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Soulblight Gravelords FAQ question collection


Neil Arthur Hotep

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This is a thread to collect questions to send to GW for the Soulblight Gravelords FAQs once the books officially comes out. The general plan is to build an easily readable, complete community list of questions and have as many people as possible submit it to AoSFAQ@gwplc.com after the book comes out.

Be sure to wait until we have access to the full books and more or less have a consensus that the list is complete before sending an email to GW. If they get a several slightly different, but similar looking questions they will be more likely to overlook late additions to the list.

EDIT: I have now made the final overhaul of our collected questions. I think they should be fine to submit in this form. I have also put the old phrasing in a spoiler tag at the end.

 

 

Allegiance abilities and spell lores:

If a unit is slain, how often can it be selected as a target for resurrection through the "Endless Legions" allegiance ability?

Can a slain unit be selected as a target for "Endless Legions" even if a replacement unit that was previously added to the of the army by selecting this same unit for "Endless Legions" is still currently on the field?

Do the Legions of Blood command trait "Sanguine Blur" and the Vyrkos Dynasty artefact "Cloak of the Night Prowler" allow you to start a pile-in move from 6" away?

Can a unit benefit from the "Deathly Invocation" allegiance ability more than once in one turn if the ability is used by different heroes?

How does the "Vile Transference" spell from the Lore of Vampires interact with large units of single models with low wounds characteristics? E.g.: If Vile Transference is cast on a unit of 10 Freeguild Guard with 1 wound per model, do you roll 5 dice or 1 die? Furthermore, "Vile Transference" does not deal any damage, contrary to what its name implies and to its previous mechanics in Legions of Nagash. Is this correct?

What happens if the "Amethystine Pinions" spell from the Lore of Vampires is affected by the "Locus of Shyish" allegiance ability?

Unit warscrolls and battalions:

Can you try to obtain a replacement unit for Kritza the Rat Prince through his "Scurrying Retreat" ability even if a replacement unit for Kritza was previously obtained and is still on the field?

Since replacement units for Kritza the Rat Prince are identical to the original, does this mean that them being slain results in extra chances to obtain replacement units through "Scurrying Retreat"?

How do you make use the Wight King's (both on foot and on steed) "Lord of Bones" ability? It has an effect that seems to belong in the combat phase, but ends in the hero phase. Furthermore, it seems to be effectively identical to the generic "All-Out Attack" command ability.

Can you charge with a unit of Blood Knights after making a move out of combat using their "Riders of Ruin" ability or does this move have to be a retreat?

If Blood Knights are granted the ability to fly, do they still deal mortal wounds with their "Riders of Ruin" ability when they pass over models?

When does the effect of Belladamma Volga's command ability "Pack Alpha" end?

How does the Vargheists' "Blood-maddened Feeding Frenzy" ability interact with Belladama Volga's "Under a Killing Moon" spell? Does this combination result in 2, 3 or 4 extra hits?

Can a unit of Deadwalker Zombies grow above it's starting or maximum unit size through the "Newly Dead" ability?

Can Mannfred von Karstein make a pile in move if he charges a unit and then uses his "Mortarch of Night" ability to teleport out of combat? How do you determine whether models were slain by Mannfred's Gheistvor as opposed to other melee proviles he has for the purpose of "Sword of Unholy Power"?

Does giving an artefact that allows a character to ignore rend -1 (such as the Plate of Perfect Protection realm artefact of Chamon) to the Vengorian Lord allow them to effectively ignore rend -2 in combination with the rend reduction from their "Nightmare's Miasma" ability?

Can the Red Banqueters battalion contain Vampire Lords on Zombie Dragon?

Miscellaneous questions:

Is it correct that Black Knights lose access to their "Crypt Shields" ability but do not get an overall +1 to saves from their old warscroll, as is the case with all other units with this ability? Furthermore, why do Black Knights have a joke warscroll? ;)

The Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon warscroll no longer contains the "Chalice of Blood" ability or a command ability, while Prince Vhrodrai retains both. Is this correct?

The damage profile of Prince Vhordrai's "Breath of Shyish" is now d6 (down from 6 previously) for his top damage bracket. Is this correct?

Is it possible to take the models from Radukar's Court (Radukar the Wolf, Groslav the Gravekeeper, Torgillus the Chamberlain, Watch Captain Halgrim, Vyrkos Bloodborn, Vargskyr and Kosargi Nightguard) in a list individually?

Since Blood Knights can take Lances, is their reach of 1" correct?

 

 

Spoiler

 

Probable errata

These questions rules have a high chance of being genuinely faulty and the aim of asking them is to get them fixed.

 

The "Endless Legions" allegiance ability currently seems to allow for the perpetual resurrection of one unit that was slain. Even if it has been resurrected before. Even if the replacement is still on the field.

Is this intended?

Kritza the Rat Prince currently seems to attempt to resurrect through his "Scurrying Retreat" ability every round after he has been slain. Even if a Kritza model is still on the field. Furthermore, additional Kritza models obtained through his ability that are later slain seem to provide additional chances to resurrect more models.

E.g.: Round 1 Kritza dies. This triggers one roll to obtain a new Kritza model on a 4+. Round 2 he is resurrected, and the new copy dies. This, combined with the previous trigger, now triggers two rolls to obtain a Kritza model on a 4+.

Is this intended?

The Wight Kings' "Lord of Bones" command ability is only usable in the hero phase and lasts until the end of that phase. However, it provides an effect that seems to belong in the combat phase.

Furthermore, the "Lord of Bones" seems to be a strictly inferior version of the generic "All-out Attack" command ability (even if it were to work in the combat phase).

Is this intended?

The Blood Knights' "Riders of Ruin" ability currently does not allow them to charge after making a normal move out of combat with this ability, as they would have to make a retreat.

Is this intended?

When does Belladamma Volga's command ability "Pack Alpha" end?


Clarification

Although these rules are probably not faulty, the aim of asking whether they are correct is to get an official statement that they are working as intended.

 

The Legion of Blood command trait "Sanguine Blur" grants units an additional 3" pile in distance, but does not let them pile in from 3" further away.

Is this intended?

Deadwalker Zombie units can currently grow above their starting and maximum unit sizes through the "Newly Dead" ability.

Is this intended?

Mannfred von Karstein's "Mortarch of Night" ability currently allows him to make a pile in move if he charges a unit and then uses the ability to teleport out of combat.

Is this intended?

If Blood Knights are granted the ability to fly, do they still deal mortal wounds with their "Riders of Ruin" ability when they pass over models?

How does the "Vile Transference" spell from Lore of Vampires interact with large units of single models with low wounds characteristics?

E.g.: If Vile Transference is cast on a unit of 10 Freeguild Guard with 1 wound per model, do you roll 5 dice or 1 die?

Furthermore, "Vile Transference" does not deal any damage, contrary to what its name implies and to its mechanics in Legions of Nagash.

Is this intended?

Can the Red Banqueters battalion contain Vampire Lords on Zombie Dragon?

Does giving an artefact that allows a character to ignore rend -1 (such as the Plate of Perfect Protection realm artefact of Chamon) to the Vengorian Lord allow them to effectively ignore rend -2 in combination with the rend reduction of their "Nightmare's Miasma" ability?

How does the Vargheists' "Blood-maddened Feeding Frenzy" ability interact with Belladama Volga's "Under a Killing Moon" spell? Does this combination result in 2, 3 or 4 extra hits?

 

Incredulity based

These questions are mostly there to inform GW that it's hard to believe these changes are intentional.

 

The "Deathly Invocation" ability currently allows a summonable unit to only benefit from it once per turn, as opposed to once per turn per hero with the ability as it was in Legions of Nagash.

Is this intended?

Black Knights seem to have a joke warscroll.

Is this intended? ;)

Specifially, even though Black Knights have lost their Crypt Shields ability, they have not received +1 to saves like other units that previously had this ability. Was this an oversight?

The damage profile of Prince Vhordrai's "Breath of Shyish" is now d6 (down from 6 previously) for his top damage bracket. Is this correct?

The Lore of Vampires spell "Amethystine Pinions" does not seem to benefit from the "Locus of Shyish" allegiance ability at all. Is this correct?

The Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon warscroll no longer contains the "Chalice of Blood" ability or a command ability, while Prince Vhrodrai retains both. Is this correct?

Is it possible to take the models from Radukar's Court (Radukar the Wolf, Groslav the Gravekeeper, Torgillus the Chamberlain, Watch Captain Halgrim, Vyrkos Bloodborn, Vargskyr and Kosargi Nightguard) in a list individually?

Since Blood Knights can take Lances, is their reach of 1" correct?

 

 

Edited by Neil Arthur Hotep
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5 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

-does vargheists exploding 6 stack with volga's?
-does riders of ruin allow to charge after using the normal move?
 

Thanks! Riders of Ruin is already in, but I will add the Vargheist question.

Also a question about how the Vengorian Lord rend decrase interacts with "ignore rend -1" from Plate of Perfect Protection (Chamon realm artefact).

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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Can the Red Banqueters battalion contain Vampire Lords on Zombie Dragon?

I'm under the impression this is answered in the core rules: 

"The organisation section of a 
battalion lists the titles or keywords 
for the units it can or must include. If 
an entry is the title of a unit, any unit 
with that title can be used (you can 
ignore sub-headers under the title 
unless they are included in the entry 
for the unit
). Understrength units 
(pg 13) cannot be used as part of a 
warscroll battalion." AoS Core Rules p.15

Given the VLoZD is "Vampire Lord" sub-header "On a zombie dragon" it can be used in the battalion. I'd wager they didn't use the keyword to prevent taking named vampire heroes.

Another example of this are the two Nighthaunt battalions with "Guardian of Souls" as a requirement. There isn't a Guardian of Souls warscroll but there are "Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern" and "Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass" (RIP  😭) warscrolls.

Edited by Egalogalis
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Just now, Egalogalis said:

I'm under the impression this is answered in the core rules: 

"The organisation section of a 
battalion lists the titles or keywords 
for the units it can or must include. If 
an entry is the title of a unit, any unit 
with that title can be used (you can 
ignore sub-headers under the title 
unless they are included in the entry 
for the unit
). Understrength units 
(pg 13) cannot be used as part of a 
warscroll battalion." AoS Core Rules p.15

Given the VLoZD is "Vampire Lord" sub-header "On a zombie dragon" it can be used in the battalion. I'd wager they didn't use the keyword to prevent taking named vampire heroes.

Another example of this are the two Nighthaunt battalions with "Guardian of Souls" as a requirement. There isn't a Guardian of Souls warscroll but there are "Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern" and "Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass" (RIP  😭) warscrolls.

I believe so, too. But the reason for putting this in the FAQ question list is that many people still got confused by it and I have been seeing people argue it both ways online. The hope is that GW will provide us with a specific answer to this question that new players can easily find if they look at the Gravelords FAQ.

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Is it worth adding to the Wight King one saying "even if if this meant to be combat not hero phase, there is literally a generic CA that does the same thing with no keyword restrictions, is this intended?"  Maybe could be phrased more diplomatically but like the BKs another one to get across the "why is this unit so trash" ;)

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1 minute ago, Liquidsteel said:

The issue with that Ega, whilst yes it respects core rules, is that they FAQ'd the Royal Family Battalion for FEC to prohibit mounted Ghoul Kings.

As it stands it's allowed, but precedence says no, so good to get an FAQ on it.

Ah I wasn't aware of that, I'm not familiar with the FEC rules.

That's a shame, I guess I was premature in buying a second zombie dragon kit with ny pre-order

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5 minutes ago, Benlisted said:

Is it worth adding to the Wight King one saying "even if if this meant to be combat not hero phase, there is literally a generic CA that does the same thing with no keyword restrictions, is this intended?"  Maybe could be phrased more diplomatically but like the BKs another one to get across the "why is this unit so trash" ;)

I'll throw it in.

EDIT: I imagine it is intentional, though. I suspect All-out Attack will go away in AoS 3 or become +1 to hit.

Edited by Neil Arthur Hotep
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2 minutes ago, Egalogalis said:

Ah I wasn't aware of that, I'm not familiar with the FEC rules.

That's a shame, I guess I was premature in buying a second zombie dragon kit with ny pre-order

Nah it will see use. Even without the Battalion, Vhordrai + VLoZD is doable, plus you can potentially magnetise the riders or just leave them loose, and you get the option to run the beasts if you like.

Edited by Liquidsteel
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2 minutes ago, Jee said:

Hi guys, good initiative!

Could you please add a question about the fact that the VLoZD missing his command ability and chalice of blood? It is intended or unintentional error?

Thanks!

Kinda on the fence about this one, I think that's pretty clearly intentional. I'm a bit hesitant to include every rules nerf on this list because I don't want it to come off as just people being salty about the new book ;)

I'll go by what other people think, though.

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3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Kinda on the fence about this one, I think that's pretty clearly intentional. I'm a bit hesitant to include every rules nerf on this list because I don't want it to come off as just people being salty about the new book ;)

I'll go by what other people think, though.

Indeed it may be on the fence, particularly for the chalice of blood, it give Vhordrai a little edge.
 

But regarding the command ability it’s really seem like it’s a mistake, other generic vampire lords (on foot & vengorian) have command abilities. Similar level of power behemoth (Ghoul Kings on Terrorgheist or Zombie D) all have command abilities.

Last minutes mistakes could always happen :)

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For I guess the incredulity section:

Iirc (my phone is gone, & my saved leaks with it, and I can't seem to find them this morning) Vile Transference does not deal damage.  Is that intended?  Conceptually, the spell seems like it's supposed to "transfer" health from the enemy target, but without dealing damage it doesn't do this.  It just heals an amount that varies according to that target's wounds characteristic.

...

Edit: a friendly spirit showed me the leak again and, yeah, doesn't deal damage, doesn't "transfer" anything.  Even if it did, it would still be an unconscionably terrible spell.  Even if it dealt mortals AND you rolled for the full wounds characteristic, not half of it, it would *STILL* be beyond terrible.  But that it doesn't even deal damage is just insult on top of injury on top of insulting injury, nerf (lower range) after nerf (only heals caster) after nerf (need to roll sixes to do anything instead of a flat d3) after nerf (you only roll based on target's wounds characteristic so basically useless against anything that isn't a monster or hero) after nerf (you only roll /half/ the wounds characteristic so even most heroes and monsters aren't worth targeting).  After all of that, for it not even to deal damage, so it isn't even transferring anything....  I would literally have preferred if they just left a big blank space in the vampire lore with nothing there.  That would have been less obnoxious.

Who was crying about vile transference?  Who was out there saying vile transference needed one nerf, let alone half a dozen?  Pinions was already considered the only good spell in that lore, what the heck, what the heck, I need to go look at something else now.

Edited by Sception
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6 hours ago, Egalogalis said:

Ah I wasn't aware of that, I'm not familiar with the FEC rules.

That's a shame, I guess I was premature in buying a second zombie dragon kit with ny pre-order

FEC is a completely different situation. That battalion calls for 3+ Royal Terrorgheists or Royal Zombie Dragons and the warscrolls for mounted ghoul kings have "Abhorrant Ghoul King"  as the title of warscroll with the mount as a sub-header. You can ignore sub-headers. You cannot ignore the actual name of warscroll.  A better example is the Seraphon battalions that call fro an Oldblood.  There were many questions regarding that and GW did not put out an FAQ because it is covered by core rules- when taking a battalion, sub-headers can be ignored.

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No that's not correct, you're thinking of Royal Menagerie @Angela.

 

Royal Family calls for 1 Archregent or 1 Mounted Ghoul King, plus 2-6 Ghoul Kings.

 

It wasn't intended, but the core rules allowed you take as many mounted Ghoul Kings as you could fit. It ended up giving rise to lists of AAR, 3 x Mounted Ghoul Kings plus 3 x Ghouls for battleline. I played it several times, it was a nice way to get lowish drops whilst packing some big mounted kings, but ultimately they FAQ'd it after the 50th time it was discussed in the WhatsApp group, which contains one of the lead developers (he probably just got fed up of reading about it).

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6 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

No that's not correct, you're thinking of Royal Menagerie @Angela.

 

Royal Family calls for 1 Archregent or 1 Mounted Ghoul King, plus 2-6 Ghoul Kings.

 

It wasn't intended, but the core rules allowed you take as many mounted Ghoul Kings as you could fit. It ended up giving rise to lists of AAR, 3 x Mounted Ghoul Kings plus 3 x Ghouls for battleline. I played it several times, it was a nice way to get lowish drops whilst packing some big mounted kings, but ultimately they FAQ'd it after the 50th time it was discussed in the WhatsApp group, which contains one of the lead developers (he probably just got fed up of reading about it).

Oh, you are right.  I am sorry.  So we are hoping that they do not FAQ our battletome saying that the core rules don't apply for this battalion? I don't think I was playing FEC before that was FAQ'd so I never got to try that battalion. It sounds awesome.

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I'd suggest that the "Is this intended?" format is generally not a good way to phrase questions, and you may get better responses by reformulating them to ask about the outcome, rather than the intention. For example:

  • The Legion of Blood command trait "Sanguine Blur" grants units an additional 3" pile-in distance. Does this also mean that a unit within 6" of an enemy (but not within 3") is eligible to pile in and fight?

  • Can a Deadwalker Zombie unit grow above its starting and/or maximum unit size when models are added to it by the "Newly Dead" ability?

  • If Mannfred von Carstein makes a successful charge in the Charge phase, and then uses his "Mortarch of Night" ability to place himself out of combat at the start of the Fight phase, can he be selected to pile in during that Fight phase?

  • Does the "Vile Transference" spell inflict damage on the target unit?

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1 hour ago, Kadeton said:

I'd suggest that the "Is this intended?" format is generally not a good way to phrase questions, and you may get better responses by reformulating them to ask about the outcome, rather than the intention. For example:

  • The Legion of Blood command trait "Sanguine Blur" grants units an additional 3" pile-in distance. Does this also mean that a unit within 6" of an enemy (but not within 3") is eligible to pile in and fight?

  • Can a Deadwalker Zombie unit grow above its starting and/or maximum unit size when models are added to it by the "Newly Dead" ability?

  • If Mannfred von Carstein makes a successful charge in the Charge phase, and then uses his "Mortarch of Night" ability to place himself out of combat at the start of the Fight phase, can he be selected to pile in during that Fight phase?

  • Does the "Vile Transference" spell inflict damage on the target unit?

I get where you are coming from. I phrased the questions the way I did because I feel like the outcome is frequently clear as the rules are written. With Vile Transference for example there is really no question about whether or not the spell does damage. The question is: It doesn't do any damage. Should it be doing damage?

However, part of me framing the questions as "Is this intended?" was just because I was still collecting my thoughts and just writing down oddities in the rules as I was spotting them. And "Is this intended?" was just a universal way to turn those observation into questions. I'll try to reword as many questions as possible into the usual FAQ style, though. You know, "Question: Does rules x to this? Answer: No." I will be doing that and rework the formatting to be copy/pastable as soon as I get the book into my hands.

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3 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

Is Templar Lance 1” range a typo? 

good point, it is very weird. Also if lances are 2" we can strike on two lines if the first line is turned sideways wich looks rather silly but is still good.
Maybe it is because they are both lance and sword combined in one profile

Edited by Raptor_Jesues
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