding 6's to hit aura, which is another strong force multiplier for the entire army and can give me a bit more magical output. 

I've attached my updated list - would love to hear all your thoughts on anything I've written above! 

Vik

Screenshot 2021-08-30 at 18.17.19.png

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