what about the bladelords

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

tbh I will be taking 5 Blade lords just as guadians for my Cathallar.

This raises the question whether it's not just better to simply take another Cathaller, though. For me personally, that has always been my problem with bodyguard units: Most of the time, I'd rather have another copy of whatever they are guarding.

[Tiberius501]

I guess it’s mainly the opponent feeling like they are able to react to the damage. It’s certainly worse in 40K where wounding is harder or easier based on toughness, and mortal wounds on hit rolls ignore the toughness of a model. So it’s easier to get away with in Sigmar.

I did like it when it was a little rarer to see MW’s personally, they felt like a special type of magical dmg. But they’re very common now to the point of our army not caring much about rolling to wound. We just roll to hit and see how many 5+’s we get and the opponent takes X amount of models off the board. There’s no real engagement. 

Anyway, I don’t mean to hate on our bros, it’s just a personal taste thing at the end of the day. Still love my pointy eared champions, they’re my version of what some would call “the” army. 

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

The only case where it is perhaps annoying is on the Sentinels but if we look at the damage output it is not greater than what other armies can do with their shooting options. Ultmately damage is damage so while some people may want to roll their saves if the damage at the end is the same, does it really matter?

I can answer that.

If half of your dmg is done by mortal wounds, means that the enemy can't use normal abilities (such as Look out Sir, Cover, Garrison, etc...) to try to minimize half of your damage.

I have exactly the same problems with  another mechanic: Fly High and Ranged Weapons. Part of the whole shooting is about LoS and distance, with Fly High I can "cheat" part of my oponents main defense. Having below average ranged damage is irrelevant for the whole point (and not having the option to go full magic or melee doesn't help).

Btw, I completely agree with them. As a KO player, I'm really bored about Alpha Strikes, even if they are the most competitive gameplay for KOs. They are not fun.

[stratigo]

4 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

Personally lore-wise I find the sunmetal weapon ability very fitting as a way to incorporate the precision strikes of aelven warriors.

The only case where it is perhaps annoying is on the Sentinels but if we look at the damage output it is not greater than what other armies can do with their shooting options. Ultmately damage is damage so while some people may want to roll their saves if the damage at the end is the same, does it really matter?

Sun metal weapons also exist in combat. It's annoying on wardens too. Sentinels are annoying because they can dump mortal wounds with no counter at all from almost anywhere on the board, and there's not much even other shooting armies can do about it, what tween their range and shining company.

 

Mortal wounds throw the game off, and slaanesh has the same "precision strike" moved to wounds, where if it really needs to exist, it should be.  And also, like, not be on 5s with an increasingly trivial spellcast. It's a bad mechanic, and if Lumineth lost it or had it forced to wounds the army would still be in the top tables, but be ever so slightly less oppressive. Which, ya know, needs to happen because the army is overpowered as is.

 

 

[Siegfried VII]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I can answer that.

If half of your dmg is done by mortal wounds, means that the enemy can't use normal abilities (such as Look out Sir, Cover, Garrison, etc...) to try to minimize half of your damage.

I have exactly the same problems with  another mechanic: Fly High and Ranged Weapons. Part of the whole shooting is about LoS and distance, with Fly High I can "cheat" part of my oponents main defense. Having below average ranged damage is irrelevant for the whole point (and not having the option to go full magic or melee doesn't help).

Btw, I completely agree with them. As a KO player, I'm really bored about Alpha Strikes, even if they are the most competitive gameplay for KOs. They are not fun.

Yes I hear that. Mortal wounds can bypass some abilities and that can be annoying.. but if I am to get 8 damage for example on my unit in the end I care what damage I endured and less how it was applied. But I do see your point.

Regarding fly high yes it can be annoying as are all extreme movement tricks.. in general AoS in my opinion can benefit greatly from toning down th edamage units can apply and the extreme movement many armies have..

An easy fix is to make the first turn priority happen on a dice roll rather than the player who finishes deplyment getting to choose.. Just give him a +1 or to win ties and the game will be much more balanced, because every general will have to deploy without the knowledge whether he'll go first or second making for more dynamic deployments and more dynamic games without one drop predetermined plans that have a result some armies losing without getting to play..

[Siegfried VII]

4 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Sun metal weapons also exist in combat. It's annoying on wardens too. Sentinels are annoying because they can dump mortal wounds with no counter at all from almost anywhere on the board, and there's not much even other shooting armies can do about it, what tween their range and shining company.

 

Mortal wounds throw the game off, and slaanesh has the same "precision strike" moved to wounds, where if it really needs to exist, it should be.  And also, like, not be on 5s with an increasingly trivial spellcast. It's a bad mechanic, and if Lumineth lost it or had it forced to wounds the army would still be in the top tables, but be ever so slightly less oppressive. Which, ya know, needs to happen because the army is overpowered as is.

 

 

Mate the army is not overpowered. I respect your opinion on the sunmetal ability but I dissagree. If Lumineth would have to lose the rule they would need much more robust stats to make up for it or else they would be the new Sylvaneth.

I've seen your posts on the generic topic on regarding Lumineth and I'm not interested in having a debate here for a topic we'll never see eye to eye..

So let's agree that we dissagree and both be happy! 🙂 

[stratigo]

20 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

Yes I hear that. Mortal wounds can bypass some abilities and that can be annoying.. but if I am to get 8 damage for example on my unit in the end I care what damage I endured and less how it was applied. But I do see your point.

Regarding fly high yes it can be annoying as are all extreme movement tricks.. in general AoS in my opinion can benefit greatly from toning down th edamage units can apply and the extreme movement many armies have..

An easy fix is to make the first turn priority happen on a dice roll rather than the player who finishes deplyment getting to choose.. Just give him a +1 or to win ties and the game will be much more balanced, because every general will have to deploy without the knowledge whether he'll go first or second making for more dynamic deployments and more dynamic games without one drop predetermined plans that have a result some armies losing without getting to play..

Fly high makes deployment mostly meaningless for KO. They set up anywhere and go anywhere. 

 

Rolling for first turn after deployment is actually a bad choice, but AoS took an even worse choice with the attempts to out drop enemies and battalions. They should implement what they did in 40k. Players know who is going first before setup. This is rather more balanced, as has been felt in 40k. It really helps mitigate the first turn alpha strike. Now AoS has the double turn, which just needs to go, for this change to mean anything.

 

19 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

Mate the army is not overpowered. I respect your opinion on the sunmetal ability but I dissagree. If Lumineth would have to lose the rule they would need much more robust stats to make up for it or else they would be the new Sylvaneth.

I've seen your posts on the generic topic on regarding Lumineth and I'm not interested in having a debate here for a topic we'll never see eye to eye..

So let's agree that we dissagree and both be happy! 🙂 

Of course you disagree, taking sunmetal weapons away would make it slightly harder to win.

Mate, the army is over performing in competition, and like, obviously doesn't pass the smell check, let's not pretend because you play the army, that the army isn't in the top three. And you just got a big option to kick seraphon in the nards (and most other armies too really)

[Siegfried VII]

3 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Rolling for first turn after deployment is actually a bad choice, but AoS took an even worse choice with the attempts to out drop enemies and battalions. They should implement what they did in 40k. Players know who is going first before setup. This is rather more balanced, as has been felt in 40k. It really helps mitigate the first turn alpha strike. Now AoS has the double turn, which just needs to go, for this change to mean anything.

 

Of course you disagree, taking sunmetal weapons away would make it slightly harder to win.

Mate, the army is over performing in competition, and like, obviously doesn't pass the smell check, let's not pretend because you play the army, that the army isn't in the top three. And you just got a big option to kick seraphon in the nards (and most other armies too really)

Regarding what you say in 40k I haven't been in the know for some years now so it may or may not be better, I have no informed opinion regarding this..

The army is not top 3 and all the stats so far are proof of that. That is a FACT that you cannot deny. Now in the future if they actually become top 3 the stats will show it and you'll be able to state your claim backed up by facts.

Anything other than that is our subjective opinions and views so as I said not interested to have a debate with you. Have a nice day!

[Beliman]

15 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

Yes I hear that. Mortal wounds can bypass some abilities and that can be annoying.. but if I am to get 8 damage for example on my unit in the end I care what damage I endured and less how it was applied. But I do see your point.

I think that's the main problem. Playing against someone that already knows his average dmg and you can't do anything to stop that:
If my 5 wounds with 4+ save hero is attacked by 10 Thunderes, he will probably be dead after some focus fire (don't quote me on that, I didn't make numbers for this example). But if I can position him to at least have cover and Look Out Sir, maybe he will survive the first focus fire.
That's not the case when we put mortal wounds inbetween.

A good option could be to remove mortal wounds from all "to hit" rolls  (or only for some nighthaunts?) and, Imho, stop magic users to cast spells when they are in melee range unless they have something as battlemage keyword instead of wizard, or whatever.

 

[Siegfried VII]

17 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I think that's the main problem. Playing against someone that already knows his average dmg and you can't do anything to stop that:
If my 5 wounds with 4+ save hero is attacked by 10 Thunderes, he will probably be dead after some focus fire (don't quote me on that, I didn't make numbers for this example). But if I can position him to at least have cover and Look Out Sir, maybe he will survive the first focus fire.
That's not the case when we put mortal wounds inbetween.

A good option could be to remove mortal wounds from all "to hit" rolls  (or only for some nighthaunts?) and, Imho, stop magic users to cast spells when they are in melee range unless they have something as battlemage keyword instead of wizard, or whatever.

 

But you can't know for sure if power of hysh will be cast. If it fails the Sentinels really almost lose a turn of shooting in terms of damage. Also the 5+ or 6+ may not roll the average. On top of that if the enemy character has a mortal wounds protecion then Sentinels get much less effective. 

In the end yes fewer dice get rolled but luck is still there.

Small heroes could be buffed but then we risk having unkillable deathstar units with tons of buffs to make their damage etc insane.. That too if the opponent has no similar ways to buff their units can lead to advantages one of the two players can't do anything about.. 

Another example is summoning where the armies that have it end up playing with 500+pts or more which is not very nice in my opinion.. Slaanesh in the new book has overcosted units for that reason I think, but other armies just play with more points..

In the and it is a very fine line and I don't envy the rules writers of GW at all regarding this. It is very difficult to balance the mechanics of all these vast unique armies without getting them in the end to look all too similar..

Edited April 6, 2021 by Siegfried VII

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, stratigo said:

Sun metal weapons also exist in combat. It's annoying on wardens too. Sentinels are annoying because they can dump mortal wounds with no counter at all from almost anywhere on the board, and there's not much even other shooting armies can do about it, what tween their range and shining company.

 

Mortal wounds throw the game off, and slaanesh has the same "precision strike" moved to wounds, where if it really needs to exist, it should be.  And also, like, not be on 5s with an increasingly trivial spellcast. It's a bad mechanic, and if Lumineth lost it or had it forced to wounds the army would still be in the top tables, but be ever so slightly less oppressive. Which, ya know, needs to happen because the army is overpowered as is.

 

 

Nah mate you are just wrong on the math. The army already has low dmg with sunmetal. Without Sunmetal weapons that drops to at best 2/3 of its already low dmg output. 

[Chumphammer]

6 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

This raises the question whether it's not just better to simply take another Cathaller, though. For me personally, that has always been my problem with bodyguard units: Most of the time, I'd rather have another copy of whatever they are guarding.

Having a 2nd Cathallar is 20pts more. Yeah, you get an additional spell and set of her rules, but shes still a 5W model with a 5+AS

I would rather spend 120pts for a 10W on a 4+ to keep my 2 casting piece alive, plus the bladelords can fight back if shes targetted by teleporters/deep strikers and shes out of position 

[Aelfric]

I'm considering running 10 Bladelords with the Twins.  They have the Scinari keyword, are a 2 cast wizard with a 3+ save and decent melee, so can be fairly aggressive with them.  The two units together should be fairly capable on the front line and if you give them Lambent light, they can help your Sentinels at the same time.  Alternatively, give them Protection of Hysh and use Mystic Shield on the Bladelords to make both units tankier.

What do people think?

[Pyrescribe]

18 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

What do people think?

I think this sounds fun and I'm going to try the same.

[Chumphammer]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

I'm considering running 10 Bladelords with the Twins.  They have the Scinari keyword, are a 2 cast wizard with a 3+ save and decent melee, so can be fairly aggressive with them.  The two units together should be fairly capable on the front line and if you give them Lambent light, they can help your Sentinels at the same time.  Alternatively, give them Protection of Hysh and use Mystic Shield on the Bladelords to make both units tankier.

What do people think?

Do the twins have the Scinari keyword? hmm, yeah then that could work well. Keeping the sword around till turn 3-5 can cause a lot of damage.  Could be a good option for the point especially if you have the twins bubble protection of Hysh 

[LuminethMage]

5 hours ago, Aelfric said:

I'm considering running 10 Bladelords with the Twins.  They have the Scinari keyword, are a 2 cast wizard with a 3+ save and decent melee, so can be fairly aggressive with them.  The two units together should be fairly capable on the front line and if you give them Lambent light, they can help your Sentinels at the same time.  Alternatively, give them Protection of Hysh and use Mystic Shield on the Bladelords to make both units tankier.

What do people think?

I did that with 5. I don’t know how competitive they are but the Twins are fun. Double caster and from BR 3 they can do nice damage. I also experienced the teleport, in T4. Healed them up to full, and can be super powerful I think in late game, when you can reposition a 20+ damage potential unit to - most often - where you need it, because there is a lot of space. 

They are fun to play. 

[LuminethMage]

10 hours ago, Beliman said:

I think that's the main problem. Playing against someone that already knows his average dmg and you can't do anything to stop that:
If my 5 wounds with 4+ save hero is attacked by 10 Thunderes, he will probably be dead after some focus fire (don't quote me on that, I didn't make numbers for this example). But if I can position him to at least have cover and Look Out Sir, maybe he will survive the first focus fire.
That's not the case when we put mortal wounds inbetween.

A good option could be to remove mortal wounds from all "to hit" rolls  (or only for some nighthaunts?) and, Imho, stop magic users to cast spells when they are in melee range unless they have something as battlemage keyword instead of wizard, or whatever.

 

Some armies having no protection at all against MW is certainly a problem. And fully buffed Sentinels with Lambent Light are really scary, and I can see how it can be not fun to be on the receiving end of them - because they reliably are able to delete or at least cripple even bigger threats, which happened in my last game - I one-shot a Sorceress on a Black Dragon. Now the Sorceress isn't the best example because many units likely are able to delete her in one go - and to do that my investment was 280 (20 Sentinels) + 160 (Loreseeker) points, and two spells had to go off (which isn't too difficult because I play Zaitrec and had the Twinstones out - another 30 points). But 13 MW (the 14th wound was a single hit otherwise which went through ...) on whatever from a single unit in the end is pretty rough on the other player. 

It is a big investment and many armies can do the same thing with units that cost that much points, but as you say it's reliable (once the LRL player gets everything in place), and from afar, which probably feels worse than if a Mawcrusher deleted you, because at least there you might have an opportunity to screen etc. (in reality it might not be that different, it likely does feel different)

I'm not opposed to changing the mechanic, but it would mean that they have to totally redesign Lumineth. I'm a bit torn of this - I think it's good for the game that there are armies out that do things differently, like KO and Lumineth. Although, not everyone likes it, and it can pose some problems with certain match-ups. Hopefully they'll have brought most of the other factions up to par once BR is finished. Some of the older factions are definitely missing tools to deal with some of the new stuff newer armies have. I also like that KO and Lumineth are very well done in terms of their lore fitting with how they work in the game. You have the same with certain other armies. 

On the other hand, relying as much as LRL on MW is also a bit of a trap, if more factions get MW protection (which I'll think is going to happen), there isn't that much left in damage output besides that. Right now it looks great or even OP to some, but this could change fast. 

Lumineth have strong warscrolls, but you can't really create super units on par with something like Witch Aelves, HGB etc. LRL don't have certain buffs like additional attacks or plus damage, so the overall damage output besides MW is pretty low. But, as a LRL player you have the tools do destroy your opponent's synergies, and if that works out, most of LRL warscrolls are very good for their points. They gave LRL MW as one tool to be able to control your opponent. A fully buffed CoS unit is better than what I can bring, once I manage to kill the synergy parts though (taking out the heroes etc.), and it's just warscroll against warscroll, my units are just plain better overall for their points. But if LRL wouldn't be able to do this from time to time they'd likely would either need more overall damage, even more control options or something else to make them work as GW apparently planned them to. It's would be like taking away most of the mobility from KO. You'd have to seriously re-design the whole army. 

They still kept the high MW output limited to a few occasions - LRL can only cast one lambent light per turn. LRL don't have many high damage spells, and they are located across three several different lores, etc. 

I think it'll get better once we have more armies updated, and people get more used to playing against LRL. 

Ugh that got way too long. 

[Beliman]

I wasn't talking about power-level . Numbers can go up and down in just one FAQ, or maybe with the new GHB or just one new model that brings a new combo. But how the  whole army plays, that's a diferent story, only a new battletome can change that.

17 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

But you can't know for sure if power of hysh will be cast. If it fails the Sentinels really almost lose a turn of shooting in terms of damage. Also the 5+ or 6+ may not roll the average. On top of that if the enemy character has a mortal wounds protecion then Sentinels get much less effective. 

In the end yes fewer dice get rolled but luck is still there.

My mistake, I wasn't talking about Lumineth rolls (it's a dice game). I was talking more about what the opponent can do to minimize your rolls. If it's just about my own dices, I can try to stabilize them with whatever tools I have (as @LuminethMage said, bonus to casting, CP to reroll 1s, Lambent Light, allies, etc...). But we can't control what the opponent will do.

1. You shoot with your 2+/2+ ranged attacks unit?  (and I don't care what you did to buff your unit).
2. Take that 2+save with -2 to be hit!! Or worst, you can't hit me because I'm behind a wall!

That's what I was talking about. Not about power-level.

5 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

It's would be like taking away most of the mobility from KO. You'd have to seriously re-design the whole army. 

That's my point. I don't have any problem to restrict Fly High if I can play with other tools (better melee, better defense, some type of "runic-system", some type of "chartered companies", etc...).  And to be honest, I want to restrict shooting and casting too. That's why I think that a full re-design is not needed, but some tweaks are a must.

At the same time, I don't think that we need more "mortal wounds" or more "ignore mw" mechanics. I prefer other mechanics as auto-hit, auto-wound, more high rend (-4) vs high armor saves (2+), more wounds per monster, negative modifiers based on warscrolls and not buffs (scaly skin, cloud of flies, etc...), etc... that type of stuff. 

Edit: Curious that GW is looking for a Lead Game Developer:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/lead-games-developer-warhammer-age-of-sigmar

Edited April 7, 2021 by Beliman

[LuminethMage]

I think it's ok to have one army like the KO or Lumineth among such a big range of factions. For me for example - MW says "magic effect", which differs from -3 or -4 rend (which is essentially the same - you don't get a save). Which means you can differentiate factions from each other - MW are more magic-focused factions, and sometimes more magic-resistant factions (in case of wards). It's an extra layer you can work with to differentiate.

I feel the same about Fly High - it's something which makes KO special, and I think it's ok as a mechanic, even if it's really annoying for some factions - as long as only a few armies have it. Some people really enjoy playing with such a mobile army, that get's destroyed if it's cornered, but will win almost unscathed if not. 

It's the same with Idoneth - their ability to  control who you can shoot. Or Undead being immune to Battleshock. Even though all those things can be rough to deal with for some factions, ultimately I think it makes for a more interesting game, and attract more people to the game, even though some match-ups will suffer and become less interesting.  

But likely we'll see them swing in another direction again in AoS 3.0. The developers always change things to keep it fresh and interesting. The game was melee-centric for a long time, now it's more about shooting, and magic is strong. It will change again, I'm sure.

[Beliman]

@LuminethMage It's a matter of taste I suppose.

I don't feel that save after saves are about anti-magic anymore. There are armies that are specialized to deal with magic opponents like Khorne (?), others, like Fyreslayers, have anti-everything, not just anti-magic (HGB 4+save after save). And all antimagic sub-faccions are about bonus to ignore spells or better unbinds.  Giving mortal wounds to charges, melee attacks, ranged attacks, bombs, etc... doesn't help too. 

That makes the whole "magic in AoS" a bit blurry. Let's them be completely clear to why X thing do mortal wounds, and what the enemy can do to stop them (and why).

And don't get me wrong, I'm with you that giving some special gameplay to all armies. That's why I want some tweaks and not a full re-design. Some example to KOs (I'm not good enough with Lumineth):

• Limit Fly High a bit. Maybe limit how many times they can jump or the maximum distance that skyvessels can "move". Maybe turn the hability to a "move" and not a "set-up". That kind of stuff.
• Change pistols to be a melee and ranged profiles (chose only one per round). That will make arkanauts and other units really good with melee buffs.
• More interactions with special weapons: One to kill high save armors, other to be 100% precise vs hordes, another one that could shoot endless spells (ghostbusters!!), etc... not just pew-pew-pew because dmg.

You get the point. Just a bit more polished rules.

[LuminethMage]

I think it’s not a right/wrong issue. I also don’t think the current situation is perfect : ). 

[Kirby]

On 4/7/2021 at 2:09 AM, Aelfric said:

I'm considering running 10 Bladelords with the Twins.  They have the Scinari keyword, are a 2 cast wizard with a 3+ save and decent melee, so can be fairly aggressive with them.  The two units together should be fairly capable on the front line and if you give them Lambent light, they can help your Sentinels at the same time.  Alternatively, give them Protection of Hysh and use Mystic Shield on the Bladelords to make both units tankier.

What do people think?

This could work but:

A turn, or two perhaps, to get in to position and then you charge the unit shielding your main target.  Unfortunately, you roll a one at the end of combat and have to teleport the twins out.  All your careful manoeuvring has been in vain. It would take at least another turn to get back in the twins back in the thick of it and the twins have abandoned their guardians. 

Also, the twins only have 1" range, so they cant do any damage if they choose to wait outside combat while chaff is cleared.

This, 8 wounds, and 3+ save with the ability to cast for 5++ save, leads me to think bladelord bodyguards may be better suited to Callathar, Loreseeker, Calligrave protection.  The Loreseeker and Calligrave both have better range that could cause damage while hiding behind their guardians. 

[zilberfrid]

It's good that they are looking at a new lead dev. The one that wrote the first batch of Lumineth rules would do better in a different career. Or at least, the game could be better that way.

Making a book that you basically need to buy just to face it because it just doesn't play the same game as you might appeal to stockholders, but taints the whole of AoS.

[Aelfric]

6 hours ago, Kirby said:

This could work but:

A turn, or two perhaps, to get in to position and then you charge the unit shielding your main target.  Unfortunately, you roll a one at the end of combat and have to teleport the twins out.  All your careful manoeuvring has been in vain. It would take at least another turn to get back in the twins back in the thick of it and the twins have abandoned their guardians. 

Also, the twins only have 1" range, so they cant do any damage if they choose to wait outside combat while chaff is cleared.

This, 8 wounds, and 3+ save with the ability to cast for 5++ save, leads me to think bladelord bodyguards may be better suited to Callathar, Loreseeker, Calligrave protection.  The Loreseeker and Calligrave both have better range that could cause damage while hiding behind their guardians. 

There is always the possibility that they will teleport out after combat, but that is not necessarily a weakness.  If you have eliminated your foe during the combat, then they can reappear in the same space.  If it happens in your opponent's combat phase, then you could return to that spot in your turn.  This is also probably happening during mid to late game, so there will likely be other places where they could be beneficial if they can't return there.

I also think there is an element of mind-games here.  Your opponent will know that they may teleport away to somewhere else;  if they have an unguarded or lightly guarded objective elsewhere it may give them pause before attacking, and it's only right and proper after all to remind them of this ability just in case they've forgotten in the heat of battle.  It will also require a fairly large commitment to take out the Twins and 10 Bladelords on a 5++.  Thats an extra 20 wounds for the Twins, a third of which will be mitigated by the DPR  and the combined output of the two units is not shabby either, especially from turn 3 onwards.  

No strategem is without risk, but then isn't that part of the enjoyment - to make plans and savour the satisfation of seeing it work or the anguish of seeing those carefully laid plans going awry.  At least in this instance you have the opportunity of turning the forced teleport to your advantage, so all is not necessarily lost.

[Aelfric]

On 4/6/2021 at 11:25 PM, LuminethMage said:

I did that with 5. I don’t know how competitive they are but the Twins are fun. Double caster and from BR 3 they can do nice damage. I also experienced the teleport, in T4. Healed them up to full, and can be super powerful I think in late game, when you can reposition a 20+ damage potential unit to - most often - where you need it, because there is a lot of space. 

They are fun to play. 

Having tried the Twins with 5 Bladelords, do you think there is value in increasing them to a unit of 10.  I feel that with 10, you can have more tactical choices than holding an objective, that it could allow you to take on larger parts of your opponent's forces.  It would be good to hear from somebody who has some practical experience of using them. 

Was 5 a bit limiting or is 10 a bit overkill and the points better invested elsewhere?