Kragnos discussion

[Velmates]

53 minutes ago, Charleston said:

@Velmates I see your point, but when I look at some other sculptors works a fully fledged fur tends to look noisy quite fast. Kragnos already has many details due to the discs and armor pieces attached to his body. This together with a fully fledged Fur would let the miniature look messy. GW's designs tend to prefer rather smooth clean aesthetics

Usually, I like the clean aesthetics of GW sculpts and prefer them very much over ones that try to be realistic but end up messy, as you said (e.g. I have not problems with the new direwolves). With Kragnos, I have three points why I do not agree with this:

1. model size: while smaller models look overloaded with stuff quite easily, bigger models tend to benefit from richer details

2. paint quality and model size: there seem to be big areas of smooth plastic on this model which need a good painter to make them look good, meaning make them not look like skin but fur (even the GW painted model looks just .... brown)

3. (subjective) I look at the model and think ... boring? bland? I don't know, it's just the feeling of disappointment - I have hoped for "more"

Bottom line: I think a company like GW is absolutely able to pull off a design/sculpt that includes fur without making the model look overloaded.

[Lord Krungharr]

Well maybe we'll see all kinds of randomascht stuff come out of the woodwork to accompany this guy, like more goblin wolf riders and such.  I just want him to affect the battlefield like an earthquake would, big aura of destruction type of thing.  He wouldn't need to be a one-model wrecking crew in combat necessarily, just to be able to cause destruction and help other Destruction units cause MOAR destruction.

But having Gordrakk, a MegaGargant, and this guy in a grand alliance army sounds pretty fun.

[C0deb1ue]

Really need to see more rules and points costs.... so far we can’t tell whether he will be any good. 
 

Leading with a +1 bravery aura is about the least reassuring thing possible as far as rules go and is frankly a terrible rule. That could be the extent of the cross-faction support he provides.
 

I imagine if the rest of destruction is anything to go by that he will be over-costed as well.

[SunStorm]

1 hour ago, C0deb1ue said:

Really need to see more rules and points costs.... so far we can’t tell whether he will be any good. 
 

Leading with a +1 bravery aura is about the least reassuring thing possible as far as rules go and is frankly a terrible rule. That could be the extent of the cross-faction support he provides.
 

I imagine if the rest of destruction is anything to go by that he will be over-costed as well.

I'm not going to complain about +1 bravery in 12" of something with such a large base. My Ironjawz will benefit from that. Especially as it's a single snippet and we haven't seen any other rules or indeed if the rumored AoS 3.0 changes morale rules or the way bravery works. 

 

[Lord Krungharr]

I just saw a picture of Kragnos next to some Gluttons; he's ginormous!  Didn't realize he's megagargant sized.  He'll do MW on the charge for sure, and hopefully be like rend -3 with 3 to 5 damage per attack and many attacks combined with the club and hooves.  His spell ignoring shield is useful.

[Chumphammer]

Yeah he is just taller than the Megagargants

His 12" +1ld aura might be more effective if he does get his own faction, especially if its a small fast hard hitting force 

[Chumphammer]

Yeah he is just taller than the Megagargants

His 12" +1ld aura might be more effective if he does get his own faction, especially if its a small fast hard hitting force 

[C0deb1ue]

8 hours ago, SunStorm said:

I'm not going to complain about +1 bravery in 12" of something with such a large base. My Ironjawz will benefit from that. Especially as it's a single snippet and we haven't seen any other rules or indeed if the rumored AoS 3.0 changes morale rules or the way bravery works. 

 

If a unit needs saving that badly, you have already spent the CP plus this does nothing for gits/squigs anyway...

Can you really feel excited that the destruction demigod has a +1 bravery rule... can we just have slightly higher standards.... I'm not sure what changes you are expecting that will make +1 bravery excellent. 

I'm sure there will be other rules like you say.

[Hypno]

They gave us one cool rule with the shield and the +1 bravery to all destruction to show he affected everyone without giving away a special rule... you know who else has an ability that affects all destruction? Gordrakk! 

[novakai]

who know maybe Bravery and Battleshock are going to be retuned in the next edition and that =1 bravery may actually be useful. GW keep adding this rule to many other units lately as well.

i know it one of the biggest thing people want to see change is the battleshock phase of the game

[Rors]

7 hours ago, novakai said:

who know maybe Bravery and Battleshock are going to be retuned in the next edition and that =1 bravery may actually be useful. GW keep adding this rule to many other units lately as well.

i know it one of the biggest thing people want to see change is the battleshock phase of the game

All they have to do in AoS 3 is change the universal command traits. Without access to battle shock immunity for a single CP across every army, it's actually a relevant phase of the game.

[C0deb1ue]

3 hours ago, Rors said:

All they have to do in AoS 3 is change the universal command traits. Without access to battle shock immunity for a single CP across every army, it's actually a relevant phase of the game.

It would have to be some pretty excellent changes. Gitz/squigs would be in even more trouble than they already are without access to some sort of battleshock immunity. 

[a74xhx]

7 hours ago, C0deb1ue said:

It would have to be some pretty excellent changes. Gitz/squigs would be in even more trouble than they already are without access to some sort of battleshock immunity. 

If that comes in a new Guys battletome, then I'm fine with that.

[Boggler]

I'm not sure if I like the idea of 1/3 of an army being a $200+ dollar model but Kragnos has potential... From a hobby perspective.

I intend to get him, and a bunch of Ungor Raiders and use them as "Counts As" Bonesplitterz. Or even see if he can round out a Sons of Behemat list. Ironjawz don't need him and 6GG's one shot him.

[Rors]

On 5/7/2021 at 10:32 PM, C0deb1ue said:

It would have to be some pretty excellent changes. Gitz/squigs would be in even more trouble than they already are without access to some sort of battleshock immunity. 

Gitz SHOULD struggle with leadership.

They need to be buffed in other areas rather than making an entire phase of the game largely redundant.

[C0deb1ue]

On 5/9/2021 at 5:12 AM, Rors said:

Gitz SHOULD struggle with leadership.

They need to be buffed in other areas rather than making an entire phase of the game largely redundant.

yeah I agree their leadership should be bad. It's just the rest of their stuff is also pretty bad... so where's the balance? 
 

[Lord Krungharr]

The Gitz have some good tricks and can generate CP to augment battleshock effects....but they also have fun randomness such that they can hit like a truck, or a hotwheels truck.  And they can vomit and return units to the table (the new Troggoth version of that is the sauce!)  Spiderfang are SOLID.

[Rors]

9 hours ago, C0deb1ue said:

yeah I agree their leadership should be bad. It's just the rest of their stuff is also pretty bad... so where's the balance? 
 

Yeah it's not a ballanced faction.. to a degree goblins have never been a ballanced faction, they've always been more of a random 'fun' army. This has made them consistently difficult for game designer to ballance as the core of the factions playstyle is gambling risk reward choices. Back in the day you could release fanatics and they might utterly destroy an opposed unit, or just smash through your own lines.

They definitely do need updates, I just think they're updates should work to improve the playability of the faction without killing the playstyle of the faction. Low leadership has always been a key feature, so has the ability to stack out ridiculous but often  self harming amounts of damage.

I'd like more upgrades where say the unit eats shrooms and gets a huge combat buff, but take mortal wounds at the end of turn as they overdose. Or reincarnation of the doom diver where they use their own troops as ammunition.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Rors

[Lord Krungharr]

Doom divers rule!

[C0deb1ue]

On 5/11/2021 at 1:24 AM, Rors said:

Yeah it's not a ballanced faction.. to a degree goblins have never been a ballanced faction, they've always been more of a random 'fun' army. This has made them consistently difficult for game designer to ballance as the core of the factions playstyle is gambling risk reward choices. Back in the day you could release fanatics and they might utterly destroy an opposed unit, or just smash through your own lines.

They definitely do need updates, I just think they're updates should work to improve the playability of the faction without killing the playstyle of the faction. Low leadership has always been a key feature, so has the ability to stack out ridiculous but often  self harming amounts of damage.

I'd like more upgrades where say the unit eats shrooms and gets a huge combat buff, but take mortal wounds at the end of turn as they overdose. Or reincarnation of the doom diver where they use their own troops as ammunition.

I think the balance problem at the moment is that there is no reward for all the risk/unpredictable stuff. If you roll hot, then your army functions ok. There is no big payoff for the random, it's just a built in weakness, which is honestly bad rule design described as "fun" to excuse it. Swingy randomness does not really equate to fun in my book. Kragnos wont solve their problems but I hope he is more interesting than literally just a bunch of wounds with a good weapon. Like I said before, a plus 1 bravery aura is really really boring even if AoS 3 somehow makes it more useful.

Edited May 13, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[Lord Krungharr]

I had a brief vision just now of Kragnos bringing with him a whole new army and set of allegiance abilities and artefacts if he's the general.  Don't know if that's just Tzeentch toying with me, or the mushroom I just ate (which would make it an accurate prediction).

[Archibald]

Kragnos has a potential of doing 36 MWs on the charge?! Wtf!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/23/sunday-preview-the-mortal-realms-quake-beneath-the-tread-of-kragnos/

Edited May 23, 2021 by Archibald

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

25 minutes ago, Archibald said:

Kragnos has a potential of doing 36 MWs on the charge?! Wtf!

First guess is the Mathhammer is roll # of d6 of unmodified Charge Roll (max 12) against up to 3 enemy units w/in X inches of the model and on X+ do MWs.

That would still be potentially devastating but less game breaking than the headline?

What I want to know most is still points.

[peasant]

Its decided I'll buy him to command a gluttons horde

[Mangod]

On 5/14/2021 at 12:30 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

I had a brief vision just now of Kragnos bringing with him a whole new army and set of allegiance abilities and artefacts if he's the general.  Don't know if that's just Tzeentch toying with me, or the mushroom I just ate (which would make it an accurate prediction).

It just struck me; Kragnos claims "my people are gone", but if he heads over to Ghyran...

 

Tell me Skaeth (centaur boy) isn't a dead ringer for a descendant of Kragnos' people.