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2 hours ago, Aren73 said:

I just transplanted Lauka's hair onto the Vengorian Lord and you know what - I'm low-key chuffed with myself. No more bald vampire. 

Pictures!

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On 5/20/2021 at 12:02 PM, Malakithe said:

Im in the camp of 'it has a great CA but still not worth the points'. Buuuuut you know what adds up to 310 to replace it? 2 units of Vargheists! Still vampires and they have a built in deep strike that can compliment the Blood Knights

Thats what people understimate imo. We dont have to compare BK vs Vargheist.  They are perfect together. I think my first list i wanna test in tts is manfred with Vargheist to deep strike and BK !

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I haven't gotten my order yet, and would be missing 20 Dire Wolves even if I had, but I went ahead and proxied up a 1000 pt list against my buddy's Nighthaunt and had a blast. Some thoughts from the game, in no particular order:

--Neferata is an amazing all rounder and can be surprisingly tanky. She spent something like 8 or 9 turns in combat and ended the game on full health thanks to healing.

--Dire Wolves were pretty much exactly what I expected and wanted. Their offensive output is minimal, but they are fast bodies that are durable relative to a very reasonable cost.

--Blood Knights are nice, but I think they probably need the FAQ/3E rules change to allow retreat-charging to be truly great. Or it could have been that I was using them badly, because I did definitely make some errors there.

-Skeletons were hard to judge in terms of efficiency, because I made a really dumb charge with them after spawning them in from a gravesite and got them wrecked for very little gain--that was all on me, not on the warscroll.

--Endless Legions is a lot of fun. I'm sure that's no surprise for you veteran LoN players, but popping up a unit in a surprise location is hilarious. I played with the least powerful interpretation of all rules with ambiguities, or I would have had several more units than I could have if it turns out you can reinforce from the same dead unit multiple times. And the threat of it really just kept things interesting.

--Gravesite placement is going to be a huge thing, but the auras are pretty generous, honestly. With AoS3 likely moving to a smaller board like 40k did in 9th, I only anticipate them getting better in that regard.

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3 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Thats what people understimate imo. We dont have to compare BK vs Vargheist.  They are perfect together. I think my first list i wanna test in tts is manfred with Vargheist to deep strike and BK !

I was thinking something similar as well

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So, Azyr updated and it seems that Grave Guard has -2 Rend and Dmg 1 on their Great Wight Weapons.

What do you think? Having an opciont for -2 rend and mortal wounds in the same unit  seems awesome. We lose a bit of dmg but we have a better source of anti-armor attacks.

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29 minutes ago, Beliman said:

So, Azyr updated and it seems that Grave Guard has -2 Rend and Dmg 1 on their Great Wight Weapons.

What do you think? Having an opciont for -2 rend and mortal wounds in the same unit  seems awesome. We lose a bit of dmg but we have a better source of anti-armor attacks.

Rend -2 is strictly worse than damage 2, so I hope that's a typo.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Beliman said:

So, Azyr updated and it seems that Grave Guard has -2 Rend and Dmg 1 on their Great Wight Weapons.

What do you think? Having an opciont for -2 rend and mortal wounds in the same unit  seems awesome. We lose a bit of dmg but we have a better source of anti-armor attacks.

lets hope it is a typo, damage 2 is way better

Edited by Raptor_Jesues
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8 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Rend -2 is strictly worse than damage 2, so I hope that's a typo.

But it could be better for other units, maybe?
I mean, I've already saw 6 gravelord games and all of them had a blob of Grave Guard to do dmg and it didn't feel right for other bloodsucker units (mainly vargheist and blood knights).

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24 minutes ago, Beliman said:

But it could be better for other units, maybe?
I mean, I've already saw 6 gravelord games and all of them had a blob of Grave Guard to do dmg and it didn't feel right for other bloodsucker units (mainly vargheist and blood knights).

I don't really think the answer here is to make Grave Guard worse, though. Are Gravelords supposed to be an army without an infantry hammer? We are already low on damage as things stand.

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1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I don't really think the answer here is to make Grave Guard worse, though. Are Gravelords supposed to be an army without an infantry hammer? We are already low on damage as things stand.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want GraveGuard to just be "worst", I want them to be on par with other Gravelords units. Last thing that I want for this battletome is becoming an Idoneth 2.0 book and see that 3.0 just turns to be GG spam!

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A viable rend -2 option in the book would be nice (was hoping that'd be blood knights) and it can't be a named character.

Slightly worried about a high armour meta (supposedly) when we have so little good rend. 

 

9 hours ago, DJMoose said:

Pictures!

Well alright then, just this once ;)

 

_20210521_203838.JPG

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2 hours ago, Beliman said:

So, Azyr updated and it seems that Grave Guard has -2 Rend and Dmg 1 on their Great Wight Weapons.

What do you think? Having an opciont for -2 rend and mortal wounds in the same unit  seems awesome. We lose a bit of dmg but we have a better source of anti-armor attacks.

Battletomes and FAQ/erratas are source of rules, that's what I think. Azyr quite often get's things wrong

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Aren73 said:

A viable rend -2 option in the book would be nice (was hoping that'd be blood knights) and it can't be a named character.

Slightly worried about a high armour meta (supposedly) when we have so little good rend. 

 

Well alright then, just this once ;)

 

 

A viable rend -2 damage 1 intead of rend -1 damage 2 on the book is too worst.

  Basis: Multiplier: Multiplier:
Armour (+) rend -1 D 1 rend -2 D1 rend -1 D2
2 x1 x1.5 x2
3 x1 x1.33 x2
4 x1 x1.25 x2
5 x1 x1.20 x2
6 x1 x1 x2
- x1 x1 x2
Edited by Sartxac
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16 minutes ago, Sartxac said:

A viable rend -2 damage 1 intead of rend -1 damage 2 on the book is too worst.

  Basis: Multiplier: Multiplier:
Armour (+) rend -1 D 1 rend -2 D1 rend -1 D2
2 x1 x1.5 x2
3 x1 x1.33 x2
4 x1 x1.25 x2
5 x1 x1.20 x2
6 x1 x1 x2
- x1 x1 x2

Perhaps, but half our army is rend -1 dmg 2, did we really need yet another unit that has the same profile? 

I agree that rend -1 dmg 2 is better than rend -2 dmg 1. But at least it's some variety...

There are already plenty of units in this book vying for the same target niche and very few units that can deal with other target niches. 

 

Anyway, most likely a typo, it's probably going to be -1/2

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The Azyr's Grave Guard only becomes worse if we compare them with their Batteltome warscroll. But if I compare Glave Guard vs other hammer units (Vargheist and Blood Knights), I think they are fine. Better vs 2+saves than Blood Knights, they scale better (just by being deathrattle, lot's of support from other models and a lot of synergies with summoneable), small base and not as expensive as the other two.


GGvsBKvsVar.jpg.e155e3962196783cec98cf98fbe041ff.jpg

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Just now, Beliman said:

The Azyr's Grave Guard only becomes worse if we compare them with their Batteltome warscroll. But if I compare Glave Guard vs other hammer units (Vargheist and Blood Knights), I think they are fine. Better vs 2+saves than Blood Knights, they scale better (just by being deathrattle, lot's of support from other models and a lot of synergies with summoneable), small base and not as expensive as the other two.


GGvsBKvsVar.jpg.e155e3962196783cec98cf98fbe041ff.jpg

It would make a lot of sense for them to be our source of high rend. It would really cement their place in our book and make them unique. 

But - this is most likely a typo. Let's not get our hopes up, if this was any other army we'd probably say to go by the book. 

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@Aren73 Completely agree. Just a typo, I just hope that 2+/3+ saves don't become the norm in 3.0 (with charge reactions and mystic shield). That would push Blood Knights and Vargheist in to "irrelevant spot" and force Gravelords to spam more Grave Guard instead.

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Just now, Beliman said:

@Aren73 Completely agree. Just a typo, I just hope that 2+/3+ saves don't become the norm in 3.0 (with charge reactions and mystic shield). That would push Blood Knights and Vargheist in to "irrelevant spot" and force Gravelords to spam more Grave Guard instead.

Not Blood Knights. Blood Knights would be one of those obnoxious units with the 2+ rerollable save ;)

If you can't beat them, join them...

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1 hour ago, Zeblasky said:

Skeletons also have a 6+ (instead of promised 5) save and a funny typo on Azur. Still, for a unit that wants to pretty much go last in combat phase, it's not too bad.

Yeah noticed that too, 6+ save on skeletons...

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Posted (edited)

Azyr is known for making mistakes, I wouldnt read into it. The book and warscrolls has the correct values, which is dmg 2 and 5+ save.

Edited by umpac
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Got mine at 10am this morning. I had same issue most methods just took me to the current range (still do), very odd, but if you click the generic 'find out what's new preorder now' link they're there.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=2512876101+3206404541&Nr=AND(sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw)&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[product.startDate+<%3D+1621694700000+and+product.endDate+>%3D+1621694700000]&view=all

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