AZYR APP and The Scinari Loreseeker

[nightsrage]

The AZYR app is saying that I can only have 1 Loreseeker in my Army.

Is this accurate or a mistake in the app?

I dont see a limitation on lorseekers written in the book. 

[AnarchMage]

It’s under the points. He’s listed as “unique”, so you sadly only get one. Probably for the best, though I’m hoping an FAQ lets him take an artifact

[EMMachine]

2 hours ago, AnarchMage said:

It’s under the points. He’s listed as “unique”, so you sadly only get one. Probably for the best, though I’m hoping an FAQ lets him take an artifact

Their is no FAQ needed. Unique and named Character are two different things.

Unique only means that you can only have one in your army. Only if the warscroll Description says that it is a named character it is a named character and only than they can't use command traits or artecacts.

It is like with Flowers and roses.

Every rose is a Flowers but nie ever Flower is a rose.

All named characters are unique but not every unique unit is a named character.

Edited April 9, 2021 by EMMachine

[AnarchMage]

11 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

Their is no FAQ needed. Unique and named Character are two different things.

Unique only means that you can only have one in your army. Only if the warscroll Description says that it is a named character it is a named character and only than they can't use command traits or artecacts.

It is Luke with Flowers and roses.

Every rose is a Flowers but nie ever Flower is a rose.

All named characters are unique but not every unique unit is a named character.

From what I’ve seen, there’s a bit of debate on the topic since the top of all point lists says that Unique units are named characters. I err on the side of caution with stuff like this, but that’s why I think an FAQ is needed

[EMMachine]

20 minutes ago, AnarchMage said:

From what I’ve seen, there’s a bit of debate on the topic since the top of all point lists says that Unique units are named characters. I err on the side of caution with stuff like this, but that’s why I think an FAQ is needed

I have the feeling, the main problem is. GW included the rule 2018, so they didn't had to change all named Character Warscrolls from the first edition and later completly forgot about it.

There is no real need for that ruling anymore because all named characters after 2. Edition state this on their warscroll (where it belongs because Unique as part of the pitched Battle profile is only part of Matched play rules, not part of the corerules).

Edited April 9, 2021 by EMMachine

[PiotrW]

I think there's also a bit of debate whether Named characters can take Mount traits etc. I'm inclined to say no and treat Named characters as uncustomizable. But maybe I'm wrong...

BTW. Stupid question re: Azyr - is there a way to make the font, images etc. bigger? I can't use this app, as my eyes hurt from looking at small font on mobile devices...

[EMMachine]

19 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

I think there's also a bit of debate whether Named characters can take Mount traits etc. I'm inclined to say no and treat Named characters as uncustomizable. But maybe I'm wrong...

The corerules only state that named characters can't take Command Trait and Artefacts. A Mount Trait is neither of them, so it is not restricted.

[Marcvs]

This is why there is a discussion and why an FAQ would be welcome to clarify the situation

Edited April 9, 2021 by Marcvs

[EMMachine]

31 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

This is why there is a discussion and why an FAQ would be welcome to clarify the situation

This is what I meant here:

1 hour ago, EMMachine said:

I have the feeling, the main problem is. GW included the rule 2018, so they didn't had to change all named Character Warscrolls from the first edition and later completly forgot about it.

There is no real need for that ruling anymore because all named characters after 2. Edition state this on their warscroll (where it belongs because Unique as part of the pitched Battle profile is only part of Matched play rules, not part of the corerules).

In the end, if you use the Loreseeker in Open or Narrative play, you can use as many you want and give him Command Traits and Artefacts because he is not a Named Character and Pitched Battle profiles are only for pitched Battle.

Maybe they change it with 3.0.

Edited April 9, 2021 by EMMachine

[Marcvs]

10 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

This is what I meant here:

In the end, if you use the Loreseeker in Open or Narrative play, you can use as many you want and give him Command Traits and Artefacts because he is not a Named Character and Pitched Battle profiles are only for pitched Battle.

Maybe they change it with 3.0.

I think that an FAQ like it happened for the Blue Scribes (hence making the loreseeker a named character) is more likely, but who knows

[EMMachine]

8 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I think that an FAQ like it happened for the Blue Scribes (hence making the loreseeker a named character) is more likely, but who knows

Only if making the the loremaster unique isn't a future few for 3.0, so that Heroes like Auric Runefathers, Auric Runemasters, Lord-Celestants, Frostlords, Abhorrant Archregent, Arcanaut Admirals etc. that lead entire armies of even multiple kingdoms are restricted to 1 in each army with the next generals Handbook (because they would be in the lore).

But without that ruling from Pitched Battles the following models wouldn't be named Characters anymore because they still have the old warscrolls without mentioning that they are named characters:

• Neferata,
• Mannfred,
• Rotigus,
• Epidemius,
• Horticulous Slimux,
• the Glottkin, Morbidex,
• Orghotts,
• Bloab,
• Festus,
• Gutrot
• Volturnos
• Lotann

When these models are updated GW can remove the sentence from pitched Battle that unique = named Character.

[Joseph Mackay]

2 hours ago, EMMachine said:

This is what I meant here:

In the end, if you use the Loreseeker in Open or Narrative play, you can use as many you want and give him Command Traits and Artefacts because he is not a Named Character and Pitched Battle profiles are only for pitched Battle.

Maybe they change it with 3.0.

Not quite. ‘Named characters’ not being able to take command traits or artefacts is a general rule and is not exclusive to matched play. The issue here is that as I believe the Loreseeker is the first non-named hero to be marked as Unique, there’s confusion over weather named and unique are the same 

but yes in open or narrative you can take as many Loreseekers as you want 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Joseph Mackay

[Khaedhras]

As a comment, the Azyr app has several bugs regarding Lumineth. As a techy guy, I've sent a couple bug reports myself, but to no avail so far 😅

For instance, the loreseeker being discussed is also a wizard, and per the rules in the spell pages, he should be able to take a spell. The Azyr app doesn't allow that.

There's also the fact that stoneguard should be battleline in Ymetrica and windriders should be battleline in Helon, the app only shows them under 'other'. In addition, one unit of wardens allows to take either one unit of sentinels or one unit of dawnriders as battleline, and the app allows to add one of each per unit of wardens. And these are just a few examples of how undertested the app is, I'm afraid.

I'm inclined to think that, being the loreseeker unnamed, he will be able to take artifacts and such. But I guess we'll have to wait for the FAQ. But I'd very much like for the 'named' and 'unique' tags to be separated going forward.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Khaedhras

[AnarchMage]

39 minutes ago, Khaedhras said:

As a comment, the Azyr app has several bugs regarding Lumineth. As a techy guy, I've sent a couple bug reports myself, but to no avail so far 😅

For instance, the loreseeker being discussed is also a wizard, and per the rules in the spell pages, he should be able to take a spell. The Azyr app doesn't allow that.

There's also the fact that stoneguard should be battleline in Ymetrica and windriders should be battleline in Helon, the app only shows them under 'other'. In addition, one unit of wardens allows to take either one unit of sentinels or one unit of dawnriders as battleline, and the app allows to add one of each per unit of wardens. And these are just a few examples of how undertested the app is, I'm afraid.

I'm inclined to think that, being the loreseeker unnamed, he will be able to take artifacts and such. But I guess we'll have to wait for the FAQ. But I'd very much like for the 'named' and 'unique' tags to be separated going forward.

There are quite a few. It also should be letting vanari units take spells, Zaitrec wizard heroes take extra spells, shouldn’t let the twins be general, etc

The stone guard and wind chargers get bumped to battle line in their respective nations, though they aren’t listed as such. It may just be a coding thing. I’m not all that familiar with how shifting battleline subfactions are represented in the app outside of LRL

[Khaedhras]

21 minutes ago, AnarchMage said:

There are quite a few. It also should be letting vanari units take spells, Zaitrec wizard heroes take extra spells, shouldn’t let the twins be general, etc

The stone guard and wind chargers get bumped to battle line in their respective nations, though they aren’t listed as such. It may just be a coding thing. I’m not all that familiar with how shifting battleline subfactions are represented in the app outside of LRL

Indeed, quite a few. Do they get bumped to battleline? Maybe we have different versions of the app, my (now very outdated, I realize) Ymetrica list comes off as invalid for 'not having enough battleline':

I don't know the specific coding details either, but in Idoneth Deepkin, for instance, Akhelian Guard units (either Morsarr or Ishlaen) start off as 'other' and are recognized as 'battleline' when you pick Volturnos or a King as your general.

On a sidenote, GW is currently hiring an Android/iOS developer.

 

[Joseph Mackay]

1 hour ago, Khaedhras said:

As a comment, the Azyr app has several bugs regarding Lumineth. As a techy guy, I've sent a couple bug reports myself, but to no avail so far 😅

For instance, the loreseeker being discussed is also a wizard, and per the rules in the spell pages, he should be able to take a spell. The Azyr app doesn't allow that.

There's also the fact that stoneguard should be battleline in Ymetrica and windriders should be battleline in Helon, the app only shows them under 'other'. In addition, one unit of wardens allows to take either one unit of sentinels or one unit of dawnriders as battleline, and the app allows to add one of each per unit of wardens. And these are just a few examples of how undertested the app is, I'm afraid.

I'm inclined to think that, being the loreseeker unnamed, he will be able to take artifacts and such. But I guess we'll have to wait for the FAQ. But I'd very much like for the 'named' and 'unique' tags to be separated going forward.

I don’t understand why, but Warscroll Builder (developed and maintained by a third party and hosted on Warhammer Community) is more reliable than Azyr has ever been. One is free, the other is a paid subscription. I expect better from Azyr tbh and haven’t used it in over 2 years because of these sorts of issues