Broken Realms: Be'lakor - SPOILER Discussion + Lore Summary

[The Wah]

If Daemons are lesser reflections of one the Chaos Gods how can something like Belakor exist? He doesn’t seem to be aligned to any specific Chaos God, so who is he a reflection of? Do I have this wrong?

[Beliman]

47 minutes ago, The Wah said:

If Daemons are lesser reflections of one the Chaos Gods how can something like Belakor exist? He doesn’t seem to be aligned to any specific Chaos God, so who is he a reflection of? Do I have this wrong?

Be'lakor is a rare thing in itself. I'm not sure if he was expected to be an Everchosen (a mortal blessed by all chaos gods as their avatar, the last one being Archaon istelf), but instead he was the first mortal being promoted to a demon prince (that's the jackpot for all chaos groupies).

So, not just a reflection, but the first ascended mortal blessed by all chaos gods (and then forced/trolled to crown all everchosens...).

[Jator]

On 4/29/2021 at 12:50 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

I sadly haven’t read the book yet,

but....

 

..considering...

 

...that there are no mentions about the most deceiving and backstabbing faction of them all (skaven if you don’t get it) ,

I am not missing out on anything.

 

 

We got a short excerpt about Crixxit, (the eshin assassin from the BR short story) blowing up a second silver tower.

[Nagash42]

He didnt blow up the tower just the generator. Belakor didn't want to blow up two towers and get tzeentch to mad hehe. 

[Skreech Verminking]

53 minutes ago, Jator said:

We got a short excerpt about Crixxit, (the eshin assassin from the BR short story) blowing up a second silver tower.

Or killing a big fish.

(maybe the extermination of a certain posterfactions)

or maybe he is waiting to break-destroy the chamber making sigmar button mashine)

so no more stormcast chamber can not be opened ever, ever and ever again

(or at least the next 10-20years)

Edited May 1, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[cofaxest]

23 hours ago, darkdark25 said:

In one the newest White Dwarf magazine (April issue if I'm not mistaken), Grombridal as the Wanderer fights Morathi in her snake form and in the fight he changes sizes to match her.

Thank you very much for your reply! I read all 4 stories and that was AWESOME!
From what I gather that looks like
1) Grombidal is a demigod right now (his powers are very close to Morathi's and he directly says that he is not a god)
2) Grombridal is working as a Grungni agent (he take the body of the dead Fyreslayers Rusmiter "to his maker")
3) Grombridal can change his size and appearance.
4) It's safe to say that 90% it was a Grombridal in Be'lakor BR.
The only thing that still concerns me a bit that in the BR Be'lakor sees him with pike+axe and in all stories, he was welding a runic axe.

[silverstu]

4 hours ago, cofaxest said:

Thank you very much for your reply! I read all 4 stories and that was AWESOME!
From what I gather that looks like
1) Grombidal is a demigod right now (his powers are very close to Morathi's and he directly says that he is not a god)
2) Grombridal is working as a Grungni agent (he take the body of the dead Fyreslayers Rusmiter "to his maker")
3) Grombridal can change his size and appearance.
4) It's safe to say that 90% it was a Grombridal in Be'lakor BR.
The only thing that still concerns me a bit that in the BR Be'lakor sees him with pike+axe and in all stories, he was welding a runic axe.

Any other way of reading these stories other than buying 4 White Dwarfs?

[Acid_Nine]

Nah guys, you are thinking too small for the mysterious dwarf...

 

it is so obviously Grimnir after he ran out of hair dye, took up smoking, and his bro smithing together enough pieces of gold to remake him!

 

😘

[cofaxest]

17 hours ago, silverstu said:

Any other way of reading these stories other than buying 4 White Dwarfs?

Sadly I can't find any so I decide to buy all 4 and will buy 2 more to see where his story will go)

[Chaos Shepard]

On 5/1/2021 at 11:35 AM, The Wah said:

If Daemons are lesser reflections of one the Chaos Gods how can something like Belakor exist? He doesn’t seem to be aligned to any specific Chaos God, so who is he a reflection of? Do I have this wrong?

Chaos is more than just the big 4. Many countless lesser being inhabit the realm of Chaos. Korn, Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh just appear to be the largest domains with Chaos. Other such entities such as the Great Horned Rat also exist in the realm of Chaos. Then there are the beastmen who are not direct products of any of the Chaos Gods but still have origins tied to chaos itself. Hell many beastmen see the Chaos Gods as a mockery of what true Chaos should actually be.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Chaos Shepard
grammar

[Kaleb Daark]

On 5/1/2021 at 5:35 PM, The Wah said:

If Daemons are lesser reflections of one the Chaos Gods how can something like Belakor exist? He doesn’t seem to be aligned to any specific Chaos God, so who is he a reflection of? Do I have this wrong?

like what Chaos Shepard says above, you're thinking of the big four.

Although the game has funnelled you into choosing an allegiance, in reality you could well have an unaligned, undivided daemon prince.

Think of chaos a bit like the warp in 40k where all sorts of entities and beings exist, all with their own agendas and agents.

In fact the early 30k Daemons of the ruinstorm rules where chaos makes its entrance is a good example, where a daemon is an entity of the warp of no alignment spilling into the mortal realm and as such was.

They are categorised only as lesser, greater, mounted, brutes etc.  I'm sure that GW designers have a great selection of ideas for unaligned daemonic entities if the Legion of the First Prince battletome were ever to become a thing and differentiate it above and beyond the god aligned models.

[Harpo2]

On 5/1/2021 at 5:35 PM, The Wah said:

If Daemons are lesser reflections of one the Chaos Gods how can something like Belakor exist? He doesn’t seem to be aligned to any specific Chaos God, so who is he a reflection of? Do I have this wrong?

Be'lekor lore is that he is the first ever daemon prince of chaos and he is also only daemon prince that was created by multiple chaos gods.

Since Be'lekor was created by multiple chaos gods, no one chaos god could command him.

So Chaos Gods all decided to ignore him (except for Be'lekor job to crown the Everchosen) and focus on making their own daemon princes that they would be able to command themselves learning from Be'lekor that group projects are a terrible idea.

[HorticulusTGA]

23 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Think of chaos a bit like the warp in 40k where all sorts of entities and beings exist, all with their own agendas and agents.

The Warp and the Realm of Chaos are one and the same thing. 

Since the beginning and until the end 😈

[Kaleb Daark]

5 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

The Warp and the Realm of Chaos are one and the same thing. 

Since the beginning and until the end 😈

Indeed, its just 40k has done a better job of explaining the variety of its denizens than fantasy/aos did.

I also really liked the idea of the ruinstorm rules / idea for undivided daemonkind.

[Kaleb Daark]

7 hours ago, Harpo2 said:

Be'lekor lore is that he is the first ever daemon prince of chaos and he is also only daemon prince that was created by multiple chaos gods.

Since Be'lekor was created by multiple chaos gods, no one chaos god could command him.

So Chaos Gods all decided to ignore him (except for Be'lekor job to crown the Everchosen) and focus on making their own daemon princes that they would be able to command themselves learning from Be'lekor that group projects are a terrible idea.

Belakor... designed by committee 🤣

[EccentricCircle]

As far as Grombrindal vs Grungni goes... How about this.

We know that Gotrek is, for want of a better term, the Chosen of Grimnir. He is in effect a mortal dwarf who has a fragment of divine power, which has elevated him to insane levels of power. However, this hasn't strictly speaking made him a demigod, and unlike some champions of the gods he isn't exactly prone to play along. He doesn't actually like the god that granted him this power, and rebels against the mantle that has been placed upon him.

So what if Grombrindal is, and perhaps always has been, the same thing for Grungni. Except that unlike Gotrek he actually likes his role, and works with and for his patron. So  Gotrek is the Arch Slayer, the champion of wrath and beligerance, elevated to semi divine power. Meanwhile Grombrindal (or whoever he was before becoming immortal) is the Arch Longbeard, the embodiement of dwarven tradition, authority, wisdom and grudgekeeping. Like Gotrek he wanders the world, with fate always guiding him to the place where he is needed most. But while Gotrek rails against that fate, and smashes things and moves on, Grombrindal is more subtle, in keeping with his patron's portfoilo as a builder and craftsman first and warrior second. But what Grombrindal crafts is essentially dwarven history?

Thus he is the gandalf like advisor, who shows up when needed most, but isn't above getting stuck in with his own axe. After all, he is a dwarf!

This doesn't preclude him also worshipping, or being favoured by grimnir too to an extent. After all the dwarven pantheon is a single family, not mutually exclusive faiths.

 

IF this theory were true it would also raise a question as to whether any of the other Ancestor gods have such Champions. Could Bugman perhaps be the champion of the dwarven god of Ale? Is there a female champion of Valaya somewhere in the realms?

I think it would open up quite a lot of interesting possibilities.

[Clan's Cynic]

Hopefully the Grombrindal stories get printed into an anthology, or at least posted online.

[Snorri Nelriksson]

@EccentricCirclethe ancestor gods have a problem reading some recent piece of lore, we know that a "betrayal" (the Thagduegi) broke the Dwarf Pantheon,  and in soulbound  is mentioned that the chain that bound Grimnir and Grungni were built by Grungni for a "dark purpose" or something similar.

Still means that ancestors other than Valaya, Gazul,Grimnir and Grungni are all alive and perhaps someone even got some problem.

Still i think Grombrdondal is more an hero for all the dwarfdom and not a "simple" Grungni's Champion(while still they work together).

Iirc there was a lorepiece that said that Gotrek starbreaker became grombrindal because he was so stubborn that he overcome death.

Also i'd like to see him talk again with Malekith, as they were friends in the old world before the war of the beard.

[Beliman]

Double post

Edited May 17, 2021 by Beliman

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

Still i think Grombrdondal is more an hero for all the dwarfdom and not a "simple" Grungni's Champion(while still they work together).

If the legend is true, Snorri Whitebeard was the son of Gurngni and Valaya. Not sure if that counts as Gungni's champion but they are both in the same side.

52 minutes ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

Iirc there was a lorepiece that said that Gotrek starbreaker became grombrindal because he was so stubborn that he overcome death

That sounds more about Snorri than Gotrek. I didn't even know that Gotrek knew Malekith!!

[Snorri Nelriksson]

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

If the legend is true, Snorri Whitebeard was the son of Gurngni and Valaya. Not sure if that counts as Gungni's champion but they are both in the same side.

That sounds more about Snorri than Gotrek. I didn't even know that Gotrek knew Malekith!!

Sorry i remembered wrong i fused Snorri Whitebeard with Gotrek starbreaker...

Please be free to mark a grudge to this dawi XD.

Still i meant that Grombrindal is more than just that, ofc all the dwarf gods are on the same side (but in aos there's something still obscure about traitors?) but seems a little "downsizing" saying that Grombrindal is just "Grungni's champion".

Edited May 17, 2021 by Snorri Nelriksson

[Beliman]

1 minute ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

Please be free to mark a grudge to this dawi XD.

No need to do all that paperwork! Some beers will settle the grudge!

[lare2]

Finally got round to reading this and getting caught up on Broken Realms. As with the others, loved it. Really outstanding work and I'm pumped for the final instalment. Quickly read through the above to see who the white haired Dwarf was... guess we don't know for certain yet then!