AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[Tizianolol]

At this point i think its official, BK can chstge after riders of ruin. They said " they can make a normal move eaven if enemy within 3" then charge .." 

[Raptor_Jesues]

Just now, Tizianolol said:

At this point i think its official, BK can chstge after riders of ruin. They said " they can make a normal move eaven if enemy within 3" then charge .." 

that is the hope but it is widely known that warcom is 90% potatoes and usually says bulls*it like that when it is not true. Let us hope we got the 10% that is not potatoes because then bloodknights are going from nice to incredibly good

[Liquidsteel]

It's also an AoS 3.0 article so remember that. Still in 2.0 for a few more weeks.

 

Regardless,  hype!

[El Syf]

So other than very limited access to high rend (which is something not many other people seem to value) we do have a great army for 3.0.

Also can anyone who has put the coven throne together some me from wasting money and tell how easy it would be to get rid of the vampires currently on it and replace with the new vampire lord stepping down or Prince Duvalle with his foot on the cauldron? I’m probably looking at paying someone to do it properly but just wondered on the feasibility.

Another quick point... I’m assuming after everyone lost their minds Petrifex Elite will not be able to benefit from all the +1 to armour save stuff that coming?

Edited June 10, 2021 by El Syf

[Raptor_Jesues]

15 minutes ago, El Syf said:

So other than very limited access to high rend (which is something not many other people seem to value) we do have a great army for 3.0.

Also can anyone who has put the coven throne together some me from wasting money and tell how easy it would be to get rid of the vampires currently on it and replace with the new vampire lord stepping down or Prince Duvalle with his foot on the cauldron? I’m probably looking at paying someone to do it properly but just wondered on the feasibility.

very easy actually and i did more or less the same thing with my blood dragons foot vampires (they are not going to be used by themselves so i put them on the throne). If the foot is too low a bit of greenstuff will fix it

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

16 minutes ago, El Syf said:

Also can anyone who has put the coven throne together some me from wasting money and tell how easy it would be to get rid of the vampires currently on it and replace with the new vampire lord stepping down or Prince Duvalle with his foot on the cauldron? I’m probably looking at paying someone to do it properly but just wondered on the feasibility.

It would probably be pretty easy. The crew of the coven throne are all separate miniatures you can just leave off. I managed to fit the Liche Priest and guard from the Casket of Souls on mine without a lot of problems.

[Ghoooouls]

Yes I'm assuming that article is based off new 3.0 'normal move' rules. But if they're correct, blood knights just became even better. Love it.

[Nagashfan]

Steve: Blood Knights benefit from a couple of standout abilities. Firstly, their 3+ Save, coupled with the All-out Defence command ability, means they’re going to stick around.*** Riders of Ruin lets them make a normal move even when enemies are within 3”, trample straight over them (inflicting mortal wounds in the process), then charge straight back into the unit with deadly lances for masses of damage.

[swarmofseals]

While WarCom has been known to make errors in the past, I am confident that this is not an error.

[Causalis]

To be honest it was never a question for me if BK can retreat and charge. It was very clearly RAI and anyone who was arguing about it was intepreting too much into it.

That aside, what do you guys think are the winners for SBGL regarding the new 3.0 rules?

[warhammernerd]

This is flipping great. Blood Knights are going to be an ABSOLUTE menace. 

[Andalf]

So far I’m starting to feel like my Soulblight army might be my tourney go to for the next year.  Everyone in my group thinks they have a balanced battle tome and I don’t feel like I’m ever relying on one super combo to go off or not in order to execute my game plan.  I’m also a big fan of not experiencing eye rolls all game from shooting, I can never seem to strike the right balance between enough shots that can do damage while also maintaining a solid chaff screen.  The style of play I feel like could get back to the old square base days when you’d constantly use small flank squads to pull out tempting decisions for your opponent, and there’s an entire new gamut of options even with the new Heroic and Monster activations that make the game less predictable.

With the new reinforcing rules I’m seeing multiple min grave guard squads popping out of gravesites while the zombie horde and dire wolves hold the centre.  I’m thinking about taking multiple reinforced wolf squads and the gramma too, she can help roar at stuff or chip in some extra mortals while her signature spells could be really handy in tipping the scales in tight combats.  Monsters are clear winners, especially hero ones that can Finest Hour and Allout defence, the Vengorian’s strong saves and ability to regenerate D6 from his CA + D3 from Hunger and D3 if you pass the bravery check.  I’m thinking that my flying bat theme army looks a lot cooler.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Andalf

[Nightseer2012]

56 minutes ago, Causalis said:

That aside, what do you guys think are the winners for SBGL regarding the new 3.0 rules?

The Mortarchs are big winners.  Heroes and Monsters, respectable stat lines (Especially the 3+ saves), becoming "additional generals" in their own legions (which protects your extra CP).  Mannfred got his escape pod and Neferata can heal d6 wounds.  If the "reinforcement" rumors are true, then they are more survivable fighting MSU instead of deathstar blobs.

Because of that, Legion of Blood Neferata+VLoZDw/Soulbound Garments will be my first test when 3.0 drops in full.  They both dive with some dire wolves or Black Knight missiles for MW, Neferata protects the whole block with Twilight's allure, maybe even succeeds at Mystic Shield and Dark Mist to give either her or the VLoZD that sweet Super Ethereal save.

Lauka Vai and the Vengorian will also be good for the same reason , easily buffable with being Heroes+Monsters, and an Extra General.

Belladama Volga may not be a Monster,  but she may be an auto-take for a lot of lists that aren't even Vyrkos.  Being an extra general, one of our few 2 cast wizards (the only cheap one), and that wolf creating spell is a hard counter for the "Unleash Hell" that is spooky for us.

[Scruf]

10 minutes ago, Nightseer2012 said:

The Mortarchs are big winners.  Heroes and Monsters, respectable stat lines (Especially the 3+ saves), becoming "additional generals" in their own legions (which protects your extra CP).  Mannfred got his escape pod and Neferata can heal d6 wounds.  If the "reinforcement" rumors are true, then they are more survivable fighting MSU instead of deathstar blobs.

Because of that, Legion of Blood Neferata+VLoZDw/Soulbound Garments will be my first test when 3.0 drops in full.  They both dive with some dire wolves or Black Knight missiles for MW, Neferata protects the whole block with Twilight's allure, maybe even succeeds at Mystic Shield and Dark Mist to give either her or the VLoZD that sweet Super Ethereal save.

Lauka Vai and the Vengorian will also be good for the same reason , easily buffable with being Heroes+Monsters, and an Extra General.

Belladama Volga may not be a Monster,  but she may be an auto-take for a lot of lists that aren't even Vyrkos.  Being an extra general, one of our few 2 cast wizards (the only cheap one), and that wolf creating spell is a hard counter for the "Unleash Hell" that is spooky for us.

Assuming I can get 2 artifacts in 3.0, I'm planning on Vengo + Necromancer instead of VLoZD w/ Neferata and Belladama. If the Vengorian Lord doesn't play out, I'm super interested in Chadukar The Beast for the 10 Wolves and some melee punch.

[Nightseer2012]

11 minutes ago, Scruf said:

Assuming I can get 2 artifacts in 3.0, I'm planning on Vengo + Necromancer instead of VLoZD w/ Neferata and Belladama. If the Vengorian Lord doesn't play out, I'm super interested in Chadukar The Beast for the 10 Wolves and some melee punch.

Necromancer is still a great pick, mostly just because Danse Macabre is still important, especially if you are bringing along Grave Guard.  And now there are more universal command abilities for him to use.  I like Radukar the Beast, but after playing undead for... nearly 20 years, I have grown very accustom to all my vampires being spellcasters, and I just find it weird that 3 of the named Vyrkos are not spellcasters, despite their allegiance ability, lol.  He definitely is a heavy hitter though, and bringing along so many free wolves as part of your cost is admittedly pretty sweet.

[Feii]

4 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

that is the hope but it is widely known that warcom is 90% potatoes and usually says bulls*it like that when it is not true. Let us hope we got the 10% that is not potatoes because then bloodknights are going from nice to incredibly good

you can see my most "confused:  reacted post in the rumour thread where I said Blood knights aren;t good but IF the article is true it makes them S tier. 

[Reinholt]

On the topic of the article, did they re-word the movement phase with the new keywords for AoS 3.0? I don't recall seeing it but one possibility would be to have separated normal moves from retreat moves in the actual rule text and then the Blood Knights don't work in AoS 2.0 but work as intended in AoS 3.0. Have we seen that yet?

 

As if they can move and re-charge, that is a top tier competitive option and I think SBG is a much stronger book overall as a fast, hard hitting, potentially battleline, 5 model cavalry unit is exactly what the doctor ordered for this faction. Especially with Unleash Hell as you can jump screens to get to the actual unit with the special move.

 

Likewise, I do think Vengorian Lords are one of the quiet winners here. Have access to the hero and monster actions, can attempt to heal with the heal action in addition to the Hunger, can Monster shout at people to shut down their command abilities, blocks -1 rend, etc. My estimation of that piece (along with the Mortarchs, obviously) is going up in an MSU world.

 

Edit: multiple generals is also strong as this army will use CP well

Edited June 10, 2021 by Reinholt

[Scruf]

1 minute ago, Reinholt said:

On the topic of the article, did they re-word the movement phase with the new keywords for AoS 3.0? I don't recall seeing it but one possibility would be to have separated normal moves from retreat moves in the actual rule text and then the Blood Knights don't work in AoS 2.0 but work as intended in AoS 3.0. Have we seen that yet?

 

Allegedly that quote is from a play tester. If it didn't change and the play tester misread the 2.0 rule... Sigmar save us.

[DJMoose]

39 minutes ago, Reinholt said:

Likewise, I do think Vengorian Lords are one of the quiet winners here. Have access to the hero and monster actions, can attempt to heal with the heal action in addition to the Hunger, can Monster shout at people to shut down their command abilities, blocks -1 rend, etc. My estimation of that piece (along with the Mortarchs, obviously) is going up in an MSU world.

 

Edit: multiple generals is also strong as this army will use CP well

My thoughts exactly. Heroes that are also monsters are going to be stellar in what they can do! And the good news is IIRC monster actions and heroic actions are different than command abilities and can still be used if the VL or Lauka Vai fail their undeniable impulse. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by DJMoose

[Joseph Mackay]

5 hours ago, Causalis said:

To be honest it was never a question for me if BK can retreat and charge. It was very clearly RAI and anyone who was arguing about it was intepreting too much into it.

That aside, what do you guys think are the winners for SBGL regarding the new 3.0 rules?

Without stating they’re allowed to charge in their rule, they currently are not allowed to by the core rules. A Retreat is a Normal Move starting within 3” of an enemy. Core rules disallow charging after a retreat. Riders Of Ruin as it’s currently written doesn’t override the core rules unfortunately. Being that the book was probably written for AoS3, maybe the core rules are changing 

[Honk]

8 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Riders Of Ruin as it’s currently written doesn’t override the core rules unfortunately.

QfT…

i hope the faq fixed this, because otherwise it will be another „would be great, but GDubs can’t rule…“

still hyped to field granny and her boi, all the new units need to be tested

🐺🦇🦅🦄🐉

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

14 hours ago, Reinholt said:

On the topic of the article, did they re-word the movement phase with the new keywords for AoS 3.0? I don't recall seeing it but one possibility would be to have separated normal moves from retreat moves in the actual rule text and then the Blood Knights don't work in AoS 2.0 but work as intended in AoS 3.0. Have we seen that yet?

 

As if they can move and re-charge, that is a top tier competitive option and I think SBG is a much stronger book overall as a fast, hard hitting, potentially battleline, 5 model cavalry unit is exactly what the doctor ordered for this faction. Especially with Unleash Hell as you can jump screens to get to the actual unit with the special move.

 

Likewise, I do think Vengorian Lords are one of the quiet winners here. Have access to the hero and monster actions, can attempt to heal with the heal action in addition to the Hunger, can Monster shout at people to shut down their command abilities, blocks -1 rend, etc. My estimation of that piece (along with the Mortarchs, obviously) is going up in an MSU world.

 

Edit: multiple generals is also strong as this army will use CP well

One thing I like about Gravelords is that basically all subfactions seem to be viable and that there are several distinct, good builds. I honestly can't predict what will be the tournament build of this book. Kastelai Blood Knights spam looks strong, but Vyrkos, Legion of Night and Legion of Blood all have really good tricks, too. Avengorii might be weaker than the others, but honestly with the buffs to monsters and heroes I am not even sure anymore.

[brattenbergus]

Core Battalions leaked. What do you think? 

Edited June 11, 2021 by brattenbergus

[Nightseer2012]

I wonder how the "Troop vs Monster" distinction will work between Behemoths that are and are not battleline.  If I remember correctly, usually when a Behemoth becomes battleline, it loses Behemoth.  Would it then count as a Troop and specifically NOT a Monster, like in an Avengorii Dynasty list?  That may require an FAQ, or it may be explained on another page.  It would be interesting to be building an Avengorii list and be able to have Lauka Vai + 2 Zombie Dragons, and they would count as a Battle Regiment and be unable to count as a Line Breaker battalion.

*Note that to be a Monster for this list, it is based on having the Behemoth rule, not the Monster keyword, which seems like a poor choice for clarity purposes, lol.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

20 minutes ago, brattenbergus said:

Core Battalions leaked. What do you think? 

I am currently unsure whether or not these cost points, but I don't think they do.

Warlord is a nice battalion: Nearly all lists should be able to fit it, and it gives you an extra command point and "enhancement". We don't know what enhancements are, but my suspicion is that they are artefacts and command traits. If so, this is great for Gravelords. Nearly all subfactions have good choices there you would be glad to take as a bonus.

Battle Regiment allows us to one-drop/low drop, which we realistically could not do before. I don't think we really have an alpha strike list, but maybe there is something we can do in Legion of Night or Kastelai? If not, I am not sure how valuable this is. Maybe it's worth it to ensure you go second turn 1 and have a chance at a double turn later. For what it's worth, the requirements are not hard to meet.

Grand Battery is not a battalion we can use. Everything else is situationally pretty nice, just a free function-locked command point. For example, if you have an extra hero and a unit of Blood Knights that are not in a battalion yet, you can just throw them into a vanguard formation and get once-per-battle run 6/reroll charges for free.

A few things worth noting about the new battalions:

If you need a commander for a battalion, a Leader with less than 10 wounds can fill that role. It's just the opposite that is not allowed: A Leader with 10+ wounds can't fill the sub-commander role. Kritza and Annika are a cheap way to fill a sub-commander spot if you need it. Belladamma is also a sub-commander.

Contrary to what the name implies, for the purpose of battalions, monsters need not have the MONSTER keyword. They need to be behemoths. So a Mortis Engine could fill this role, for example.