The Cursed City situation

[Eternalis]

3 hours ago, EMMachine said:

Limited Releases are more a problem from Lore perspective than for the model releases

 

3 hours ago, EMMachine said:

While the new models (Abhorrant Archregent, Warlock Bombardier, Arch-Revenant) had their Solorelease later

Back in the day we had no idea about that. For about one year, there was no way to purchase these models outside of Ebay for more than 100€. Now we know that these "limited" heroes will be released alone at a later date, but when? Ironscale is still missing while the Lord Of Pain had is solorelease...

[Tropical Ghost General]

Radukar is going to be £23.50. Radukar's Court is going to be £78.50. So £102.00 for the two together. 

Regular argument of 'heroes are £20-£25, and there's 2-3, so it's good value' is kind of mute, as normally those £20-£25 heroes aren't all stuck on the same sprue. 

I'll be interested to see if they sell out and how quickly it happens. The rules for regular Radukar and his crew aren't exactly fantastic, so it's not like that will be a driving factor in the sales tomorrow. 

Be interesting to see if these direct order only models will be a permanent feature on the site or not. 

[RexHavoc]

2 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

Radukar is going to be £23.50. Radukar's Court is going to be £78.50. So £102.00 for the two together. 

Regular argument of 'heroes are £20-£25, and there's 2-3, so it's good value' is kind of mute, as normally those £20-£25 heroes aren't all stuck on the same sprue. 

I'll be interested to see if they sell out and how quickly it happens. The rules for regular Radukar and his crew aren't exactly fantastic, so it's not like that will be a driving factor in the sales tomorrow. 

Be interesting to see if these direct order only models will be a permanent feature on the site or not. 

Matching up the good old New Zealand Oz prices, the court is going to be €110.

I'm honestly sitting on the side of the fence now that says that cursed city was a scam and was there was never meant to be enough stock to allow people to easily buy it. It now costs more to buy the court and Radukar than it did to buy the game that also had skeletons, zombies, heroes, objective yokes, cardboard bits, books, dice.

I'd been happy to buy them as I wanted the chamberlain but without the effort of having to panic buy the set when it came out. But that is insane. You can buy a whole army from other companies for that price.

[MarkK]

Sweet Jesus or Diety of choice, 100 Euro for one sprue and 9 miniatures. Just the villain characters from Cursed City are as much as the boxed set. I bought the Cultists of the Abyss recently for 12 pounds for 8 models, and really happy with it, can't see this been worth 90 euro more.

[zilberfrid]

Yeah, just the villains are the price of a 3d printer. With bad warscrolls.

If these have a long life, that's because people don't buy them at that price.

[Darnok]

As mentioned: my limit for the miniboss box was 65€. Still a lot of money, but kind of reasonable by the standards of GW.

100€ though? [insert strong cursewords of choice here] no! A real shame, but no way.

 

I guess very few people are going to bite with these. Apparently GW wants to really hammer home to its shareholders how nobody wanted this in the first place.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Darnok

[MitGas]

This villains set for this price is seriously a tragedy, wow. I've never complained about GW prices before but if they cost just as much as the whole game did, then they should at least include ALL the minis for that amount.

[Sunshine]

50 minutes ago, MitGas said:

This villains set for this price is seriously a tragedy, wow. I've never complained about GW prices before but if they cost just as much as the whole game did, then they should at least include ALL the minis for that amount.

Wow talk about kicking a man when he is down. I think I will be submitting a complaint as suggested earlier in the thread.

Telling us that it would be around for a while and then it being only available to those who purchased it straight away. Now they are charging an astronomical amount for part of the contents when the full box wasn't that much more! Very disappointing behaviour.

[Infernalslayer]

At 100 euros, they could add the sprue of Radukar the Wolf to the box and i would still not buy it. These are ebay scalper prices and the minis are even webstore exclusive so you can't order them from a FLGS at a discount.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

16 hours ago, MarkK said:

Sweet Jesus or Diety of choice, 100 Euro for one sprue and 9 miniatures. Just the villain characters from Cursed City are as much as the boxed set. I bought the Cultists of the Abyss recently for 12 pounds for 8 models, and really happy with it, can't see this been worth 90 euro more.

Maybe this is the an extreme case of their policy of pricing models for their point cost. Radukar's Court is something like 750 points in Gravelords, so maybe someone in their pricing department looked at that and thought: "This is like a third of an army! What a deal at that price!" 

Which I suppose would make sense if the set was not completely overcosted in points, as well.

[MarkK]

4 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Maybe this is the an extreme case of their policy of pricing models for their point cost. Radukar's Court is something like 750 points in Gravelords, so maybe someone in their pricing department looked at that and thought: "This is like a third of an army! What a deal at that price!" 

Which I suppose would make sense if the set was not completely overcosted in points, as well.

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head, maybe the price is defined by how much an army is to build, usually 300-400+ euros, as this is a third of an army, it's "worth" 100 euros by GWs standards. Their still want to knock that much out of your pocket. 

Personally disappointed, I would have liked to get the set just for painting or skirmish games, as I love the models, but can't justify the expense. I could get 3 warbands for Warcry or the Adeptus Titanicus Warmaster, and that's just staying with GW games. 

Out of curiosity, is anyone still planning to purchase this set or know someone that intends to purchase? Maybe GW know better than me, and will make more profit at this price point than a lower one.

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, MarkK said:

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head, maybe the price is defined by how much an army is to build, usually 300-400+ euros, as this is a third of an army, it's "worth" 100 euros by GWs standards. Their still want to knock that much out of your pocket. 

Personally disappointed, I would have liked to get the set just for painting or skirmish games, as I love the models, but can't justify the expense. I could get 3 warbands for Warcry or the Adeptus Titanicus Warmaster, and that's just staying with GW games. 

Out of curiosity, is anyone still planning to purchase this set or know someone that intends to purchase? Maybe GW know better than me, and will make more profit at this price point than a lower one.

I think history has told us that, no matter how overpriced, as long as it has a GW logo, people will pay for it.

[Joseph Mackay]

2 hours ago, MarkK said:

Out of curiosity, is anyone still planning to purchase this set or know someone that intends to purchase? Maybe GW know better than me, and will make more profit at this price point than a lower one.

I am, yes. I bought the game components from a box splitter so I need the models, I’m not happy about the prices but yes I still plan to buy them 

[MarkK]

1 hour ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I am, yes. I bought the game components from a box splitter so I need the models, I’m not happy about the prices but yes I still plan to buy them 

That's fair enough, I suspect you're not the only one. I recognise that value is a personal thing, and everyone on this forum would have different opinions on what constitutes good or bad value.

Building, painting and gaming with these miniatures will likely eat up to ten's to hundreds of hours of your time for the price of a night or two in the pub (whenever we can go back!) or a couple of trips to the cinema, so the answer really is down to the individual.

[Greybeard86]

On 5/23/2021 at 3:28 AM, MarkK said:

That's fair enough, I suspect you're not the only one. I recognise that value is a personal thing, and everyone on this forum would have different opinions on what constitutes good or bad value.

Building, painting and gaming with these miniatures will likely eat up to ten's to hundreds of hours of your time for the price of a night or two in the pub (whenever we can go back!) or a couple of trips to the cinema, so the answer really is down to the individual.

I read this sort of argumentation quite often.

What triggers people is that GW prices reflect market power far more than production costs. It does not matter that there are more expensive thing out there, or that it is obviously optional to buy these things. We could have a more affordable hobby if GW was not able to price based on their market dominance.

And for those wondering, economists have long established that market dominance is actually bad for society, hence the many anti trust laws. It’s just that in a world with bigger battles to big, mini markets are not the priority of such authorities. 
 

[Sharkbelly]

I would argue that GW constitutes an oligopoly, not a monopoly. Which means there is nothing illegal about it. But the market inefficiency remains the same.

[zilberfrid]

30 minutes ago, Sharkbelly said:

I would argue that GW constitutes an oligopoly, not a monopoly. Which means there is nothing illegal about it. But the market inefficiency remains the same.

And thus I don't mind GW making mistakes at some level.

Smaller designers and writers need and deserve the exposure.

[Greybeard86]

46 minutes ago, Sharkbelly said:

I would argue that GW constitutes an oligopoly, not a monopoly. Which means there is nothing illegal about it. But the market inefficiency remains the same.

Well, technically anti-competition agreements and practices are what is ilegal, not the “uniqueness” aspect. But splitting hairs from our perspective. 
 

For example, banning 3rd party bits from tournaments and pushing other parties to do so is, IMO, a clear case of anti-competitive actions. 
 

Then there is the whole planned obsolescence bit via legends and rule changes, but that’s just anti-consumer that works because of market power, not something they do to increase market power.

Some people seem to think that we need GW to be a super dominant corporation to have a great game. As in we need them to do very well and have massive profit to ensure the survival of the game. When in reality a super dominant company can be quite harmful for the hobby. High prices keeping people from participating, and those participating from engaging more. And market power allowing them to have anti-consumer approaches such as the mini and rule planned obsolescence I mentioned.

[Kadeton]

26 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

For example, banning 3rd party bits from tournaments and pushing other parties to do so is, IMO, a clear case of anti-competitive actions.

The thing I'm continually amazed that they're able to get away with is regional price fixing and the ban on international sales.

[zilberfrid]

5 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

The thing I'm continually amazed that they're able to get away with is regional price fixing and the ban on international sales.

They couldn't do that to EU before January (though price conversion could be a little rough), but there's a chance that they feel free to drive up EU prices now.

Which isn't fun, but the number of boxes that I really like still like to get from GW is quite limited.

Basically Ironclad, Delaque special units, Greywater SC, Nighthaunt horses and... well, that's it.

Serberys and Ironstriders are too expensive to even be on the list, but at 50% off would be on it.

[Greybeard86]

7 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Serberys and Ironstriders are too expensive to even be on the list, but at 50% off would be on it.

Admech is crazy bad point/$. Also, admech is really good on the table, and some of the top performers in the faction have the worst point/$ (chicken walkers, doggos). The new release lowers point costs for admech. How is that good for the hobby?

Or the whole radukar at 160$ bucks thing, which is just nuts.  All of this is coming from the same place, market dominance. Although I could get radukar for 10$ if I wanted to, and the whole court at less than a third of the price. The whole cursed city debacle and the subsequent pricing will likely push some people in the direction of "3rd party" and "3d printing", but so far it seems that GW can stomach that and still come on top.

[RuneBrush]

1 hour ago, Greybeard86 said:

For example, banning 3rd party bits from tournaments and pushing other parties to do so is, IMO, a clear case of anti-competitive actions. 

Not really, TO's are allowed to implement whatever rules they wish at their event.  If an independent TO wants GW support in the form of freebies and advertising, then there's going to be some base requirement involved.

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

Just a nudge back on track before we go too far down the garden path on GW prices and completely derail this topic.

[MarkK]

1 hour ago, Greybeard86 said:

Well, technically anti-competition agreements and practices are what is ilegal, not the “uniqueness” aspect. But splitting hairs from our perspective. 
 

For example, banning 3rd party bits from tournaments and pushing other parties to do so is, IMO, a clear case of anti-competitive actions. 
 

Then there is the whole planned obsolescence bit via legends and rule changes, but that’s just anti-consumer that works because of market power, not something they do to increase market power.

Some people seem to think that we need GW to be a super dominant corporation to have a great game. As in we need them to do very well and have massive profit to ensure the survival of the game. When in reality a super dominant company can be quite harmful for the hobby. High prices keeping people from participating, and those participating from engaging more. And market power allowing them to have anti-consumer approaches such as the mini and rule planned obsolescence I mentioned.

The miniature gaming hobby can be relatively inexpensive to get into, the GW version of the hobby has gotten ridiculous. I was keen to start my nephew in the hobby, but really couldn't put that on my brother. A squad of Marines or a tank costs about the same as a video game, an army costs more than a games console. And that's not counting glues, paints, brushes and other accessories required.

Even the GW skirmish games are not inexpensive to buy into, Warcry now needs you to buy at least 2 books (core and faction), not counting the annual and enough miniatures for a game. This could easily run to well over 100 euro. The "starter" is 160 euro. 

Compare that to something similar like Frostgrave, where 50-60 euro (book, box of soldiers and Wizard) will get you playing. 

There's never been greater choice for miniatures games than now, sooner or later that will impact GWs turnover. 

Edit: Apologies, just seen Mod post after hitting submit.

Edited May 24, 2021 by MarkK
Edit text

[Greybeard86]

49 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

Not really, TO's are allowed to implement whatever rules they wish at their event.  If an independent TO wants GW support in the form of freebies and advertising, then there's going to be some base requirement involved.

That is almost the definition of anti-competitive. How do you think companies operate, with masked men and guns?