AoS 2 - Settler's Gain (Broken Realms: Teclis) Discussion

[Double Misfire]

So it looks like we're getting another new city allegiance in the second Broken Realms book (anyone else hoping this continues for the entire series?), and unsurprisingly given who's name is on the cover, it's a 1 in 4 units may be Lumineth one.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/26/how-to-survive-a-godly-smackdown-between-teclis-and-nagash/

 

I'm sure there are some CoS keyword shenanigans someone better acquainted with point elves can probably explain. Teclis throwing out empowered endless spells anyone?

[CommissarRotke]

Can't really comment on anything COS or LRL wise, but I'm hoping this means LRL will get more allies than IDK in their new tome? I was surprised they didn't launch with Stormcast as allies

[Doko]

I allready did a post with all the rules and options of this city lol

[Clan's Cynic]

Imagine being subservient to Elves.

(This post was made by the Dawi throng)

Edited March 26, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Talas]

Using the city with Teclis would be really interesting.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

I've been looking forward to a Hyshian city! I had a feeling there would be one since there's  Collegiate Arcane box coming with the book.

Light Wizard general with Flagellant battleline, Phoenix Temple, and both Lumineth and Stormcast friends. I don't care how competitive it is, my army of light is a go!

Edited March 26, 2021 by Thalassic Monstrosity

[dekay]

Unblockable teleport, go!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, dekay said:

Unblockable teleport, go!

What spells does Teclis get in Settler's Gain? Just one of the lore spells of that city like any other wizard?

[JackStreicher]

This city is interesting! I wonder if we‘ll get to play Ulfencarn as such a city as well 🤔

[dekay]

17 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

What spells does Teclis get in Settler's Gain? Just one of the lore spells of that city like any other wizard?

I guess just the standard city lore spells.

Doesn't matter, he just needs to cast uncounterable bridge turn 1 and +1 to hit from the city lore and mystic shield on auto 12 after that.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I have been looking into Settler's Gain for a bit, since I already have a Freeguild themed Cities army and Settler's Gain has interactions with Freeguild and Collegiate Arcane.

Keep in mind that I don't have the book, so all my info comes from previews and might not be 100% correct and complete.

Allegiance abilities:

Overall, pretty good!

• An extra artefact and +1 to cast is a good generic ability. You can easily get to +3 to cast in this faction.
• 1 in 4 Lumineth is strong, plenty of good units.
• The command ability to give a Battleshock Immunity bubble for Freeguild is quite welcome. You need to run a Lumineth hero to do this, though.

Command traits:

Not the best, in my opinion. Don't feel bad about making a named character your general in this one.

• Giving a unit Fly is OK, but there is no hero in CoS that really wants to fly but does not already. The Steam Tank maybe, but that's a meme unit.
• Gaining a command point on a 4+ is good, just boring in a faction that can already get lots of command points. Just play Hammerhal and get all the command points you would ever want.
• +1 to hit and wound in melee is strong, but the downside of -1 to saves is severe.

Artefacts:

Locked to Collegiate Arcane heroes of all things. That means the Battlemage, Hurricanum kit units and Battlemage on Griffon. But they are overall pretty decent.

• The extra cast and extra dispell artefacts are nice.
• 4+ revive is nice, but what hero really wants it? Do I really want a Hurricanum sitting around at 1 wound?
• +2 attacks in melee is not good on anyone who can take it.
• Getting to run+charge on a 2+ might have some fringe uses.
• 6+ ward save and 5+ spell ignore is a good all-round pick. Gets worse if you have a Luminark, though.

Spells:

Kind of disappointing. You get a lot of cast bonuses, but the spell lore is hard to use. Might be better to lean into Endless Spells with this city.

• -2 to cast/unbind bubble for all wizards within 12" range. Potentially good, but hard to use.
• 6+ ward save (I think also a bubble?). Not that good, you already have several ways to get this effect.
• Mark an enemy unit with +1 to be hit. 12" range. A strong effect, but the range is kind of short.

Battalion:

• Arcobalde (Battlemage), Luminark of Hysh (no mage), Celestial Hurricanum with Battlemage
• Gives the Luminark a 5+ ward bubble instead of 6+ and allows it to "reroll hits" with it's laser.
• 140 points

Hard to say if this one is worth it. The effect of this battalion is good, but not 140 points good. I am not sure if Arcobalde can take an artefact/command trait or if he needs to be a Hysh battlemage. Might be a good way to get an extra artefact and command point and get all your support mages in one go. If you make the Hurricanum your general, Arcobalde can be the adjutant, as well, so that's those roles taken care of. I think I would like this battalion a lot better if it was slightly cheaper and only had a Hurricanum with Mage and Luminark with Mage.

---

So what are possible builds for this city?

I think the allegiance abilities suggest a build where you bring Freeguild as your troops and Lumineth heroes and Collegiate Arcane wizards to support them.

You will likely only get two or three Lumineth units in your list, so what are good options here?

For heroes, Eltharion seems pretty good. He is sturdy enough to run with your Freeguild infantry core and give them battleshock immunity when needed, and he benefits from the support magic and ward save effects you can put on him.

The new Loreseeker can go an capture a point on his own pre-game without the need for a lot of support/synergy, so he's not a bad one-off hero.

Lumineth infantry are not better than Cities infantry, by and large. But Lumineth long range shooting is! Bringing a unit or two of Sentinels (or Starshard Ballistas if you don't want your opponent to hate you) is not a bad way to use your 1 in 4 Lumineth.

The Lumineth range is big now and there are a lot of good options to pull from. I personally think going for combat heroes or troops you can't otherwise easily get in cities is the way to go. For wizards, bringing Collegiate Arcane seems better in this allegiance.

[Marcvs]

I am afraid that the inclusion of the foot wizard and the requirement of a non-hero luminark (plus the price) make the battalion really hard to take, which is sad because the bonuses in themselves are good.

As I see it, when building this city you either start with the battalion or with Teclis as your core, both with the purpose to provide a platform to get the 5+ FNP and cast the soulscream bridge. From there, the more evident way forward (not necessarily the best) is irondrakes + runelord and freeguild troops for bodies and screens. Possibly 20 sentinels for the hero sniping.

Unfortunately this basically means medium to high drops and a castle build, with a high risk of losing your lynchpin (Teclis  or the luminark) to shooting.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

10 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I am afraid that the inclusion of the foot wizard and the requirement of a non-hero luminark (plus the price) make the battalion really hard to take, which is sad because the bonuses in themselves are good.

As I see it, when building this city you either start with the battalion or with Teclis as your core, both with the purpose to provide a platform to get the 5+ FNP and cast the soulscream bridge. From there, the more evident way forward (not necessarily the best) is irondrakes + runelord and freeguild troops for bodies and screens. Possibly 20 sentinels for the hero sniping.

Unfortunately this basically means medium to high drops and a castle build, with a high risk of losing your lynchpin (Teclis  or the luminark) to shooting.

I think you are right that this is the most competitive way to build the city. Although you have to ask yourself why you are not just running Hallowheart if you are going Soulscream + Irondrakes.

I think there is some room for more causal janky builds, though. For example, maybe the Battlemage on Griffin will finally have a place where he can be... decent? He certainly seems like the prime receiver for some of the artefacts from this city.

Taking Spirits of the Mountain might be tempting. CoS does not really have access to combat monsters of this type otherwise, and you can use the named version as a platform for the battleshock immunity bubble. If you bring a Stone Mage as well, he can make the spirit work at his top bracket if he's nearby and will get to use the battleshock immunity bubble for free if he's within 6". The Spirit of the Mountain also offers synergy to your other troops by giving enemies -1 to hit, and has synergy with CoS buff pieces by getting wound negation and bonuses to hit. Your Freeguild with shields might become pretty sturdy with a 5+ FNP, -1 to be hit and battleshock immunity. It's a bit of a death star, of course.

[l1censetochill]

As someone who collects Cities, Stormcast and Lumineth, I've gotta admit I'm a bit bummed out by the rules for Settler's Gain - I was hoping for a way to blend a bunch of my favorite models together on the table, but the rules here feel so clunky I'm having a hard time even coming up with lists.

Limiting all of the casting bonuses, artifacts and even spell lores to just Collegiate Arcane wizards feels so restrictive, particularly in comparison to Hallowheart. I know Teclis is a monster regardless, but I don't own his model and it makes pretty much all of the other Lumineth and Stormcast wizard units feel like a waste. In fact, with no buffs and without their allegiance abilities (Aetherquartz, Shining Company), I feel like most Lumineth units will perform pretty poorly in comparison to regular, similarly-costed Cities units like Eternal Guard. Sentinels would still be good, of course.

I'm sure I'll still kick a few lists around, though. I quite like @Neil Arthur Hotep's idea of taking Avalenor as a combat monster with a -1 to hit bubble. Paired with a Battlemage with Pha's Protection and a Luminark's FNP bubble, you've got some options to castle up quite well on one or two objectives.

Edited March 30, 2021 by l1censetochill

[Doko]

The rules itsself are 100% useless and worse than every of our old citys(ignoring phoenixium)

 

This city is only for players that want play with some lumineths units and dont matter be competitive

[Howdyhedberg]

I agree that the rules don't seem that exciting.

But I could really use 20 sentinels in my cos army. (Luckily I collect both CoS and LRL, so I'm set!). 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I put a bit of thought into a Settler's Gain shell that uses the battalion:

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Settler's Gain
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Arcobalde (Battlemage) (110)
- Lore of Whatever it's called: Drain Magic
- Mortal Realm: Hysh
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Artefact: Silver-Plated Wand
- Lore of Whatever it's called: Illumination
The Light of Eltharion (220)

Battleline
40 x Freeguild Guard (280)
- Swords and Shields

Units
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)

Behemoths
Luminark of Hysh (210)

Battalions
Xintil War-Magi (140)

Total: 1440 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 94

 

---

 

The idea here is that you basically get two teams:

 

Team 1:

Eltharion, Battlemage, Luminark and Freeguild Guard

 

This is your anvil. While in range of the Luminark, your Freeguild Guard have a 5+ FNP. Swords and Shields mean that they are at a 4+ save base. You can also stack Pha's Protection onto them to make them even tankier, or use Drain Magic for an anti-magic bubble if you need to. Eltharion is fairly tanky, too: 7 wounds, 3+ ethereal and halving damage, plus now with a 5+ FNP. The whole unit can be made battleshock immune from the Aelven Training command ability (or just Inspiring Presence if you are only bringing one unit like I do here).

 

Offensively, these guys are not bad, either. Eltharion puts out good, high rend damage by himself and the Freeguild get 1 attack at 2+/4+ most of the time. You also get a few mortal wounds from the Luminark and Eltharion each turn.

 

Team 2:
Hurricanum and Pistoliers

 

These guys are supposed to be more offensive and mobile. The Silver-Plated Wand gives the Hurricanum two casts at +2. You can use that on it's warscroll spells and deal an expected 10 or so mortals per turn to one unit combined including the Storm of Shemtek (more if more units are in range) . Or it can cast Illumination to give an enemy within 12" +1 to be hit with ranged weapons. That will put the Pistoliers at +2 to hit combined with the Hurricanum's aura. That means they are at 2+/3+/-1/1 for their shooting, 4 attacks per model if they charge.

 

---

 

From here, you have 560 more points to play with. You could use those to add some Lumineth or Stormcast pet units. It could be a good idea to add some more Freeguild to make use of the Aelven Training Command ability better. For example, I think bringing 20 Freeguild Guard and 2x10 Handgunners might overall be better on the first team. I would also try to find room for another small hero somewhere, to get 4+ command point trait and General's Adjutant. Maybe sticking a Freeguild General with Team 1 would make sense for that. The Battlemage does not gain command traits or take artefacts, I think, since he's a named character from the battalion. Kind of sucks, it would make things much easier if he was generic (or even better yet if we had a Luminark with Battlemage).

 

It's noteworthy that you have three artefacts in this list from the battalion and Settler's Gains allegiance abilities, but not much that can take them. As far as I can tell, they need to go to Collegiate Arcane heroes. I personally don't believe it's worth it to take more battlemages just to use all your artefacts, but if you decide to run an additional Hurricanum and Luminark, that's a power move right there

 

EDIT:

One last thing, actually: Not taking the battalion might actually be the better list. That way, you would miss out on a command point and artefact (which you can't use right now anyway), but get the ability to forego the Battlemage for a Luminark with Battlemage. This makes the FNP only a 6+, but saves 190 points.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Evantas]

5 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

One last thing, actually: Not taking the battalion might actually be the better list. That way, you would miss out on a command point and artefact (which you can't use right now anyway), but get the ability to forego the Battlemage for a Luminark with Battlemage. This makes the FNP only a 6+, but saves 190 points.

I'm hoping they errata the artefact to allowing for Freeguild Heroes (seems obvious the intent is so). Although I'm tempted to agree with you, it feels like a wash overall. 

I'm not convinced a Teclis army is viable due to KO/Tzeech shooting on T1 (at least my meta is very KO-heavy), likely the battalion or double wagons are the only way forward, due to a higher chance the FNP will frustrate shooting armies.  

I'll be tempted to bring a 20-strong warden and 20-strong sentinels, if the wardens help to make the sentinels battleline. Does it?

Edited March 30, 2021 by Evantas

[Doko]

As the errata giving us spells to the city of morathi that never came lol

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

46 minutes ago, Doko said:

As the errata giving us spells to the city of morathi that never came lol

This case is a bit different, because the allegiance abilities say that Collegiate Arcane or Freeguild get an extra artefact, but the artefact table restricts them to only Collegiate Arcane. Seems like it could be a legitimate error. That said, I'm not holding my breath.

[Double Misfire]

37 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

This case is a bit different, because the allegiance abilities say that Collegiate Arcane or Freeguild get an extra artefact, but the artefact table restricts them to only Collegiate Arcane. Seems like it could be a legitimate error. That said, I'm not holding my breath.

You can always give a Freeguild hero the one Hysh artefact from the GHB 2020  

[dekay]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

This case is a bit different, because the allegiance abilities say that Collegiate Arcane or Freeguild get an extra artefact, but the artefact table restricts them to only Collegiate Arcane. Seems like it could be a legitimate error. That said, I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, as the realm artifacts exist, it's not 100% useless right now. You can always give a freeguild hero the Hysh item, so it's unlikely they'll faq it.

And,  on more positive note, despite some opinions, I'd say Settler's Gain is above Misthavn, power level wise. Due to some interesting combos with Lumineth, for me it's solidly mid tier, possibly higher after new Lumineth tome comes out and we'll figure out some stronger combos.

Also, hey, all those flying steam tank conversions people made in Thermalrider days have found their home again!

Another random idea, +1hit/wound trait is not terrible for assassin general. Assassin general is a pretty, well, exotic idea anyway, but if you really want shadowbade battleline, having your mandatory assassin do 2+/2+ without any support is not the worst thing that can happen. And you can give him said hysh artifact for free re rolls of 1's, too.

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

13 hours ago, dekay said:

Sadly, as the realm artifacts exist, it's not 100% useless right now. You can always give a freeguild hero the Hysh item, so it's unlikely they'll faq it.

And,  on more positive note, despite some opinions, I'd say Settler's Gain is above Misthavn, power level wise. Due to some interesting combos with Lumineth, for me it's solidly mid tier, possibly higher after new Lumineth tome comes out and we'll figure out some stronger combos.

Also, hey, all those flying steam tank conversions people made in Thermalrider days have found their home again!

Another random idea, +1hit/wound trait is not terrible for assassin general. Assassin general is a pretty, well, exotic idea anyway, but if you really want shadowbade battleline, having your mandatory assassin do 2+/2+ without any support is not the worst thing that can happen. And you can give him said hysh artifact for free re rolls of 1's, too.

 

I like the idea of an Assassin general! I think that might just about be the best use for Raging Outburst, since you don't really expect Assassins to live long, anyway. Having access to Shadow Warriors as battleline is nice, too. I think Settler's Gain incentivizes immobile list building otherwise, so that would probably help alleviate that tendency a bit.

Power wise, I'd say Settler's Gain in the middle of the pack. Definitely not as good as Hallowheart, Tempest's Eye and Hammerhal. Probably worse than Living City. But better than Misthavn, Greywater Fastness or Phoenicium.

The real problem is with finding a niche that other Cities don't just do better. That's why I have been trying to build mostly to theme with lots of Freeguild and Collegiate Arcane: If you just take generically good units or standard builds in this allegiance, the danger that Tempest's Eye or Hammerhal just does the same thing better is too high. Honestly, going high magic and or MSU Freeguild are probably nonstarters, because Hallowheart and Hammerhal outclass you there. I don't think the rules of Settler's Gain are weak in a vacuum (as in, the city can't compete at all), but they are mostly outclassed.

In my mind, the only real distinguishing feature of Settler's Gain is the 1 in 4 Lumineth rule. That alone already allows Settler's Gain to outclass Greywater when it comes to artillery builds, so that's both neat and kinda sad. As I said above, I think the Spirit of the Mountain might be worth a look, because Cities does not otherwise have very good monsters. Other than, I'm kind of drawing a blank, though.

[Frowny]

The battalion boosting the luminark to a 5+ seems pretty solid. It puts a lot of units on near phoenix guard durability, for potentially cheaper. 

If I were doing this city, I'd look to use the battalion along with freeguild greatswords for the 5++ on them. They already have top-tier output, and with the extra save, also have near top tier durability as well. The 5++ on the luminark and huricanum helps fix a little bit of their squishiness. A big 30 block of the lumineth spears also seems possible, although whether this whole thing is better than Just using Tecils in a lumineth list for similar buffs and a lot more external support. 

I agree that the spirt of the mountain or avenlor seem like the best Lumineth units to use. 

[Lightbox]

20 hours ago, dekay said:

Sadly, as the realm artifacts exist, it's not 100% useless right now. You can always give a freeguild hero the Hysh item, so it's unlikely they'll faq it.

And,  on more positive note, despite some opinions, I'd say Settler's Gain is above Misthavn, power level wise. Due to some interesting combos with Lumineth, for me it's solidly mid tier, possibly higher after new Lumineth tome comes out and we'll figure out some stronger combos.

Also, hey, all those flying steam tank conversions people made in Thermalrider days have found their home again!

Another random idea, +1hit/wound trait is not terrible for assassin general. Assassin general is a pretty, well, exotic idea anyway, but if you really want shadowbade battleline, having your mandatory assassin do 2+/2+ without any support is not the worst thing that can happen. And you can give him said hysh artifact for free re rolls of 1's, too.

 

See this is now making me want to make a fun little shadowblade focused force. I'm also having a lot of fun thinking about converting up a loreseeker into an assassin for it! I think for friendly local games this could be a cool idea, having lots of shadow warriors popping up whilst dark riders (and potentially dawnriders) run interference. Big mobility options for sure. I think a lot of lumineth options could go well with it, dawnriders for more mobility and chaff killing, skyshard ballista for ranged support, loreseeker for another unit to jump onto objectives, bladebringers for chaff clearing or quick surgical melee damage, wardens for having an actually defensive unit etc So definitely not a bad one to consider, even if it likely won't do great competetively it at least gives a lot of tactical play with all your popping up units and deciding where best to keep them.