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I'd 

1 minute ago, Scruf said:

What I am upset about is not getting some sort of handmaiden/spies models for Neferata's narrative. Maybe we'll get some cool rules for LoB though.

Yeah, I *really* want to see some mechanical representation of her spy network.  Force an enemy unit to deploy in reserve, or redeploy some of your own units after the enemy deployment is done, something like that.  I can live without it, but that's the sort of thing that would really make the subfaction feel like her own.

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On that note, I do wonder what our magic bloodline will be. Probably not Kastelai, doesn't look to be Legion of Night either, I very much doubt it would be Avengorii which leaves us with Legion of Blood and Vyrkos. 

Or, we might not get a magic heavy subfaction at all. 

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Just now, JackStreicher said:

He is/was a loremaster of Death and the Vampires Lore

He was honestly pretty nasty in 8th edition, rolling up a flank with some black knights, blasting an empowered purple sun down the length of the enemy battle line.  Good times.

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2 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

That just reminds me that I held out hope for Vlad or Abhorash being in this book. 

Geez I'm a clown xD

You're not the only one

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Really not liking the new Manfred hiding ability. While it is true that almost all battletomes in theory have answers for many actual lists he will be quite unkillable. 

The 'just go for objectives thing' is also not fair-his ability is also incredible for controlling objectives. For example, put him 3 inches infront of enemy battlelines to severely shorten their movement, only to fall back into an objective. Or charge a corner of an enemy to pin them, knowing if you are charged you are safe. Or even teleporting onto an enemy backline objective. And all without any way to stop him at all. Also, with likely easy access to at least some healing, even chip damage from incidental mortals/a few spells won't do it at all.

Armies with almost no counterplay to him- 

Sylvaneth (low damage spells, bow hunters are terrible)

Nighthaunt (easily dispelled low damage magic, only 2 ranged spells, 10+ charges are unreliable at best)

Fyreslayers (i guess auric hearth guard? A few prayers will never get it done consistently)

FEC (buff magic, no shooting)

Iron jaws (low damage magic, no ranged units)

Thorne (prayers would take prohibitively long and good luck to manage, the cannons are terrible)

Nurgle (some magic bit can likely be healed through or dispelled and certainly can't get rid of him in a timely manner)

There are also interesting played lists for most armies that can't deal with him-while the battletomes as a whole has answers, it's perfectly possible to see an idoneth list with a single turtle for shooting, slaanesh with no archers, DOK with no snake archers or many other fun fluffy lists that simply will never kill him.

That ability alone on a 10w/4+ save model is worth like 200pts. The LRL foxes actually have a worse version of this abilitythan his and are pretty usable, and cost 250/300 pts. Remember, even if he isn't an amazing combatant, he will still be solid, at least a 2 cast wizard and some sort of command ability.

I like that they removed some of the other npl in the 1cp resurrections, but I certainly hope there are other limits on that ability than we've seen because from what we know now this is likely to be another one.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Really not liking the new Manfred hiding ability. While it is true that almost all battletomes in theory have answers for many actual lists he will be quite unkillable. 

The 'just go for objectives thing' is also not fair-his ability is also incredible for controlling objectives. For example, put him 3 inches infront of enemy battlelines to severely shorten their movement, only to fall back into an objective. Or charge a corner of an enemy to pin them, knowing if you are charged you are safe. Or even teleporting onto an enemy backline objective. And all without any way to stop him at all. Also, with likely easy access to at least some healing, even chip damage from incidental mortals/a few spells won't do it at all.

Armies with almost no counterplay to him- 

Sylvaneth (low damage spells, bow hunters are terrible)

Nighthaunt (easily dispelled low damage magic, only 2 ranged spells, 10+ charges are unreliable at best)

Fyreslayers (i guess auric hearth guard? A few prayers will never get it done consistently)

FEC (buff magic, no shooting)

Iron jaws (low damage magic, no ranged units)

Thorne (prayers would take prohibitively long and good luck to manage, the cannons are terrible)

Nurgle (some magic bit can likely be healed through or dispelled and certainly can't get rid of him in a timely manner)

There are also interesting played lists for most armies that can't deal with him-while the battletomes as a whole has answers, it's perfectly possible to see an idoneth list with a single turtle for shooting, slaanesh with no archers, DOK with no snake archers or many other fun fluffy lists that simply will never kill him.

That ability alone on a 10w/4+ save model is worth like 200pts. The LRL foxes actually have a worse version of this abilitythan his and are pretty usable, and cost 250/300 pts. Remember, even if he isn't an amazing combatant, he will still be solid, at least a 2 cast wizard and some sort of command ability.

I like that they removed some of the other npl in the 1cp resurrections, but I certainly hope there are other limits on that ability than we've seen because from what we know now this is likely to be another one.

 

 

 

I know, right? Isn't it wonderful?
*rubs hands in glee

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4 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Really not liking the new Manfred hiding ability

I think we will have to see how it works out in practice. It's a strong ability, no doubt. It basically makes it so that Mannfred only gets into melee if he wants to be there. I'm not yet convinced that this is game breaking on a character who is only really worth their points if they fight in melee at some point, though. The rule is definitely very fluffy. Even if it proves to be too strong, I think it's fixable with points.

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9 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Armies with almost no counterplay to him- 

Sylvaneth (low damage spells, bow hunters are terrible)

Nighthaunt (easily dispelled low damage magic, only 2 ranged spells, 10+ charges are unreliable at best)

Fyreslayers (i guess auric hearth guard? A few prayers will never get it done consistently)

FEC (buff magic, no shooting)

Iron jaws (low damage magic, no ranged units)

Thorne (prayers would take prohibitively long and good luck to manage, the cannons are terrible)

Nurgle (some magic bit can likely be healed through or dispelled and certainly can't get rid of him in a timely manner)

Fyreslayers and FEC have access to always strike first ability. Big Waaagh have impact dmg and arrowboys who are pretty good lately.

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1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think we will have to see how it works out in practice..... Even if it proves to be too strong, I think it's fixable with points.

I agree. Waiting to see is clearly correct. My worry is that even if it's fixable with points overall, it will still make for swingy and negative experiences. An ability that is worth 0 points against kharadron overlords and 400 points against fyreslayers either leaves the Soulblight player feeling bad or their opponent. 

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8 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Really not liking the new Manfred hiding ability. While it is true that almost all battletomes in theory have answers for many actual lists he will be quite unkillable. 

The 'just go for objectives thing' is also not fair-his ability is also incredible for controlling objectives. For example, put him 3 inches infront of enemy battlelines to severely shorten their movement, only to fall back into an objective. Or charge a corner of an enemy to pin them, knowing if you are charged you are safe. Or even teleporting onto an enemy backline objective. And all without any way to stop him at all. Also, with likely easy access to at least some healing, even chip damage from incidental mortals/a few spells won't do it at all.

Armies with almost no counterplay to him- 

Sylvaneth (low damage spells, bow hunters are terrible)

Nighthaunt (easily dispelled low damage magic, only 2 ranged spells, 10+ charges are unreliable at best)

Fyreslayers (i guess auric hearth guard? A few prayers will never get it done consistently)

FEC (buff magic, no shooting)

Iron jaws (low damage magic, no ranged units)

Thorne (prayers would take prohibitively long and good luck to manage, the cannons are terrible)

Nurgle (some magic bit can likely be healed through or dispelled and certainly can't get rid of him in a timely manner)

There are also interesting played lists for most armies that can't deal with him-while the battletomes as a whole has answers, it's perfectly possible to see an idoneth list with a single turtle for shooting, slaanesh with no archers, DOK with no snake archers or many other fun fluffy lists that simply will never kill him.

That ability alone on a 10w/4+ save model is worth like 200pts. The LRL foxes actually have a worse version of this abilitythan his and are pretty usable, and cost 250/300 pts. Remember, even if he isn't an amazing combatant, he will still be solid, at least a 2 cast wizard and some sort of command ability.

I like that they removed some of the other npl in the 1cp resurrections, but I certainly hope there are other limits on that ability than we've seen because from what we know now this is likely to be another one.

 

 

 

We have no idea if this is an always ON ability or if it’s a CP ability. We also have no idea how prevalent CP’s are in AoS 3.0, and no idea how CP hungry this army will be. We have no idea WHATSOEVER about any of the core rules changes in AoS 3.0 or for that matter what changes there will be to all the existing battletome let alone the ones currently in the pipeline which we don’t know about. In short, we have NO IDEA about anything much apart from there being a new rule which allows Manfred to leave combat. That’s it. Everything else is speculation, and will be for at least a few weeks. So, probably... and sorry if I yet again seem confrontational, we can be a bit chill about everything being bad.
Cos. We. Don’t. Know. 

big love and respect for the passion and informative thoughts tho.x

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1 minute ago, Saodexan said:

Fyreslayers and FEC have access to always strike first ability. Big Waaagh have impact dmg and arrowboys who are pretty good lately.

Yes, but not all lists run those things. Further, forcing players even harder into running those things from a list building side probably also isn't good for the game-they themselves are often npl....

But, we'll wait and see and know more in a week. Exciting times.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

On that note, I do wonder what our magic bloodline will be. Probably not Kastelai, doesn't look to be Legion of Night either, I very much doubt it would be Avengorii which leaves us with Legion of Blood and Vyrkos. 

Or, we might not get a magic heavy subfaction at all. 

It was mentioned that grandma wolf was a powerful caster and all the totemic stuff made me think of powerful shamans more than capable of magic 😋 

Neferatas Legion might have some kind of trickery like tzeentchs with abilities on par with the changeling or some sort.. Or you can activate them like assassins 

There are several opportunities 😏

Edited by Aturox
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If it proves to be a major problem, it's also pretty fixable with errata moving the activation to end of combat instead of start, which would allow enemy melee units to charge him and get hits in before he left.  While it wouldn't be anywhere near as good, he wouldn't be able to fly about willy nilly taunting melee units, it would still be at least decent.  He'd have to skulk around behind his units, but could jump up to get a favorable charge on an engaged enemy and teleport away at the end of phase.  probably not anything that would see tournament play, though.

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Posted (edited)

so, ok mannfred dont goes in melee and can move away. I dont understand whats so nice? he dont have any ranged Profile and a not so good spell. Casts 2 spells that most of the army will bann easiliy. Do i miss something? I really dont understand why this should be so good? Can someone explain why this is sooo op? I would understand that comment if he had nice ranged Profile or ability,maybe agood spell, but he has nothing.

 

Edited by Erdemo86
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Forcing an enemy unit to be redeployed would be a great ability. Come on their board edge after turn one for example. 

Lumineth rules blew things wide open creativity wise, however so far our rules seem pretty tame. Mannfred can at least be charged and forced to relocate, or you can use pike in tricks to get him.

Sevireth says ****** you way more than Mannfred.

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Posted (edited)

oh ok looks like a fun gimmick but will not see play oin competetive envirements. 340 points and a wastet command trait for that gimmick? not worth

Edited by Erdemo86
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5 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

oh ok looks like a fun gimmick but will not see play oin competetive envirements. 340 points and a wastet command trait for that gimmick? not worth

Points not confirmed yet and its unlikely to be a command ability. I think he will retain his rerolls.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

oh ok looks like a fun gimmick but will not see play oin competetive envirements. 

No, it seems good enough for competitive play. Put Mannfred in positions where he threatens your opponent. If they commit, nope out of combat and go threaten a point on the other side of the table. If they don't commit, have Mannfred charge them at a weak point later on. It's good. Mannfred will get to take only favourable melee engagements and perpetually threaten back lines and objectives while he's on the field.

Edited by Neil Arthur Hotep
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5 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

oh ok looks like a fun gimmick but will not see play oin competetive envirements. 340 points and a wastet command trait for that gimmick? not worth

Nah, this fun little gimmick will win games and will 100% make competitive lists. Not every list, not by a long shot, but it will definitely feature in tournaments assuming all other factors are reasonable/within expectation. 

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slap his big base 3" in front of the enemy.  Make them walk all the way around him, slowing them way down, stopping them from getting to objectives, etc.  Or they charge him, and he just nopes out.  They're effectively slowed down even more, and manny gets to set up to pull the same trick next turn, or can teleport near some far flung exposed hero or small objective camper to easily charge in on your turn.  It's strong, and obnoxious.  I'm not convinced it's game winning on its own, definitely not sure its tournament winning with how strong shooting is lately, but it'll definitely see play, and could easily be as bad as the nay sayers fear.

I'm looking forward to trying it out.

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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

My current list is basically all Deathrattle so I am excited for the Legion of Blood reveal tomorrow.

Aye, that's my main love and until recently I ran a skelly heavy list. Flogged all my bones in preparation though so very eager to hear what's what. 

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