AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[AHexInScarletRed]

56 minutes ago, stus67 said:

What's a solid kastelai core looking like right now? Prince V with a VLoZD buddy and 3 units of x5 Blood Knights? I'm building this army from scratch so I'm looking at what to buy next and kastelai with blood knights seems the most interesting to me. Vyrkos comes in close second.

I already have one unit of Blood Knights and 20 skeletons currently, and I bought a few of the vyrkos characters just cause they look cool, but Radukar seems to be pretty useful regardless of the clan you take.

Prince V & VLoZD I'd probably build like this (I'm in the same boat as you currently):

Prince V

VLoZD 

Necromancer 

30 Skeletons 

3x5 Blood Knights

Fell Bats 

Prismatic Palisade 

Or instead of the Bats and Palisade 10 Wolves. 40 Zombies instead of the Skeletons offer enough room for two units of Fell Bats. Prince V + Vengorian Lord instead of the VLoZD is also an option that gives more board control with Wolves + Bats or Vargheists. I currently have 1 VLoZD, 10 Blood Knights, 10 Wolves. Not sure if I should get another VLoZD or the Vengorian Lord and I'm also not sure on Skeletons vs Zombies. 

e: Radukar is good. I won't field Vyrkos Units in Kastelai, though, as I want to stay true to theme (Vengorian Lord is a stretch already, but I guess they have some at the Crimson Keep). Vyrkos with a VLoZD or Vhordrai (or, as seen on Page 21, both) looks solid, too, because of the good Spells. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by AHexInScarletRed

[Nasrod]

Radukar the Wolf

Anna

Belladamma

 

20 Skellies

20 Zombos

10 Dire Wolves

 

3 Fell Bats

Prismatic Pallisade

 

Vs

 

Liege Kavalos

Boneshaper

 

20 Mortek 

5 Deathriders

 

Crawler

 

Oppo took turn 1. Killed 9 Zombies with the crawler. Got 2 back, ran everything down field with heroes screened. Bella and Wolves took left flank against the Deathriders and Kavalos. Bats took far right flank. 

Doubled and collapsed; the Bats tagged the Mortek brick on a far flank and the Zombies smashee into the front of them. Literally no damage but they were forced to pile in backwards toward the Bats to pile enough attacks in. 

Oppo has seen me play Mortek and has been using them against my Slaanesh, but had never played against an attrition based list, or been properly zoned off objectives. Was a great learning experience. At the bottom of turn three I had 12 points to his 5. The only units left were Radukar, Anna, 4 Wolves and Belladamma. He literally only lost his Deathriders, but without them he couldn't threaten to steal. 

A big learning experience for us both. The Skeletons are really pillow fisted, and the Zombies basically need to be taken in blocks of 40. They do feel a bit overtuned as MSU 20. A 20 brick of Skeletons is good for blocking a lane, but you want to maintain a shape that makes it so the opponent's charge will be awkward to pile in with. 

Dire Wolves and Fell Bats are seriously our best units. For real, the Bats just warp so much of a game when the rest of our army is moving 4" on foot. Wolves are a fast tar pit that keeps Belladamma alive. 

I think at 1500 or higher you can start filling your list with more heavy hitters like Chadukar, Vengorian Lord, or VLoZD/Vhord. But at 1000 or less? If I didn't love the sculpt so much, replacing Annika for another pack of 20 Zombies would be pretty much the ideal list. 

[Sharklone]

Anyone had any success with a 1K list? I have a tourney end of July for 3.0. The prize is a dominion box so I'm pretty keen to be competitive.. not so keen i want to abandon kastelai at 1k though haha. 

Im tossing up between a few combos.

Vengorian Lord

5x Blood knights
5x Blood knights
3x Vargheists (potnetially swap for a VL for another hero???

3x Felbats

3x Felbats

 

OR

VLOZD (or vhordrai, not sure if the trait and artefact are worth it over him)

5x blood knights

5 x blood knights

3x fel bats

3x Fel bats

OR

Vengorian Lord
Chadukar the Beast

5x blood knights

5x blood knights

 

I have serious list paralysis and need to decide so I can paint up what I need after my blood knights. Thoughts anyone????

Edited June 21, 2021 by Sharklone

[Scythian]

The Crimson Templars are ready for their dark crusade.

 

[Televiper11]

Taking this LoN list for a potential test drive. Like all the mvt & board control shenanigans coupled to an absolute quick strike Hammer attack:

Mannfred, 380: Fading Vigor

Prince V., 455: Soulpike 

VLoZD, 435: General, Unholy Impetus, Gem, Pinions

3x3 Vargheists, 155 each

10x Skeletons

Cogs, 80

Purple Sun, 50

Extra CP, 50 

(Still playing 2.0)

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

After recently looking at the viability of a bravery bomb in Gravelords, I took a look at the math behind the Lore of Vampires spell Spirit Gale.

Spirit Gale casts on a 5 and targets a unit wholly within 18". You roll 2d6 and check against the target's bravery. If you roll over their bravery, deal mortal wounds equal to the difference. So, for example, if they have bravery 7 and you roll a 9, you deal 2 mortals.

I (and I would assume many other people) initially looked at that and thought it was probably bad. You need to "win" two rolls for the spell to do damage (casting and bravery), and even then how many mortals can you really expect to get out of it? Well, this much:

 

Bravery	Damage
10	0,22
9	0,56
8	1,11
7	1,94
6	2,78
5	3,56
4	4,22
3	4,72
2	5
1	6

 

The average damage of this spell is actually pretty good against low bravery. At bravery 7, it's on average about the same as Arcane Bolt. But the spell has a few notable upsides in Gravelords. First, it comes from the Lore of Vampires, which means it triggers Locus of Shyish (double casts) about 30% of the time, which pretty much means a 30% damage bonus on average. Second, it interacts with the bravery debuff from Animated Horrors (up to -2 for having Deathrattle or Deadwalker units within 6" of the target). For a target at 7 bravery, -2 would push the average damage to ~3,5 (equivalent to 1d6).

There are a few other factors to consider, though, that don't necessarily work in favour of Spirit Gale. For one, the spell is a lot swingier than good old Arcane Bolt. Against a bravery 7 target, it deals the same damage, but will deal no damage at all 58% of the time, but make up for it with the potential to spike way higher (up to 5 wounds). I don't know if this is necessarily a negative. Maybe you value potentially high damage more than consistent, but low damage.

The bigger issue is that there are few units you actually want to target with this spell. A cursory glance will tell you that heroes have around 7 bravery for the most part, but commonly more. All demons and Death heroes sit comfortably at 10 bravery. That takes out a lot of the juicy high-armour targets that you would want to gamble against for a chance at a big mortal wounds payoff. Some good targets exist, like the Leviadon, Stegadon and Ironclad, but you can't necessary expect every army you go up against to have a good target for this spell. However, in the worst case, you can always use it against battleline units, where it will perform decently for the most part.

After doing the math, this spell has gone up in my estimation from "bad" to "situational". Which really describes a lot of the Lore of Vampires spells. I feel better about them now, though, that taking an enhancement for a second spell for all wizards is a possibility. If you can take two spells and all your Vampires already have Pinions (which is still the best spell), then Spirit Gale is worth considering.

[BaylorCorvette]

42 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

After doing the math, this spell has gone up in my estimation from "bad" to "situational". Which really describes a lot of the Lore of Vampires spells. I feel better about them now, though, that taking an enhancement for a second spell for all wizards is a possibility. If you can take two spells and all your Vampires already have Pinions (which is still the best spell), then Spirit Gale is worth considering.

With the change to Arcane Bolt, it is now a decent spell on a combat Hero. You cast it and then set it off at the start of the combat phase. Kind of like a slightly later impact hit. Honestly I think that will be my go to for a VLoZD and possibly even Prince V, if I decide to do an all out attack and "their finest hour" for a turn, otherwise his warscroll spell will be the default. Pinions is still decent too.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

6 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

With the change to Arcane Bolt, it is now a decent spell on a combat Hero. You cast it and then set it off at the start of the combat phase. Kind of like a slightly later impact hit. Honestly I think that will be my go to for a VLoZD and possibly even Prince V, if I decide to do an all out attack and "their finest hour" for a turn, otherwise his warscroll spell will be the default. Pinions is still decent too.

Totally agree. If you think you can get the charge, casting Arcane Bolt or Mystic Shield seems like a good default plan on the VLoZD. Pinions is just to make sure you get where you need to go. I have recently come to realize that my lists have more good spells than I can cast by default. All the dedicated casters have good warscroll spells, and all the combat-casters can try for one of Pinions, Bolt or Shield. Plus Invigorating Aura and endless spells.

That's why I am pretty OK now with taking situational Lore of Vampires/Deathmages spells. They don't need to be part of my game plan, they can just be an occasional bonus when a good opportunity presents itself. And if they double resolve from Locus, that's a nice bonus.

[BaylorCorvette]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Totally agree. If you think you can get the charge, casting Arcane Bolt or Mystic Shield seems like a good default plan on the VLoZD. Pinions is just to make sure you get where you need to go. I have recently come to realize that my lists have more good spells than I can cast by default. All the dedicated casters have good warscroll spells, and all the combat-casters can try for one of Pinions, Bolt or Shield. Plus Invigorating Aura and endless spells.

That's why I am pretty OK now with taking situational Lore of Vampires/Deathmages spells. They don't need to be part of my game plan, they can just be an occasional bonus when a good opportunity presents itself. And if they double resolve from Locus, that's a nice bonus.

Totally agree with the opinion on spells. All the more reason I love Belladamma. A double cast wizard that gets +1 is just so darn good. Plus her warscroll spells are fantastic, command ability is decent, just enough wounds to get look out sir, can wound and MW shrug on a 3+ to dire wolves. All of that for 200 points is fantastic. Just is almost an auto include in most of my lists.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Totally agree with the opinion on spells. All the more reason I love Belladamma. A double cast wizard that gets +1 is just so darn good. Plus her warscroll spells are fantastic, command ability is decent, just enough wounds to get look out sir, can wound and MW shrug on a 3+ to dire wolves. All of that for 200 points is fantastic. Just is almost an auto include in most of my lists.

And even rerolling casts in Vyrkos, which means she casts like a +2/+3 to cast Wizard in all cases that matter. She's really super solid and I also find myself putting her in nearly all my lists. Great model, too.

[BaylorCorvette]

43 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

And even rerolling casts in Vyrkos, which means she casts like a +2/+3 to cast Wizard in all cases that matter. She's really super solid and I also find myself putting her in nearly all my lists. Great model, too.

I'm mixed on her model tbh. Not a huuuge fan of Grandma Vampire. I am doing a Custom more Regal Vyrkos army (kind of like a Kastelai / Vyrkos match up), going to have Grave Guard but use Cities of Sigmar executioners as the model and some of the heads from the Blood Knight kits. So I am doing a custom Balladamma using a Varanguard model and making a Vampire rider.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, BaylorCorvette said:

I'm mixed on her model tbh. Not a huuuge fan of Grandma Vampire. I am doing a Custom more Regal Vyrkos army (kind of like a Kastelai / Vyrkos match up), going to have Grave Guard but use Cities of Sigmar executioners as the model and some of the heads from the Blood Knight kits. So I am doing a custom Balladamma using a Varanguard model and making a Vampire rider.

Totally fair. I personally really love that the head of the Vyrkos dynasty is a weird, old fairy-tale wolf witch. I also really like all the other weird Vyrkos vampires like Kritza and Annika. But I totally get the appeal of the more martial Kastelai take on what vampires are like. It was actually really difficult for me to decide whether or not to go all-in on Blood Knights or wolf weirdos.

[Ghoooouls]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

After recently looking at the viability of a bravery bomb in Gravelords, I took a look at the math behind the Lore of Vampires spell Spirit Gale.

Spirit Gale casts on a 5 and targets a unit wholly within 18". You roll 2d6 and check against the target's bravery. If you roll over their bravery, deal mortal wounds equal to the difference. So, for example, if they have bravery 7 and you roll a 9, you deal 2 mortals.

I (and I would assume many other people) initially looked at that and thought it was probably bad. You need to "win" two rolls for the spell to do damage (casting and bravery), and even then how many mortals can you really expect to get out of it? Well, this much:

 

Bravery	Damage
10	0,22
9	0,56
8	1,11
7	1,94
6	2,78
5	3,56
4	4,22
3	4,72
2	5
1	6

 

The average damage of this spell is actually pretty good against low bravery. At bravery 7, it's on average about the same as Arcane Bolt. But the spell has a few notable upsides in Gravelords. First, it comes from the Lore of Vampires, which means it triggers Locus of Shyish (double casts) about 30% of the time, which pretty much means a 30% damage bonus on average. Second, it interacts with the bravery debuff from Animated Horrors (up to -2 for having Deathrattle or Deadwalker units within 6" of the target). For a target at 7 bravery, -2 would push the average damage to ~3,5 (equivalent to 1d6).

There are a few other factors to consider, though, that don't necessarily work in favour of Spirit Gale. For one, the spell is a lot swingier than good old Arcane Bolt. Against a bravery 7 target, it deals the same damage, but will deal no damage at all 58% of the time, but make up for it with the potential to spike way higher (up to 5 wounds). I don't know if this is necessarily a negative. Maybe you value potentially high damage more than consistent, but low damage.

The bigger issue is that there are few units you actually want to target with this spell. A cursory glance will tell you that heroes have around 7 bravery for the most part, but commonly more. All demons and Death heroes sit comfortably at 10 bravery. That takes out a lot of the juicy high-armour targets that you would want to gamble against for a chance at a big mortal wounds payoff. Some good targets exist, like the Leviadon, Stegadon and Ironclad, but you can't necessary expect every army you go up against to have a good target for this spell. However, in the worst case, you can always use it against battleline units, where it will perform decently for the most part.

After doing the math, this spell has gone up in my estimation from "bad" to "situational". Which really describes a lot of the Lore of Vampires spells. I feel better about them now, though, that taking an enhancement for a second spell for all wizards is a possibility. If you can take two spells and all your Vampires already have Pinions (which is still the best spell), then Spirit Gale is worth considering.

Yea I've used soulpike almost every game with Belladama and it's been really powerful. Got a unit of zombies near a stegadon in one game and it cast twice (9+) and did like 10 mortal wounds or something crazy.

Also just FYI, not sure if it was a simple mistake or you weren't aware - it's within 18, not wholly within, which makes it fairly decent range too. It's a very scary spell for anyone with average and lower bravery.

[AHexInScarletRed]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Totally fair. I personally really love that the head of the Vyrkos dynasty is a weird, old fairy-tale wolf witch. I also really like all the other weird Vyrkos vampires like Kritza and Annika. But I totally get the appeal of the more martial Kastelai take on what vampires are like. It was actually really difficult for me to decide whether or not to go all-in on Blood Knights or wolf weirdos.

I feel like these are two totally different types of theme; so different that I'd need every unit that overlaps twice because of how differently I'd model them. A Kastelai VLoZD (which I have, heavily bloodied with Greenstuff, bits and glue) would look totally different in Vyrkos where I'd go all-out dark fairytale while Kastelai wants the martial blood theme. What I want to say is: I'd love to play both, but I'd have to invest twice which I maybe will, but since I already have half a Kastelai army (heavy kitbashed Blood Knights, too, half the model is blood), I'll go Kastelai first. 

[shinros]

Personally I find Vyrkos far more closer to classic Dracula than mannfred/von carsteins after reading bram stoker Dracula, it's what drew to the bloodline actually. The bloodline is far more shrouded in myth and mystery which makes it rather interesting, because you got the mix of both feral and regal. Some who either control the beast or those who don't. 

Dracula and his ilk, were far from regal monsters going by the book, they seemed more like creepy undead creatures that can manipulate the animals of the night, along with the dead. Plus he had a shaggy wolf form. I'm sure GW did not take any inspiration when making Radukar, The Beast, lol. Plus Annika's appearance, was literally lifted from the movies/book. Let's not forget the eastern euro influence on the bloodline. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by shinros

[AHexInScarletRed]

2 Statements regarding our Battleline Infantry:

30 Skeletons make for a better Infantry Block than 40 Zombies in a Kastelai list centered around Prince V, a VLoZD/Vengorian Lord and Blood Knights. 

40 Zombies make for a better Infantry Block than 30 Skeletons in a Vyrkos list centered around Belladamma, Radukar the Beast, a bunch of Wolves and Blood Knights. 

Would y'all deem that correct? 

[Andalf]

I think you have it right Hex.  I’ve used the 30 block of skellies in most of my games and it hasn’t been removed completely yet.  In the Vyrkos lists it’s the anchor to one of my flanks while zombies and dire wolves push into the middle and bog everything down on the 6” pile in.  Amethystine Pinons has been amazing on foot Vamps, and if it doesn’t go off I’ve found Levitate works in a pinch.  I’ve been running a Mortis Engine with Belladamma so it hasn’t been to hard to cast.  I’ve been tinkering with lists that bring Cursed City and I gotta say there is a lot of hidden synergy in there.  I put spoor tracker on the foot vampire and my 40 Zombies and 10 wolves had no problem keeping units away from my objectives and drawing in anybody who got too close for all my Vamps to gang up on, but the Kosargi and Gorslav are deadwalkers too so you can really support that push with some solid models with 2” reach and extra Command Abilities.  I feel like my opponents will get wiser to that but it still makes for a wide no go zone.  Radukar the Wolf with pinions can get where he needs, and I’ve cast levitate on the Kosargi and left holes in my pile ins for them to tuck into.  The extra CP from Torguillius has been extremely helpful in popping Halgrims ability turn one to gain position with 30 Skeletons or GG, and Gorslav turn 2+ after a unit of zombies or dire wolves has gone down, I think that’s almost been worth losing Vanhel’s for and with Chronomantic Cogs I can push around 2 -1 to hit spells or a timely Fading Vigour.  Blood born running around, especially if you can bounce cover to cover, they seem low priority at first but they really move and cause bad decisions.  Ghost Mist and Prismatic Palisade are great in the list to hide important Characters and all the little unique squads.  Pretty much all of them have wards or can bounce wounds to a friendly as well.  Lastly, the Vargskyr is actually badass.  I was casting Under the Killing Moon on him and fighting from behind two ranks of zombies a lot.  He doesn’t get his bite attack but he was always in the thick of it causing headaches; he reminded me of a close combat version of the Hurakan Wind Spirit.  There were a lot of working parts and I think I might reign in some of the characters but it’s a fun army to play.  Here’s the list:

Belladamma Volga - Levitate

Radukar the Wolf - Amethystine Pinions

Gorslav

Torguillius - Fading Vigour

Halgrim

Vampire Lord - Ghost Mist, Spoor Tracker, Arcane Tome, Warlord Enhancement: Spirit Gale

Kosargi Nightguard

Vyrkos Bloodborn

Vargskyr

2 x 20 Zombies

30 Skeletons

10 Dire Wolves

Mortis Engine

Chronomantic Cogs

Prismatic Pallisade

I put the Vamp and 2 chars/dire wolves into a Warlord and took a Vanguard with Radukar, the Kosargi and 2 Zombie squads.  It’s allowed me to reroll some timely charges or bounce the auto 6” run to not need charges with the zombies.  This way of bringing units into combat normally makes it so you’re only getting 2-3 zombies in contact and with coherency a lot of units have struggled to get enough models swinging back to do much.  I also really want the Spell Portal now, and will try and throw some endless spells through it after Lycancurse.  I think the list could use more bodies but everything kind of works together, I’m not sure where to start trimming fat.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Andalf

[vlad3theimpaler]

10 hours ago, shinros said:

Personally I find Vyrkos far more closer to classic Dracula than mannfred/von carsteins after reading bram stoker Dracula, it's what drew to the bloodline actually. The bloodline is far more shrouded in myth and mystery which makes it rather interesting, because you got the mix of both feral and regal. Some who either control the beast or those who don't. 

Dracula and his ilk, were far from regal monsters going by the book, they seemed more like creepy undead creatures that can manipulate the animals of the night, along with the dead. Plus he had a shaggy wolf form. I'm sure GW did not take any inspiration when making Radukar, The Beast, lol. Plus Annika's appearance, was literally lifted from the movies/book. Let's not forget the eastern euro influence on the bloodline. 

Annika also reminds me of Carmilla, particularly because of the mask.  Kind of funny that she's in Vyrkos, rather than von Carstein, whose name actually comes from Carmilla.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

14 hours ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

2 Statements regarding our Battleline Infantry:

30 Skeletons make for a better Infantry Block than 40 Zombies in a Kastelai list centered around Prince V, a VLoZD/Vengorian Lord and Blood Knights. 

40 Zombies make for a better Infantry Block than 30 Skeletons in a Vyrkos list centered around Belladamma, Radukar the Beast, a bunch of Wolves and Blood Knights. 

Would y'all deem that correct? 

I'm not really sure. I think both zombies and skeletons are good in both lists, actually. They just have slightly different uses. Skeletons bring staying power, while Zombies bring 40 bodies for just one reinforcement point, plus their pile in and mortal wound shennenigans.

I have been thinking about the choice between zombies and skeletons since we got the new reinforcement rules. I think 40 zombies for just a single reinforcement points are strong in a world where most units will be max-size 30 for two points. Having access to this option makes Gravelords one of the few factions that can do a real horde list now.

Skeletons, on the other hand, I still feel are kind of necessary to bring in a lot of lists just so that you can have a unit that can charitably be described as an anvil.

The nice thing is that both units are cheap enough that you don't even need to choose. You can easily run both and make a list that is both hordy, has a nice anvil and can still run and properly support a few units of elite Blood Knights:

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty

Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (455)
Vengorian Lord (280)
Necromancer (125)

Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)

Total: 1965 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 169

 

[Liquidsteel]

20 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Snip

Just wanted to say, please keep these analyses going.

It's good to get a more in-depth perspective on stuff like this.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Liquidsteel said:

Just wanted to say, please keep these analyses going.

It's good to get a more in-depth perspective on stuff like this.

I definitely will, since I am doing the math out of my own interest, anyway. I should probably start posting them as blogs, too, I guess.

[AHexInScarletRed]

35 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I'm not really sure. I think both zombies and skeletons are good in both lists, actually. They just have slightly different uses. Skeletons bring staying power, while Zombies bring 40 bodies for just one reinforcement point, plus their pile in and mortal wound shennenigans.

I have been thinking about the choice between zombies and skeletons since we got the new reinforcement rules. I think 40 zombies for just a single reinforcement points are strong in a world where most units will be max-size 30 for two points. Having access to this option makes Gravelords one of the few factions that can do a real horde list now.

Skeletons, on the other hand, I still feel are kind of necessary to bring in a lot of lists just so that you can have a unit that can charitably be described as an anvil.

The nice thing is that both units are cheap enough that you don't even need to choose. You can easily run both and make a list that is both hordy, has a nice anvil and can still run and properly support a few units of elite Blood Knights:

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty

Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (455)
Vengorian Lord (280)
Necromancer (125)

Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)

Total: 1965 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 169

 

Thanks for the in-depth reply! Both Battleline Infantry options being viable has a myriad of positives and one negative, which is budget, so I'm trying to determine what to get, haha. Currently, I can more or less only afford one big block if I want to get anything else, e.g. a Vengorian Lord. 

I've been toying around with this, as I'd only have to get the Vengorian Lord, one pack of Blood Knights and the Skeletons, the rest I have:

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty

Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (455)
Vengorian Lord (280)
Necromancer (125)

Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)
 

Other
3 x Vargheists (155)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400

My main gripe is the low body count, but with only one block of Infantry, I think Skeletons will outperform Zombies in this list in regards to holding onto an objective. 

[Reinholt]

On 6/22/2021 at 2:19 PM, AHexInScarletRed said:

2 Statements regarding our Battleline Infantry:

30 Skeletons make for a better Infantry Block than 40 Zombies in a Kastelai list centered around Prince V, a VLoZD/Vengorian Lord and Blood Knights. 

40 Zombies make for a better Infantry Block than 30 Skeletons in a Vyrkos list centered around Belladamma, Radukar the Beast, a bunch of Wolves and Blood Knights. 

Would y'all deem that correct? 

I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome Blood Knight battleline is.

 

Joking aside, I think the zombies are also interesting for the pile in nonsense. They can move surprisingly fast. I like the skeletons to hold objectives but in the new form of the game where the primary weirdly might not be your main points generation tool at all times and holding 2 objectives might be enough, I'm not as sold on them. Still useful, and require less babysitting. Zombies are occasionally totally filthy though, especially if you run some buffs via a necromancer, vamp lord, radhukar, etc. on them.

[Voand]

What do people think about the "double dragon" lists in 3.0? Seeing how much it matters to be a behemoth (not just the extra actions granted but the extra points scored for completing objectives with one in a lot of the missions) it looks really attractive to me.

You run prince V, a VLoZD with the 5+ ward save relic, a couple units blood nights and ??? Profit???

Do you cram it into a vyrkos list, run belladama as your 3rd character for her ridiculous casting and fill with lots of chaff? Run Kastelai for battleline blood knights and go super tall with almost no chaff?

How do y'all think I it'll work best or do you think it won't?

Edited June 24, 2021 by Voand

[Ghoooouls]

3 minutes ago, Voand said:

What do people think about the "double dragon" lists in 3.0? Seeing how much it matters to be a behemoth (not just the extra actions granted but the extra points scored for completing objectives with one in a lot of the missions) it looks really attractive to me.

You run prince V, a VLoZD with the 5+ ward save relic, a couple units blood nights and ??? Profit???

Do you cram it into a vyrkos list, run belladama as your 3rd character for her ridiculous casting and fill with lots of chaff? Run Katelai for battleline blood knights and go super tall with almost no chaff?

How do y'all think I it'll work best or do you think it won't?

I think Behemoths are a double edged sword. As you say, they score extra in some plans, there are also battle tactics for monsters, or ones that score more from being completed by monsters, which is huge in a lot of plans that give 2VP just for doing a battle tactic.

However, the other edge of the sword is your opponent gets 1VP for each monster they kill. There are also battle tactics specifically for slaying monsters, so you give them the opportunity to complete those too. Some plans you score more for heroes nearby and if you've sunk 900 points into two heroes I think there's little room for others. I think I also remember seeing some where battleline score extra, which again with 900 in two heroes you'll likely have less for battleline.

I think multi-behemoth lists Will be good, but just beware you are also giving the opponent (potentially) more VP too.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Ghoooouls