AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[KriticalKhan]

8 hours ago, Orchid89 said:

hmm I wonder if the Vargheists/Flayers and Terrorgheist/VLoZD would be easy to magnetise so I could start both FEC and SBGL at the same time.

The terrorgheist kit is impossible to magnetize without some decently heavy conversion work

Vargheists are ******-easy if you're only doing the arms, which is what 99% of people will notice. You could magnetize the head and backs, but it might be a little too tedious, depending on how many you plan on doing.

[AHexInScarletRed]

9 hours ago, Orchid89 said:

hmm I wonder if the Vargheists/Flayers and Terrorgheist/VLoZD would be easy to magnetise so I could start both FEC and SBGL at the same time.

I magnetised both the Vargheist heads and the Dragon head; you need to remove a fair bit of plastic at the Vargheist heads as else, your magnets will create super-long necks. The Dragon- and Terrorgheist-Head you'll need to fill out to properly place the magnet while you'll have to create the surface on the neck. 

[Aturox]

If i roll a natural 9+ on invigorating aura can i choose the same unit for both effects or does it count as a extra spell and if have to take another unit instead?

[Dejnar]

Has anyone finalised an Avengorii list yet?

I feel a bit lost trying to put on together.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

42 minutes ago, Aturox said:

If i roll a natural 9+ on invigorating aura can i choose the same unit for both effects or does it count as a extra spell and if have to take another unit instead?

You only get double spells on a 9+ for lore of vampires and lore of deathmages spells. So no warscroll spells, arcane bold, mystic shield or invigorating aura.

[brattenbergus]

31 minutes ago, Dejnar said:

Has anyone finalised an Avengorii list yet?

I feel a bit lost trying to put on together.

Was thinking the same. Is it bad to bring Radukar the Beast in an dynasty outside Vyrkos? 

Some big dragons, maybe an VLoZD, Vengorian lord, an unit of Vargheists and then Dire Wolves to fill out the lasts spot for Battleline? I do like the Zombies aswell though. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by brattenbergus

[BoneHeart]

36 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

You only get double spells on a 9+ for lore of vampires and lore of deathmages spells. So no warscroll spells, arcane bold, mystic shield or invigorating aura.

great design choice here I see

[BoneHeart]

46 minutes ago, Dejnar said:

Has anyone finalised an Avengorii list yet?

I feel a bit lost trying to put on together.

I'll try this

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Avengorii Dynasty
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Unhinged Rampager
- Artefact: The Furious Crown
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Lauka Vai, Mother of Nightmares (285)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Vengorian Lord (280)
- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale
Necromancer (125)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)
Terrorgheist (305)
- Cursed Mutation: Nullblood Construct

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 minutes ago, brattenbergus said:

Was thinking the same. Is it bad to bring Radukar the Beast in an dynasty outside Vyrkos? 

Some big dragons, maybe an VLoZD, Vengorian lord, an unit of Vargheists and then Dire Wolves to fill out the lasts spot for Battleline? I do like the Zombies aswell though. 

Radukar works pretty well in any dynasty in my opinion. He doesn't especially benefit from being in Vyrkos at all, since he is not a wizard. I would actually look at him as the go-to mid-sized martial hero in Gravelords. Vampire Lords are kinda small and fragile, and Vengorian Lords are more of a defense-oriented unit. So if you want a medium sized hero that is fast, fighty and can give out offensive buffs, Radukar seems like the best option. Especially since the standard VLoZD does not have a command ability anymore.

8 minutes ago, BoneHeart said:

great design choice here I see

It's one of my frustrations with the Gravelords, as well. There are several places where the book sets you up to think that you can do something cool, but then when you look closer you are actually fairly limited. Like with Locus of Shyish only doubling up lore spells, and then not even doubling up Pinions. There are really very few instances where that ability actually matters outside of Mortarchs casting Lore of Deathmages spells.

Another example is the Vyrkos allegiance ability that gives you reroll casts. Sounds really good, but then you notice it's only on vampires and they don't really get any worthwhile spells.

Or the way that Deathrattle Skeletons regenerate now. Half the models you lost back in each combat activation! And Vanhel's lets them activate twice! But then it doesn't work for models lost outside the combat phase and you still need to take huge battleshock tests.

Basically, what happens way too often that you look at the book, see a potentially cool interaction, and then it turns out that you can't actually do the cool thing.

Still, I am feeling overall positive about the book. There are certainly more viable, fun builds in there than before and we have a lot of good warscrolls. The changes to gravesites, while nerfs compared to LoN, were probably needed. The old unit return was just too strong. It suffocated the design space in the rest of the book. The new Endless Legions, Invigorating Aura and Deathly Invocation are weaker, but that means that our warscrolls can be better and we are not as reliant on SUMMONABLE units and multiple small heroes. The new deep strike and resurrection not needing heroes or command points to work really makes the play style of the book a lot more dynamic and less likely to result in death stars. So although it's not everything I wanted, I think it's a good book that should be fun to play.

[brattenbergus]

4 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Especially since the standard VLoZD does not have a command ability anymore.

Oh, Ive missed that. Well, that sucks. Does Prince V benifit from Avengoriis traits for units with keyword Vampire Monster? 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, brattenbergus said:

Oh, Ive missed that. Well, that sucks. Does Prince V benifit from Avengoriis traits for units with keyword Vampire Monster? 

Prince Vhordrai doesn't benefit from any lineage traits other than Kastelai, because he's locked to that lineage by his keywords.

[brattenbergus]

2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Prince Vhordrai doesn't benefit from any lineage traits other than Kastelai, because he's locked to that lineage by his keywords.

Ah, yes ofcourse! Shame that VLoZD lost their CA. 

[Well of Eternity]

Pack of my lists. I will try them one by one

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Avengorii Dynasty
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Vengorian Lord (280)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: An Eye for An Eye
- Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Battleline
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)
Terrorgheist (305)
Terrorgheist (305)

Behemoths
Mourngul (270)
- Allies

Total: 1995 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 270 / 400
Wounds: 122

 

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Aura of Dark Majesty
- Artefact: Soulbound Garments
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)
- Artefact: Amulet of Screams
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike

Battleline
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)

Units
1 x Corpse Cart with Unholy Lodestone (80)
1 x Corpse Cart with Balefire Brazier (80)

Battalions
Deathstench Drove (100)

Total: 1930 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 163

 

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Night
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Abhorrant Archregent (240)
- Allies
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380) - Lore of Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Vengorian Lord (280)
- General
- Command Trait: Above Suspicion
- Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)

Units
6 x Vargheists (310)
3 x Vargheists (155)
3 x Vargheists (155)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 117

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty

Leaders
Big Drogg Fort-Kicka (490)
- Allies
Wight King (115)
- General
- Command Trait: Kin of the Wolf
- Artefact: Ulfenkarnian Phylactery
Radukar the Beast (315)
Necromancer (125)

Battleline
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 490 / 400
Wounds: 137

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty

Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Fragment of the Keep
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Prince Vhordrai (455)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)
- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale

Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97

 

[Ghoooouls]

Forgot to mention, necromancers got buffed loads!

Point drop by 5 points, better attack profile, better wound shrug onto summonable units, better spell.

They are almost as good as a wight King in combat now hahaha.

[shadowseer42]

Avengorii coven throne with his command ability and An eye for an eye command trait is ****** hilarious, since it affects mounts and doubles damage on ALL throne's attacks.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

33 minutes ago, shadowseer42 said:

Avengorii coven throne with his command ability and An eye for an eye command trait is ****** hilarious, since it affects mounts and doubles damage on ALL throne's attacks.

That damage output is actually way more respectable than I would have expected. Drops off hard for high saves, though.

		Save Coven Throne   Coven Throne buffed 2+ 3.5 6.94 3+ 4.7 10.95 4+ 5.91 14.97 5+ 7.11 18.98 6+ 8.31 23 - 9.22 26.08
		EDIT: Fun to think about with the throne's warscroll spell that makes enemy units unable to attack it.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Raptor_Jesues]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

That damage output is actually way more respectable than I would have expected. Drops off hard for high saves, though.

		Save Coven Throne   Coven Throne buffed 2+ 3.5 6.94 3+ 4.7 10.95 4+ 5.91 14.97 5+ 7.11 18.98 6+ 8.31 23 - 9.22 26.08
		EDIT: Fun to think about with the throne's warscroll spell that makes enemy units unable to attack it.

wait, the coven throne hits harder than a vengorian lord? Well, that is hilarious 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[shadowseer42]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

That damage output is actually way more respectable than I would have expected. Drops off hard for high saves, though.

		Save Coven Throne   Coven Throne buffed 2+ 3.5 6.94 3+ 4.7 10.95 4+ 5.91 14.97 5+ 7.11 18.98 6+ 8.31 23 - 9.22 26.08
		EDIT: Fun to think about with the throne's warscroll spell that makes enemy units unable to attack it.

 

Ghost attacks still does 1 mw instead of 2 damage on a six, and to benefit from +1damage from command trait, you need to be harmed in the same phase and degrade a bit. So actual output WILL be lower, but still serious. That's a pain to properly calculate things like this.

[herohammer]

I am going to be running Nagash in Legion of Night with his personal gimp carrying around Morbheg's Claw to boost him to +5 to cast. Will be extra nice with Neferata and if we get old mystic shield back.

[Kaizennus]

So I'm still very new, only a handful of games under my belt and none of them as SBG or even LoN. But I'm putting together my first few lists and trying to work with what I have access to at the moment. Any thoughts on these lists from people with actual experience?

List #1: Legion of Blood

Spoiler

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords

- Lineage: Legion of Blood

Leaders

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)

- General

- Deathlance

- Command Trait: Aura of Dark Majesty

- Artefact: Soulbound Garments

- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Vengorian Lord (280)

- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike

Necromancer (125)

- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Necromancer (125)

- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline

20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)

20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)

20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)

10 x Dire Wolves (135)

Units

20 x Grave Guard (280)

- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields

6 x Fell Bats (150)

Total: 1985 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 152

This list tries to make the VLoZD tanky by giving him a 2+ save and a -1 to hit debuff. The Vengorian adds to this with his -1 to rend aura and the necromancer spell that also gives a -1 to hit rolls.

You then have 60 models worth of battleline chaff that can be buffed by the necromancers and (the deathrattle) potentially be immune to negative modifers (but there's not a lot of vampires in the army). Grave guard are your big hitters, Dire Wolves act as screens, and the Fell Bats can harass or grab objectives.

List #2: Vyrkos List

Spoiler

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords

- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty

 

Leaders

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)

- General

- Deathlance

- Command Trait: Hunter's Snare

- Artefact: Vilnas' Fang

- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike

Vengorian Lord (280)

- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Vampire Lord (140)

- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale

Vampire Lord (140)

- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike

 

Battleline

20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)

20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)

20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)

10 x Dire Wolves (135)

10 x Dire Wolves (135)

 

Units

20 x Grave Guard (280)

- Great Wight Blades

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 154

This list is a bit more offensive. The Skeletons and Zombies will get a +1 to wound buff from the allegiance ability and should always be in range due to stacking vampires in this list. The vampires can re-roll their casts, and while their spells aren't the greatest I think you should be able to get the buffs off fairly consistently against most armies. The VLoZD has the trait that lets him count as 14 models for objectives, which gives you a bit more objective play, especially if you can keep him alive for later turns. His artefact will likely give him a +3 charge once per game, which isn't particularly notable but at least it plays into the vampire stacking. Once again, you have 60 models of chaff and now two full units of dire wolves which can either be used to screen or grab objectives.

Anyway, that's my thought process as a total noob to the game and faction. I imagine there's a lot of stuff that I'm overlooking and/or misunderstanding. I'm also guessing that there are some better units I could swap out. Hoping to pick up some blood knights, the mortarchs, and either a corpse cart or coven sometime in the future.

Thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

[JackStreicher]

40 minutes ago, Kaizennus said:

So I'm still very new, only a handful of games under my belt and none of them as SBG or even LoN. But I'm putting together my first few lists and trying to work with what I have access to at the moment. Any thoughts on these lists from people with actual experience?

List #1: Legion of Blood

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords

- Lineage: Legion of Blood

Leaders

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)

- General

- Deathlance

- Command Trait: Aura of Dark Majesty

- Artefact: Soulbound Garments

- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Vengorian Lord (280)

- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike

Necromancer (125)

- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Necromancer (125)

- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline

20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)

20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)

20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)

10 x Dire Wolves (135)

Units

20 x Grave Guard (280)

- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields

6 x Fell Bats (150)

Total: 1985 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 152

This list tries to make the VLoZD tanky by giving him a 2+ save and a -1 to hit debuff. The Vengorian adds to this with his -1 to rend aura and the necromancer spell that also gives a -1 to hit rolls.

You then have 60 models worth of battleline chaff that can be buffed by the necromancers and (the deathrattle) potentially be immune to negative modifers (but there's not a lot of vampires in the army). Grave guard are your big hitters, Dire Wolves act as screens, and the Fell Bats can harass or grab objectives.

List #2: Vyrkos List

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords

- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty

 

Leaders

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)

- General

- Deathlance

- Command Trait: Hunter's Snare

- Artefact: Vilnas' Fang

- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike

Vengorian Lord (280)

- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Vampire Lord (140)

- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale

Vampire Lord (140)

- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike

 

Battleline

20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)

20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)

20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)

10 x Dire Wolves (135)

10 x Dire Wolves (135)

 

Units

20 x Grave Guard (280)

- Great Wight Blades

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 154

This list is a bit more offensive. The Skeletons and Zombies will get a +1 to wound buff from the allegiance ability and should always be in range due to stacking vampires in this list. The vampires can re-roll their casts, and while their spells aren't the greatest I think you should be able to get the buffs off fairly consistently against most armies. The VLoZD has the trait that lets him count as 14 models for objectives, which gives you a bit more objective play, especially if you can keep him alive for later turns. His artefact will likely give him a +3 charge once per game, which isn't particularly notable but at least it plays into the vampire stacking. Once again, you have 60 models of chaff and now two full units of dire wolves which can either be used to screen or grab objectives.

Anyway, that's my thought process as a total noob to the game and faction. I imagine there's a lot of stuff that I'm overlooking and/or misunderstanding. I'm also guessing that there are some better units I could swap out. Hoping to pick up some blood knights, the mortarchs, and either a corpse cart or coven sometime in the future.

Thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

I like lost no. 1.

I believe there‘s an issue with list no. 2.: Once the 20 GG and the Zombie Dragon are gone you lose the ability to kill key targets and the army will crumble. Maybe try to squeeze in 5 Blood Knights or another 20 GG?

 

[brattenbergus]

I really want to try out the Avengorii Dynasty, but Im having a bit of trouble getting a list together that feels good. I really like Radukar so I would like to try fit him in aswell. Since I Dont have any Death models I was thinking of buying two FEC Start Collecting Box and build it from there. I came up with this list so far, but I feel something is missing. What do you think? 

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords

- Lineage: Avengorii Dynasty

 

Leaders

Radukar the Beast (315)

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)

- Deathlance

Lauka Vai, Mother of Nightmares (285)

 

Battleline

40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)

20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)

Terrorgheist (305)

 

Units

6 x Vargheists (310)

 

Total: 1995 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 135

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by brattenbergus

[Ratling]

Can anyone dm me white dwarf rules please?

[Erdemo86]

Hey guys, this is the list I want to try in next tournament, what do you think?

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
Reikenor the Grimhailer (160)
- Allies
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander  
- Artefact: Standard of the Crimson Keep  
Radukar the Beast (315)

10 x Blood Knights (390)
5 x Blood Knights (195)

10 x Dire Wolves (135)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)

3 x Vargheists (155)

Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 160 / 400
Wounds: 130

 

The Core idea is to cast Coggs with Reikenor more than 30 inch away from enemy wizard with the + 3 to cast buff from him. 
Then Teleport or Move(depends on distance to enemy) and charge your enemy with Bloodknights,VLoZD,Vargheists and maybe Radukar(Command Ability).

Activate Rousing Commander and let the fest begin. Trying to kill some units to get the permanent Kastelei buffs.

The 2x 10 + 10 Wolves (Radukar) are there to screen,go for objectives, maybe kill some low save stuff and get use of the allegiance ability. If it’s that minus bravery, bringing back d3 or bringing back a unit of 5 wolves.

All units without the Heroes are able to be teleported in this list.

With chronomatic coggs down and the pinions spell, we have a very nice threat range. Even if we don’t teleport BKS on missions where distance is 18“.

VLoZD 14“+ 6“ + 2“ = 22“ inch move + 2d6+2 Charge

Blood knights 10“+2“=12 + 2D6+2 charge

even Radukar is very fast with 8“+ 2“ + (2d6+2)+ 1 d6 because he can run and charge.

Its a very very fast list I would say^^ (30 wolves also very fast..)

For CA: The first turn we sure want to summon Radukas Wolves after that we can use the CPs for his +1Attack bubble.

 

If Someone have some ideas and feedback, I would really love to here your opinions. 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Erdemo86

[Raptor_Jesues]

I just realized something and i feel pretty dumb now for not making the connection before.
If the more command points per turn of AoS3 is true then the coven throne will be more than worth its points and it will be very hard for me to justify not including it in every list.