AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[swarmofseals]

@Jaxler can you give us an idea of the sample size of games and what opponents you played against?

[Sharklone]

This is going to be my first list I think. Its the kind of list I have always wanted. I might swap out Radukar and some knights for mannfred and more wolves sometimes as well I think. Anyone have any thoughts? I know the Coven throne is an awesome support piece but I'm not into the model enough to paint it.

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty

Leaders
Vengorian Lord (280)
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Fragment of the Keep
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Prince Vhordrai (455)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Radukar the Beast (315)

Battleline
10 x Blood Knights (390)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)

Total: 1965 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116
 

[Jaxler]

42 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

@Jaxler can you give us an idea of the sample size of games and what opponents you played against?

The local meta is basically Slaves to darkness, bone reapers, Skaven, Lumineth, Tree people, cities, orks and more slaves to darkness, and some night haunt. 

I found that death march sucked because skeletons never preformed in any job well in any game (they still broke to morale because replaced models still count for battle shock), and the wight king always got shot off or magically killed. My grave guard either never made it into a good charge, or ended up just being left fighting better, tankier units. Sitting them on objectives seemed like a real waste, especially when they kept getting leaf blow. In every match I played against, I found summonable units were left weak and each opponent had some tool to counter me. The only ok-ish game I had when using them was against nighthaunt. I also found that realistically, I'm only getting maybe 1-2 units back before the game is basically over, and even then, the only unit that does it's job well at half strength is doggos.

zombies got deleted instantly each time after getting 20 in and doing 4 wounds. Van hel's kept getting denied.

In every match, I found doggos were useful as objective nabbing boys, manny was good, bella was good, and vampire lord worth 14 models and 1d3+ on his spear was also good. Blood knights while not OP were able to do their job unlike all the summonable units. 

 

I've came to this conclusion after talking with a lot of people on how to build stuff, and I'm pretty confident I'm right on the dollar. I'm just disappointed that grave guard have too many little issues to actually be worth it. I own 200 skeletons and 60 grave guard and 30 black knights. (people keep giving them to me in lots when I buy other death stuff)

 

Also, as for sample size, I'm looking at like, 8ish games so far. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Jaxler

[swarmofseals]

@Jaxler I'm not too surprised with your analysis (although I think that Zombies are potentially good). Still curious how many games you have played so far.

[Jaxler]

18 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

@Jaxler I'm not too surprised with your analysis (although I think that Zombies are potentially good). Still curious how many games you have played so far.

I've been throwing around a lot of lists, but I cut zombies out rather early. Maybe they can be made good, and I'm by no means word of god, but I'd honestly suggest leaning into units that don't need support to preform. I find the best units to run are the ones for whom buffs simply make them better, instead of trying to get a meh unit to preform. 

[swarmofseals]

13 minutes ago, Jaxler said:

I've been throwing around a lot of lists, but I cut zombies out rather early. Maybe they can be made good, and I'm by no means word of god, but I'd honestly suggest leaning into units that don't need support to preform. I find the best units to run are the ones for whom buffs simply make them better, instead of trying to get a meh unit to preform. 

Fair enough. I haven't actually gotten any games in with SBGL yet but I've quite a good amount of general experience with a bunch of factions against very high level players, so I'm mostly coming from a broad perspective here.

I don't think zombies really need anything to do their job. I can see them in a couple of roles. They are a good for initial screening and area denial as they cover a lot of board space on the cheap. They are reasonably defensively efficient and do a good job of squatting on objectives. Their threat radius is also very reliable because they don't have to charge, and there are some nice edge cases where having the ability to attack without charging can be quite useful (avoiding triggering start of combat phase abilities or charge reactions).

As you know they can also get quite reasonable on offense when buffed (and are more efficient than charging Dire Wolves even when unbuffed, for what it's worth). They don't actually need anything specifically for them -- the best buffers are Mannfred and Radukar, and both of those are potentially worth taking regardless. They aren't there to buff the zombies, but if they happen to be in position to do so then great. I generally agree with you that Blood Knights are likely our top non-hero warscroll, but I can imagine that something like 15 Blood Knights and 80 Zombies could outperform 25 Blood Knights.

I could easily be wrong though.

Also, I don't intend to be confrontational at all but I find it a little odd that you're claiming to have extensive play experience but are being cagey about how many games you've played with the tome. I don't mean this as an insult at all -- it's just very helpful to figure out how to weigh other people's takes.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 hours ago, Jaxler said:

Also, as for sample size, I'm looking at like, 8ish games so far. 

 

1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

Also, I don't intend to be confrontational at all but I find it a little odd that you're claiming to have extensive play experience but are being cagey about how many games you've played with the tome. I don't mean this as an insult at all -- it's just very helpful to figure out how to weigh other people's takes.

I think you missed this edit.

[Jaxler]

1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

Fair enough. I haven't actually gotten any games in with SBGL yet but I've quite a good amount of general experience with a bunch of factions against very high level players, so I'm mostly coming from a broad perspective here.

I don't think zombies really need anything to do their job. I can see them in a couple of roles. They are a good for initial screening and area denial as they cover a lot of board space on the cheap. They are reasonably defensively efficient and do a good job of squatting on objectives. Their threat radius is also very reliable because they don't have to charge, and there are some nice edge cases where having the ability to attack without charging can be quite useful (avoiding triggering start of combat phase abilities or charge reactions).

As you know they can also get quite reasonable on offense when buffed (and are more efficient than charging Dire Wolves even when unbuffed, for what it's worth). They don't actually need anything specifically for them -- the best buffers are Mannfred and Radukar, and both of those are potentially worth taking regardless. They aren't there to buff the zombies, but if they happen to be in position to do so then great. I generally agree with you that Blood Knights are likely our top non-hero warscroll, but I can imagine that something like 15 Blood Knights and 80 Zombies could outperform 25 Blood Knights.

I could easily be wrong though.

Also, I don't intend to be confrontational at all but I find it a little odd that you're claiming to have extensive play experience but are being cagey about how many games you've played with the tome. I don't mean this as an insult at all -- it's just very helpful to figure out how to weigh other people's takes.

The problem with zombies is quite simple. Their dmg output is trash, and the mortals aren't going to do enough. 40, if they all can hit, will do about 6 mortal wounds, and like, not much else. Their dmg is actually quite horrible. Next, anything at all is a threat to them. If they get charged by anything, it'll annihilate them, and those 6 mortals (which is ideal) won't do enough. They can be let to activate first at very little risk. Next, their bodies is true, but doggos both have better movement, and are better at screening. When your save is - then you're taking pretty much insane dmg, and then once leadership hits, you're in for one hell of a bad time. 

Next, to get them to be a viable threat, you need a necromancer and a foot vamp lord. You've suddenly found yourself spending 1 cp, about 250+ on heroes, and need to get off a cast. Using them for dmg isn't viable. Then I suppose you could use them for camping objectives, which they can do, and is the only role they are good at, but in this regard you're left having to pick them or wolves. Wolves offer much more utility for less. Anything that isn't helping them get mortal wounds just doesn't seem that amazing. I feel like getting a few more 0 ap attacks at 1 inch seems bleh. I'd rather have manny and beast boy looking after blood knights or in a monster mash. 

80 zombies seems like it'd last a while, but in practicality 400 points of actual dedicated hammers will erase those 80 zombies pretty fast. Remember, you need to only kill 25 in a unit to erase the rest to morale. a 10 man blob of blood knights dishes out 28 wounds to them at -1, and 7 at 0 ap. If I split those attacks evenly between two blobs of 40, you suddenly are left with only 16-10 zombies in each blob after morale. 

 

Also, I did edit in it's only been 8 games so far, but I've been talking with some other competitive players and more or less there was some consensus. With how things are right now, I don't think anyone's gonna have 50+ sample size or something, so again, don't take what I say as word of god. Still, I wouldn't say zombies are bad, it just seems they're not something you lean on. A single unit of 20 isn't going to be a bad thing. It's cheaper than dire wolves, and not skeletons. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Jaxler

[Rors]

Anyone tried big daddy Nagash? The faction bonus of spells going off twice on a natural 9+ seems like a good buff for him. He has access to the entire lore of death mages which seems the better spell set and harder set to access.

+ He becomes basically unkillable with the right combos in legion of blood.

It's also tempting to think about him with blood knights or zombie dragons as core. If nothing else because I'm lazy and that's probably about as elite as an army can get

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 minutes ago, Rors said:

Anyone tried big daddy Nagash? The faction bonus of spells going off twice on a natural 9+ seems like a good buff for him. He has access to the entire lore of death mages which seems the better spell set and harder set to access.

+ He becomes basically unkillable with the right combos in legion of blood.

It's also tempting to think about him with blood knights or zombie dragons as core. If nothing else because I'm lazy and that's probably about as elite as an army can get

 

Hottest Nagash list of the year coming through! You are about to enter the BONE ZONE 😎

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Night

Leaders
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (975)
Wight King (115)
- General
- Command Trait: Unholy Impetus
- Artefact: Shard of Night

Battleline
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Great Wight Blades
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Great Wight Blades
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 1975 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 91
 

---

To be honest, I find it REALLY hard to build Nagash lists now with him at 975. This one is just a variation on the classic Nagash + 80 Skeletons list. However, I don't think this is the list for Nagash in G-Lords. I think Nagash plus a horde of slow moving infantry is better served in OBR, where he gets more useful spells to keep himself alive as well. At least this list gets to deep strike, I suppose.

 

There was this Nagash + Death Riders list that did well at a few tournaments last year. I think Nagash + Blood Knights might have some advantages over that. Blood Knights are pretty good, and if AoS 3 changes Mystic Shield to give +1 to saves, they will be seriously tanky with Nagash giving everyone that buff every round and reroll saves from his command ability. Something like this:

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty

Leaders
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (975)
- General

Battleline
10 x Blood Knights (390)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
5 x Blood Knights (195)
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 1995 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

[Ghoooouls]

3 hours ago, Jaxler said:

The problem with zombies is quite simple. Their dmg output is trash, and the mortals aren't going to do enough. 40, if they all can hit, will do about 6 mortal wounds, and like, not much else. Their dmg is actually quite horrible. Next, anything at all is a threat to them. If they get charged by anything, it'll annihilate them, and those 6 mortals (which is ideal) won't do enough. They can be let to activate first at very little risk. Next, their bodies is true, but doggos both have better movement, and are better at screening. When your save is - then you're taking pretty much insane dmg, and then once leadership hits, you're in for one hell of a bad time. 

Next, to get them to be a viable threat, you need a necromancer and a foot vamp lord. You've suddenly found yourself spending 1 cp, about 250+ on heroes, and need to get off a cast. Using them for dmg isn't viable. Then I suppose you could use them for camping objectives, which they can do, and is the only role they are good at, but in this regard you're left having to pick them or wolves. Wolves offer much more utility for less. Anything that isn't helping them get mortal wounds just doesn't seem that amazing. I feel like getting a few more 0 ap attacks at 1 inch seems bleh. I'd rather have manny and beast boy looking after blood knights or in a monster mash. 

80 zombies seems like it'd last a while, but in practicality 400 points of actual dedicated hammers will erase those 80 zombies pretty fast. Remember, you need to only kill 25 in a unit to erase the rest to morale. a 10 man blob of blood knights dishes out 28 wounds to them at -1, and 7 at 0 ap. If I split those attacks evenly between two blobs of 40, you suddenly are left with only 16-10 zombies in each blob after morale. 

 

Also, I did edit in it's only been 8 games so far, but I've been talking with some other competitive players and more or less there was some consensus. With how things are right now, I don't think anyone's gonna have 50+ sample size or something, so again, don't take what I say as word of god. Still, I wouldn't say zombies are bad, it just seems they're not something you lean on. A single unit of 20 isn't going to be a bad thing. It's cheaper than dire wolves, and not skeletons. 

From my experience 20 zombies have been more effective for cost than the games I've had units of 40.

Our battle line were never scary or leaned on before... I think from my experience zombies are great now because they can actually pose a threat, on top of being chaff that can be resurrected. This means the enemy has a means to kill them rather than just solely target support heroes.

Same with stuff like GG. GG were okay before, but now they're actually downright scary (if they can get in) so the enemy has to deal with them in one way or another, meaning less is targeting your heroes.

Skeletons I've barely used, but if im honest I'd rather just pay a little more for 20 zombies that can fulfil the same role and more.

Dire wolves are still great, fast chaff that can clean up weak targets and pester.

The only unit I've found to be utter useless is the black knights, which is a shame. Theyre 15 points less than dire wolves. You're trading 10 inch move for 12 inches, worse attacks on the charge and 10 less wounds than a unit of 10 dogs. I just think every single time I'd spend the 15 extra points for 10 more wounds and 5 extra models to attack.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

From my experience 20 zombies have been more effective for cost than the games I've had units of 40.

Our battle line were never scary or leaned on before... I think from my experience zombies are great now because they can actually pose a threat, on top of being chaff that can be resurrected. This means the enemy has a means to kill them rather than just solely target support heroes.

Same with stuff like GG. GG were okay before, but now they're actually downright scary (if they can get in) so the enemy has to deal with them in one way or another, meaning less is targeting your heroes.

Skeletons I've barely used, but if im honest I'd rather just pay a little more for 20 zombies that can fulfil the same role and more.

Dire wolves are still great, fast chaff that can clean up weak targets and pester.

The only unit I've found to be utter useless is the black knights, which is a shame. Theyre 15 points less than dire wolves. You're trading 10 inch move for 12 inches, worse attacks on the charge and 10 less wounds than a unit of 10 dogs. I just think every single time I'd spend the 15 extra points for 10 more wounds and 5 extra models to attack.

This is basically how I see it, too.

I played a Deathmarch list before, so I mostly have experience with Deathrattle units. Skeletons never really killed anything for me before they got their new warscroll, and they don't kill anything now. You could heal them a lot before through Deathly Invocations, and they heal a lot on their warscroll now. For me, they are basically the same thing as before, but with a slightly better save and slightly lower max unit size. They are 30 bodies that can sit on an objective and reasonably hold it. That's a good deal at 85 points for 10.

I have no personal experience with Zombies, but I found this quote from Sam Morgan on the Honest Wargamer stream interesting (paraphrasing): "What people don't yet understand about Zombies is that they just die. They are a good unit, but they just die." For those who don't know, Sam Morgan is the ListLab guy and he used to run Zombies as his battleline in Grand Alliance: Death to good success in tournaments in the past (I think a second place somewhere as recently as a month or two ago). Personally, I think the value of zombies comes from their huge body and wound count for their price, and their 6" pile in. I think that should make them good in the mid field for capturing and hindering enemy movement, even if they "just die". All educated guessing, though.

Direwolves are basically the same as before: A bunch of hard-to-remove, fast bodies on big bases for cheap. That will always be a useful unit to have.

All our unconditional battleline are what I would call "trash units". By which I mean that they are cheap units that provide a lot of their value from giving a lot of bodies and wounds for their points, not necessarily from their offensive or defensive capabilities. Above all, they are good value with their incidental healing and resurrection. I think pouring a lot of support into them is a trap. Anything more than one dedicated hero for a max-size unit (30 Skeletons with a Necromancer, 40 Zombies with a Vampire Lord...) seem like overspending to me.

[Jaxler]

22 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

This is basically how I see it, too.

I played a Deathmarch list before, so I mostly have experience with Deathrattle units. Skeletons never really killed anything for me before they got their new warscroll, and they don't kill anything now. You could heal them a lot before through Deathly Invocations, and they heal a lot on their warscroll now. For me, they are basically the same thing as before, but with a slightly better save and slightly lower max unit size. They are 30 bodies that can sit on an objective and reasonably hold it. That's a good deal at 85 points for 10.

I have no personal experience with Zombies, but I found this quote from Sam Morgan on the Honest Wargamer stream interesting (paraphrasing): "What people don't yet understand about Zombies is that they just die. They are a good unit, but they just die." For those who don't know, Sam Morgan is the ListLab guy and he used to run Zombies as his battleline in Grand Alliance: Death to good success in tournaments in the past (I think a second place somewhere as recently as a month or two ago). Personally, I think the value of zombies comes from their huge body and wound count for their price, and their 6" pile in. I think that should make them good in the mid field for capturing and hindering enemy movement, even if they "just die". All educated guessing, though.

Direwolves are basically the same as before: A bunch of hard-to-remove, fast bodies on big bases for cheap. That will always be a useful unit to have.

All our unconditional battleline are what I would call "trash units". By which I mean that they are cheap units that provide a lot of their value from giving a lot of bodies and wounds for their points, not necessarily from their offensive or defensive capabilities. Above all, they are good value with their incidental healing and resurrection. I think pouring a lot of support into them is a trap. Anything more than one dedicated hero for a max-size unit (30 Skeletons with a Necromancer, 40 Zombies with a Vampire Lord...) seem like overspending to me.

keep in mind, 10 dire wolves barf out 20 attacks 4s and 4s. black knights barf out 10 attacks 4s and 4s, 10 attacks 4s and 3s. Also, wolves get to wound all those attacks on 3s if they charge. Basically it's the same amount of damage between the two per point. You are correct on black knights being trash, but it's even worse =B

[JackStreicher]

@Jaxlerthsnks for all your input. It‘s very interesting and confirms my worries concerning zombies.

did you try to make a blob of Skeletons more survivable with a corpse cart?

[Honk]

24 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Anything more than one dedicated hero for a max-size unit (30 Skeletons with a Necromancer, 40 Zombies with a Vampire Lord...) seem like overspending to me.

Especially with the „only one heal“ cap. Before that I had 60 zombies, vamp necro and a corpse cart as Death Star, and it was big and unwieldy, but fun to play. The regen was absurd and the damage output with vamp ca and can hels scary...

but without re regen big blobs are kinda useless and the damage output is lacking. 
msu and puppies are also big now, with belladamma 

 

only big blob that might be ok are graveguard 

[Jaxler]

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

@Jaxlerthsnks for all your input. It‘s very interesting and confirms my worries concerning zombies.

did you try to make a blob of Skeletons more survivable with a corpse cart?

The corpse cart just ate arrows, or magic. 6 wounds on a 6+ is a bit squishy. The local skaven player's snipers and shooty r-ogres enjoyed mulching it. Lumineth just tear most the synergies in the book to death if they take one or two units of shooty boys.  We also don't have a skylords player, but I can only imagine how that'd go. 

 

I wasn't using it vs the tree people player, but his everqueen probably just zaps a cart a turn at range. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Jaxler

[Honk]

Just now, Jaxler said:

just ate arrows, or magic

Just too bad, the age of big centerpieces... never really was there, but is now gone for ever. Lumineth and flamers... indirect fire with mortal wounds 🙈😖

But i think we have great units that are not that hero dependent, wolves, bloodknights, vargheists... things that need to be considered. Even the trash mobs get their save from the sites now and can be left alone defending scoring something.

So sad we lost our bats, but the target priority for shooting is not that obvious anymore...

[Jaxler]

10 minutes ago, Honk said:

Just too bad, the age of big centerpieces... never really was there, but is now gone for ever. Lumineth and flamers... indirect fire with mortal wounds 🙈😖

But i think we have great units that are not that hero dependent, wolves, bloodknights, vargheists... things that need to be considered. Even the trash mobs get their save from the sites now and can be left alone defending scoring something.

So sad we lost our bats, but the target priority for shooting is not that obvious anymore...

Hear me out, the vampire lord on zombie dragon, manny, and the beast all are pretty good. I'd lean on those as well. I personally enjoy the vampire dragon lord manny gank squad rolling up to punk everyone in sight. Also manny if he charges stuff is always going to be ready to buff whatever he wants in a pinch. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Jaxler

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

38 minutes ago, Honk said:

only big blob that might be ok are graveguard 

I still think 30 skeletons and a necromancer are worth considering, since they are just about the most anvilly horde we have. You need to be prepared to shell out those command points for inspiring presence, though.

31 minutes ago, Honk said:

But i think we have great units that are not that hero dependent, wolves, bloodknights, vargheists... things that need to be considered. Even the trash mobs get their save from the sites now and can be left alone defending scoring something.

I have been building lists a lot more like Cities of Sigmar, in that I focus on power pairs now. In LoN, your general had to stay close to grave sites to resurrect, your units had to stay close to your general to protect them and your heroes had to stay close to your units to heal. All of those limitations have been removed in Gravelords. You can now just pair up a unit with a hero and send them on their way to do their own thing. I think the new book has a seriously good potential to spread out and threaten objectives from multiple angles since all our units can act much more independetly now, especially with the new deep strike/resurrection rules. You really don't need to lean into the death star anymore.

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I still think 30 skeletons and a necromancer are worth considering, since they are just about the most anvilly horde we have. You need to be prepared to shell out those command points for inspiring presence, though.

I have been building lists a lot more like Cities of Sigmar, in that I focus on power pairs now. In LoN, your general had to stay close to grave sites to resurrect, your units had to stay close to your general to protect them and your heroes had to stay close to your units to heal. All of those limitations have been removed in Gravelords. You can now just pair up a unit with a hero and send them on their way to do their own thing. I think the new book has a seriously good potential to spread out and threaten objectives from multiple angles since all our units can act much more independetly now, especially with the new deep strike/resurrection rules. You really don't need to lean into the death star anymore.

That‘s usually how I like to play: one contingent of the army led by a hero ^^

[Nightseer2012]

5 hours ago, Rors said:

Anyone tried big daddy Nagash? The faction bonus of spells going off twice on a natural 9+ seems like a good buff for him. He has access to the entire lore of death mages which seems the better spell set and harder set to access.

+ He becomes basically unkillable with the right combos in legion of blood.

It's also tempting to think about him with blood knights or zombie dragons as core. If nothing else because I'm lazy and that's probably about as elite as an army can get

 

I mean... I don't know how you would win with this besides just hyper aggression, but...

(Avengorii Dynasty)

Nagash + 3 Zombie Dragons + Umbral Spellportal = 1930 points

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

17 minutes ago, Nightseer2012 said:

I mean... I don't know how you would win with this besides just hyper aggression, but...

(Avengorii Dynasty)

Nagash + 3 Zombie Dragons + Umbral Spellportal = 1930 points

• "How big is your list?"
• "Four."
• "Four drops?"
• "No. Four models."

[Belmail]

5 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

• "How big is your list?"
• "Four."
• "Four drops?"
• "No. Four models."

Smaller than SoB lists lol

[BaylorCorvette]

On 5/28/2021 at 7:08 PM, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

Why? Because GW wants us to always play with named characters to maximize that bonus? I'm skeptical.

Because GW has said before that there will be ways to generate more CPs in 3.0 and this past weekends unboxing video of Dominion said that Heroes, specifically Generals will have a larger role to play in your army. Maybe Generals get you more CPs or maybe Generals allow for charge reactions or something. But I definitely do not think it is a coincidence that recent books are getting updates that say model X counts as being a General in addition to the model you select to be your General.

In regards to the Zombie discussion, I never really saw them as being a reliable damage dealer. Rather they could function in a couple of different ways. The first is cheap body count and the second is using their 6" activate and pile in. I think a unit of 20 could support another chaff line or even something more durable. The way this would function is that  the enemy engages (or you engage) with another unit and then activate and pile in 6" with Zombies, this ensures that the enemy unit is now tied up in combat with a unit of zombies (that shouldn't have taken damage that round) plus something else. I see it as a possible sneaky way of buying time tying up an enemies key unit. Obviously Zombies are slow, so it will definitely take some planning to pull off successfully.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

13 hours ago, Belmail said:

Smaller than SoB lists lol

I guess that's what people mean when they call AoS a skirmish game.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep