Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[BaylorCorvette]

23 minutes ago, El Syf said:

I'm still really wanting some sort of return to the fear rules using battleshock somehow. But again; mustn't get our hopes up.

Agreed, problem being is that too many things have immunity to battleshock and then on top of that a CP to just ignore that phase. So perhaps the fear mechanic is tied to bravery but it does mortal wounds or additional damage (or some other bonus), that way it is not just outright ignored by so many things various other armies have access to.

[Raptor_Jesues]

i would like that banners did something with bravery but not battleshock since it mostly does not exists but i think it could get complex and i feel like it is unlikely. I think they will stay -1 to bravery wich is quite a shame UNLESS we get loads of bravery targeting thingies 

[BaylorCorvette]

9 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

i would like that banners did something with bravery but not battleshock since it mostly does not exists but i think it could get complex and i feel like it is unlikely. I think they will stay -1 to bravery wich is quite a shame UNLESS we get loads of bravery targeting thingies 

The -1 Bravery Banner would be more useful if the army then could do something like I mentioned. Where maybe if a certain unit exceeds the targets bravery in some way they get a bonus to something (to hit, damage, etc). That could be a units warscroll, maybe a spell buff, endless spell, etc. There are ways to make the bravery thing work, BUT I think GW will take the easy way out and just try to make it linked to battle shocking the enemy.

[Raptor_Jesues]

52 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

The -1 Bravery Banner would be more useful if the army then could do something like I mentioned. Where maybe if a certain unit exceeds the targets bravery in some way they get a bonus to something (to hit, damage, etc). That could be a units warscroll, maybe a spell buff, endless spell, etc. There are ways to make the bravery thing work, BUT I think GW will take the easy way out and just try to make it linked to battle shocking the enemy.

100%

[BaylorCorvette]

I just realized that on the AoS app if you go into Grand Alliance Death they added the "Soulblight" as a faction, which currently only has the Cursed City models (minus Skeletons and Zombies). So that says to me that the Skeletons and Zombies are actually going to get an updated warscroll.

[Sception]

I don't count on an updated scroll for skittles & zombies, or anything else.  I'd like to see it - particularly better armor for skittles to match the new models and zombies in batches of 20 to allow for a more meaningful max unit discount - but GW doesn't like to update warscrolls if they can help it.  We've seen several op units stay op and several bad units stay bad because of this inertia.  It's a 'cross your fingers, but don't hold your breath' sort of thing.

[PraetorDragoon]

20 minutes ago, Sception said:

I don't count on an updated scroll for skittles & zombies, or anything else.  I'd like to see it - particularly better armor for skittles to match the new models and zombies in batches of 20 to allow for a more meaningful max unit discount - but GW doesn't like to update warscrolls if they can help it.  We've seen several op units stay op and several bad units stay bad because of this inertia.  It's a 'cross your fingers, but don't hold your breath' sort of thing.

At the very least they'll get an update on the keywords, so they get to belong to the Soulblight Gravelords allegiance.

[Evil Bob]

10 hours ago, Sception said:

But we'll see.  Won't bother me too much either way.  I'm a big fan of wights, necromancers, and whatever that cursed city grave digger dude is, so I'm not likely to be fielding more than one or two vampire heroes at a time regardless.

Wellll, Wights going into AoS from WFB did lose their very fluffy and scary weapons (which in WFB made up for their weaker combat stats compared to other elites).  I think that nerfing had a considerable effect on their lack of traction in AoS.  Considering what Blademasters just got maybe it’s time the elite bone-daddys got their original weapons back?

I am open to rebasing twenty plus old school metal+plastic mounted wights.  Just give me a compelling reason GW. 

[Sception]

Grave Guard didn't lose their fancy weapons, the rules for them changed.  That's what the double damage on 6's to wound represents.  And lack of that rule isn't what stops people from fielding wight kings, other than as a battalion tax.  Vampire lords being the same unit but better in every way for only 20 points more is what stops people from fielding wight kings.  If wight kings were cheaper, or if vampire lords didn't have a +1 attack unit buff CA, then people would be more inclined to run wight kings.

[warhammernerd]

Wight kings are just ****** for 120.

Weak ass stats, no spells, slow, command which only effects select units.

There is very little reason to run them unless you were running Deathmarch.

[Sception]

They're only slow if you don't give them a steed, and even then they can keep pace with the units you field them to buff.  And their stats aren't out of line for their concept, compared to the units they go with.

It's the point cost, at least 40 too high, and the fact that vampire lords come with a better version of their main thing, the bonus attack buff, on top of everything else they have.

[Evil Bob]

3 hours ago, Sception said:

Grave Guard didn't lose their fancy weapons, the rules for them changed.  That's what the double damage on 6's to wound represents.  And lack of that rule isn't what stops people from fielding wight kings, other than as a battalion tax.  Vampire lords being the same unit but better in every way for only 20 points more is what stops people from fielding wight kings.  If wight kings were cheaper, or if vampire lords didn't have a +1 attack unit buff CA, then people would be more inclined to run wight kings.

The AoS 6’s rule was garbage compared to WFB.  So yes they did lose their fancy weapons.    We can disagree to what degree that effect had but frankly it’s moot.

[Kaizennus]

Hey all,

Former fantasy player (roughly 16 years ago) looking to get back into it with AoS. I’ve been thinking to roll with the upcoming Soulblight since I used to love the Vampire Counts, but never collected them personally.

I know we’re likely a ways off from the release, but how “risky” would it be to start off my model collection with the Nagash starter set and building Arkhan as one of the vampires? From what I’ve seen in this thread it looks likely that most of the models will probably transition over right?

Is there a better way to start up the army while I wait? 

[Btimmy]

2 hours ago, Kaizennus said:

Hey all,

Former fantasy player (roughly 16 years ago) looking to get back into it with AoS. I’ve been thinking to roll with the upcoming Soulblight since I used to love the Vampire Counts, but never collected them personally.

I know we’re likely a ways off from the release, but how “risky” would it be to start off my model collection with the Nagash starter set and building Arkhan as one of the vampires? From what I’ve seen in this thread it looks likely that most of the models will probably transition over right?

Is there a better way to start up the army while I wait? 

You would be better off building Nef or Mannfred, as Arkhan isn't actually a vampire. For this reason, it is uncertain that he will be part of the new vampire battle tome at all. Neferata and Mannfred are almost certainly included though. If you were looking to start an army and didn't want to wait for any of the new sculpts, then skeletons, black knights, zombies, and wight kings have all been confirmed to be part of the new army. I would recommend getting the start collecting skeleton horde and magnetizing the mortarch kit that comes with it, so you can run Arkhan/Nef/Mannfred all from one model. 

[Kaizennus]

11 minutes ago, Btimmy said:

You would be better off building Nef or Mannfred, as Arkhan isn't actually a vampire. For this reason, it is uncertain that he will be part of the new vampire battle tome at all. Neferata and Mannfred are almost certainly included though. If you were looking to start an army and didn't want to wait for any of the new sculpts, then skeletons, black knights, zombies, and wight kings have all been confirmed to be part of the new army. I would recommend getting the start collecting skeleton horde and magnetizing the mortarch kit that comes with it, so you can run Arkhan/Nef/Mannfred all from one model. 

Oh, yes that’s what I meant, I had heard you could build the hero as a vampire instead of Arkhan.

I realize this is going beyond the scope of the thread topic, but are there any particularly good resources for magnetization?

If I were to go with one model however, is there any particular favorite for which hero to choose? I realize though that it’s hard to judge without knowing more about the new army book.

Thank you for your response though~

[Btimmy]

23 minutes ago, Kaizennus said:

Oh, yes that’s what I meant, I had heard you could build the hero as a vampire instead of Arkhan.

I realize this is going beyond the scope of the thread topic, but are there any particularly good resources for magnetization?

If I were to go with one model however, is there any particular favorite for which hero to choose? I realize though that it’s hard to judge without knowing more about the new army book.

Thank you for your response though~

I'm sure someone out there has put together a guide for magnetizing the mortarch's, probably just a quick google search away. Honestly its probably one of the easiest models to magnetize. I just picked the head and armor for the big mount I liked the most, and then magnetized the bottom of each mortarch's chair to where it is supposed to sit on the mount. 

As for which model, it's impossible to say at the moment. Both Nef and Mannfred aren't great in terms of competitive play at the moment, both being too fragile with their 4+ saves and only 11 wounds. Arkhan is probably seeing the most play, but only in OBR. There is a very good chance that both Nef and Mannfred get some sort of warscroll update when the new book hits, but there is no concrete information as to what will change so it's impossible to really suggest one over the other in terms of which will be stronger going forward. Currently, it's *probably* Nef, as her command ability is stackable, but the loss of the aetherquartz brooch made this strategy much less viable, and death doesn't have a great way to farm command points. Mannfred is in a weird switch hitter position that wants him to get into melee, but again he is pretty fragile once he is in there. You certainly can use him as a buff piece with his command ability to support larger hard hitting units, but then you might be "wasting" his melee profiles and it is probably not worth the point investment. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Btimmy

[Honk]

5 hours ago, Kaizennus said:

Is there a better way to start up the army while I wait? 

If you don’t have any old models and are dead set on getting at it... a start collecting might be a good idea. but just keep in mind, that skellis and zombies get new modelsprues and the rules are changing. 
sooo just to get the glue back flowing and throwing around some paint, go for it.

Otherwise just use your old army to get a first grip on the rules, might not be competitive, but Age of Legions of Nagash is finished anyway. Built a list with „warscroll builder“, load the App and get somebody to teach you the basics. 
With the Nurgle World Tour going, maybe look at Tabletop Simulator. No experience with that, but a friend said it‘s ok (pretty competitive)

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Honk

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 hours ago, Kaizennus said:

Hey all,

Former fantasy player (roughly 16 years ago) looking to get back into it with AoS. I’ve been thinking to roll with the upcoming Soulblight since I used to love the Vampire Counts, but never collected them personally.

I know we’re likely a ways off from the release, but how “risky” would it be to start off my model collection with the Nagash starter set and building Arkhan as one of the vampires? From what I’ve seen in this thread it looks likely that most of the models will probably transition over right?

Is there a better way to start up the army while I wait? 

The problem is, we currently really don't know what models will get an update in the new book. As far as the Skeleton Horde box: We know skeletons are in, but they are getting new sculpts, so think about whether you would regret getting the old ones. We are reasonably sure Black Knights are in the new book, because of the new mounted Wight King, but we don't know whether or not their sculpt will be updated. For what it's worth, some believe that they won't get a new sculpt because the Black Knight kit also builds Hexwraiths, which are part of Nighthaunt.

As for the mortarch kit, it's another tough one. Currently none of the mortarchs are really good, but they are all perfectly playable. Neferata and Mannfred will likely see some rules changes in the new book, but we don't know if the kit will be updated or not. I would say probably not, because it's a fairly recent, well sculpted, commonly used plastic kit. However, BROKEN REALMS: TECLIS SPOILERS:

Spoiler

Arkhan just died in the latest Broken Realms book. His body was completely destroyed. This might mean that he gets a new kit, and by extension that opens up the possibility of Neferata and Mannfred also getting new sculpts, since they share a kit.

With that in mind I would say you can get the Skeleton Horde box if you think you will still be happy with those models and extra bits even if the sculpts are updated. The absolute best way to start a Gravelords army would probably be to get the just released Warhammer Quest: Cursed City, which will give you 10 new sculpt Skeletons, 10 new sculpt Zombies, 6 bat swarms, 6 rat swarms and several heroes. It is hard to get hold of at the moment, though. It just went on preorder and is currently sold out. You could try to pick up the new Gravelords Underworlds warband that launches this weekend, too. It's basically 4 Vampire Lords.

I think it might actually be best to just wait another month. We have seen a good part of the army revealed, as well as the cover of the Battletome. Historically, that means that army is coming in at most two months or so. No guarantees, though, because the release schedule is screwed up due to COVID.

[Kaizennus]

3 hours ago, Btimmy said:

I'm sure someone out there has put together a guide for magnetizing the mortarch's, probably just a quick google search away. Honestly its probably one of the easiest models to magnetize. I just picked the head and armor for the big mount I liked the most, and then magnetized the bottom of each mortarch's chair to where it is supposed to sit on the mount. 

As for which model, it's impossible to say at the moment. Both Nef and Mannfred aren't great in terms of competitive play at the moment, both being too fragile with their 4+ saves and only 11 wounds. Arkhan is probably seeing the most play, but only in OBR. There is a very good chance that both Nef and Mannfred get some sort of warscroll update when the new book hits, but there is no concrete information as to what will change so it's impossible to really suggest one over the other in terms of which will be stronger going forward. Currently, it's *probably* Nef, as her command ability is stackable, but the loss of the aetherquartz brooch made this strategy much less viable, and death doesn't have a great way to farm command points. Mannfred is in a weird switch hitter position that wants him to get into melee, but again he is pretty fragile once he is in there. You certainly can use him as a buff piece with his command ability to support larger hard hitting units, but then you might be "wasting" his melee profiles and it is probably not worth the point investment. 

Thank you for the great insight on these guys. It does seem like they might not be the best lords to invest in considering we will also probably get some new ones that might be better suited to the new army.

1 hour ago, Honk said:

If you don’t have any old models and are dead set on getting at it... a start collecting might be a good idea. but just keep in mind, that skellis and zombies get new modelsprues and the rules are changing. 
sooo just to get the glue back flowing and throwing around some paint, go for it.

Otherwise just use your old army to get a first grip on the rules, might not be competitive, but Age of Legions of Nagash is finished anyway. Built a list with „warscroll builder“, load the App and get somebody to teach you the basics. 
With the Nurgle World Tour going, maybe look at Tabletop Simulator. No experience with that, but a friend said it‘s ok (pretty competitive)

 

I used to be a High Elf player so unfortunately I will be starting completely fresh. Thank you for the suggestions though! I’ve actually been messing around in TTS but haven’t played a real game yet there.

40 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The problem is, we currently really don't know what models will get an update in the new book. As far as the Skeleton Horde box: We know skeletons are in, but they are getting new sculpts, so think about whether you would regret getting the old ones. We are reasonably sure Black Knights are in the new book, because of the new mounted Wight King, but we don't know whether or not their sculpt will be updated. For what it's worth, some believe that they won't get a new sculpt because the Black Knight kit also builds Hexwraiths, which are part of Nighthaunt.

As for the mortarch kit, it's another tough one. Currently none of the mortarchs are really good, but they are all perfectly playable. Neferata and Mannfred will likely see some rules changes in the new book, but we don't know if the kit will be updated or not. I would say probably not, because it's a fairly recent, well sculpted, commonly used plastic kit. However, BROKEN REALMS: TECLIS SPOILERS:

  Reveal hidden contents

Arkhan just died in the latest Broken Realms book. His body was completely destroyed. This might mean that he gets a new kit, and by extension that opens up the possibility of Neferata and Mannfred also getting new sculpts, since they share a kit.

With that in mind I would say you can get the Skeleton Horde box if you think you will still be happy with those models and extra bits even if the sculpts are updated. The absolute best way to start a Gravelords army would probably be to get the just released Warhammer Quest: Cursed City, which will give you 10 new sculpt Skeletons, 10 new sculpt Zombies, 6 bat swarms, 6 rat swarms and several heroes. It is hard to get hold of at the moment, though. It just went on preorder and is currently sold out. You could try to pick up the new Gravelords Underworlds warband that launches this weekend, too. It's basically 4 Vampire Lords.

I think it might actually be best to just wait another month. We have seen a good part of the army revealed, as well as the cover of the Battletome. Historically, that means that army is coming in at most two months or so. No guarantees, though, because the release schedule is screwed up due to COVID.

Thank you for the in depth answer! Based on the last few replies I think your suggestion about the warband or the city (if I could find a copy) would be a better first step. I might also just pick up a unit of black knights or old skellies separately to practice painting. From what I’ve seen, armies tend to have a lot of skeletons so I guess having an extra set wouldn’t be too bad right? I assume you could mix them with the new units on the board right? Like, could you combine a box of old skeletons with a box of new ones in one unit? What about two separate units?

Thanks again everyone!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, Kaizennus said:

From what I’ve seen, armies tend to have a lot of skeletons so I guess having an extra set wouldn’t be too bad right? I assume you could mix them with the new units on the board right? Like, could you combine a box of old skeletons with a box of new ones in one unit? What about two separate units?

Both are possible. The new Skeletons are confirmed to be updates Skeleton Warriors. You are officially allowed to keep using old sculpts of the same unit (not that it matters unless you want to play in GW tournaments, the sculpt police is not going to come to your house and slap those models out of your hand) and new and old skeletons are on the same base size of 25mm. If you like the look of the old Skeleton Warriors, there is no problem with mixing them in with the new ones or using them in separate units to differentiate them on the tabletop.

[Sception]

8 hours ago, Kaizennus said:

Hey all,

Former fantasy player (roughly 16 years ago) looking to get back into it with AoS. I’ve been thinking to roll with the upcoming Soulblight since I used to love the Vampire Counts, but never collected them personally.

I know we’re likely a ways off from the release, but how “risky” would it be to start off my model collection with the Nagash starter set and building Arkhan as one of the vampires? From what I’ve seen in this thread it looks likely that most of the models will probably transition over right?

Is there a better way to start up the army while I wait? 

I'm sorry, but my suggestion is to wait.  There's no teling what units will be good or even still be there.  And between being in the OBR battletome and narrative events in BR:Teclis, it's pretty dubious whether Arkhan in particular will be in the new book.

[warhammernerd]

Yup, hold your horses. There will also be a glut of secondhand stuff once new shiny comes out. 

[Doko]

If you want it new as me and not second hand i would buy the start collecting skeletons fast(skeletons are allready sold in aus and start  collecting gonna be soon i guess).

Nef and manfred wont get new models 100% for sure and it is the same cost buy the mortarch alone than the start collecting. So you gonna regret in the future buying the mortarch alone because the start collecting is disscounted and spend the same money but dont get the cavalry and skeletons.

Myself i just start my souoblight army getting the malignant(for the palanquin and cavalry) and skeletons start collecting

[Sception]

Do you have a source for Nef and Manfred staying the same?  I don't at all expect them to change, but as far as I know it isn't confirmed yet.  

[BaylorCorvette]

18 minutes ago, Sception said:

Do you have a source for Nef and Manfred staying the same?  I don't at all expect them to change, but as far as I know it isn't confirmed yet.  

I think they likely stay the same (model wise). However, as someone pointed out earlier, GW could feasibly change things up since Arkhan's body was destroyed. GW could have him remade into a more OBR style and then both Mannfred & Neferata could have their own unique model / mount. I could see this actually being a thing since currently the three are so similar looking (mount wise). However the main thing that keeps me from thinking this will actually happen is that these models really aren't that old.