AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[RuneBrush]

23 hours ago, Sception said:

EDIT: shoot, the vargskyr isn't a monster.  Darn.  I could have sworn it was.  Oh, well.

Was just looking at the warscroll myself and realised they weren't a monster - also just realised they lost their Terrifying Howl ability from the Cursed City warscroll booklet!  Was thinking they'd be a great companion for a Terrorgheist 🤦‍♂️

[Malakithe]

List ideas with CC models...GO!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 hours ago, Malakithe said:

List ideas with CC models...GO!

I'm still playing around with ideas, but I think Deadwalker heavy lists have become a real option.l

Small Radukar has built-in synergy with Kosargi Nightguard, giving them +1 attack and gaining a bodyguard ability from them. He also gives out his +1 attack bubble and +1 to wound in Vyrkos, which buffs them further. Since you can now take as many Nightguard as you like, Radukar plus 4 or more looks pretty good!

Gorslav is also a really nice support piece for Deadwalkers. Getting to resurrect a unit of Zombies or Direwolves near him whenever you want is really good for 75 points.

The Corpse Cart also synergizes with Vyrkos. +1 to cast is really nice in an army that already rerolls casts. Both carts seem good, actually.

If I wanted a Deadwalkers list, I'd probably start with Belladamma, Radukar the Wolf and Groslav. At least one unit of 40 Zombies, 4 (or 2x2) Nightguard and one unit of Direwolves, and probably a Corpse Cart. You have a few options from there. Torgillius for the command point chance, VLoZD for general Vyrkos shennenigans, more Zombies...

[will pollock]

had a go at assembling a vyrkos list with mannfred and a VLoZD, curious as to people's thoughts on this 

Vyrkos Lineage

VLoZD with hunter's snare, sangsyron and pinions

mannfred with overwhelming dread

annika

10 x wolves

10 x wolves

10 x wolves

5 x Blood Knights 

5 x blood knights

5 x blood knights

Emerald lifeswarm

 

 

[Andalf]

6 minutes ago, will pollock said:

had a go at assembling a vyrkos list with mannfred and a VLoZD, curious as to people's thoughts on this 

Vyrkos Lineage

VLoZD with hunter's snare, sangsyron and pinions

mannfred with overwhelming dread

annika

10 x wolves

10 x wolves

10 x wolves

5 x Blood Knights 

5 x blood knights

5 x blood knights

Emerald lifeswarm

 

 

It looks so... Vyrkos.

[will pollock]

just rly like the cast reroll with mannfred also to get the lifeswarm off

[Alfascozzesi]

Just thought that’s the exact list I was talking to my son about !!!

 

[Enwolved]

Mannfred cant reroll his casting rolls since hes missing the Vyrkos Keyword

[Alfascozzesi]

27 minutes ago, Andalf said:

It looks so... Vyrkos.

That said it has two generals and all the battle line is wolves so pretty Vyrkos, just with a bit of hit (Ghur) about it.

 Good point about the casting.

[Andalf]

I would swap Mannfred for Belladamma and a Spellportal every time in this list.  Her command ability makes scoring the centre of the table really hard on your opponent. And with all of those Blood Knights and VLoZD you pack plenty of counter attack power.  Lycancurse is game changing tech, and Blood Knights are the best unit in the book for Under the Killing Moon.

The lists where I’ve had nothing but big scary monsters and cavalry have been interesting, and it seems most lists here are Dragon/Mortarch/Blood Knight combos. The armies I’ve played against have eschewed going for the horde style and really doubled down on MSU.  As the games have been progressing through turns 2/3, with the 8 terrain piece limits, you really start to see that two or three of these little 5/10 man squads can actually shut things down, deploying lines and just being 3-6” away from each other and behind.  Redeploy and any heals makes this mechanic even stronger.  If they have any kind of defensive stats like Sequitors or, I hate to admit Stoneguard, they can basically cut huge sections of the board off now.  They support each other a lot better too because now those little MSU buggers have two units ready for a counter charge that doesn’t have a super crowded pile in.  With this being the case most of my Blood Knights have been landing a charge struggling to kill, more than 3, 2 wound models and then dropping the last couple with Riders of Ruin is basically just luck.  In those circumstances you kind of leave little pockets of resistance behind (or get 2 turned...) and make it hard for any of your army to follow them into a hard situation so they tend to go wrecking ball mode and then burn out fast; or you simply can’t Riders of Ruin through your opponent and they get bogged down or pushed back.  
 

I’ve found, my Neferata list, the times I took first turn I was overstretched by turn 2 and was struggling with Battle Tactics.  If I didn’t take first turn I tend to lose/get one of my lynch pins busted up/crowded out by special rules and trapped in my own deployment struggling on the ‘primary’.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Andalf

[Andalf]

15 hours ago, Malakithe said:

List ideas with CC models...GO!

Radukar the Wolf

Annika

Gorslav

Halgrim

Torguillius

Vampire Lord - Spoor Tracker

4 Kosargi Night Guard

3 x 20 Zombies

20 GG w/ Shields

20 GG w/ GW

2 x Vargskyr

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

Alright so while I wait for a chance to snag a VLoZD on the cheap (because i'm not looking to spend the cash on a FEC box) here's my current Kasteli list in the meantime re-purposing a few of VC the models i never sold off from nostalgia:

Vengorian Lord, General

Mannfred

VL (Old Konrad Von Carstein mini)

VL (Vlad Von Carstein)

VL (Isabella Von Carstein)

4x5 blood knights

20 zombies

The list is a holdover until i can get Prince V to replace the 3 vamps and swap Manny for Neffy so for now I'm running Mannfred, his 15ft tall monstergirl gf, their 20 kids, his crazy brother and disappointed parents. I don't expect it to perform well but maybe for the odd mission that really benefit from volume of heroes it'll be nice.

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

disappointed parents

Maybe they’ll roll very good for extra command points 🤔

poor Manny gets haunted by his family, telling him to do better 🤣👍

[Minguillon84]

7 hours ago, will pollock said:

just rly like the cast reroll with mannfred also to get the lifeswarm off

Manfred is legion of night, cant rerroll casts

[Sception]

2 hours ago, Minguillon84 said:

Manfred is legion of night, cant rerroll casts

Yeah, a lot of people seem to be having trouble parsing the subfaction rules.  I've seen comments here and elsewhere about re-rolling casts with mannfred or nagash or necromancers in Vyrkos, outflanking radubeast in LoNight, etc.  TOs are going to need to keep a pretty close eye on that.

[Sharklone]

my 1K list is ready for a tourney end of the month. trying to be as competitive as possible because the prize is a dominion box.

Rousing commander and Fragment of the keep is on the vengorian lord.

 

[Sception]

That looks to be about as mean as could be managed at 1000 points.  The army also looks really nice, especially considering how little time these models gave been out.  Good job!

[Craze]

I had my first 3.0 game yesterday with Gravelords against an StD Ravager list.

My army was:

Vyrkos Dynasty

Belladama

Big Radukar

Wight King on Steed

Vengorian Lord 

Vampire Lord

 

30x Skellies

20x Zombies

10x Dire Wolves

20x Grave Guard

3x Fell Bats

3x Vargheists

 

My takeaways are:

- Radukar hits like a truck.

- Under a Killing Moon + Wight King CA on the Grave Guard turns them into an absolute blender, murdering almost everything

- Vengorian Lord is a really flexible threat. I played him with Sangsyron and the Flaming Weapon spell and between his high move, flying and relatively small base size, he is a very good option for killing medium tanky units, threatening backline objectives only lightly protect etc.

- Skellies are the definition of a tarpit, they survived 3 full rounds of combat against a fully buffed Lord on Karadrak + Lord on Manticore, basically winning me the game.

- Vargheists are meh.

- I will never leave the house without at least one unit of Fell Bats. Fast, cheap, always staying out of range of really dangerous enemies, then in one crucial moment tagging a large blob of Chaos Warriors for preventing them to pile in massively into my Grave Guard.

 

Overall I am really happy with both the 3.0 rules and how Gravelords play. Even though my list was far from refined and was really just a test I felt really comfortable with the many different tools I had at my disposal. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I have done a first draft of a fluffy Vyrkos list that uses the Cursed City models:

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty

Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Hunter's Snare
- Artefact: Sangsyron
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)
- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale
Radukar the Wolf (150)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Torgillius the Chamberlain (115)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Gorslav the Gravekeeper (75)
Kritza, the Rat Prince (95)

Battleline
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)

Units
4 x Kosargi Nightguard (190)
1 x Vargskyr (115)
3 x Fell Bats (75)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 170

 

The play style will probably be a bit like undead Hammerhal, with a bunch of infantry units and lots of heores. The theme here is mostly just "cool models I want to play", but the list has some synergies.

I put in a standard VLoZD general because that guy just seems solid. Captures for 14, flies, charges stuff. Business as usual.

Belladamma is there because she's the boss. Plus she has good rules. One of the Direwolf units will stick to her and engage stuff to lock it into combat.

Radukar the Wolf will form a group with the Nightguard and Torgillus, which should be fairly formidable. Two casts, 23 wounds between Radukar and the Nightguard. 5+ ward on the Nightguard, 4+ on Torgillus. The Nightguard will get 4 attacks at 3+/2+/-1/2 each on the charge if Radukar uses his CA. Radukar gets bodyguarded by the Nightguard, and Torgillus provides a chance at an extra command point in your hero phase and access to the Deathmages lore. Overall, really not a bad group of units apart from their low movement.

Gorslav is there because this list has lots of Deadwalkers. He can bring them back at half for a command point, which is just great. Only works on Zombies and Direwolves, though.

Kritza, the Vargskyr and Fell Bats are in there because I like them. But they should be fairly useful, too, adding a bit of punch, speed and shennenigans to the list.

As for battalions: I'll probably fill one Warlord battalion, then form a Vanguard with the Zombies and Gorslav (allowing the zombies to once-per-game run 6" for free and without a hero nearby, which is good because they can also pile in 6", so they don't need to charge). Then the other troops can go into Hunters of the Heartlands or Battle Regiment. The extra enhancement from Warlord will go to extra spells, because nobody in this list can take another artefact.

[swarmofseals]

I could have sworn there was some discussion about rules in the new edition stipulating that units can't go above their maximum size, but I can't find any mention of this in the core rules, FAQs, or pitched battle pack 2021. I could have sworn it was in there but can't find it. I also can't really find many references to maximum unit size anymore in general, and there is certainly no "maximum" size stipulated for zombies except insofar as you can only double reinforce them (but the term "maximum size" is never used).

Anyone know where I can find this?

Also, just curious as to how people are reading the Newly Dead rule, which calls for a roll for models slain by "wounds inflicted". I'm surprised that I haven't seen any arguments about whether this triggers for slain models in general or if it doesn't work for models slain by mortal wounds from the 6's to hit. How are people interpreting this rule generally?

[mystycalchemy]

28 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

I could have sworn there was some discussion about rules in the new edition stipulating that units can't go above their maximum size, but I can't find any mention of this in the core rules, FAQs, or pitched battle pack 2021. I could have sworn it was in there but can't find it. I also can't really find many references to maximum unit size anymore in general, and there is certainly no "maximum" size stipulated for zombies except insofar as you can only double reinforce them (but the term "maximum size" is never used).

Anyone know where I can find this?

Also, just curious as to how people are reading the Newly Dead rule, which calls for a roll for models slain by "wounds inflicted". I'm surprised that I haven't seen any arguments about whether this triggers for slain models in general or if it doesn't work for models slain by mortal wounds from the 6's to hit. How are people interpreting this rule generally?

These are the two relevant FAQ answers for the 2nd part of your question. I dont have the core rules at hand so I can't speak to the "going over starting size" but hopefully this helps

[swarmofseals]

16 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

These are the two relevant FAQ answers for the 2nd part of your question. I dont have the core rules at hand so I can't speak to the "going over starting size" but hopefully this helps

Ahh, I somehow completely missed that second question in the FAQ! I was aware of the first answer and know that zombies can go over starting size, I'm just recalling discussion of how they can go over starting size but not over "max size" and I'm not finding any reference to that second part in the rules, nor am I finding any definitions of what constitutes "max size" in the new ruleset. But given that I missed that FAQ question I wouldn't be surprised at all if I missed something else!

[PlayerJ]

My "Ten Spells" Vyrkos list:

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200) in Command Entourage
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
- Universal Spell Lore: Ghost-mist
Radukar the Beast (315) in Command Entourage
Vengorian Lord (280) in Warlord
- Artefact: Sangsyron
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Pack Alpha
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
Necromancer (125) in Warlord
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Spectral Grasp
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Gorslav the Gravekeeper (85) in Command Entourage 

Battleline
60 x Deadwalker Zombies (345)
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Core Battalions
Warlord
Command Entourage - Magnificent

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Spell

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 163
 

Edited July 6, 2021 by PlayerJ

[idn0971]

7 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

Ahh, I somehow completely missed that second question in the FAQ! I was aware of the first answer and know that zombies can go over starting size, I'm just recalling discussion of how they can go over starting size but not over "max size" and I'm not finding any reference to that second part in the rules, nor am I finding any definitions of what constitutes "max size" in the new ruleset. But given that I missed that FAQ question I wouldn't be surprised at all if I missed something else!

So there is a sidebar by rule 25.3 that says a unit cannot go above it's max unit size. However max unit size is not defined in either the core rules or the faq so it is unclear what it is and what the rule actually does. 

I just emailed the faq team and I suggest all of you do the same to help get clarification on this issue. Their email is AoSFAQ@gwplc.com

Edited July 6, 2021 by idn0971
Added email for faq team

[Okonomiyakimarine]

@PlayerJ I like it, but command entourage needs 3 heroes, so no battle regiment for Gorslav and most units.

 

edit: nevermind, just saw that battalions were listed below… I like it, but unsure if you need that many wolves from the start with the abilities to bring extra.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Okonomiyakimarine