Shooters shooting in combat making missle troops very stronf.

[Arathorn]

Hey folks, I am just getting back into Warhammer and AoS took my fancy with the flexible game style and the new generals rule book out. However, the thought of all missle troops shooting in combat seems a bit silly tbh and unbalanced for there cost. I would be okay with a rule that said if models in melee combat are out of reach with there melee weapon they may fire their missle weapon, which essentially keeps every model still only be able to do one attack. But by giving missle troops two attacks in combat seems bizarre and overpowered from a game mechanics/ reality point . Especially as GW put in if you retreat you can't fire or charge, which would make more sense to be able to fire when retreating then it does to be able to fire in combat and then melee attack. I hope I have read something wrong in the rules to allow a missle unit to both fire and use melee weapons in the same turn. On top.of this you use the volley fire ability which gives each model 2 attacks if the unit is over 20 models and you have a ridiculous offensive unit with range capability and close combat effectiveness with little weakness for seemingly 120points in the case of dwarf quarrelers which is essentially absurd. I still can't believe they allow shooting in combat, like how are you able to load your crossbow while fighting off enemies!? It makes zero sense and is such an odd choice of game mechanic.

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

Snip, please use paragraphs.

Although this seems at first like its overpowered and makes no sense, once you actually play with it it's really not the case.

Best in mind you only shoot in your own turn whereas melee happens in both players turns, and that most ranged troops have poor save, poor melee and low wounds. This tends to make them very vulnerable.

With the not making sense to shoot in to combat thing, you can explain it how you like:

-it simulates stand and shoot

-historically many ranged troops would fight close quarters.

-many armies don't care about hitting their own troops(not that that happens in AoS)

I urge you to withhold your judgement until you have played a good few games on both sides of a shooting army.

[MechaBriZilla]

19 hours ago, Arathorn said:

 But by giving missle troops two attacks in combat seems bizarre and overpowered from a game mechanics/ reality point . 

 

I've found your problem right here.  Don't worry about the reality of the situation too much.  I think you'll find as you read/play AoS, that reality has little to do with the game.  

Sorry, I'm teasing a bit here, but I'm not purposefully being a troll.  But honestly, I feel that AoS should be viewed more cinematically rather than realistically.  Everything is over the top, it's high fantasy.  Not the grim, grinding fights of WHFB.  Or at least that's how it is in my head. If it helps, you can also imagine them fighting all Legolas style.  Firing off arrows at amazing speeds with unerring accuracy while performing acrobatics.

That said, Jabber is 100% right on. ,mechanically.  One other note about AoS, is that there are plenty of ways for many armies to get around the board quickly.  So Ranged units can be very vulnerable to being attacked very early in the game sometimes in turn 1.  Not allowing them to fire while engaged in melee would really be a drastic nerf.

[Carnelian]

Yeah the game is nowhere near static so there are lots of ways to put hurt on to ranged units by getting charges off in the first turn 

[daedalus81]

Legolas also never had trouble shooting his bow at point-blank range.  This game exists in a fantasy world like Legolas and so it is not a broad stretch of the imagination.

Ranged units are also model for model much more expensive than equivalent melee units in terms of overall damage output.

[Wailslake]

Most "standard" missile troops have seemed to melt away once engaged in combat in the games I have played.  While they get a shooting attack in their turn, they have often been lucky to see two rounds of combat for it to make any extra impact.

As mentioned above, this can either be seen as "stand-and-shoot" or just point blank firing.

[Sadysaneto]

Well they dont have two attacks in combat.

They shoot. And they only shoot on your shooting phase. So, in your turn, theres no pew pew for your opponent.

That said, most shooting units are very subpar.

[RuneBrush]

20 hours ago, Arathorn said:

But by giving missle troops two attacks in combat seems bizarre and overpowered from a game mechanics

Not sure which warscroll you've been looking at, but you do know you're only allowed to use "Melee" weapons in the combat phase and "Missile" weapons in the shooting phase?

20 Quarrellers will cost 240 points too (120 for every ten) and they'll only gain the bonus attack if no enemies are within 3", so rapidly reduce in damage output once something is beating on them.

I do agree that coming up against an opponent that has lots of shooting attacks (especially if you don't) is quite painful in the first turn or so and shooting whilst engaged is a bit of a sting too - but as has been said a couple of times, most ranged units are pretty mediocre in combat so you should be able to remove swathes of them at once