Soulblight Gravelords FAQ question collection

[RuneBrush]

3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think it's contentious because I believe the core rules say it works one way, but the Flesh Eater Courts FAQ say it works the opposite.

So really, we need an FAQ (or battalions being dropped from matched play in AoS 3).

Fully expect the latter!

[vlad3theimpaler]

17 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think it's contentious because I believe the core rules say it works one way, but the Flesh Eater Courts FAQ say it works the opposite.

So really, we need an FAQ (or battalions being dropped from matched play in AoS 3).

The Flesh-Eater Court Errata changes the battalion organization for Royal Family, it doesn't say to change the rules in the core book.  It seems a lot of people are interpreting it as saying that the core book rules should be read differently for all battalions for all factions, but that's not what the actual errata says at all.

This is the text of the errata:

 

Quote

 

Page 73 – Warscroll Battalions, Royal Family

Change the battalion organisation to: ‘A Royal Family consists of the following units:

• 1 Abhorrant Archregent, or 1 Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist, or 1 Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon

• 2-6 Abhorrant Ghoul Kings that do not have mounts’

 

That's pretty specific in what it affects.  I get why people might hear that the flesh-eater courts battalion has a certain ruling, and try to generalize that to other armies, but looking at the actual text, it seems pretty clear to me that nothing changed in the rules for how to read battalion organizations; what changed was the organization requirements for this specific battalion. 

If they actually wanted to change the rules for battalions in general, I would think that they would have done so in the faq for the core rules, which was published on the same date.  I don't think the problem is ambiguity in the rules; I think it's people making assumptions about the rules rather than looking at what they actually say.

 

Of course, it's entirely possible that these battalions are going away with the new rules, which would render the whole thing moot.

[Sception]

Looks like confimation that a retreat and a normal move are two different things in 3e, which means blood knights will be able to leave combat and charge again in the same turn.

[texhnology]

Yea according to the new rules you can make a normal move, a retreat move or a run move. They are all different.

this is the wording:

 

In your movement phase, you can pick 1 friendly unit that is more than 3" from all enemy units and declare that it will make a normal move
or that it will run, or you can pick 1 friendly unit that is within 3" of an enemy unit and declare that it will retreat.

[Aturox]

Considering the new rules if i itend to use belladamma volga and cast under a killing moon while near a unir of graveguard i got to decide if i take the doublehit or mortal?

But with all the auras we got right now its pretty nice.. You could still play mannfred + radukar + wightking specific buff on graveguard and they wouldnt be able to reduce the hit/wound ratios beyond standard profile and rerolling to hit on 1 and + 1 Attack

Even the "bad heroes" will be playable since you can use every comand ability only once and with 2-3 generals + hero comand generation wont be lacking

Edited June 14, 2021 by Aturox

[Liquidsteel]

1 hour ago, Aturox said:

Considering the new rules if i itend to use belladamma volga and cast under a killing moon while near a unir of graveguard i got to decide if i take the doublehit or mortal?

But with all the auras we got right now its pretty nice.. You could still play mannfred + radukar + wightking specific buff on graveguard and they wouldnt be able to reduce the hit/wound ratios beyond standard profile and rerolling to hit on 1 and + 1 Attack

Even the "bad heroes" will be playable since you can use every comand ability only once and with 2-3 generals + hero comand generation wont be lacking

No because Under a Killing Moon provides two hits on the hit roll and Grave Guard do MWs on the Wound Roll.

 

One effect per dice roll so they benefit from both! 

[Aturox]

9 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

No because Under a Killing Moon provides two hits on the hit roll and Grave Guard do MWs on the Wound Roll.

 

One effect per dice roll so they benefit from both! 

Didnt notice that 😁thanks!

So you could still buff the hell out of them 🥳

[StokieRich]

One more from me that is more of a, " is this correct"

As it stands a character who takes Morbhegs claw can make a Run move as it is only restricted from performing a Normal Move, Shoot, Charge, is this intended?

 

Details:

Morbheg’s Claw

This blackened talon is said to belong to Morbheg, father of Terrorgheists.
In your hero phase, you can say that the bearer will carve sigils into the ground using Morbheg’s claw. If you do so, add 2 to casting rolls for friendly LEGION OF NIGHT WIZARDS wholly within 12" of the bearer until your next hero phase. However, the bearer cannot make a normal move, make a charge move, shoot or fight until your next hero phase.

8.1 NORMAL MOVE
When you pick a unit to make a normal move, you can move each 
model in that unit a distance in inches equal to or less than the 
Move characteristic shown on the unit’s warscroll. Units cannot move 
within 3" of enemy units when making a normal move.

8.2 RETREAT
When you pick a unit to retreat, you can move each model in that unit a 
distance in inches equal to or less than the Move characteristic shown on 
the unit’s warscroll. The unit must end the move more than 3" from all 
enemy units. You cannot shoot or attempt a charge later in the turn with 
a unit that has retreated.

8.3 RUN
When you pick a unit to run, you must make a run roll for the unit by 
rolling a dice. Add the run roll to the Move characteristic of all models 
in the unit until the end of that phase. You can then move each model 
in that unit a distance in inches equal to or less than their modified 
Move characteristic. No part of a run can be within 3" of an enemy 
unit. You cannot shoot or attempt a charge later in the turn with a unit 
that has run

Edited June 23, 2021 by StokieRich

[Liquidsteel]

It's a good point, one that may likely be fixed in the day 1 FAQ's but certainly wonky with the new core rules.

I have another to share.

Vyrkos Dynasty, Command Trait "Spoor Trackers" allows a unit to make a normal move of 3" in the hero phase.

In 3,0 this effectively allows that unit to retreat without penalty, then proceed to make a normal move and charge later in the same turn.

Could be quite powerful if not addressed, as I can't see it being intended.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

31 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

It's a good point, one that may likely be fixed in the day 1 FAQ's but certainly wonky with the new core rules.

I have another to share.

Vyrkos Dynasty, Command Trait "Spoor Trackers" allows a unit to make a normal move of 3" in the hero phase.

In 3,0 this effectively allows that unit to retreat without penalty, then proceed to make a normal move and charge later in the same turn.

Could be quite powerful if not addressed, as I can't see it being intended.

I think you were able to do this with in Legions of Nagash with Mastery of Death for a while, but that eventually got fixed. So yeah, probably unintended.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread! Some of the questions we collected definitely made it into the FAQ

[ZLee Syn]

If you have 40 zombies. 12 dies. Then you get 15 new one.

You are at 43.

Can you use invigorating aura/gravesites... to bring back 12 more?

[Liquidsteel]

Good question, though I don't think so, as you are limited to starting unit size when dealing with resurrection mechanics.

I think so anyway.

[ZLee Syn]

1 hour ago, Liquidsteel said:

Good question, though I don't think so, as you are limited to starting unit size when dealing with resurrection mechanics.

I think so anyway.

You are limited by slain models. This is not an issue

You are also limited by maximum unit size. And we dont know if that is starting size or double reinforced size

[BoneHeart]

Can I use deathly invocation and invigorating aura on units brought back by endless legions to bring the unit back to its original size?

for example a unit of 20 zombies died, 10 comes back, and I use invigorating aura and deathly invocation to bring back 3+d3 more.

Thanks

[ZLee Syn]

2 hours ago, BoneHeart said:

Can I use deathly invocation and invigorating aura on units brought back by endless legions to bring the unit back to its original size?

for example a unit of 20 zombies died, 10 comes back, and I use invigorating aura and deathly invocation to bring back 3+d3 more.

Thanks

No because the replacement unit doesnt have any slain models.

So there are none to heal

[BoneHeart]

Thank you

[Wordy9th]

I have a game coming up in august and haven't played AoS for some time.

 

1) Can Graveguard with shields benefit from mystic shield?

2) Can a hero with soulbound garments benefit from mystic shield?

3) Does mannfred/radukar's bubble count as the units receiving a command ability? 

4) Can I use the flaming weapon spell on a Vlozd's claw attacks?

5) How does Radukar the wolf compare to a standard Vampire Lord?

6) If I pass a wound to Kosargi, can they use their ward save?

7) What's the main use of the 6 inch pile in? To move within 6 inches of an enemy and bypass the need to charge? I assume you can't simply charge and add the 6 inch pile in to the roll.

Thanks!

 

 

 

[Liquidsteel]

40 minutes ago, Wordy9th said:

I have a game coming up in august and haven't played AoS for some time.

 

1) Can Graveguard with shields benefit from mystic shield? Yes, but at best their save can be 4+, each additional +1 to save cancels out each -1 of rend.

2) Can a hero with soulbound garments benefit from mystic shield? Yes but same caveat as above, the +1 save is the best they can have, each additional +1 only serves to counter each point of -1 rend.

3) Does mannfred/radukar's bubble count as the units receiving a command ability? Only for Mannfred/Radukar themselves, see latest FAQ for the core rules. So Mannfred cannot use anything else in the Hero Phase, and Radukar cannot use anything else in the Combat Phase

4) Can I use the flaming weapon spell on a Vlozd's claw attacks? I believe so, yes, as it's a spell. Generally Command Traits and Artefacts are prohibited from being used on mounts.

5) How does Radukar the wolf compare to a standard Vampire Lord? Seems good. CA is not point and click and requires a charge, but overall seems decent especially as he can have bodyguards.

6) If I pass a wound to Kosargi, can they use their ward save? Yes, but you don't get a Ward Save on Radukar in advance.

7) What's the main use of the 6 inch pile in? To move within 6 inches of an enemy and bypass the need to charge? I assume you can't simply charge and add the 6 inch pile in to the roll. Yes you can bypass the charge and therefore Unleash Hell or Parting Shot etc. No you cannot add pile in distance to charge rolls. It also means you can keep the unit safe from being hit first.

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[Wordy9th]

Just now, Liquidsteel said:

 

Thanks a bunch! 🙂

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 hours ago, Wordy9th said:

What's the main use of the 6 inch pile in? To move within 6 inches of an enemy and bypass the need to charge? I assume you can't simply charge and add the 6 inch pile in to the roll.

@Liquidsteel gave really good answers to all your other questions, but this one is worth looking at a bit more closely. There are a few mechanical interactions with 6" pile ins that make them kinda complicated, but very powerful.

First off, you need to be aware that there are two different version of a 6" pile-in in the Gravelords tome. The first version is like the ones that Zombies get, piling in a distance of 6" and from 6" away. The second is like the one that you get from the Sanguine Blur command trait, piling in a distance of 6", but not from further away (so only from the regular 3" distance).

There are two ways that a unit gets to make a pile-in move: They have to either be within their pile-in distance (usually 3", but could be 6" as mentioned above) or have to have completed a charge move. If a unit has made a charge move but is outside of pile-in distance, it still gets to pile in. This can happen if the unit you charged originally is destroyed before you could fight it, for example. Or with Mannfred von Carstein, when he charges a unit but then teleports out of combat with his Mortarch of the Night ability.

 

Anyway, why is pile in 6" so good? Because it allows you to gain the effect of several other abilities in a roundabout way.

Run and charge: If you run with a unit, it cannot charge the same turn. But if you can pile in from 6" away, you can run within 6" of an enemy unit and just pile in to get into combat, no charge needed.

Retreat and charge: Similarly, you can't charge with a unit that retreated in the same turn. But nothing prevents you from retreating with a unit and later piling in 6" to get into combat again.

Preventing your enemy from targeting you: If you have a unit that can pile in from 6" away hanging around outside of 3" in the combat phase, you can wait until your enemy has already activated their units before piling them in. You can keep certain units safe that way. Note that with the newest version of the core rules, your opponent will get to fight back if your unit moves within 3" of theirs at any point during combat as long as they have not yet activated that unit yet, so you can't prevent your opponent from fighting back completely this way.

Piling in over the top of the opponent: If you have a unit that can fly and has a 6" pile in, it's often possible to jump over your opponent's line in the combat phase, since you only have to end up closer to the enemy unit after piling in as you were before. This can help you get around screens, trap units or contest objectives.

EDIT: Almost forgot one of the most important new uses for a 6" pile-in: It helps you get around Unleash Hell, because your opponent can only Unleash Hell as a reaction to getting charged. If you don't charge, they don't get to react.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Wordy9th]

Thanks as always for the in depth response.

Just a couple more questions:

1) On enhancements, must my first command trait and artifact always be from the sub faction list? EG: if playing Vyrkos I must choose from artefacts such as Sangsyron first, before I can choose another hero to receive a 'default' one like the 5+ ward save? In which case, is the only way to gain a 'default' artifact by picking a battalion that grants an extra one?

2) Does Belladammas exploding 6s allow for double mortal wounds on rolls of 6 for zombies? Or do I have to choose one of them?

3) If Radukar takes a wound with his Kosargi bodyguard, what's the precise sequence? is it, Hit>Wound>Save>2+ pass to Nightguard who then>Save>Ward? I understand they can't both ward save but can they both save?

Cheers!

 

[StokieRich]

1.) Yes

2.) Choose one

3.) Hit>Wound>Save>Transfer>Ward

[Liquidsteel]

2 hours ago, StokieRich said:

1.) Yes

 

I missed this part of the rules and thought the opposite, but good spot.

If anyone wants the ruling it's below:

27.4 SUBFACTION ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES
Sometimes the rules for a subfaction will give you access to a further set
of allegiance abilities. If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include
a command trait and the general of your army has the keyword for that
subfaction, then that command trait must be the one you give to your
general. If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include an artefact
of power and any Heroes in your army have the keyword for that
subfaction, then that artefact of power must be the first artefact of power
given to one of those Heroes.

[Wordy9th]

I've certainly seen more than one bat rep where the artifact rule hasn't been understood properly