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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Yeah I'm a little excited for it. Our big competitive tournament group is doing a large scale narrative battle in July where each person gets like 3-4k points and it is going to be a massive (multiple tables/games at once) war. Anvil of Apotheosis characters ARE encouraged and "competitive" lists will be rejected. The point is for all of us competitive people to bring our fluffy BS lists, lol. Right now the plan is all Grand Alliances vs. Chaos.

Pretty sure he dies. Because he has a wounds characteristic of 4 and has taken 3 wounds.  Then after the "buff" wears off he has a wounds characteristic of 3 and has taken 3 wounds, thus one dead Blood Knight.

Interesting, is there an official way to count wounds in AoS?

I’d read it as model has 4 wounds, takes 3, has 1 wound remaining. 
 

i.e counting down, and not up (how many wounds have been taken) 

 

I guess if it’s the latter, what would take precedence? D3 heal (provided they kill) or death... lol

Edited by BrotherTalarian
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5 minutes ago, BrotherTalarian said:

Interesting, is there an official way to count wounds in AoS?

I’d read it as model has 4 wounds, takes 3, has 1 wound remaining. 
 

i.e counting down, and not up (how many wounds have been taken) 

Actually, you might be correct as I re-read the core rules. It says "Add up the damage that was inflicted. The player commanding the target unit must then allocate a number of wounds to the target unit equal to the damage that was inflicted." It is kind of a grey area I think (unless there is an FAQ out there, not sure). You can make the argument that you allocated 3 wounds to that model, but sine it currently has 4 then it stays up with 1 wound and at the end of the phase the wounds characteristic drops back to 3 but with the model having 1 wound allocated to it.

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Posted (edited)

They've already taken the damage, they would stay on 1 wound. Just because their characteristic returns to 3 doesn't mean they take an extra damage from nothing.

They get attacked, you allocate the damage and one is left on 1 wound, then at the end of the turn their characteristic returns to 3... so? They already took the damage, where does the extra 1 damage come from to kill him off?

Edit: will probably get FAQ to clear it up but seems fairly obvious to me, you don't keep track of how many wounds you've inflicted in that way, like imagine an ability where you change a models wound characteristic to 1... say my vampire lord got hit with 1 mortal wound, then next turn they cast a theoretical spell that changed his wound characteristic to 1, he wouldn't just die because he took damage in the past. He'd already allocated that damage, there is no carryover in that respect.

Edited by Ghoooouls
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40 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

They've already taken the damage, they would stay on 1 wound. Just because their characteristic returns to 3 doesn't mean they take an extra damage from nothing.

They get attacked, you allocate the damage and one is left on 1 wound, then at the end of the turn their characteristic returns to 3... so? They already took the damage, where does the extra 1 damage come from to kill him off?

Edit: will probably get FAQ to clear it up but seems fairly obvious to me, you don't keep track of how many wounds you've inflicted in that way, like imagine an ability where you change a models wound characteristic to 1... say my vampire lord got hit with 1 mortal wound, then next turn they cast a theoretical spell that changed his wound characteristic to 1, he wouldn't just die because he took damage in the past. He'd already allocated that damage, there is no carryover in that respect.

Don't you count wounds taken in AoS and not wounds remaining? 

So you have some blood knights, who have a characteristic of 4 wounds, one of them has taken 3 wounds. 

Then they revert to characteristic of 3 wounds. 

Now you have some blood knights, who have a characteristic of 3 wounds, one of them has taken 3 wounds. 

The one that has taken 3 wounds has no wounds left and dies. 

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The glottkin has a command ability that also increases the wounds characteristic of a unit and it specifically clarifies that if a model has wounds allocated to it, it can die once it loses the extra wounds. So I would say that if you have taken 3 wounds and the buff goes away the model dies. Wounds are tracked as wounds allocated which is why monster charts count wounds allocated not number of wounds remaining.  

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Never been a death guy, but I'm about to jump in with both feet (or claws?).

Would the following be reasonable?

Kastelai:

Mannfred

Prince Vhordrai

Vengorian Lord (rousing commander!)

3x5 Blood Knights

1x10 Dire Wolves

1x3 Vargheists

Comes in a little shy of 2000.

....but I'd be buying everything tomorrow. gulp.

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3 minutes ago, idn0971 said:

The glottkin has a command ability that also increases the wounds characteristic of a unit and it specifically clarifies that if a model has wounds allocated to it, it can die once it loses the extra wounds. So I would say that if you have taken 3 wounds and the buff goes away the model dies. Wounds are tracked as wounds allocated which is why monster charts count wounds allocated not number of wounds remaining.  

In addition, the core rules state that if the number of wounds allocated to a model equals it's wounds characteristic than the model is slain. Since the number of wounds would be 3 and the wounds characteristic would now also be 3 it would be slain.

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3 minutes ago, annarborhawk said:

Never been a death guy, but I'm about to jump in with both feet (or claws?).

Would the following be reasonable?

Kastelai:

Mannfred

Prince Vhordrai

Vengorian Lord (rousing commander!)

3x5 Blood Knights

1x10 Dire Wolves

1x3 Vargheists

Comes in a little shy of 2000.

....but I'd be buying everything tomorrow. gulp.

Looks very fun to play, though I'm not convinced our elite army will be topping tourneys if that's your thing. That said, I'm likely going to be playing a very similar list narratively. Welcome friend!

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6 minutes ago, idn0971 said:

In addition, the core rules state that if the number of wounds allocated to a model equals it's wounds characteristic than the model is slain. Since the number of wounds would be 3 and the wounds characteristic would now also be 3 it would be slain.

also with big monsters (zombie dragon) that change their stats, the output is calculated with wounds suffered, not wounds remaining.

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16 minutes ago, annarborhawk said:

Never been a death guy, but I'm about to jump in with both feet (or claws?).

Would the following be reasonable?

Kastelai:

Mannfred

Prince Vhordrai

Vengorian Lord (rousing commander!)

3x5 Blood Knights

1x10 Dire Wolves

1x3 Vargheists

Comes in a little shy of 2000.

....but I'd be buying everything tomorrow. gulp.

I’m thinking of a near identical list! :D 

Should be fun.

 

On the wound discussion, then.

What takes precedence? Healing D3 wounds, or death of the model? How is that determined? 
 

If it’s death to the model, rousing commander becomes less attractive of an option, though still good.

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On 3/22/2021 at 6:07 PM, Raptor_Jesues said:

i really hope so. It seems like we will get some kind of glaive infantry but it is unclear if they are grave guards or vampires

hlg18o7zjni61.png

given the colour i would say grave guard

Given the board behind is Ymetrica and OBR were invading that region and that the new OBR warband has a glaive dude I think the unit in the background is an OBR unit. 

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Posted (edited)

I hate goonhammer reviews.

They are criers with the review of their armys and then every other tome is  all great and powerfull

And this tome is other example.

They say that deatless sumon that have been nerfed into the uselesness have been improved and is great now,also gravesites also nerfed now are better.

Oh and vampire lore of spells that every spell have been nerfed......theh think got a nice overhaul and they are better now!.

It is pretty stupid that review,all is a rainbow an all is great, as if something before was a 10 and now is a 2? For them now it is great and better!

Edited by Doko
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5 minutes ago, Doko said:

I hate goonhammer reviews.

They are criers with the review of their armys and then every other tome is  all great and powerfull

I have no idea what you mean by this. When did this happen?

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Did they not get the rules for Neferata either?  I don't see her in there anywhere.  Kind of sad that Vyrkos sounds like a ton more one-use items.

It seems odd to me, they mention how much certain rules improve, but make no effort to mention the limitations on some of the rules they are lauding.  Not talking about how Invigorating Aura doesn't stack, for instance (and is really bad in an army of lvl 1 wizards), or that they limited the use of Deathly Invocation (previously IoN) to ONCE per turn, and made the range smaller on TOP of making it wholly within the smaller range.  Or talking about how Endless Legions.  They say it is awesome to not need your general, because now you can just summon up your unit anywhere.

Sure... I am so excited to MAYBE summon 15 skeletons that my opponent already obliterated once, but now out of position, and at the END of my turn.

What a joke review.

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I’m putting together a list, of which I like the theme and it seems fairly competitive. What are your thoughts on the below? The one thing I’m currently debating is the Grave Guard and the Coven Throne. Strong units, they will just look outdated aesthetically. What other “hammer” units would you use instead of the 20 Grave Guard? Is 5 Bloodknights enough? 
 

Vyrkos Dynasty

Coven Throne. General. Pack Alpha. 

Belladamma Volga 200

Radukar the Beast 315

Vampire Lord 140

Necromancer 125

40 Deadwalker Zombies 230

20 Grave Guard 280

10 Dire Wolves 135

10 Dire Wolves 135

Corpse Cart. Unholy Lodestone 80

Extra CP 50

2000pts

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6 hours ago, annarborhawk said:

Never been a death guy, but I'm about to jump in with both feet (or claws?).

Would the following be reasonable?

Kastelai:

Mannfred

Prince Vhordrai

Vengorian Lord (rousing commander!)

3x5 Blood Knights

1x10 Dire Wolves

1x3 Vargheists

Comes in a little shy of 2000.

....but I'd be buying everything tomorrow. gulp.

I`m trying the exact same list today
Think could be a good list

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, idn0971 said:

In addition, the core rules state that if the number of wounds allocated to a model equals it's wounds characteristic than the model is slain. Since the number of wounds would be 3 and the wounds characteristic would now also be 3 it would be slain.

Deleted -  I'm wrong lol

Edited by Ghoooouls
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, BrotherTalarian said:

I’m thinking of a near identical list! :D 

Should be fun.

 

On the wound discussion, then.

What takes precedence? Healing D3 wounds, or death of the model? How is that determined? 
 

If it’s death to the model, rousing commander becomes less attractive of an option, though still good.

You would heal first as its at the end of combat, whereas the rousing commander is until the end of the turn? I haven't checked it but assume it is.

Just checked, they are both end of phase abilities lol... I think you choose which order they activate?

Edited by Ghoooouls
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Think of wounds as tokens you add to the model.

Healing removes those tokens.

So a Blood Knight thats up to 4w via Rousing Commander suffers 3w, but heals 1w. He would subsequently have 2w after the phase and would die if he suffered 1w more thereafter. 

 

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Posted (edited)

So a blood knight with rousing commander activated can actually never return to 3 wounds then? You effectively give them 4 wounds for a turn and then one of them is stuck at 2 wounds for the whole battle?

I use rousing commander, he takes 3 wounds, then heals 2 up to full health at 3 wounds... but he's taken 3 damage total so he actually still has 1 damage allocated to him and effectively on 2 wounds, because 2 more wounds allocated equals his wounds characteristic and he's slain? Or am I thinking about it wrong and even though he caps at 3 wounds, he can still remove 3 wounds allocated if he rolled a 3?

I'd like to hope this is with a change to damage allocation in 3.0 but I highly doubt it, I think it's just a blatent overlook or is intended.

I think you would heal first at least, as you choose which order to do your  'start' and 'end' of phase stuff, correct?

Edited by Ghoooouls
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