Aren73 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Dracan said: Sad Panda for being right 😢 Damn that does sound quite accurate... 3 minutes ago, GutrotSpume said: Think there is some filth to be had with this book. Who else is thinking of using the new skellies as graveguard 😂 don’t see it being an issue if you don’t include normal skellies. 2 blobs of 30 with a coven throne popping their CA on both of them and they are 2’s and 2’s with a 3+ That's another issue. I'd much rather trade broken filth for balanced and fun/creative rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutrotSpume Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Aren73 said: Damn that does sound quite accurate... That's another issue. I'd much rather trade broken filth for balanced and fun/creative rules. I completely agree with you. I would rather have a book with better internal balance. There’s way too much in this book you would never take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Aren73 said: I too love the new improved Black Knights! They're so much stronger! They even left their shields at home so they wouldn't be burdened as much! Same for the fell bats, they're just so badass! I can't wait to see them try to make it through at least one round of combat to try and use their retreat and charge rule! 1) They ain’t supposed to be heavy hitters, and they are resurrect-able. Also, don’t need to be babysat to get deathless minions. Did they drop down a bit in output, yes, on pure warscroll. But in conjunction with other rules, probably on par. 2) Since when exactly was a 75pt throwaway objective capturing distraction unit supposed to be badass? As for combat output, they are pants. But again, they are bats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Did we lose bat swarms? That IS rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy1486 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I'm currently feeling a list with: Vhohdrai Coven throne Blood knights Varghiests Vengorian Terrorgiests Fast, hard hitting, lots of great models. I dunno probably suck but think it would look great. Vhodrai with a coven throne or 10 blood knights with a coven throne could be epic. From what i can tell, with the right buffs, you can heal up vhodrai quite a bit as well (d6 here and there, d3 if you take battalion). Seems fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 46 minutes ago, sandlemad said: @warhammernerd You're doing that hyper-aggressive mandatory positivity thing again. Saying 'all feelings are valid' and then immediately dumping hard over people who are disappointed isn't an excuse. It's quite offputting. Exactamundo. It’s about as off putting as people dumping all over everything claiming it’s hot garbage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, warhammernerd said: Since when exactly was a 75pt throwaway objective capturing distraction unit supposed to be badass? I think it was about their new looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 And for the record, the weight of opinion against people who think things are good far far outweighs the opposite. If people say it’s good, people will say no it’s bad. It’s the exact same both ways. X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Boar said: I think it was about their new looks. The old look was hardly in keeping with their rules either? They are 75 points. Move 14”. What’s not too like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Ive always had an issue with the Coven Throne. I feel like it has an identity crisis and that hasnt changed. Degrading profile, meh to bad damage, huge points, still a 4+ save. The spell is cool but only useful on itself which needs to be used in order to keep it alive to use the CA. The CA is amazing as far as CA's go but thats a huge investment for a good CA on a lackluster unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, warhammernerd said: claiming Its not claiming when we all have seen the leaked stuff and can compare them side by side. Its literal fact as this point. So when the majority are 'claiming' that the book is mid-tier meh at best and most stuff was nerfed thats not guessing, opinion, or conjecture. Thats straight up fact and we have a reason to be upset after all this hype up from GW 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Syf Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I might be having selective vision again but in the leaks the warcrolls for skegs and Nagash don't feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcrater Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 So I come here to ask to the experts because I want a zombie army since forever. Seeing all the leaks, how viable do you think a full deadwalker army is? I mean, corpse carts and zombies have decent warscrolls, but I don't see a super lot of rule support for them appart from the battalion. Also, I fear that having only three deadwalker units, it could turn to a pretty boring-looking army. Damn, if only Gorslav could be taken alone... (also is not exactly exciting the idea to paint 100+ zombie bois only for the aesthetics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 IMO Dire Wolf spam along with the Vyrkos dynasty will be really good. They‘re also reliable casters and you can put any Mortarch in there. Also interesting: If you pick Nagash your army cannot include any Mercenaries. this is either a hint at 3.0 or proof that these „new“ rules are old as hell 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, drcrater said: So I come here to ask to the experts because I want a zombie army since forever. Seeing all the leaks, how viable do you think a full deadwalker army is? I mean, corpse carts and zombies have decent warscrolls, but I don't see a super lot of rule support for them appart from the battalion. Also, I fear that having only three deadwalker units, it could turn to a pretty boring-looking army. Damn, if only Gorslav could be taken alone... (also is not exactly exciting the idea to paint 100+ zombie bois only for the aesthetics) Zombies are very Good.(6“ pile in all the time) Especially combined with corpse carts, necromancers etc. There are even some synergies granting them +1 attack iirc. Edited May 13, 2021 by JackStreicher 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixieproxy Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Wish we could see the skeleton warscroll now, Zombies seem deece, but what about the skellies now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, warhammernerd said: The old look was hardly in keeping with their rules either? They are 75 points. Move 14”. What’s not too like? I mean new look being more badass, not being reflected in abilities. And partly I assume about new high monetary cost for them. Point cost/damage, utility is different thing altogether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Malakithe said: Its not claiming when we all have seen the leaked stuff and can compare them side by side. Its literal fact as this point. So when the majority are 'claiming' that the book is mid-tier meh at best and most stuff was nerfed thats not guessing, opinion, or conjecture. Thats straight up fact and we have a reason to be upset after all this hype up from GW Again, totally refute that. No one has played with it. No one has played AoS 3.0. And until there is actual results and data, everything anyone says is simple conjecture and opinion. SOME old warscrolls have been adjusted down, others adjusted up. SOME old points have been adjusted down, others adjusted up. All battalions have been improved, some more than others. All spells have been adjusted, most of them positively. All sub-factions have been improved. A bunch of completely new warscrolls have been written, which on the surface all seem playable. Having read all the warscrolls, played competitively for a while myself and someone who been playing hammer for 30+ years I can safely say they have done a really good job of delineating clear roles for everything. This has, in some cases meant toning down some units so their aren’t multiple units competing for the same role. Am I sad at loss of bat swarms, sure. Am I sad about fellbats getting a new model, being included in a useful batallion, being buffable in multiple different ways, whilst having a points drop and a loss of an old rule which I never once used, no. It goes on. It’s opinions. And opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one and they all stink. Mine included. Just the negativity with ANY and ALL releases always outweighs the positivity, and I’m jamming a branch in the spokes of that wheel. If you don’t like my opinion, cool beans. It’s toys. Edited May 13, 2021 by warhammernerd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I may be tunnel visioned with all the crying going off around me but Kastelai are damn amazing and stronk. Dunno what all you paesants are complaning about. Imma do 2x vengorian lords lots of bloodknights coven throne (THAT CA, just damn) vargheists (got buffed yay ) vhordrai being even more chad i am not sure about the battalion, healing is good but i would have to bring 2 foot lords, meh 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 IMHO I think that the book is better than you are claiming. It reminds me a lot of the last DoK book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Boar said: I mean new look being more badass, not being reflected in abilities. And partly I assume about new high monetary cost for them. Point cost/damage, utility is different thing altogether Your cross because a new model, that you want, which is stunning and a vast improvement over the old junk, isn’t as badass as you’d like? Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Raptor_Jesues said: I may be tunnel visioned with all the crying going off around me but Kastelai are damn amazing and stronk. Dunno what all you paesants are complaning about. Imma do 2x vengorian lords lots of bloodknights coven throne (THAT CA, just damn) vargheists (got buffed yay ) vhordrai being even more chad i am not sure about the battalion, healing is good but i would have to bring 2 foot lords, meh So a 5k point list then? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aren73 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, warhammernerd said: 1) They ain’t supposed to be heavy hitters, and they are resurrect-able. Also, don’t need to be babysat to get deathless minions. Did they drop down a bit in output, yes, on pure warscroll. But in conjunction with other rules, probably on par. 2) Since when exactly was a 75pt throwaway objective capturing distraction unit supposed to be badass? As for combat output, they are pants. But again, they are bats. 1) They were always medium hitters, Grave Guard on horses (that's literally their lore). Oh sure, now they get deathless minions from gravesites too however they need to be babysat to be in any way useful - they need those command abilities and spells etc. Oh and they lost their shields for some unknown reason, explain that if you can. They are just straight up worse. They were nerfed and didn't need to be. 2) I agree, you're right on that front. Fell Bats aren't damage dealers, I was just hoping they'd become fun. Instead their nice models only exist now to grab objectives...it's a bit sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Boar said: I mean new look being more badass, not being reflected in abilities. And partly I assume about new high monetary cost for them. Point cost/damage, utility is different thing altogether Yup. Why would I pay 40€ for a disposable objective grabber? They‘re worth 20€ max the way they are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Malakithe said: So a 5k point list then? lol I was just listing the models i want, the salt is blinding you Edited May 13, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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